Your interpretation of Tambourine Man?
Pezfleck
Mark Moore wrote:
>But I still don't see how anyone can possibly argue with Roger >McGuinn.
>I mean, he defined Mr. Tambourine Man. And after all, he was eight >miles
>high himself, at least spiritually. He said in this very newsgroup, >"I
was
>singing it to God when we did it in the Byrds."
>I know Dylan admirers do not particularly respect authority, but I >think
>the opinion of Roger McGuinn on this matter is highly >authoritative.
No offense to Mr. McGuinn but just because he sang "Mr. Tambourine Man"
that doesn't make him an authority on it's composition. His comment about
what he was thinking about when he sang it has nothing to do with what
Dylan was doing when he wrote it.
"head in a guillotine"
> "what he was thinking about, when he sang it, has nothing to do with what Dylan was doing when he wrote it"
This could be a hell of a song line! Maybe call the
song "Thinkin' 'n' Doin'"
TOM
Mark Moore
On 10 Feb 1997, Pezfleck wrote:
> No offense to Mr. McGuinn but just because he sang "Mr. Tambourine Man"
> that doesn't make him an authority on it's composition. His comment about
> what he was thinking about when he sang it has nothing to do with what
> Dylan was doing when he wrote it.
I didn't say it makes him an authority on its composition. The author is
the only authority on that. I was saying that, in light of his background
and history with the song, his interpretation is extremely weighty and
highly important and should be taken very seriously. Other interpretations
are always possible. As Roger McGuinn is also a great songwriter and a
friend of Bob Dylan's for many years, he has insights that few have and
his opinions outweigh the often ludicrous, often unimaginative ideas that
all the self-satisfied, egocentric, self-appointed experts out there
continue to spew forth.
M.M.
johnhenry
I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
"head in a guillotine"
johnhenry wrote:
>
> I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
You are sooooo right. I get a kick out of people who
have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
concert know what he thinks, what his lyrics mean,
why he does what he does, why he goes where he goes,
etc. To speculate for entertainment purposes is one
thing, but to do what some 'contributors' to this
newsgroup is almost as bad as what NBC, CBS, ABC,
CNN and FOX do the national (and local) news!!
T
nate
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970210...@godzilla2.acpub.duke.edu>,
mmo...@acpub.duke.edu says...
>his opinions outweigh the often ludicrous, often unimaginative ideas that
>all the self-satisfied, egocentric, self-appointed experts out there
>continue to spew forth.
>M.M.
that thing you have in your hands, Mark, is a multi-faceted veneer....
- nate
"head in a guillotine"
Stephen Scobie/Maureen Scobie wrote:
>
> In article <330020...@worldnet.att.net>, fo...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > I get a kick out of people who
> > have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
> > concert know what he thinks, what his lyrics mean,
> > why he does what he does, why he goes where he goes,
> > etc. To speculate for entertainment purposes is one
> > thing, but to do what some 'contributors' to this
> > newsgroup is almost as bad as what NBC, CBS, ABC,
> > CNN and FOX do the national (and local) news!!
> >
> > T
>
> claiming to know "what his lyrics mean." I have no access to what Dylan
> thinks; I have full access to his lyrics. Once he has published the
> words, they are out there, and no one can claim any special rights of
> interpretation solely on the basis of who they are. If one interpretation
> is more convincing than another, that's because of their intrinsic merits
> as interpretations, not because of who the interpreters are. The fact
> that I have written a book on Dylan does not, in itself, mean that my
> interpretations are superior to those of someone who heard his first Dylan
> song last week. And Dylan himself has no special priority: once he's
> published the work, he's just another reader. (And not always a very good
> one: I mean, would you trust the opinions of someone who thought that
> "Blind Willie McTell" wasn't worth releasing?)
>
> Stephen
>
> --
> Stephen Scobie Maureen Scobie
I don't know, next time I talk to Bob I'll ask him.
T
trolls-R-us
<this message posted+email>
In article
<sscobie1-110...@p18-135.dialup.uvic.
ca>,
ssco...@sol.uvic.ca (Stephen Scobie/Maureen
Scobie) wrote:
>I mean, would you trust the opinions of
>someone who thought that "Blind Willie McTell"
>wasn't worth releasing?)
