Dr. Demento speaks up about his business

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Tim Ryan

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Oct 6, 2007, 3:03:15 PM10/6/07
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This is now on the front page of www.DrDemento.com.
It is being presented here as newsworthy and off interest to our
members. If you have a demento on-line membership and access to his
forum, you may want to also post about this in that forum. This is also
being posted in the main forum of www.TheMadMusicArchive.com.
-Tim

-----
A note from Dr. Demento...

Recently a few people have written scathing online denunciations of
Talonian Productions, the company that produces and distributes the Dr.
Demento Show.

Talonian is not what some uniformed denouncers have claimed. Talonian
Productions is wholly owned by myself. Talonian currently employs a
manager, Arthyr Chadbourne, and a webmaster.

For many years the show was supported by national advertisers. The fees
they paid supported the entire budget of the show and enabled me to make
a living. That's the way radio is supposed to work.

In the past few years advertiser support for the show has evaporated.
I've heard various explanations of this, but the most sensible one seems
to be that our listenership is spread too thinly among various
demographic groups. Advertisers prefer programming that appeals to
particular segments (such as women aged 18-34 or men 30-45) so that they
can reach listeners prepared to buy their products in a more efficient
manner. I was always proud that the show appealed to entire families,
but that is starting to look like more of a curse than a blessing.

Therefore, though we still have some fine stations carrying the show, we
are not making enough from radio to support it.

For that reason, we decided to launch a fee-based Internet service. We
felt this offered a chance for the show to become self-supporting once
again, and in addition made it possible for people in areas not served
by one of our radio affiliates (which is most of the country, alas) to
hear the show.

Many listeners have been happy with this service. Others have
complained, mostly to such forums as rec.music.dementia. Most often,
they are unhappy that our Internet streams are not free of charge. It
may be true, as the old song said, that "the best things in life are
free"...but we do have to pay royalties to the creators of the songs we
play, and we also have to pay for the website's own operation...and I do
have to make a living somehow. Therefore, we charge *a very modest fee
for the streaming -- a rate we feel is fair to ourselves and our
audience.

Several of the show's radio affiliates stream their own programming,
free of charge (the expense is defrayed by advertising). Since we don't
share in the stations' ad revenue, we have asked them to discontinue
their streams while our show is on. Most stations have been very
understanding about this.

I have loved doing this show for 37 years, and have felt incredibly
lucky to have made a living from something I love. However, unless the
show's financial situation changes soon I will be unable to continue the
show much longer.

Thank you for your understanding and support!

-Dr. Demento


Tim Ryan

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Oct 6, 2007, 3:09:53 PM10/6/07
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The first thing that I will say is that this *does* indeed look like
Barry's writing. Other letters posted on his website in the past, had,
in my opion, looked like they may have been written by his manager for
him to sign.

-Tim

"Tim Ryan" <> wrote ...


> This is now on the front page of www.DrDemento.com.

...


> -Tim
>
> -----
> A note from Dr. Demento...
>

...

John Lorentz

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Oct 6, 2007, 5:11:33 PM10/6/07
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On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 15:03:15 -0400, "Tim Ryan"
<TimRyanA...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:

>-----
>A note from Dr. Demento...

...

>
>I have loved doing this show for 37 years, and have felt incredibly
>lucky to have made a living from something I love. However, unless the
>show's financial situation changes soon I will be unable to continue the
>show much longer.

I certainly can't argue with that. The show needs to have some kind
of revenue coming in to pay, at the very least, for the licensing
fees. There's no doubt that Barry's loved doing to show all these
years, but he can't be expected to pay all the costs himself so that
we get the music at no cost. If things don't change for him and the
show sometime soon, I expect it'll be off the airways completely. The
advertiser-supported business model has imploded--and that's a shame.
Barry's devoted most of his life to the show, and it's certainly meant
a lot to me over the years.

If I were working, instead of chronically unemployed for the last
couple of years, I'd happily pay to hear the show. ($9.95 a month to
hear the shows at 96kpbs would be a very reasonable price--I might
even be OK with $14.95 a month.) I think it's absurd that some folks
are complaining that Talonian won't give the show away.

