Self Portrait
Kf4tei
probably never be ranked as a great album but I feel it is in a category as a
good album. I like the country version of "Like A Rolling Stone". It sounds so
different, you would have thought it was a different song. I like Dylan's
version of Paul Simon's "The Boxer" even though Simon and Garfunkel did it
better. I know there is a lot of people and critics out there who probably hate
this and the "Dylan" outtakes with a passion but I still feel it is not the
worst album in the world! There are a lot of albums in this decade that would
fit that category! I would like to know some opinions on this album.
Leroy
Richard Batey
>I would like to know some opinions on this album.
I like it a lot. And if anyone out there has the vinyl version with the 360
Sound label (and you just haven't gotten around to selling it in the garage
sale)--I'll trade $$, CDs or whatever for it.
Richard
Joe Cliburn
For that matter, if you have a copy of the Freewheelin' LP with John
Birch Society Blues on it that you haven't sold from your garage,
Richard would like to hear from you, too ;-)
Joe
--
"Obviously, I'm not an IBM computer any more than I'm an ashtray."
- Dylan
Richard Batey
>For that matter, if you have a copy of the Freewheelin' LP with John
>Birch Society Blues on it that you haven't sold from your garage,
>Richard would like to hear from you, too ;-)
Thanks Joe. You forgot to mention that I'm also looking for these LPs to buy or
trade for:
1. The Folk Blues of Eric Von Schmidt (on Prestige 7717)
2. Just Dave Van Ronk (on Mercury)
3. the Judy Roderick album (on Columbia CL 2153)
4. Bob Dylan Bootleg Series 1-3
richard (rba...@gate.net)
Quadrofnia
Ugh. I think it is total crap. I tried listeining to it just to day and I could
not get through it. The songs are boring and Dylans sounds like he's phoning in
the vocals. Right now this is my least favorite Dylan album, and probably one
of the worst albums ever made.
- - Chris
Dino
> not get through it. The songs are boring and Dylans sounds like he's phoning in
> the vocals. Right now this is my least favorite Dylan album, and probably one
> of the worst albums ever made.
Give Self Portrait more time. It's a shock at first, but once you begin
to understand what he's doing, you'll appreciate just what a wonderful
collection it is. Try listening while intoxicated; that's one of the
best ways to find the door into Self-Portrait-land. It's like a zen
thing. If I tried to tell you in words, you'd be underwhelmed and would
never be able to appreciate the album. If you give it time and serious
consideration, you'll figure it out and suddenly it'll make sense why
Bob moans (off key) throughout "Wigwam" and why the Isle Of Wight songs
were used as "filler" when there were more than enough tracks left from
the regular sessions. Self Portrait is one of Bob's longest, most
cohesive, and most ambitious works--it's just disguised as a turd to
piss off the Webermans of the world.
let your hair hang low,
Dino
Dag
Quadrofnia wrote:
> > I really like this album because of its down >home feeling.
>
> Ugh. I think it is total crap. I tried listeining to it just to day and I could
> not get through it. The songs are boring and Dylans sounds like he's phoning in
> the vocals. Right now this is my least favorite Dylan album, and probably one
> of the worst albums ever made.
>
> - - Chris
worse than "dylan & the dead"?
Oh look, he's driving a long, long time
There he still sits on top of the hill
Well aching and jumping with all laid down
With all of them ladies you know he's lonely still
Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
Who's gonna let it roll ?
Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
Who's gonna let it down easy to save his soul ?
Lloyd Fonvielle
Dag wrote:
> Oh look, he's driving a long, long time
> There he still sits on top of the hill
> Well aching and jumping with all laid down
> With all of them ladies you know he's lonely still
> Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
> Who's gonna let it roll ?
> Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
> Who's gonna let it down easy to save his soul ?
I always thought it was:
Oh , Lucky's driving a long, long time
But there he still sits on top of the hill
With aching wonder, with all laid down
With all of them ladies you know he's lonely still . . .
Orphie
first bought this album 20 years ago i played maybe twice and hated it. i decided
to purchase it on cd to complete my dylan collection and really started liking the
disk quite a bit.
Dag
Lloyd Fonvielle wrote:
depends on which lyric-site you cut and paste from:-)
--
--------------------------
http://home.sol.no/~dylan/
--------------------------
Lloyd Fonvielle
Dag wrote:
> Lloyd Fonvielle wrote:
>
> > Dag wrote:
> >
> > > Oh look, he's driving a long, long time
> > > There he still sits on top of the hill
> > > Well aching and jumping with all laid down
> > > With all of them ladies you know he's lonely still
> > > Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
> > > Who's gonna let it roll ?
> > > Who's gonna throw that minstrel boy a coin ?
> > > Who's gonna let it down easy to save his soul ?
> >
> > I always thought it was:
> >
> > Oh , Lucky's driving a long, long time
> > But there he still sits on top of the hill
> > With aching wonder, with all laid down
> > With all of them ladies you know he's lonely still . . .