maybe he thought is was splashier
to save it for compilations like
_biograph_, or _genuine bootleg v.1_
if you look at all the albums where good
songs were left out, e.g., _up to me_,
_down in the flood_, _paint my
masterpiece_, _watching the river flow_
only to be included on compilations later,
they fall into the category of interesting
but not appropriate to the theme of
the current album
personally i think _political world_
was written by a seventh grader and
how mysterious _series of dreams_ would've
been as an _oh mercy opener -- or at
least _dignity_ as an upbeat shuffle-thing
since he liked to start albums with
noisier songs until _world gone wrong_
_tonight i'll be stayin here,
would've made a classy opener for the
legit _unplugged; or _sweet marie really
rocks; and why _back pages_ was left off
in favor of too many pete seeger-era
impersonal social ballads like _times
changin and _john brown (a boring song
melodically and a cardboard rip-off of _all
quiet on the western front which is rather
precious to begin with)
anyway, _blind willie just doesn't fit
on _oh mercy or _empire -- actually, it
would fit perfectly on _groove but those
albums have no biographical songs
(too many of which are one of _desire_'s
thematic limitations)
similarly, you go to a show and think,
"how the hell can he even stand to play some
of these songs over and over and over without
any covers let alone an original or
improvisational thing or even an instrumental
jam (except _silvio_ (_aatw doesn't qualify))"
but to him it's just picking rabbits
from a hat and discarding them to mate on
their own
i have a recurrent dream of meeting dylan
before a show and asking him to lead off
with _stuck inside of mobile acoustic and
he always grins and nothing happens
it would seem that a guy with such imagination
could at least mix up the order of the "dirty
dozen" which now seem to be taking up most
of every show but his live m.o. seems to be
to find a pattern slowly and change it more
slowly
Roger McGuinn
johnhenry wrote:
>
> I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
Not really!
All the best ..... Roger
Roger McGuinn
"head in a guillotine" wrote:
>
> johnhenry wrote:
> >
> > I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> > twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
>
> have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
> concert know what he thinks, what his lyrics mean,
> why he does what he does, why he goes where he goes,
> etc. To speculate for entertainment purposes is one
> thing, but to do what some 'contributors' to this
> newsgroup is almost as bad as what NBC, CBS, ABC,
> CNN and FOX do the national (and local) news!!
>
> T
I've been a lot closer than 20 yards from Dylan for a long time!
Stephen Scobie/Maureen Scobie
> I get a kick out of people who
> have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
> concert know what he thinks, what his lyrics mean,
> why he does what he does, why he goes where he goes,
> etc. To speculate for entertainment purposes is one
> thing, but to do what some 'contributors' to this
> newsgroup is almost as bad as what NBC, CBS, ABC,
> CNN and FOX do the national (and local) news!!
>
> T
But there is a difference between claiming to know "what he thinks" and
claiming to know "what his lyrics mean." I have no access to what Dylan
thinks; I have full access to his lyrics. Once he has published the
words, they are out there, and no one can claim any special rights of
interpretation solely on the basis of who they are. If one interpretation
is more convincing than another, that's because of their intrinsic merits
as interpretations, not because of who the interpreters are. The fact
that I have written a book on Dylan does not, in itself, mean that my
interpretations are superior to those of someone who heard his first Dylan
song last week. And Dylan himself has no special priority: once he's
published the work, he's just another reader. (And not always a very good
one: I mean, would you trust the opinions of someone who thought that
"Blind Willie McTell" wasn't worth releasing?)
Stephen
John Doe
Roger McGuinn wrote:
>
> johnhenry wrote:
> >
> > I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> > twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
>
all the best........T
John Doe
Roger McGuinn wrote:
>
> "head in a guillotine" wrote:
> >
> > johnhenry wrote:
> > >
> > > I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> > > twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
> >
> > have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
> > concert know what he thinks, what his lyrics mean,
> > why he does what he does, why he goes where he goes,
> > etc. To speculate for entertainment purposes is one
> > thing, but to do what some 'contributors' to this
> > newsgroup is almost as bad as what NBC, CBS, ABC,
> > CNN and FOX do the national (and local) news!!
> >
> > T
>
>
T
johnhenry
Roger McGuinn <mcg...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>johnhenry wrote:
>>
>> I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
>> twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
>Not really!
>
>All the best ..... Roger
Good news! Never stops me either, (though I occasionally do think twice.) -jh
Roger McGuinn
John Doe wrote:
>
> Roger McGuinn wrote:
> >
> > "head in a guillotine" wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I imagine Roger McGuinn, observing this interminable discussion, will think
> > > > twice about offering his candid thoughts in this newsgroup in the future. -jh
> > >
> > > have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
> > I've been a lot closer than 20 yards from Dylan for a long time!
> Roger- I wasn't refering to you
>
> T
Ok sorry T. It just looked that way.