Unfortunately, (the lack of) money is definitely a major problem for
us right now. I'll go back to figuring out a way to improve the
reception from our "local" station (KLOO in Corvallis, 80 miles away
from our house in Portland). Our reception used to be pretty good,
but dropped greatly in quality about a year ago...and I can only
filter out some of the static with Goldwave. But at least KLOO has
continued to carry the show each and every week, for more than seven
years now.

--
John Lorentz (1100 shows and counting...)


peterpuck9

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Oct 6, 2007, 5:44:16 PM10/6/07
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On Oct 6, 5:11 pm, John Lorentz <jlore...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 15:03:15 -0400, "Tim Ryan"
>

I don't mind paying either. My issue is portability. I need to be able
to download the show and play it on my iPod when I want to hear it, as
I have said numerous times.

John Lorentz

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Oct 6, 2007, 8:19:47 PM10/6/07
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On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:44:16 -0700, peterpuck9
<peter...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>I don't mind paying either. My issue is portability. I need to be able
>to download the show and play it on my iPod when I want to hear it, as
>I have said numerous times.

There are a large number of programs that will let someone record
streaming audio and convert it to MP3 files. Goldwave (which what I
use to edit audio files) will handle that with no problem, and I think
that are some free software options what will handle the task also
(but I've been happy with Goldwave, which I originally bought to
handle the processing of the 400+ cassette tapes of Dr D shows that I
used to have--they're all on CD-ROMs as MP3 files now).

--
John

D a v i d T a n n y

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Oct 6, 2007, 10:16:56 PM10/6/07
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This reply was posted by Stavro288

I don't have a reply yet, but here's his...

http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/thread.aspx?TopicID=2483

Seems like he looks in on this site from time to time. And I'm glad that
he confirmed my assertion that Talonian is, indeed, his corporate self,
taking a bit of 'mystery' out of it all.

As a 'informed denouncer', few understand better than me the concept of
getting older and then having the revenue that fed one's livelihood
vanish for explainable but no less nasty reasons. As 'Talonian', he has
a manager and a webmaster. Didn't they tell him the net was a way to
bring his show to everybody who couldn't hear it on radio- a vast new
market that should be seen as an opportunity to find new fans and
reestablish contact with old ones (like me) who lost the show because of
greedy corporate station owners?

There were piles of cash to be made if it was done correctly. If he had
a well designed and user friendly site, hordes of new 'dementoids' would
descend on it and buy all the products he could possibly think of
selling- including a reliable high quality stream of the show. This
would solve the problem of revenue loss elsewhere. How difficult would
it have been to set up such a site if he already had qualified people to
do it? Not very, I expect. Since it was done so badly, it may have been
his people and not us who were 'uninformed'.

Instead of seeing the internet as an opportunity for more revenue, he
saw it as a threat to the revenue that remained, turned on his fanbase
by attacking sites like this one, which began as a 'tribute' site and
eliminating the streams of his show either with threatened legal action
or by conveniently 'forgetting' to provide new shows to stations that
streamed it. A rather unethical business practice, if ever there was
one. All this bad faith he was generating combined with what many see as
poor service on his site has brought about the mess he's in now.

The Doctor Demento Show need not end. A few gestures of good will such
as making peace with sites like this, allowing streaming again so a
whole lot of fans like me can hear it and a reworking of his site-
including the sale of a high quality stream or better yet, a podcast of
the show (192kbps or more) could make it all commercially viable for
years to come. He need only listen to his fans instead of...whoever he's
listening to now, make a few adjustments and things will be fine again.
It's something any good 'corporation' would do.

peterpuck9

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Oct 7, 2007, 12:11:22 AM10/7/07
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On Oct 6, 8:19 pm, John Lorentz <jlore...@spiritone.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:44:16 -0700, peterpuck9
>

Interesting......Thanks.......Pete

goo...@josephsons.org

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Oct 7, 2007, 7:02:06 AM10/7/07
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On Oct 6, 1:03 pm, "Tim Ryan" <TimRyanAA-comc...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> This is now on the front page ofwww.DrDemento.com.