>
> depends on which lyric-site you cut and paste from:-)
Didn't visit a lyric site for this -- just how I heard it . . . and
always loved the phrase "with aching wonder" -- but it could be
imaginary.
Some of the lyrics on the official Bob site have little to do with the
songs as recorded -- check out "Santa Fe" -- but seem to have been
reworked by Dylan himself, or someone who does a good imitation of him.
The official lyrics to "Santa Fe" are just as crazy, and funnier, than
what Dylan sings on the Basement Tapes.
Eric Bloom
think about it, $16 or so, is not alot of money to hear a beautiful,
touching tune by a legend. I remember playing ISLE for a friend of mine
in high school. This dude loooved Dan Fogelberg and James Taylor, and
thought Dylan was a sloppy-dirty druggy who was badly in need of
personal hygiene and grooming, and an operation on his vocal chords
(different strokes....).
So, I played him ISLE. At first, of course, he had no idea who it was.
Told'm it was ol' Bob. He was at first crushed, but then just had to
admit what a gorgeous song it was, and what a perfectly lovely
instrumental job the band did. He literally almost had tears in his
eyes. I'll say this; if I'm really in the proper mood, lights off,
candles, quiet, thinking about my own true loves lost, and play this
tune, I can easily well up like a small fountain.
There's about six or seven other cuts on the album that remind me of
stories and memories that make this "mediocre" collection INDESPENSABLE,
to me.
CELEBRATING ART AS A WAY OF LIFE!
Mark Charles
I am listening to it right now & once again being reminded of what a gem
it is. And BTW, I also liked "Dylan".
Sweet Melinda
on a marvelous journey and shows sides of Dylan that nothing else does.
The vocals are beautiful, and it is an eclectic masterpiece unlike any
other.
To compare it to Blonde on Blonde, for instance, would be like trying to
compare wing nuts and peanuts. They serve very different purposes, but
each serves its purpose quite well. I don't think I could say Self
Portrait is better or worse than anything else for that reason. It's
uncatagorizable and profound in its own way.
Pure genius. I love the way Bob's mind works!
--
Sweet Melinda
The peasants call her the goddess of gloom
Alan Fraser
>
>Self Portrait is a fabulous album as far as I'm concerned. It takes you
>on a marvelous journey and shows sides of Dylan that nothing else does.
>The vocals are beautiful, and it is an eclectic masterpiece unlike any
>other.
You're a very gracious person, Melinda, especially considering that Greil
Marcus' review in Rolling Stone was titled "What is this shit?"! It's a
measure of Bob's greatness that even though for him to put this out was
at the time considered unacceptable, with hindsight we are able to see
the album in context and appreciate it for its own worth, as a celebration
of his roots, his influences, and fun. It struck me when I was contributing
to the thread on the Self Portrait out-take "Alligator Man" that no-one
today thinks that for Bob to record this song, which he may have learned
from the Greenbriar Boys, was in any way wrong.
Thanks to CP Lee for sending me his latest CD, the Satans Of Swing Live
At The Band On The Wall in Manchester, from June this year, on which the
Satans do a lively rendition of Alligator Man, as well as great versions
of Penny's Farm, I Wish I Was A Mole In The Ground, and John Wesley
Harding. He's now doing a Christmas album on which they style themselves
the Santas of Swing :-)!
Alan
Peter Stone Brown
>
> Self Portrait is a fabulous album as far as I'm concerned. It takes you
> on a marvelous journey and shows sides of Dylan that nothing else does.
> The vocals are beautiful, and it is an eclectic masterpiece unlike any
> other.
>
> compare wing nuts and peanuts. They serve very different purposes, but
> each serves its purpose quite well. I don't think I could say Self
> Portrait is better or worse than anything else for that reason. It's
> uncatagorizable and profound in its own way.
>
> Pure genius. I love the way Bob's mind works!
>
This is taking things way too far. Self Portrait is one of the least significant albums
of Dylan's career. The performances for the most part are half-hearted (with a couple
of exceptions) and sloppy. It is Dylan at his most mindless which was kind of the
point. I always considered this Dylan to eat corn flakes to. The New York sessions of
primarily folk songs are at the top of the list of the least emotional recordings he
ever made, while the Nashville covers which the Nashville musicians could have done in
their sleep are minimally inspired -- check out the originals of these songs whether by
George Jones or the Everly Brothers and ol' crooning Bob doesn't come anywhere close.
Then there's the Isle of Wight Stuff. In typical style, he left the best stuff from
that strangest of all Dylan concerts off.
I believe Dylan when he said in Rolling Stone talking about Self Portrait, "If you have
a lot of shit, load it up."
--
"I can't even remember what it was I came
here to get away from." --Bob Dylan
Peter Stone Brown
e-mail: pet...@erols.com
http://www.tangible-music.com/peterstonebrown/
Seth Kulick
Peter Stone Brown <pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>Sweet Melinda wrote:
[...]