--
Joe Cliburn
Stephen Scobie/Maureen Scobie wrote:
>
> In article <330020...@worldnet.att.net>, fo...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> > have never been within 20 yards of Dylan at a
<ker-snip!>
> But there is a difference between claiming to know "what he thinks" and
> claiming to know "what his lyrics mean." I have no access to what Dylan
<ker-snap!>
Stephen's right. Lyric analysis is everybody's game. What was Dylan
thinking when he wrote "Mr Tambourine Man"? God knows. That's what so
much fun about it all!
I'm sure anyone who's stumbled around the French Quarter during Mardis
Gras has been in the same frame of mind, though. Stephen, you might
check with *your* Maureen about that...
And, yes, Roger has been a "fuzz" closer to Mr Dylan that anyone else in
this newsgroup, methinx. (Hope to hear you on the eastern shore of
Mobile Bay soon, Roger! :-)
--
Joe Cliburn
jcli...@flintcreek.win.net
http://www.win.net/~flintcreek/
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray." -
Dylan
Walflwers
Let me start off by saying this is completely a guess. I think that
is the prudent course in trying to figure out what Bob meant by any song
let alone Tambourine Man.
To me, Mr. Tambourine Man represents an escape from whatever might
be troubling Dylan. All of us have one thing that allows us to
temporarily forget all the troubles we endure on a day to day basis. The
Tambourine Man, similar to what the Nightengale does for Keats, provides
Dylan with comfort and an escape in a time of need
The Tambourine Man is a metaphor for whatever eases Dylan's pain. ,
whether that be drugs, God, etc etc etc. As a fan of the song, the song
itself acts as my own personal temporary escape.
My pain is eased by listening to the song Mr. Tambourine Man
Mark Moore
In addition to Roger McGuinn's insight into the meaning of Mr. Tambourine
Man, which we have been blessed with, Robert Shelton in his book No
Direction Home offers the following:
"The song reaches toward a more universal experience than drugs. Knowing
black gospel music, Dylan could certainly identify the Tambourine Man as a
bearer of religious salvation, bringing a `joyful noise' into the church.
Any Salvation Army curbside troupe worth its faith uses a tambourine to
brighten its gospel."
In his description of Dylan's experiences on his road trip in 1964, when
he had stopped in New Orleans during the Mardis Gras, Shelton describes
this scene that Dylan passed by: "At one corner stood an old black woman,
larged-boned and intense, dressed in white, who preached about hell and
salvation and then sang gospel songs and spirituals, keeping time with
her tambourine."
In an interview in 1985, Bill Flanagan, author of Written in My Soul, asked
Dylan about the meaning of "Mr. Tambourine Man":
B.F.: Do all your songs have a literal reality to you?
Dylan: Well songs are just thoughts. For the moment they stop time. Songs
are supposed to be heroic enough to give the illusion of stopping time,
with just that thought. To hear a song is to hear someone's thought, no
matter what they are describing. If you see something and you think it's
important enough to describe, then that's your thought. You only think one
thought at time, so what you come up with is what you're given. . . . But
I usually have to have proof that something exists before I even want to
bother to deal with it at all. It must exist, it must have happened, or
the possibility of it happening must have some meaning for me. I'm not
going to write a fantasy song. Even a song like "Mr. Tambourine Man"
really isn't a fantasy. There's substance to the dream. Because you've
seen it, you know? In order to have a dream, there's something in front of
you. You have to have seen something or heard something for you to dream
it. It becomes *your* dream then. Whereas a fantasy is just your
imagination wandering around. I don't really look at my stuff like that.
It's happened, it's been said, I've heard it: I have proof of it. I'm a
messenger. I get it. It comes to me, so I give it back in my own
particular style.
B.F.: That's what I mean about songs having a literal reality: the images
aren't just random.
Dylan: Right. It does have a literal reality. I don't think it could
stand up if it didn't. Because other people can identify with it, and
they know if it's true or not.
Judging from what Bob Dylan said, "Mr. Tambourine Man" expresses the
thoughts that entered his mind as a result of something he truly
experienced in his life. He is absolutely certain concerning its reality
but describes his perception of it as a "dream," which is contrasted with
a fantasy or indulgence of the imagination. He also describes himself as a
messenger who feels the need to communicate the message that he received.
This message describes a "literal reality" that is verifiable by the
experience of other people.
From this, we can assume that Dylan expects other people to be able to
understand what he is communicating in "Mr. Tambourine Man." It is not
intended to be an eternal enigma that no one but himself could possibly
understand. He assumes others will be able to and have been able to
understand the message of the song because he says others are able to
know whether it describes reality truthfully or not. So, it is meant to
describe an experience in life that others have also had, but he
describes it from a unique perspective in a unique way. The personal
aspects of the song, however, do not limit the universal aspects, with
which others are intended to connect.