> In the past few years advertiser support for the show has evaporated.

> Therefore, though we still have some fine stations carrying the show, we


> are not making enough from radio to support it.
>
> For that reason, we decided to launch a fee-based Internet service. We

> -Dr. Demento

I think that the Dr. Demento show could become a fee-based podcast.
That is the current model of internet broadcasting.
I just feel that the $2 per show may be a bit too expensive.
I've never subscribed to a pay-podcast before, but what _is_ a typical
fee for one?

Russ josephson

Tester

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Oct 7, 2007, 7:36:26 AM10/7/07
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On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:02:06 -0700, goo...@josephsons.org wrote:

>I think that the Dr. Demento show could become a fee-based podcast.
>That is the current model of internet broadcasting.

Is it to be a podcast or audio on demand?

There's a difference between audio on demand and download and listen.
I notice that in some cases the BBC has audio on demand with the
comedy program's music and podcasts with the music removed.

One may be able to record AOD either by using something like Total
Recorder which records stuff going out to the sound card or by using a
packet sniffer to get the streaming URL and then using a program which
can download using the various streaming mechanisms (e.g. Mass
Downloader or NetTransfer)

It appears that Real Player is cacheing its streams somewhere (e.g. if
you hit pause on an AOD file you may have no network activity when you
are listening again) but I'm not sure how one can save the cache. I
would guess that Real has tried to make this difficult.


BathTub

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Oct 7, 2007, 10:12:16 AM10/7/07
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On Oct 7, 10:44 am, peterpuck9 <peterch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I don't mind paying either. My issue is portability. I need to be able
> to download the show and play it on my iPod when I want to hear it, as
> I have said numerous times.

I didn't realise it was such an issue for many people, I have always
directly saved the streams to mp3 no conversion required. You get an
m3u which points to the actual mp3.

emio...@djparticle.com

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Oct 7, 2007, 1:25:52 PM10/7/07
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On Oct 7, 6:02 am, goo...@josephsons.org wrote:
> I think that the Dr. Demento show could become a fee-based podcast.
> That is the current model of internet broadcasting.
> I just feel that the $2 per show may be a bit too expensive.
> I've never subscribed to a pay-podcast before, but what _is_ a typical
> fee for one?

$2 per show in and of itself is not that expensive for a 2-hour show.

It's the $2 per show for 24kpbs quality, and the difficulties in
downloading it, that I take issue with.

Now if the podcast version was 128k, that seems more reasonable. That
would be approx. 110MB, which is reasonable with today's broadband
speeds.
Hell, even 96k wouldn't be bad.


...though I still say that the reason why advertising is drying up is
because of the "no stream" policy and the fact that many stations take
issue with that. CBS Radio (back when they were Westwood One) ran
into that issue a few years back, and their shows suffered and started
hemmoraging affiliates because of it (case in point Tom Leykis -- I
was listening to that show religiously back then, and I had a bit of
inside info, which is how I noticed the issue at that time). Now that
CBS Radio is allowing streaming again, they've rebounded.

Advertisers like internet exposure! If the show were to allow
streaming, and pitched to advertisers as "potentially worldwide
exposure" for their ads regardless of demographic, then advertisers
should be busting down Talonian/Dr. D's doors to get in!

--Emi/DJP


spwhe...@gmail.com

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Oct 7, 2007, 2:51:30 PM10/7/07
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This was very informative. Thanks for passing it on.

I wonder how many people still are members of his fan club?
Periwinkle

Jason K

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Oct 7, 2007, 4:37:49 PM10/7/07
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On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 15:03:15 -0400, "Tim Ryan"
<TimRyanA...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:

>Many listeners have been happy with this service. Others have
>complained, mostly to such forums as rec.music.dementia. Most often,
>they are unhappy that our Internet streams are not free of charge. It
>may be true, as the old song said, that "the best things in life are
>free"...but we do have to pay royalties to the creators of the songs we
>play, and we also have to pay for the website's own operation...

I am not 100% sure of my understanding of thsi... which is why I'm
asking here to anyone that might have an answer.