>
>
>This is taking things way too far. Self Portrait is one of the least significant albums
>of Dylan's career. The performances for the most part are half-hearted (with a couple
>of exceptions) and sloppy. It is Dylan at his most mindless which was kind of the
>point. I always considered this Dylan to eat corn flakes to. The New York sessions of
You are so clueless, Mr. Brown. You must be an old fart if you think this
is music to eat corn flakes to. This makes a mockery of the album! Don't
you understand the significance of how he first "searches" for Little Sadie,
and then finds her later, thus dropping the "In Search Of"? Also, I hope I
don't have to go into the religious significance of this. Corn flakes,
indeed! Well, I guess it's possible to eat corn flakes to, but when you're
up and dancing to this record, as I always do, it's a bit hard to eat at the
same time, since the milk splashes all over my hooded sweatshirt.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Seth Kulick "The hypnotic splattered mist
University of Pennsylvania was slowly lifting" - Bob Dylan
sku...@linc.cis.upenn.edu http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~skulick/home.html
Sweet Melinda
> You're a very gracious person, Melinda, especially considering that Greil
> Marcus' review in Rolling Stone was titled "What is this shit?"! It's a
> measure of Bob's greatness that even though for him to put this out was
> at the time considered unacceptable, with hindsight we are able to see
> the album in context and appreciate it for its own worth, as a celebration
> of his roots, his influences, and fun. It struck me when I was contributing
> to the thread on the Self Portrait out-take "Alligator Man" that no-one
> today thinks that for Bob to record this song, which he may have learned
> from the Greenbriar Boys, was in any way wrong.
What!? Me Gracious?
Seriously though, has our friend Bob ever done anything "acceptable?" That's
what I like about him. I will say I'm not really fond of his version of The
Boxer, but I have a sneaking suspicion it was supposed to be that way.
EEG
primarily, and though it has its charms for Dylan aficionados, is not very
compelling. Not everything Dylan does is great, or even good, though in
context everything is meaningful.
I personally can't stand Self-Portrait, but then again, I can barely
tolerate JWH. Fortunately there's enought wonderful stuff in the ouevre for
nearly everyone to appreciate.
EEG
PS: I don't think Peter Stone Brown's opinions should be dismissed so
lightly, or so rudely.
Sweet Melinda wrote in message <365B0FD4...@door13.com>...
Richard
never play it. Some recordings from Bob sing to me and some do not. I would
not turn it off if it came on the radio, and may listen to it again to see
if in my old age, just inches from the grave, it talks to me now in a way it
never did before. I would prefer an egg cream to corn flakes however. Tell
you what. I'll put in on tonight and see if my 31/2 year old and 7 year old
dance or ask me to take it off. (Hint, I have never gotten through one
complete viewing of either Eat the Document or Renaldo and Clara. My kids
joke with my wife when I am left home alone for the evening that I am
probably watching a Bob Dylan movie). You must know that Bob could have done
a lot better.
Seth Kulick wrote in message <73evje$gk2$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>...
Seth Kulick
Seth Kulick <sku...@muzungu.cis.upenn.edu> wrote:
>In article <365AF7...@erols.com>,
>Peter Stone Brown <pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>>Sweet Melinda wrote:
[...]
>You are so clueless, Mr. Brown. You must be an old fart if you think this
>is music to eat corn flakes to. This makes a mockery of the album! Don't
>you understand the significance of how he first "searches" for Little Sadie,
>and then finds her later, thus dropping the "In Search Of"? Also, I hope I
>don't have to go into the religious significance of this. Corn flakes,
>indeed! Well, I guess it's possible to eat corn flakes to, but when you're
>up and dancing to this record, as I always do, it's a bit hard to eat at the
>same time, since the milk splashes all over my hooded sweatshirt.
>
Just to be clear, this was not meant to be taken at all seriously. I really
should use those :) things.
Um, seriously, there are some things on Self Portrait I like - Days of '49,
Gotta Travel On, a few other things. But some others are just wretched -
In Search of Little Sadie, ugh!
Dante
scare of his audience to allow him to start things over, a fresh start,
without expactations from audience and critics. This doesn't mean, however,
that it's a bad album. It's just that this is not a "Bob Dylan album" that
critics and his usual audience wanted to hear. I believe that Bob really did
music he liked himself and he knew it would be hard for the audience (and
critics) to accept it if you waited for another Highway 61 or Blonde On
Blonde.
/Dante
EEG wrote in message <73f5o3$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Mark Henteleff
Seth Kulick <sku...@muzungu.cis.upenn.edu> wrote:
>In article <365AF7...@erols.com>,
>Peter Stone Brown <pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>>Sweet Melinda wrote:
>
>[...]
>>
>>
>>of Dylan's career. The performances for the most part are half-hearted (with a couple
>>of exceptions) and sloppy. It is Dylan at his most mindless which was kind of the
>>point. I always considered this Dylan to eat corn flakes to. The New York sessions of
>
>is music to eat corn flakes to. This makes a mockery of the album! Don't
>you understand the significance of how he first "searches" for Little Sadie,
>and then finds her later, thus dropping the "In Search Of"? Also, I hope I
>don't have to go into the religious significance of this. Corn flakes,
>indeed! Well, I guess it's possible to eat corn flakes to, but when you're
>up and dancing to this record, as I always do, it's a bit hard to eat at the
>same time, since the milk splashes all over my hooded sweatshirt.