Robert Shelton's analysis of "The Dream-Hallucination As Mirror of
Reality" in Dylan's mid-sixties period is pertinent here:
"The priest-seer-artist dreams of a reality that lies outside ordinary
time and space yet mirrors the everyday world. They see more intensely
and clearly, and may also, by giving their vision structure, help us to
perceive and understand things we may have only fleetingly glimpsed.
. . . The folk aesthetic maintains that all men and women are potential
artists. The artist-in-every-man and the "holy" artist co-exist and
overlap. The artist, as dreamer-in-chief, lends structure, shape, and
color to the visions he will, at some point, share with his audience. The
best art is a flame warming our own imaginations, a campfire that
irradiates some universal human experiences."
It is my opinion, that "Mr. Tambourine Man" is one of Dylan's most
important songs. It is a key that unlocks the treasure chest of his
creative work, if it can be understood. But one must be willing to step
inside the vision of another. Ego must be temporarily set aside, and the
imaginative consciousness must be allowed to open; for Dylan works at the
furthermost range of conscious perception, which language can point to
but can't encompass.
I have previously referred to the Russian author, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,
in relation to Bob Dylan, and I think it is important to do so again as I
think that they share a similar view of art. In his Nobel Lecture,
Solzhenitsyn describes two kinds of artists. The first "imagines himself
to be the creator of an independent spiritual world," and works
autonomously, within his own mind, without reference to any conception of
a moral universe with objective meaning, "retreating . . . into the vast
spaces of subjective fancies." These include your typical postmodernist
writers, many of whom want to say that Dylan is one of them.
The second kind, Dylan's and Solzhenitsyn's kind, "acknowledges a higher
power above him and joyfully works as a common apprentice under God's
heaven." He understands himself to be a derivative creator. He derives his
creativity and vision from God the Creator, in whose image he was made. This
brings to mind Dylan's lines:
And if you hear vague traces of skippin' reels of rhyme
To your tambourine in time, it's just a ragged clown behind
I wouldn't pay it any mind, it's just a shadow you're
Seein' that he's chasin'
This reflects a humble attitude toward the true Artist, God, where the
poet acknowledges his dependence, inferiority and inability to see more
than a shadow of who God really is. According to Solzhenitsyn, this type
of artist reflects within his art the spiritual reality of the world which
God has made and in which we all live, whether we are consciously aware of
it or not. Of this kind of writer, Solzhenitsyn says, "The task of the
artist is to sense more keenly than others the harmony of the world, the
beauty and the outrage of what man has done to it, and poignantly to let
people know." And he has a burning passion to communicate these truths. In
fact, he is inspired by God to do so.
Dylan has always been a religious writer with a spiritual vision, the type
of artist that Solzhenitsyn described. And "Mr. Tambourine Man," along
with the rest of Bringing It All Back Home, represented a great leap
forward in the development of his unique style of songwriting and his
spiritual vision. "Mr. Tambourine Man" describes an experience that led
to a deeper realization or awareness of the transcendental nature of life
and of the One who is responsible for our being and the beauty of our world.
M.M.
trolls-R-us
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.970212133601.8914A-100000@godzil
la5.acpub.duke.edu>,
Mark Moore <mmo...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>And if you hear vague traces of skippin' reels
>of rhyme To your tambourine in time, it's just
>a ragged clown behind I wouldn't pay it any
>mind, it's just a shadow you're
>Seein' that he's chasin'
>
>This reflects a humble attitude toward the
>true Artist, God, where the
>poet acknowledges his dependence, inferiority
>and inability to see more
>than a shadow of who God really is.
you mean it wasn't about
a bad trip to the refrigerator
with the munchies?
>Dylan has always been a religious writer with
>a spiritual vision,
no religion i would join
without payment up front
>"Mr. Tambourine Man" describes an experience
>that led to a deeper realization or awareness
>of the transcendental nature of life
>and of the One who is responsible for our
>being and the beauty of our world.
i guess i'll trash the version which has
him staying up all night dropping tabs
>M.M.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
sadiejane
<bric...@cyberia.com> wrote:
>I'm looking for some new slants to what these songs mean. If you have
>an especially meaningful interpretation of any dylan song, I'd be
>interested in hearing it. Thanks.
>
The Hurdy-Gurdy Man (Der Leierman)
by Wilhelm MŸller (1794-1827)
Over there beyond the village stands a hurdy-gurdy man,
and with numb fingers he winds as best he can.
He staggers around, barefoot on the ice,
and his little plate always stays empty.
No one wants to hear him, no one looks at him,
and the dogs growl around the old man.
And he lets it pass, lets everything be,
Winds, and his hurdy-gurdy never stays still.
Strange old man, should I come with you?