Isn't it true that they are only paying royalties because they are
streaming the shows themselves from their site??

In other words, prior to the audio streaming from drdemento.com, the
show itself wasn't paying royalties to the creators of the songs,
right? The stations themselves paid ASCAP/BMI fees and the show paid
nothing, right? That is my understanding as to how syndicated shows
work. There wouldn't be a double payment being made.

>Several of the show's radio affiliates stream their own programming,
>free of charge (the expense is defrayed by advertising). Since we don't
>share in the stations' ad revenue, we have asked them to discontinue
>their streams while our show is on. Most stations have been very
>understanding about this.

The show does not receive sharing of revenue from ad sales on AM/FM
either. No syndicators do. The show receives a fee for broadcast which
should, in my opinion, cover all forms of simultaneous broadcast. A
syndicator wouldn't tell a local TV station that they can't simulcast
a program on cable television or Directv either and could only show a
program on over-the-air antenna based television. It's the same thing.
Looking forward, the Dr. D show could could have a new home on HDRadio
with it's eclectic niche formats but not with a lot of restrictions.

That doesn't give the station the right to podcast or replay the show
at other times online outside of the broadcast window, and that right
should be reserved for the shows creator and website. Likewise, other
bonuses could be offered to listeners to get more people to purchase
shows from the website. Maybe the shows on radio would continue to be
2 hours long, but maybe the shows on the Dr. D site would be a little
longer and contain some extra material that radio listeners didn't get
to hear. The show could get creative to find ways to get money from
listeners that didn't involve silencing stations from providing the
show online to listeners.

>I have loved doing this show for 37 years, and have felt incredibly
>lucky to have made a living from something I love. However, unless the
>show's financial situation changes soon I will be unable to continue the
>show much longer.

The show itself is great and very unique.

The show really needs a syndicator so Dr. D can continue to focus on
creating a great show and the syndicator can focus on ways to getting
the show to grow and be successful (instead of annoying affiliates
with streaming issues and such). Ron Stevens, who has experience in
comedy (his and his wifes creation, "Fast Food" has been featured on
the Dr. D show many times), also owns a syndicator that distributes
material - mostly comedy - to over 700 stations.

I had mentioned to Mr. Stevens via email close to a year ago that Dr.
D was no longer going to be available to stations via barter and the
shows future seemed to be in jeopardy and he seemed interested in
discussing it with Dr. D's company but I don't know if he ever
contacted anyone. He gets busy.

http://www.allstarradio.com/ is his company. Contact information is
there. It would be great if the two companies could help out each
other. From what I understand, Ron Stevens is a fan of Dr. D. The show
would definitely get more affiliates if it were available again via
barter (which would get Dr. D paid from the radio advertisers), and
the silly streaming policies were dropped. And All Star focuses on
comedy so that might know what all to do with Dr. D unlike other
syndicators like Westwood One. Maybe some fans should write All Star
too.

Just some ideas...

Jason
http://www.q1520radio.com

Tim Ryan

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Oct 7, 2007, 3:39:36 PM10/7/07
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Yes! Who is for a DrD get together at the Homestyle Cafe' in Fort
Bragg, CA? I'm sold and will stop in if I ever get out that way because
I heard about them on KOZT-internet.

-Tim
Ann Arbor, MI

<emiofbrie.com> wrote...

Wayne S Garmil

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Oct 8, 2007, 10:46:02 AM10/8/07
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I may have mis-read the letter, but wasn't there a mention there about
stations being able to pay an extra fee to stream the show? I know
some of the problems WPYX had were over them streaming the show, but I
thought WPYX said they paid an extra fee to be allowed to do so. I am
wondering if I am either misremembering things, or if Talonian tried
that and it did not work out due to not enough stations signing up for
it (although I would think any station signing up for it would make it
a win). I think a lot of people thought Dr Demento went off the air
when stations stopped streaming it. No station in New England carries
the show so the only choices I have to listen are either a streaming
radio station or the online fan club (which I am a member of).