>
>Seth Kulick "The hypnotic splattered mist
C'mon, people, Dylan himself stated that the album was thrown together
purely for contractual reasons. Although there are a few great ones,
like Days of 49 and Copper Kettle, the vast bulk of it is not only
crap...but INTENTIONAL crap. His version of the Boxer has gotta
be a shot at Simon....an OK song rendered completely lifeless to
the extent of showing how lyrically hokey the song really is.
Self-Portrait (of the artist in a very cynical state) should have
been the title. The worst thing Bob ever put out....right down
there with Hard Rain and Under the Red Sky...and much worse than
those, as bad as those are.
Mark H.
KSRKJR
Peter Stone Brown
>
>
> I really should use those :) things.
>
Those :) things are known as emoticons purportedly. Maybe if you weren't spilling milk
like you got somewhere to go you'd know that. In any case, I'd get that sweatshirt out
on the clothesline quick before mama wants you to bring it back in.
Lloyd Fonvielle
Peter Stone Brown wrote:
> Self Portrait is one of the least significant albums of Dylan's career. The performances
> for the most part are half-hearted (with a couple of exceptions) and sloppy . . .
I feel this way, too, but keep believing that I must be mistaken. Every few years I'll
think, you know, if I go back to "Self Portrait" now, I bet I'll discover a whole new level
I never got before. I go back and it's still . . . "Self Portrait". It's that most
unusual and disturbing kind of Dylan album: it's "o.k." . . .
Lloyd Fonvielle
Alan Fraser wrote:
> Thanks to CP Lee for sending me his latest CD, the Satans Of Swing Live
> At The Band On The Wall in Manchester . . . He's now doing a Christmas album
> on which they style themselves the Santas of Swing :-)!
I keep hoping Dylan will do a Christmas album someday -- get excited just
thinking how weird it would be . . .
Bobby Massey
<snip> It struck me when I was contributing to the thread on the Self
Portrait out-take "Alligator Man" that no-one today thinks that for Bob
to record this song, which he may have learned from the Greenbriar Boys,
Am I missing something here? Are you saying that some songs should be
off limits for Bob to perform? Guess we can start a new thread on this
subject but I can't think of any. I wouldn't particularly care to hear
him sing "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" but it shouldn't be off
limits & I'm sure I'd buy it anyway.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Maureen & Stephen Scobie
>
> This is taking things way too far. Self Portrait is one of the least
significant albums
> of Dylan's career.
This is a moment I've been waiting for for years. Peter, I've agreed with
everything you've ever posted to this group. I've found you the most
intelligent and perceptive commentator on all sorts of matters. I kept on
wondering whether we were ever going to disagree about anything.....
At last!
I *love* Self Portrait. Always have, always will. I certainly play it
more often than I do other works which I know I "ought" to like better. I
bet I've listened to it five times since I last played all the way through
Blood on the Tracks. I continue to be intrigued by the title. And now,for
the first time, I am seriously trying to work out what I think of the cover
painting....
Stephen
Peter Stone Brown
If you'll notice, I never said I didn't like it, I just said it's one of
the lest significant, good to eat cornflakes too, and mindless among
other things. I've listened to it a preposterous amount of times and
been known to play All the tired Horses, Copper Kettle and Take A
Message to Mary several times in a row. But then I admit that I'm
insane. :-).
However it is still among his least significant and I think he put it
out to see just how many fans he could alienate, along with a bunch of
business reasons.
Wolfds
>Bob once said he did Self-Portrait to cool things down and to, in a way,
>scare of his audience to allow him to start things over, a fresh start,
>without expactations from audience and critics. This doesn't mean, however,
>that it's a bad album.
I'd also say it doesn't mean we should begin taking Bob at his word (given, I
believe, with 20-20 hindsight). Count me among the SP (Not to mention Dylan-A
Fool Such as I) lovers; perhaps The Boxer most of all.
Dave
d
A long time best friend of mine was trying desperately to get me "into" dylan
for some reason (as did seem the whole world at the time ....) and she figured
this album might get me "listening" and she was right. It presented to me a
"side" of Dylan I didnt realize existed.
However, Peter Stone Brown makes some interesting comments ... like that Self
Portrait is one of the
> least emotional recordings he ever made
indeed, he sounds very distant ... like someone in a dream ... odd, that these
recordings were made during at a time in Dylan's life that Mr. Weberman seems
obsessed with ... and has some rather sad things to say about ...
> > Then there's the Isle of Wight Stuff. In typical style, he left the best stuff from
> > that strangest of all Dylan concerts off.
this, of course, being from a little earlier, but basically the same time
period (August '69). Could you comment more on why you call this concert the
"strangest of all" Dylan concerts?