Will you grind your hurdy-gurdy to my songs?
=================================================
hey Mr. tambourine man.....
xx
sj
Delia hat nicht getotet....
goh...@gte.net
Joe Cliburn wrote:
> What was Dylan
> thinking when he wrote "Mr Tambourine Man"? God knows.
What was he thinking when he wrote "God Knows"? Mr. Tambourine Man.
yukyukyukyukyukyuk!
Wayland
Matt Simonsen
>> > I've been a lot closer than 20 yards from Dylan for a long time!
>--
>All the best ..... Roger
>
>http://mcguinn.com/
I have a question for Roger:
Why did you choose the particular verse of Mr. Tambourine Man that is on your
version? Does it have anything to do with your own personal interpretation,
or is it just your favorite line in the song. Couldn't have made a bad choice
no matter which one you picked anyway:)
matt
Roger McGuinn
I liked that verse with "Boot heels wandering." Because it reminded me
of Jack Kerouac.
Joseph Bair
> <bric...@cyberia.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm looking for some new slants to what these songs mean. If you have
> >an especially meaningful interpretation of any dylan song, I'd be
> >interested in hearing it. Thanks.
> >
To me it was kinda like a middle class Mr. Bojangles, the
background is not a jailhouse and his dog did'nt "up and died." I don't
know which came first. Both cry out for the the entertainer who has a
knack at solving his/her problems -manana-, by simply playing the
tamborine or jumping up high. Both make me feel very care-free.
joe
Monte Rogneby
. . . . I have always thought that the reason Dylan's music is so
powerful is that its capable of multiple, plausible, rational,
interpretations. Great art is great because it lives inside each person
who experiences it. Dylan might have had something particular in mind
when he wrote Mr. Tambourine Man. So what. The reason its a great song
is because each listener can interpret the song based on his/her own
experiences. There is no final answer. My understanding is that Dylan
himself does not pretend to know what most of his songs are about.
Its damn interesting, however, reading about what others think Dylan's
songs are about.
Keep up the good work
Monte
Stephen Scobie/Maureen Scobie
In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.97021...@godzilla5.acpub.duke.edu>, Mark
Moore <mmo...@acpub.duke.edu> wrote:
>
> Judging from what Bob Dylan said, "Mr. Tambourine Man" expresses the
> thoughts that entered his mind as a result of something he truly
> experienced in his life. He is absolutely certain concerning its reality
> but describes his perception of it as a "dream," which is contrasted with
> a fantasy or indulgence of the imagination. He also describes himself as a
> messenger who feels the need to communicate the message that he received.
> This message describes a "literal reality" that is verifiable by the
> experience of other people.
You're making some very interesting points, but I think the argument slips
here, or at least is ambiguous.
There is (1) "something he truly experienced in life," which may have been
seeing a woman on a street corner, or may have been seeing Bruce Langhorne
playing a tambourine, or may have been something else altogether. Then
there is (2) the "dream," in which his poetic imagination transforms this
reality into the image of "Mister Tambourine Man."
But the "literal reality" which the song then communicates is (2), not
(1). (1) is not present in the song, or at least is not determinable from
the song. Dylan's experience of seeing a woman, or Langhorne, is *not*
"verifiable by the experience of other people" -- so, while interesting,
it is not, strictly speaking, relevant to an interpretation of the song.
(2), however, *is* verifiable by the audience.
Do you not agree, or did I misinterpret you?
> Dylan works at the
> furthermost range of conscious perception, which language can point to
> but can't encompass.
But "there is nothing outside the text" ... oops, wrong post.
>
> I have previously referred to the Russian author, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,
> in relation to Bob Dylan, and I think it is important to do so again as I
> think that they share a similar view of art.
I sure hope not, considering that ever since he left Russia Solzhenitsyn
has failed to produce any great novels, and is now widely regarded as an
eccentric irrelevance in his own country.
> These include your typical postmodernist
> writers, many of whom want to say that Dylan is one of them.
Such as whom? (And don't say me; I do not consider myself postmodernist.
In fact, I am trying very hard to give up use of the word altogether.)
>
> He understands himself to be a derivative creator. He derives his
> creativity and vision from God the Creator, in whose image he was made. This
> brings to mind Dylan's lines:
>
> And if you hear vague traces of skippin' reels of rhyme
> To your tambourine in time, it's just a ragged clown behind
> I wouldn't pay it any mind, it's just a shadow you're
> Seein' that he's chasin'
"This" may bring Dylan's words to *your* mind, but not to mine. The
spectacle of an undecidable and multiply deferred absence does fit my idea
of the Muse, but not my understanding of the God of orthodox Christian
theology.