On an irc channel, we were having a discussion last night about how Dr
Demento can better do his online fan club. One suggestion I had was
to eliminate the two level streams and do a single level stream at a
lower price, to see if that generated more purchases. I think most
people are avoiding the 40kpbs/22mHz stream because it is such low
quality, and the only way to get the higher quality stream
(96kpbs/44mHz) is to join the online fan club. I wonder if paying $3
per show for the 96/44 stream would generate more purchases than the
current pricing is doing. Or possibly have the higher cost stream be
128kpbs instead of 96kpbs (that is the quality most artists release
downloadable songs as). The goal here is to improve the profit the
online fan club is seeing and traffic to the website.

Wayne

--
_ __ _ __ | I see the girls walk by dressed in
' ) / // / / ) / | their summer clothes; I have to turn
/ / / o // __/ / __. __ __/ | my head until my darkness goes...
(_(_/ <_</_(_/ (__/ (_/|_/ (_(_/_ | -Rolling Stones, "Paint It Black"

Tim Ryan

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Oct 8, 2007, 2:21:36 PM10/8/07
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Wayne G,
Thanks for the input and reporting on what others have said
elsewhere.
We also have this converstion at The Mad Music Archive, in a couple
of items:
http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/thread.aspx?TopicID=2488
(more specific to What Would you pay) and
http://www.themadmusicarchive.com/thread.aspx?TopicID=2483
(like this rmf thread, discussion on doc's letter).

Yes, the market seems to be centering on/demanding at least a
128k-44-Stereo MP3 stream (or download) at $2 per show. More input from
others here or at TMMA welcome.

-Tim

"Wayne S Garmil" <> wrote ...
...

bandit

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Oct 8, 2007, 7:12:17 PM10/8/07
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I'm depressed now :(
Hope it works out for the Doc.
He needs a good distributor, so he won't have to do everything himself.
My life has bettered because of him and his show is the best thing I've ever
heard in 38 years of radio.

Frank

"Tim Ryan" <TimRyanA...@NOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:PJGdnTs16dW1QZra...@comcast.com...

Krellan

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Oct 11, 2007, 4:13:53 AM10/11/07
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On Oct 6, 12:03 pm, "Tim Ryan" <TimRyanAA-comc...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> A note from Dr. Demento...

Wow, what can I say.

In the words of the original Italian Job movie: "Oh. Well, there goes
the job, then."

I have given my webpage one last update, bringing the number of online
stations to zero, catching it up to reality for the last few weeks.

What's strange is that I thought Dr. Demento had a more favorable
opinion of streaming online. I've briefly talked to him in person in
the past, and he seemed cool about it then. He's signed many of his
photos in the annual memberships, even when I gave the URL of the
webpage as the text for him to sign. Guess I was wrong.

Out of respect for him as a person, I will no longer publicize
stations that are still streaming the Dr. Demento show online.

It's been 10+ years of fun!

http://www.krellan.com/demento/

Josh

Krellan

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Oct 11, 2007, 4:20:46 AM10/11/07
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That's my issue as well. In addition to portability, I want to be
able to get the show without hassle. A podcast, with an RSS feed that
is updated from time to time, is enough to get iTunes to occasionally
connect to the site and grab new episodes, then they land effortlessly
on your iPod whenever it's connected up. It's almost as easy as
tuning in a handheld FM radio! Remember those, back when they had
good music on them?

Josh

Krellan

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Oct 11, 2007, 4:30:53 AM10/11/07
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On Oct 7, 4:36 am, Tester <te...@test.org> wrote:
> One may be able to record AOD either by using something like Total
> Recorder which records stuff going out to the sound card or by using a
> packet sniffer to get the streaming URL and then using a program which
> can download using the various streaming mechanisms (e.g. Mass
> Downloader or NetTransfer)

That's what I did, back when posting new stations to the webpage.

I was proud of always digging to the bottom of the streaming links,
and coming up with a clean link that would begin audio when pressed.
It always popped up in a new player, allowing you to leave the page
you were on and continue to listen. Any leading commercials were
skipped. It would also work when fed directly into most streaming
programs, as you mentioned.