-d
Peter Stone Brown wrote:
>
The New York sessions of
> primarily folk songs are at the top of the list of the least emotional recordings he
> ever made, while the Nashville covers which the Nashville musicians could have done in
> their sleep are minimally inspired -- check out the originals of these songs whether by
> George Jones or the Everly Brothers and ol' crooning Bob doesn't come anywhere close.
> Then there's the Isle of Wight Stuff. In typical style, he left the best stuff from
> that strangest of all Dylan concerts off.
>
> I believe Dylan when he said in Rolling Stone talking about Self Portrait, "If you have
> a lot of shit, load it up."
>
Alan Fraser
>
>On 24 Nov, Alan Fraser wrote:
><snip> It struck me when I was contributing to the thread on the Self
>Portrait out-take "Alligator Man" that no-one today thinks that for Bob
>to record this song, which he may have learned from the Greenbriar Boys,
>was in any way wrong.<snip>
>
>Am I missing something here? Are you saying that some songs should be
>off limits for Bob to perform?
No. The exact opposite. I was referring to 1970 reaction to Self
Portrait from Greil Marcus et al.
>Guess we can start a new thread on this
>subject but I can't think of any. I wouldn't particularly care to hear
>him sing "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" but it shouldn't be off
>limits & I'm sure I'd buy it anyway.
I probably would too. A Christmas album is _way_ overdue :-).
Alan
Dante
concert. Just listen to his voice on Idiot Wind, Shelter.. Ah well - it's
just so great. This is a very inspired moment, tha band showing how it can
be done on a great day. Compare this to the utterly uninspired Dylan & The
Dead live album.
/dante
Mark Henteleff wrote in message <73fe0g$7...@news.Hawaii.Edu>...
>In article <73evje$gk2$1...@netnews.upenn.edu>,
>Seth Kulick <sku...@muzungu.cis.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>In article <365AF7...@erols.com>,
>>Peter Stone Brown <pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>>>Sweet Melinda wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>This is taking things way too far. Self Portrait is one of the least
significant albums
>>>of Dylan's career. The performances for the most part are half-hearted
(with a couple
>>>of exceptions) and sloppy. It is Dylan at his most mindless which was
kind of the
>>>point. I always considered this Dylan to eat corn flakes to. The New
York sessions of
>>
Richard
old could learn the definitive version of Frosty the Snowman for a school
presentation. Gene does Jingle Bells, Sleigh Ride, Here Comes Santa Clause
and Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. How I wish I had a Bob record with these
selections. But Rudolph Ran over Grandma; I'll take a pass. (Cool song
though). I just wish that Bob would have recorded them during his Blood on
the track or Freewheel'n sessions and not the Self Portrait sessions; know
what I mean?
Alan Fraser wrote in message <73ge27$8...@drn.newsguy.com>...
Matthew & Mieko Zuckerman
><snip> It struck me when I was contributing to the thread on the Self
>Portrait out-take "Alligator Man" that no-one today thinks that for Bob
>to record this song, which he may have learned from the Greenbriar Boys,
>was in any way wrong.<snip>
Bobby Massey <mas...@hotmail.com> replied:
>Am I missing something here? Are you saying that some songs should be
>off limits for Bob to perform? Guess we can start a new thread on this
>subject but I can't think of any. I wouldn't particularly care to hear
>him sing "Grandma Got Run Over By a Reindeer" but it shouldn't be off
>limits & I'm sure I'd buy it anyway.
The point Alan was making was that times have changed, and for the better.
At one time, many people would have thought (and did) that for Dylan to
record a certain song (an Elvis song, a Sinatra song, a country song, etc.)
was wrong. Apart from a few grouches who grouched about Froggie Went
A-Courtin', people seem a little less blinkered these days.
Matthew
Patricia Jungwirth
>From: Sweet Melinda <sweetm...@DOOR13.COM>
>Alan Fraser wrote:
>
>> You're a very gracious person, Melinda, especially considering that Greil
>> Marcus' review in Rolling Stone was titled "What is this shit?"! It's a
>> measure of Bob's greatness that even though for him to put this out was
>> at the time considered unacceptable, with hindsight we are able to see
>> the album in context and appreciate it for its own worth, as a celebration
>> of his roots, his influences, and fun.
>Seriously though, has our friend Bob ever done anything "acceptable?" That's
>what I like about him.
"ever done the opposite of what the experts say?"
agreed, but there is more to like on Self Portrait than merely contrariness
- Copper Kettle, Days of 49 for starters...
Tricia
-------------------"I wish I was on some Australian mountain range
I got no reason to be there but
I imagine it would be some kinda change... "
-----------------------------------------------Bob Dylan, 'Outlaw Blues'
------------------------------------------------------------January 1965
***tric...@aardvark.apana.org.au
Blonde On Blonde: Bob Dylan in Melbourne, 1966:
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/5581/
Patricia Jungwirth
>From: Mark Henteleff <ma...@PBRC.HAWAII.EDU>
>C'mon, people, Dylan himself stated that the album was thrown together
>purely for contractual reasons.