Peter Stone Brown
Mr. Tambourine Man came first.
--
"I was just too stubborn to ever be governed
by enforced insanity." --Bob Dylan
Peter Stone Brown
e-mail: pet...@erols.com http://songs.com/psb
geof...@igs.net
I don't really have one. I can only tell you about spending a day with
Bob in Belfast in May1966, in the afternoon before his concert there
on the 6 May.I played hooky from grammar school that day in Larne and
took the train to Belfast.Walking up Royal Avenue I passed the Royal
Hotel doorway where a large blonde guy stood combing his hair in his
own reflection inside the lobby. I knew immediately he was American. I
went in, looked at him and asked if he was with Dylan.He said "Sure,
my name's Mike, I'm the drummer" Itold him my story, 17 years old,
totally devoted etc; and I guess he took me for the real thing and
invited me to come with him to the soundcheck.Wegot into the cab he
had been waiting for and went around the City Hall to the A B C Ritz
cinema.We went in by the side door and he stopped me and said "If
anyone asks you how you got in here don't tell them I brought you in'I
swore to silence and proceeded to walk through several doors. I ended
up standing in the middle of the stage. Of course I was totally
shocked by this fast trasportation from school to heaven and did'nt
have time to even think about it before someone asked me what I
wanted.I mumbled something nonsensical( I think I was probably not
breathing at this point) and walked off stage to find somewhere to
hide. I took some stairs down at the side of the stage to a corridor
underneath what was the orchestra pit.It was one of those wonderful
old cinemas from the forties with a huge Wurlitzer organ which emerged
from somewhere down below.
Irealized at this time that the organ was being played by someone,
skillfully.but rather strangely,there were quite a number of people
milling around but my main effort was devoted to hiding and not being
noticed.I sat in the darkness of the steps leading down from the
orchestra pit .My eyes gradually ajusted to the darkness.The stage was
somewhat lit up but the rest of the space was a gloomy cavern.I peered
out,safe and hidden.Where was Bob Dylan ? I could see everything.Some
folks were setting up a camera at the front of the stage,I know all
their names now but did'nt then.(Grossman, his wife, Newrith,
Robertson etc;) I was looking out from stage right ( from my point of
view) and they were right infront of me but they couldn't see me as I
was a few steps down from them in total darkness.I didn't see Dylan
anywhere, at least I didn't see the person I thought Bob Dylan was
from the album covers.Don't forget Blonde On blonde wouldn't be
released for a few weeks.I looked across to the far side of the first
row. There was something or possibly someone way over there.I
checkedout the orchestra pit design.If there was a door on this side
there was in all probability a door on the other side.I went back into
the corridor along underneath the stage and walked across to the other
side.Emerging from the mirror image of the door on the other side that
I'd just left, I stepped up and very silently, sat down on the top
step.Just infront of me, about four feet away was a figure, slumped
down in the seat of the front row of the cinema,it looked like a dark
mop stuck on top of a bundle of twigs.I realized instantly that I was
four feet away from the strangest person that I'd ever come across and
that there was my hero, my God, my idol, the person that occupied my
every waking thought since I first heard his voice three years
earlier,and mistook that voice to be that of some old blues
character.I think it was at this point that I experienced a first and
last fully realized out-of-the-body shift.My heart was going so fast
that I don't think even modern equipment could have seen between the
beats.I took out my sketch pad and began to draw, at least I pretended
to.For some crazy reason I thought that if I was caught at this
point,if I had some reasonably artistic reason for stalking the man,it
might save my skin.I was at this point shaking with awe and terror.I
sat there drawing Dylan,who didn't move, for two hours.After what
seemed like a very long time the figure made of matchsticks and fluff
moved.It got up. I realized that I'd been staring at someone who had
been asleep for two hours.It stretched and gave a vigorous scratch to
the mop it was wearing as a hat and stilted over to where the camera
was being set up.That was exactly opposite whereI'd come from two
hours earlier.Icrept back down the stairs and along the corridor.
Back to where I'd started,only this time there He was,three feet
away. I sat down again,this time on the bottom step.I started to
draw.It was just some primitive instinctual protective notion to
shield me from the consequences of being discovered.
There were soft murmerings of camera angles, lenses,views
through the eyepiece.Then someone arrived bearing candy.Apparently,
someone had been sent out to buy every candy bar that this strange
country had to offer.The candy bars where lined up on a speaker and I
sat awe struck while this gorgon-like creature (this was not the Bob I
thought I knew) tore the top of the wrapper off every bar, lined them
up again and proceded to bite a sample off of each and every one.What
the fuck was going on? Was this weird apparition the cheeky face from
the cover of Highway 61? Was this the wrapped-up figure from the cover
of Bringing It All Back Home ? No, this was something never seen on
this earth before, and shock of shocks, every other word out of the
gorgon's mouth was the word fuck! Remember I was 17, it was 1966, Bob
Dylan occupied a position roughly equivalent to mother teresa
today.Asthey say in Ireland, I was gobsmacked.