There was only one station that bothered to set up any kind of a
defense. It's really easy to do, just have a URL that is rotated
periodically. Unless the user follows the "long way" through the
station's website, their URL will quickly become out of date, and no
longer work.

I'm glad almost all of the stations didn't do this. Making it easy
for listeners to tune in, and a consistent link that can be bookmarked
and programmed into audio devices, is a good move in the long run.

Josh

Krellan

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Oct 11, 2007, 4:36:03 AM10/11/07
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On Oct 7, 12:39 pm, "Tim Ryan" <TimRyanAA-comc...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> Yes! Who is for a DrD get together at the Homestyle Cafe' in Fort
> Bragg, CA? I'm sold and will stop in if I ever get out that way because
> I heard about them on KOZT-internet.
>
> -Tim
> Ann Arbor, MI

I'd be up for it, when I go up there to visit my parents and collect
the latest batch of KOZT recordings off the old computer I stashed
there :)

The Homestyle Cafe is actually quite a good place. It's very popular
in the early mornings, with a line out the door. They do serve a lot
of food, and they do have healthy food as well even though they don't
advertise that on the radio :)

If you're in Ann Arbor, that's quite a long way to go!

Josh

Tim Ryan

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Oct 11, 2007, 12:20:35 PM10/11/07
to
Josh,

Thanks for speaking up on these issues.
I, too, was thankfull, like many others that I again could get my
dementia fresh from the vine by webbing into a radio station stream. I
only could have seen it as a way for former listeners to once again
become listeners. I kept up my annual Demento Society membership when
Ann Arbor went Demento-less in 1998 in hopes he would return to local
air waves. Your tracking of streaming stations had been usefull to many
a fan (bunches do stay silent here), and should have only worked as a
way to promote The Doctor Demento Show.

-Tim

"Krellan" <> wrote ...

Dan Iacovelli

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Oct 11, 2007, 8:37:46 PM10/11/07
to

Josh,
let me just that your site was great to have ,
sorry to see it have go down this way.
At least you still list the other sites thats not connected to
Dr.Demento but plays same kind of music( like the frump
and the mad music archive)
Dan Iacovelli

peterpuck9

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Oct 14, 2007, 4:00:38 AM10/14/07
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Josh.....Thanks for trying to keep us informed all these years. It was
a great help......Pete

deme...@neither.com

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Oct 14, 2007, 7:14:29 PM10/14/07
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Josh:

Thank you for all of the years of posting the stations. For more than
10 years, it was a weekly ritual for us: my wife and I would sit in my
home office, follow one of your links, listen to the Doctor Demento
Show, sing along, comment on the music. We had a great time. As the
kids got old enough to get the jokes, we invited them in to listen. We
were devastated as the stations on your site gradually started going
"Clear Channel" -- that is, playing dull, formatted, repetitive music
-- on their streams during the times when the show was on the air in
their locations. We tried to get a local business to sponsor the show,
but they WOULDN'T DO IT because it wouldn't be streamed and so many of
the listeners they wanted to reach -- we're rural -- logged into the
stream to overcome reception problems.

It's very sad that Mr. Hansen (AKA Dr. Demento) has sought to depart
from the traditional business model in which advertisers were willing
to pay for you to hear a show in return for a few moments of your
time. This was the true "reason radio was invented." It's a business
model that worked and still works, and there is absolutely no reason
not to extend it to the Web. In fact, streaming via the Intenret
appeals to corporations with nationwide and worldwide customer bases
-- companies which have deeper pockets for advertising than small,
local firms. (Not that the ads of small companies like the Homestyle
Cafe were lost on us either. While we do not live in that area, we
stopped there several times on trips to the West Coast to thank them
for sponsoring the show back when KOZT streamed it. I think that the
patronage of our hungry family of 6 more than compensated them for our
share of the cost.)