>Self-Portrait (of the artist in a very cynical state) should have
>been the title. The worst thing Bob ever put out....right down
>there with Hard Rain and Under the Red Sky...and much worse than
>those, as bad as those are.
c'mon now, surely you jest
Hard Rain is among the _best_
Zuke
Patricia Jungwirth <tric...@aardvark.apana.org.au> wrote:
>>Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:58:35 GMT
>>From: Sweet Melinda <sweetm...@DOOR13.COM>
>>Alan Fraser wrote:
>>
>>> You're a very gracious person, Melinda, especially considering that Greil
>>> Marcus' review in Rolling Stone was titled "What is this shit?"! It's a
>>> measure of Bob's greatness that even though for him to put this out was
>>> at the time considered unacceptable, with hindsight we are able to see
>>> the album in context and appreciate it for its own worth, as a celebration
>>> of his roots, his influences, and fun.
>
>>Seriously though, has our friend Bob ever done anything "acceptable?" That's
>>what I like about him.
>
>"ever done the opposite of what the experts say?"
>
>agreed, but there is more to like on Self Portrait than merely contrariness
>- Copper Kettle, Days of 49 for starters...
>
I'm usually the one arguing in favor of Bob's covers but "Copper Kettle" doesn't
cut it for me. It's the only song I can recall him taking a big swing and
missing. He's slowed it down way too much for me but I can see other people
liking it.
It's funny in that this sounds like an old song but it was actually written for
a broadway play in the 40's or 50's.
I love the song, just not Dylan's treatment here.
Later,
Zuke
--
You are in control until you are out of control.
Zuke
Patricia Jungwirth <tric...@aardvark.apana.org.au> wrote:
>>From: Mark Henteleff <ma...@PBRC.HAWAII.EDU>
>
>>C'mon, people, Dylan himself stated that the album was thrown together
>>purely for contractual reasons.
>>Self-Portrait (of the artist in a very cynical state) should have
>>been the title. The worst thing Bob ever put out....right down
>>there with Hard Rain and Under the Red Sky...and much worse than
>>those, as bad as those are.
>
>c'mon now, surely you jest
>Hard Rain is among the _best_
>
>Tricia
>
Amen to this! I just wish it was a double record.
And one of my favorites on the bobdylan.com is the one off
of Red Sky. I've got Red Sky on vinyl and, as a consequence, don't listen
to it too much but it might see a resurrection someday like "Knocked out
Loaded" which sat abandoned and unloved on the record shelf for many seasons.
Speaking of vinyl, it is nice to be able to flip your CD into computer, boombox,
or whatever to listen but I do miss the packaging of vinyl. When I see anybody
advertise a nice CD booklet with the CD I have to laugh. I have yet to see a
nice CD booklet, they are all so small or tall and thin. The other night I got
out my booklet to Bootleg 1,2,3 and they have a nice picture of Bob, Suze and
a cafe owner with Suze stapled right in the middle so she is invisible. As I
was leafing through the booklet reading about the songs, the entire booklet
popped right apart.
Contrast this is later that same day when I put a John Coltrane Impulse album on
to listen to his song "After the Rain". This album must be 40 years old, yet
it was still in perfect shape, complete with the inner sleave which had all types
of great pictures of other Impulse albums from Ray Charles, Charles Mingus and
Art Blakey. I sat for many minutes enjoying the music while looking at these
little pictures, ruminating on what a great time in music that period was.
Richard
of Bob in his first coffee house gig right here in Saratoga, NY. Bob would
sometimes stop by when he played in the large venue (the Performing Arts
Center), years later. It is still going, the oldest still functioning place
to hear live performances of its type. Lena was a one of a kind individual.
Too bad there is no known tape of Bob's performance that day. Arlo and a few
others are in an effort to raise funds so the owners of the Cafe can
purchase the building.
Pete Oppel
writes:
<< Bob once said he did Self-Portrait to cool things down and to, in a way,
scare of his audience to allow him to start things over, a fresh start,
without expactations from audience and critics >>
Bob told me in 1978 that he was furious that CBS even released "Self
Portrait," that most of the songs were tunes did for fun (or to make fun of)
in the studio but was never meant for public consumption; that CBS added a
bunch of background singers and instrumentation to the recordings without his
knowledge and released it. That, he said, was the main reason he decided to
leave CBS and sign with Geffen.
John Howells
<Dante wrote:
<>Bob once said he did Self-Portrait to cool things down and to, in a way,
<>scare of his audience to allow him to start things over, a fresh start,
<>without expactations from audience and critics. This doesn't mean, however,
<>that it's a bad album.
<I'd also say it doesn't mean we should begin taking Bob at his word (given, I
<believe, with 20-20 hindsight). Count me among the SP (Not to mention Dylan-A
<Fool Such as I) lovers; perhaps The Boxer most of all.
Self Portrait has always fascinated me, so I put together an article
that takes eye-witness reports and tries to sort things out. It's a
work in progress:
http://www.punkhart.com/dylan/reviews/self_portrait.html
--
John Howells
how...@bigfoot.com
http://www.punkhart.com
Sweet Melinda
> "ever done the opposite of what the experts say?"
