norwegian wood

[Jim Goldman]

I am neither saying that it was copied, nor was it adapted. All I am saying
is that it seems to me that they are similar. If Dylan had used the song
Norwegian Wood as an inspiration for Fourth Time Around, I don't know. All
I'm saying is that the Beatles were ahead on Dylan on the idea for that.
That's all...
I am saying this in contrast, for instance, with the songs Girl of North
Country, by Dylan, and Scarborough Fair, by Simon and Garfunkel, which,
according to Robert Shelton, come from the same source of inspiration... (Or
the album Another Side of Bob Dylan stands, in my mind anyway, as a precursor
to Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band...)

[Mike Kahn]

well scarbourough fair is obviuosly inspired by girl from north
couuntry. S&G even say a direct quote from girl, "remember her to one
who lives there, for she once was a good freind of mine"

MJK

[John R. Weikart]

In article
<Pine.A32.3.91.950408...@blue.UnivNorthCo.EDU> Mike

Kahn, kahn...@BLUE.UNIVNORTHCO.EDU writes:
>well scarbourough fair is obviuosly inspired by girl from north
>couuntry. S&G even say a direct quote from girl, "remember her to one
>who lives there, for she once was a good freind of mine"

Heh. Check the label of your Simon & Garfunkel (attorneys at law) album.
It is arranged by them but is in fact an old folk song combined with
another called Canticle. Dylan acyually based his Girl From the North
Country on Scarbrough (sp?) Fair. And If You See Her, Say Hello
obviously draws to an extent from the same source as well.

-John Weikart

[Bllurrr]

Well since I started this whole mess, why not add to it. The report that
Scarborough Fair is an old folk song is correct, Simon and Garfunkle were
not the first to do it, and it is probably that Dylan took his inspiration
from this song.

Stu

[William Routhier]

Jim Goldman (JimG...@AOL.COM) wrote:
: I am neither saying that it was copied, nor was it adapted. All I am saying
: is that it seems to me that they are similar. If Dylan had used the song
: Norwegian Wood as an inspiration for Fourth Time Around, I don't know. All
: I'm saying is that the Beatles were ahead on Dylan on the idea for that.
: That's all...
: I am saying this in contrast, for instance, with the songs Girl of North
: Country, by Dylan, and Scarborough Fair, by Simon and Garfunkel, which,
: according to Robert Shelton, come from the same source of inspiration... (Or
: the album Another Side of Bob Dylan stands, in my mind anyway, as a precursor
: to Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band...)

Well, the story goes, Bob did write Fourth Time Around in
response to Norweigan Wood. The melodies are indeed similar, they both
have descending lines. Both songs are in 6/8 time, and both have the
she/I thing in the beginning of some of the lyric lines. Dylan wrote it
supposedly as a competitive thing, something that said, OK, Lennon, you
wrote this good song, I can top it. Bob was very edgy about his place at
the top around that time. In England, he told the Stones that he could
write Satisfaction, but they could never write Tamborine Man. Fairly
nasty things, like that, he'd say to people. Could have been the drugs
or just the general rush of heavy duty stardom.
But as far as who wrote what first, The Beatles, then Bob, for
reasons stated.

Bill (I gallantly handed her my very last stick of gum) Routhier

[Keith T Amano]

I see it as a plain and simple parody. Not copied, not adapted, just
parodied.

Keith

[Will Dockery]

Jim Goldman wrote:
>
> I am neither saying that it was copied, nor was it adapted. All I am saying
> is that it seems to me that they are similar. If Dylan had used the song
> Norwegian Wood as an inspiration for Fourth Time Around, I don't know. All
> I'm saying is that the Beatles were ahead on Dylan on the idea for that.
> That's all...
> I am saying this in contrast, for instance, with the songs Girl of North
> Country, by Dylan, and Scarborough Fair, by Simon and Garfunkel, which,
> according to Robert Shelton, come from the same source of inspiration... (Or
> the album Another Side of Bob Dylan stands, in my mind anyway, as a precursor
> to Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band...)

Wow, I never heard of "Another Side" having anything to do with "Sgt. Pepper", does anyone have an idea of what Jim is thinking, here?

[Rick Fisher]

Absolutely. Just like "Clothes Line Saga" is a parody of "Ode To Billie Joe".

[Will Dockery]

That really does just about say it all.

[Will Dockery]

On Sunday, April 19, 1998 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-4, Patricia Jungwirth wrote:
> >Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 20:00:06 +1000
> >From: Patrick C Whitman <neck...@B022.AONE.NET.AU>
> >Subject: Norwegian Wood vs 4th Time Around
> >
> >Am I trippin', or are these a pair of bookends?
> >MOTTO _Never sleep with someone you think might be crazy
>
> Fourth Time Around was written in response to hearing 'Norwegian Wood' -
> same subject. Lennon comments on his paranoia regarding Dylan's
> "competetiveness" (after hearing 4th Timeround) in the Jann Wenner interview
> published as "Lennon Remembers"
>
> Tricia

And then a few years later Lennon sent up Serve Somebody with Serve Yourself.

> -------------------"I wish I was on some Australian mountain range
> I got no reason to be there but
> I imagine it would be some kinda change... "
> -----------------------------------------------Bob Dylan, 'Outlaw Blues'
> ------------------------------------------------------------January 1965
>
>
> ***tric...@aardvark.apana.org.au
> Blonde On Blonde: Bob Dylan in Melbourne, 1966:
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/5581/

[luisb...@aol.com]

This thread is over 20 years old.

[Will Dockery]

And still very relevant, who ever would have guessed that Dylan's music would be timeless?

:)

[Stephan Pickering]

Shalom & Boker tov...there were 20 takes on 14 February 1966...the last take was overdubbed 16 June 1966 with Charlie McCoy on ?Farfisa ?harpsichord ?harmonium, and Ken Buttrey on drums...the composition, like 'Norwegian Wood', focus on Maureen Cleave (known to both Lennon and Shabtai/'Bob'). Throughout 1966, it was a chilling conjuration (he would come close to it again 26 November 1975) being told to someone who knew both Lennon and Ms Cleave: 'picture of you in your wheelchair that leaned up against her Jamaican rum'. The final take (on initial stereo pressings and the Canadian/French mono pressings) has the June 1966 overdub, this lacking on all later pressings. It is presumed the 16 June 1966 original tape is lost, but can be heard as earlier pressings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
STEPHAN PICKERING / חפץ ח"ם בן אברהם
Torah אלילה Yehu'di Apikores / Philologia Kabbalistica Speculativa Researcher
לחיות זמן רב ולשגשג

THE KABBALAH FRACTALS PROJECT

[Stephan Pickering]

Roger Ford in London has, for sometime, been sorting through the variations of BLONDE ON BLONDE vinyl versions. As a postscript to my note here, Mr Ford parallels my independent conclusion that the album was released 27 June 1966, 11 days after the Nashville overdub session for '4th Time Around'. The first mono pressings reached Canada, which used the first generation of assembled mono mixdown tapes (as Mr Ford notes). The first US mono version has a different mix of '4th Time Around', lacking the 'keyboards' heard on the Canadian version.

[Will Dockery]

This is fascinating information about Maureen Cleave, she sure seems to have gotten around.

What's all that about the "wheelchair" and "crutch"? Sort of like how McCartney claimed in Lennon's fantasy he burned the place down?