Things happened fast after that.Grossman's wife looked down and
whispered to Bob "Someone's down there drawing you"
"I'll fuckin' draw him" came the reply.
I had definately stopped breathing at this point.Everything went
into slow motion.I had to make a decision to either die right there,or
rise up, gather what was left of my mind and face up to the
condemnation of this persona,who by this point had turned into a greek
god who could destroy me merely by glancing at his pinky finger.
I got up.Bobby Newrith got in my face demanding to know what I
wanted.I tried to keep breathing."What do you want" he said
loudly.Dylan was standing right beside me.Waiting for what I had to
say.I was of course struck dumb by this,what seemed to me,unwarranted
attack from someone at that time I didn't even know.I could only
mummer "nothing" and walk away.
I walked up to the back of the cinema and stood behind the
partition. Dylan, who all this time was wailing "where's the fuckin'
taxi where's the fuckin' taxi came striding up towards me.My heart
finally stopped.He strode up the isle so angered and upset glaring at
me through his dark glasses in so frightening a manner stopping short
by about ten feet,and just glaring in a totally intimidating way for
what seemed so long,that I wondered, this isn't the person that I
associated with love and understanding, with civil rights and Medger
Evers, this person's a freak . And do you know what ? That person
has taken me through my twenties, thirties,forties and I'm sure will
see me through my fifties, just slightly behind him, but eager for
what he has to give, a creative genius unrivalled in modern
times,fulsome in his thought processes, loved by many, alone always.
Goodnight Bob, sleep well, I'm so glad I'm not you.Joe Cliburn
wrote:
Nancy Bernardi-Baker
In a message dated 97-02-11 14:48:57 EST, you write:
<< On 10 Feb 1997, Pezfleck wrote:
> No offense to Mr. McGuinn but just because he sang "Mr. Tambourine Man"
> that doesn't make him an authority on it's composition. His comment about
> what he was thinking about when he sang it has nothing to do with what
> Dylan was doing when he wrote it.
I didn't say it makes him an authority on its composition. The author is
the only authority on that. I was saying that, in light of his background
and history with the song, his interpretation is extremely weighty and
highly important and should be taken very seriously. Other interpretations
are always possible. As Roger McGuinn is also a great songwriter and a
friend of Bob Dylan's for many years, he has insights that few have and
his opinions outweigh the often ludicrous, often unimaginative ideas that
all the self-satisfied, egocentric, self-appointed experts out there
continue to spew forth.
M.M.
I would like to thank Mark Moore for the Ken Kesey quotes
regarding Dylan, LSD, and what distinguishes LSD from the majority
of substances our government has seen fit to lump together under the
label of "drugs." Mr. Moore tried to clarify, for those disturbed by the
"common knowledge " available to those of us who experienced the late 60's,
that Mr. Tambourine Man is "about" an LSD experience, but that they need
not judge Bob according to their anti-drug paranoia and prejudices because
of that. Not surprisingly, it was an exercise in futility.
You'll note that Pezfleck didn't address the major portion
of the post's content, those Kesey quotes about LSD, consciousness,
spirituality, and Bob Dylan- among others- tripping. The idea of Bob
taking LSD seems to disturb Pezfleck as much as it disturbed the
individual who reacted with the brilliant retort, "Whaat? Get outta here,
you hippie!" ( And if that was meant as a joke or sarcasm, someone
needs to learn that, in the absence of facial expression and vocal
inflection, a wit needs to provide some concrete indication of attitude,
if he/she wishes to be appreciated and understood. In the absence of
same, we can only assume sincerity, and ignorance.)
Instead of addressing MM's substantiation of an LSD trip as
the inspiration for, and subject of, Tambourine Man, Pezfleck chose
to attack Roger McGuinn as an authority on:
a friend and fellow-musician; a significant
period in the history of this century, this nation, society in general? (a
judgment it is too early to
make); and events that Mr. McGuinn experienced and knew of first-hand.
It seems that personal attack continues to be the preferred weapon of the
uninformed and unwilling to learn....