>
> agreed, but there is more to like on Self Portrait than merely contrariness
> - Copper Kettle, Days of 49 for starters...
Absolutely! I love Self Portrait. The country songs send a chill down my spine.
Sweet Melinda
> His version of the Boxer has gotta
> be a shot at Simon....an OK song rendered completely lifeless to
> the extent of showing how lyrically hokey the song really is.
Okay. I must take issue with this. Dylan's version of The Boxer was not great
and probably intentionally so, but it's a great song! I don't know what you
mean by "lyrically hokey" but I don't think you know what you're talking about personally.
Paul Simon is a brilliant writer and musician and The Boxer is a brilliant
song. Pay attention the next time you hear it.
> Self-Portrait (of the artist in a very cynical state) should have
> been the title. The worst thing Bob ever put out....right down
> there with Hard Rain and Under the Red Sky...and much worse than
> those, as bad as those are.
And there's not a thing wrong with Hard Rain. I like that album quite a lot.
Sam
>I'll defend Hard Rain again. I say, it's as good as the '66 Free Trade Hall
>concert. Just listen to his voice on Idiot Wind, Shelter.. Ah well - it's
>just so great. This is a very inspired moment, tha band showing how it can
>be done on a great day. Compare this to the utterly uninspired Dylan & The
>Dead live album.
>
Agreed. Hard Rain is fun!
Sam
--
"Like it was written in my soul from me to you"
Bob Dylan
Peter Stone Brown
>
>
>
> I'm usually the one arguing in favor of Bob's covers but "Copper Kettle" doesn't
> cut it for me. It's the only song I can recall him taking a big swing and
> missing. He's slowed it down way too much for me but I can see other people
> liking it.
>
>
> I love the song, just not Dylan's treatment here.
>
I used to feel that way about the song having heard other versions first, then one day
the moon got bright and this version just clicked in. It's one of the few songs on the
album he really seems to care about, and then there's the way he starts off in something
close to the Nashville Skyline voice and ends up in well, one of the other voices.
Richard
play, and sang those songs in that style, I would have a smile on my face
that would not end. (Bob, feel free to e-mail me for my address if you are
interested; I'm not that far from Woodstock. But see if you could add Frosty
the Snowman to the gig to show my 7 year old how it is done).
Orphie wrote in message <3657D9CD...@mwonline.net>...
>i have to admit to having a love hate relationship with this collection.
when i
>first bought this album 20 years ago i played maybe twice and hated it. i
decided
>to purchase it on cd to complete my dylan collection and really started
liking the
>disk quite a bit.
>
Peter Stone Brown
>
> When I see anybody
> advertise a nice CD booklet with the CD I have to laugh.
Not to mention the whole feel of holding an album cover in your hand while you listen
especially the first 10 times or so. CD booklet just ain't the same.
Alan Fraser
<pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>Zuke wrote:
>>
>> When I see anybody
>> advertise a nice CD booklet with the CD I have to laugh.
>
>
>Not to mention the whole feel of holding an album cover in your hand while you listen
>especially the first 10 times or so. CD booklet just ain't the same.
I remember buying the White Mansions album on vinyl, but the cassette
version came in a blister pack with the LP cover and booklet. That was
when I thought - why don't they just pack a CD in a small clear pocket
in the middle of an album sleeve, and give us the 12" artwork and
booklet? Every time I raise this idea of mine, everybody I speak to
agrees with me - we all think jewel cases are crap. Too space-wasting
to store, albums can be stored hundreds on a shelf.
Alan
Eric Bloom
"...as worse as HARD RAIN..."
Get a clue.
CELEBRATING ART AS A WAY OF LIFE!
Bob Meyer
wrote:
> Zuke wrote:
> >
> > When I see anybody
> > advertise a nice CD booklet with the CD I have to laugh.
>
>
> Not to mention the whole feel of holding an album cover in your hand
while you listen
> especially the first 10 times or so. CD booklet just ain't the same.
Along with large cover art, booklets, etc.
I miss actually "seeing" the songs on the vinyl.
--
Bob Meyer
dyl...@buffnet.net
Eric Bloom
hearing Bob (my all-time musical and artistic mentor) defend SELF
PORTRAIT to Alan J. Weberschlub. Bob: "...there are more'dn
two. I'll say that! I'll still say there are more'dn two!" In response
to Weberleach saying there are only two good songs on the whole album;
DAYS OF 49 and KOPPER KETTLE.
There's a type of Bob admirerer that listens and appreciates a Bob album
not only for the likability of the material but because Bob is Picasso,
and WHATEVER he does is a vitally important part of the whole. Geez,
there are people who can endlessly deride this album, but then again
there are people who actually think HARD RAIN sucks. Go figure........
"...the bloomin' bright star of Bright Isle..."
Rontem
the worst three releases was : Saved, Self Portrait and Pat Garrett and Billy
the Kid.
A1pump
In article <365B80...@erols.com>, Peter Stone Brown <pet...@erols.com>
writes:
>However it is still among his least significant and I think he put it
>out to see just how many fans he could alienate, along with a bunch of
>business reasons.