Unfortunately, if Mr. Hansen is unable to make enough money to
continue, and I fear that this will be the case, it will be because he
picked an unsustainable business model which included pricing that was
above what the market would bear. $2 per stream is too much for this
show, especially if one is willing to buy a subscription a year at a
time, because only a small percentage of the material is new each
week. While it's enjoyable to hear an old favorite again from time to
time, so many of the songs are repeated from previous weeks (the
"Funny 5" -- a full half hour of the show -- is ALL repeats) that it
doesn't make sense to be charged for them again. If he were to
decrease the price to 50 cents a pop, I suspect that he'd move WAY out
on the price/quantity curve and would actually make a lot more than he
ever could at his current rates. And if he allowed advertisers to
sponsor streaming of the show at, say, 20 cents times the maximum
number of streams at 22K (relatively low quality, but good enough for
students and other folks on a budget), they'd get good value as well.
And there would be ten times the listeners, so the revenue would be
the same.

But not allowing streaming is not a winning strategy. It alienates
both listeners and sponsors. It limits recruitment of new listeners
and new members of his "fan club." And, sadly, it may lead to the
demise of the show which our family enjoyed so much over the years.

There's still time to save the show, but if Mr. Hansen/Dr. Demento/
Talonian continues on the current course, I fear that we'll lose it
for good. He is a very talented an knowledgeable musicologist and disk
jockey. I only hope that he can develop his talents in the area of
business models, strategy, and marketing -- or hire someone with real
talent in these areas -- before the show we all knew and loved is no
more.

-- Still wanting to be a loyal dementite (Is it the "dementites" that
cling to the ceiling, or are those the ones that stick up from the
floor?
I forget.)

txmetsfan

unread,
Oct 27, 2007, 11:21:11 AM10/27/07
to
im am hearing the dr today on a college radio station so i guess hes
allowing it to stream on stations that dont have paid commericals.you
just have to search dilligently.good luck
>
>

Krellan

unread,
Oct 28, 2007, 6:49:13 AM10/28/07
to
On Oct 14, 4:14 pm, dement...@neither.com wrote:
> Thank you for all of the years of posting the stations. For more than
> 10 years, it was a weekly ritual for us: my wife and I would sit in my
> home office, follow one of your links, listen to the Doctor Demento
> Show, sing along, comment on the music. We had a great time. As the
> kids got old enough to get the jokes, we invited them in to listen. We

You're welcome. In the house where I grew up, it was a family ritual
as well, but with a real radio and not online :)

> were devastated as the stations on your site gradually started going
> "Clear Channel" -- that is, playing dull, formatted, repetitive music
> -- on their streams during the times when the show was on the air in

Clear Channel isn't completely bad, as some of their stations (KLFX,
among others) did carry the show online for many of the 10 years.

> their locations. We tried to get a local business to sponsor the show,
> but they WOULDN'T DO IT because it wouldn't be streamed and so many of
> the listeners they wanted to reach -- we're rural -- logged into the
> stream to overcome reception problems.

That's interesting news. A lot of people listening online are more
local than you'd think, for reasons like that. Either they're just
beyond the radius of the radio station, or they're at work and inside
a large building, with no radio reception possible inside but handy
access to a fast computer :)

> It's very sad that Mr. Hansen (AKA Dr. Demento) has sought to depart
> from the traditional business model in which advertisers were willing
> to pay for you to hear a show in return for a few moments of your

I think the advertisers are the ones that pulled out. Near the last
few years of national ads, they were really reaching the bottom of the
barrel (condoms, military recruiting, and so forth). I'm guessing
advertisers want to reach an audience that's more strictly targetted,
and the broad appeal of the Dr. D show is both a blessing and a curse:
it doesn't fit neatly into any format or advertising demographic, so
the deep-pocketed advertisers stay away.

> local firms. (Not that the ads of small companies like the Homestyle
> Cafe were lost on us either. While we do not live in that area, we
> stopped there several times on trips to the West Coast to thank them
> for sponsoring the show back when KOZT streamed it. I think that the

That's cool, and good to know. I find out about things from listening
far away, also, and then seek them out when I'm close. When visiting
New Jersey I found and listened to WDHA on the radio, just because
they used to be one of the old Dr. Demento stations from early on.