Incidentally, prior to reading some of the articles posted here,
I
would have agreed that "Dylan admirers do not particularly respect
authority." Some of us don't necessarily respect authority, but we do
respect honesty, integrity, objectivity and fairness...and anyone who
demonstrates those qualities. Apparently, though, there are "Dylan
admirers" who do respect authority, as long as it is an authority that
agrees with their narrow point of view. Those individuals do not
understand Mr. Dylan at all, but feel free to bend and twist his words
to suit their own self-righteous beliefs and opinions, while ignoring
all evidence to the contrary, including Bob's own actions. Regardless
of their experience, or lack of it, their lack of flexibility and rigid
thought-
patterns preclude their ever being able to fathom the mercurial nature
of someone like Dylan. Yet they continue to claim him as their own,
all the while exhibiting precisely the behavior and attitudes for which
Bob Dylan has reserved his harshest criticism and funniest, most
biting satire!
What can one say???
Nancy
R. Bentz Kirby
ViaPa...@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
> Some of us don't necessarily respect authority, but we do
> respect honesty, integrity, objectivity and fairness...and anyone who
> demonstrates those qualities. Apparently, though, there are "Dylan
> admirers" who do respect authority, as long as it is an authority that
> agrees with their narrow point of view. Those individuals do not
> understand Mr. Dylan at all, but feel free to bend and twist his words
> to suit their own self-righteous beliefs and opinions, while ignoring
> all evidence to the contrary, including Bob's own actions. Regardless
> of their experience, or lack of it, their lack of flexibility and rigid
> thought-
> patterns preclude their ever being able to fathom the mercurial nature
> of someone like Dylan. Yet they continue to claim him as their own,
> all the while exhibiting precisely the behavior and attitudes for which
> Bob Dylan has reserved his harshest criticism and funniest, most
> biting satire!
> What can one say???
> Nancy
I thought this was a well said post to the group. I could not help but
think of how many use the words in THE BIBLE for their own purposes as
well. The words of Paul are being used to justify the flying of the
Confederate Naval Battle Jack over my State House now. I attempted to
make a similar point recently with my comment about the Pharisees that
the organized religion has become. I think it is quite difficult for
someone who does not remember the atmosphere from 1965 through 1970 to
understand what you are talking about unless they have an open mind. On
the other hand, just because Dylan ingested LSD doesn't mean you have
to, or should, do the same. Only a few, like Dylan, Hendrix etc., that
is to say, true poets, can experience that, remember it and write a song
that is instructive of a completely open mind. And many of those were
ultimately destroyed. Dylan continues to survive and that is something
that bears further thought.
Peace,
Bentz
goh...@gte.net
Nancy wrote:
> What can one say???
As often is the case here, one has said more than enough. You seem to
be saying that you judge these people critically because of their
(faulty) judgment.
Wayland
DNaimon
he was thinking about a tambourine
Jesse Kodadek
R. Bentz Kirby (boc...@scsn.net) wrote:
[regarding LSD experiences]
: to, or should, do the same. Only a few, like Dylan, Hendrix etc., that
: is to say, true poets, can experience that, remember it and write a song
: that is instructive of a completely open mind. And many of those were
: ultimately destroyed.
Can you clarify this some? Are you saying only poets should be using
psychedelics?
Second, I have a hard time accepting the fact that LSD ruined all that
many people. A lot of us have known people that went over the edge after
use of (copious amounts of) psychedelics, but, at least in the cases I've
seen, those people weren't exactly stable beforehand. And I would blame
the other drugs much sooner than the LSD.
--
jess kodadek
jkod...@visi.com
always looking for dead, phish, & wsp trades, email me for list
Gary Dispoto
In article <5eiiht$q4g$1...@darla.visi.com> jkod...@visi.com (Jesse Kodadek) writes:
>Second, I have a hard time accepting the fact that LSD ruined all that
>many people. A lot of us have known people that went over the edge after
>use of (copious amounts of) psychedelics, but, at least in the cases I've
>seen, those people weren't exactly stable beforehand. And I would blame
>the other drugs much sooner than the LSD.
Y'know. I just listened to an interview Dylan gave in London around the time
SOL came out. He summed up the whole drug/alcohol thing up quite nicely when
he said, "You eat too much candy, you're gonna get sick." Doesn't really
matter what candy it is, LSD included.
Drugs are, of course, very alluring. I believe they do have their place, but
I also think you really, really need to be careful about thier seductive
power. Some Bad Things have an incredible ability to pose as Good Things. I
know many people (myself included) just have to learn that the hard way. And
some unfortunately die before they ever learn the lesson.
Gary
Montresor9
Drugs are, of course, very alluring. I believe they do have their place,
but
I also think you really, really need to be careful about thier seductive
power. Some Bad Things have an incredible ability to pose as Good Things.
I
know many people (myself included) just have to learn that the hard way.
And
some unfortunately die before they ever learn the lesson.
Well, you know they denied Jesus too.