I always felt that he put Self Portrait out to lose fans. At the time he was
worshipped as a god. Was being hounded by god knows how many little webbermans
who
demanded that he not only produce great art but tell them what to think, how to
act,
what politics to support and of course tell them the meaning of life.
The album was the first time Dylan disappointed me. After the albums that
preceded
it, it was quite a letdown. Ranks with Springsteen's live album as most
disappointing. My expectations were extremely high for both but I think I'll
forgive
them. ;-)
Zuke
Alan Fraser <alan....@cwcom.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 14:31:01 -0500, Peter Stone Brown
><pet...@erols.com> wrote:
>
>>Zuke wrote:
>>>
>>> When I see anybody
>>> advertise a nice CD booklet with the CD I have to laugh.
>>
>>
>>Not to mention the whole feel of holding an album cover in your hand while you listen
>>especially the first 10 times or so. CD booklet just ain't the same.
>
>version came in a blister pack with the LP cover and booklet. That was
>when I thought - why don't they just pack a CD in a small clear pocket
>in the middle of an album sleeve, and give us the 12" artwork and
>booklet? Every time I raise this idea of mine, everybody I speak to
>agrees with me - we all think jewel cases are crap. Too space-wasting
>to store, albums can be stored hundreds on a shelf.
>
>Alan
Excellant suggestion and something I've questioned myself. The glass
case is pretty useless too.
Well, posting that original message must have brought me some luck
today as I was in the used record section of the Thrift shop I came
upon King Records 826, James Brown 'Live At the Apollo'. I live
in Cincinnati and even here you don't see too many King Records.
Like the man said about buying land, "they aren't making any more of it".
Same with King records though I think Fantasy now has the line.
It's amazing how few Dylan albums I see in these places. ONly two
theories on that, Dylan fans are too attached to their albums or
Dylan fans never move (when most albums are tossed out!).
Jim Sands
--
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
* The weight of this sad time | Jim Sands *
* we must obey. | #4 - 1245 E. Pender St. *
* To speak what we feel, | Vancouver, B.C. V6A 1W7 *
* not what we ought | (604)251.1956 *
* to say. | jims...@vcn.bc.ca *
* -W. Shakespeare (King Lear)| *
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Richard
Jf365397
everyonce in awhile he influences the immortal Bob Dylan. So I think that
especailly around this time of year we should all be thankful that Bob ever
"got a harmonica job, begun to play." We would be lucky if he only wrote one
song, let alone the hundreds that he has. God Bless Bob Dylan,
joshua
Christopher Brent Falls
never put it among his very best work, but i find myself putting it into the
CD player quite a bit, far more than '& the Dead' or 'Budokan' It's
different, violently so,...but that is why I like it...
Massey, Bobby SGM
throw in my 2 cents worth on Self Portrait.
IMO, it's everything everyone has said it is, both good & bad. Maybe I took
the title a little to literally, but I accepted it then & now at face value,
i.e. a self-portrait. Is there any other Dylan album where you can get such
a diversity of music? This album contains English & American traditional
folk, country, rock, pop, tin pan alley, and blues songs. I didn't know the
Everly Brothers had such an influence on Bob, but why else would he put at
least 3 songs they'd recorded on one album? I would have preferred to have
heard a Marcels-style Blue Moon (I think Bob could pull it off) but I can't
decide if this is one is Everly or Elvis style. Most of us hadn't heard a
Bob version of Quinn until this came out; remember Basement Tapes wouldn't
be released for a few more years. The only live song officially released
before this album had been the B-side of a single & yet here we get 3 live
ones. My only recording of Living the Blues until this point was the one I
taped off Johnny Cash's tv show. Was The Boxer a jab at Paul Simon & if so,
why did Bob go to the trouble of singing the song twice? Was he attempting
to imitate S&G or the Everlys with the overdub? Was his recording of The
Boxer & Early Mornin' Rain paying notice to some contemporary
singer-songwriters (both of whom had recorded Dylan material previously)?.
For the completists, he gives us 2 takes of Alberta & Sadie; I believe the
only other time he's done this is Forever Young. And I had to assume that
Bob grew fond of Sadie while hanging around Johnny Cash, who'd just released
that song under a different title a year or so earlier. Did Bob consider
himself the Minstrel Boy? This was also the 2d album in a row in which he
included an instrumental. And of course, one of the catchiest songs Bob
ever wrote & one which everyone can remember ALL the words to: All the
Tired Horses.
All this said, I think what you get with Self Portrait is a glimpse of the
man not seen on any other album; unfortunately no touch-ups were done on the
portrait; you get warts & all. Still it seems a natural bridge from
Nashville Skyline to New Morning.
(And if he hadn't released it, someone today would be selling a bootleg
called "Nashville Morning" & we'd be praising the vocals & phrasing &
wondering why Bob kept this in the can)
David Glidden
and/or never move,,,In my hometown second-
hand shop I find 5 KC & The Sunshine Band albums for every one of
Dylan's.......of course those are a buck and Bob's are 10!