> Unfortunately, if Mr. Hansen is unable to make enough money to
> continue, and I fear that this will be the case, it will be because he
> picked an unsustainable business model which included pricing that was
> above what the market would bear. $2 per stream is too much for this

Yes, while $2 seems cheap on the surface, remember that it's a weekly
show, and so that's an outlay of $104/year. There's a ton of sites
online these days that are trying to charge fees in the neighborhood
of $10/month, and it really does add up quick. I'm really having to
pick and choose.

I'd subscribe to the $2, but am really disgusted with what Talonian
did, so don't want to reward them by giving them any money.

And, there's other problems people have pointed out with it (no way to
save or rewind, poor sound quality with a bitrate that is too low,
forfeiture of the $2 after a disconnection even if the show wasn't
finished, and so on).

> decrease the price to 50 cents a pop, I suspect that he'd move WAY out
> on the price/quantity curve and would actually make a lot more than he
> ever could at his current rates. And if he allowed advertisers to
> sponsor streaming of the show at, say, 20 cents times the maximum
> number of streams at 22K (relatively low quality, but good enough for
> students and other folks on a budget), they'd get good value as well.
> And there would be ten times the listeners, so the revenue would be
> the same.

I think the way to go would be for him to take the show into his own
hands as a podcast, and put it out there, free, and try to get
advertisers. I'd much rather hear a show with advertisements for
free, than have to pay for the show. But, returning to the real
world, it's very hard to get advertisers. There's got to be some
connections to a production company with other radio shows, so they
can share a pool of advertisers, maybe. And, there's rights problems
with making a podcast, but so many of the songs are from small artists
that wouldn't mind signing waivers in exchange for the exposure of
being played on the Dr. D show.

> But not allowing streaming is not a winning strategy. It alienates
> both listeners and sponsors. It limits recruitment of new listeners
> and new members of his "fan club." And, sadly, it may lead to the
> demise of the show which our family enjoyed so much over the years.

That is true. So few people can hear the show on normal radio these
days, but constantly I get email from people who are happy to
rediscover the show streaming online. Cut off free streaming and
there goes your new audience. As attrition takes care of the rest,
and you're done.

> There's still time to save the show, but if Mr. Hansen/Dr. Demento/
> Talonian continues on the current course, I fear that we'll lose it
> for good. He is a very talented an knowledgeable musicologist and disk
> jockey. I only hope that he can develop his talents in the area of
> business models, strategy, and marketing -- or hire someone with real
> talent in these areas -- before the show we all knew and loved is no
> more.

I definitely agree with you there! Well put.

> -- Still wanting to be a loyal dementite (Is it the "dementites" that
> cling to the ceiling, or are those the ones that stick up from the
> floor?
> I forget.)

I never could figure that out myself....

Josh

Scott Moxie Man Bernier

unread,
Oct 29, 2007, 6:56:51 AM10/29/07
to
On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:49:13 -0000, Krellan <kre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 14, 4:14 pm, dement...@neither.com wrote:

>> It's very sad that Mr. Hansen (AKA Dr. Demento) has sought to depart
>> from the traditional business model in which advertisers were willing
>> to pay for you to hear a show in return for a few moments of your
>
>I think the advertisers are the ones that pulled out. Near the last
>few years of national ads, they were really reaching the bottom of the
>barrel (condoms, military recruiting, and so forth). I'm guessing
>advertisers want to reach an audience that's more strictly targetted,
>and the broad appeal of the Dr. D show is both a blessing and a curse:
>it doesn't fit neatly into any format or advertising demographic, so
>the deep-pocketed advertisers stay away.

"Locally" at WBLM in Portland, Maine, the Dr. D. show ran close to 2.5
hours back when they aired it. They had 30 extra minutes of
commercials from local sponsors. What killed it here was the Patriots
winning their first Super Bowl in '01. WBLM at that time was owned by
one of those large corporations--not "Clear" Channel, but the other
biggy...Citadel(?). The following year, WBLM became part of the
"Patriots Rock Network" and aired all Patriots games and many times it
pre-empted Dr. D. Sometimes they'd still air Dr. D. at some other
time during the day/week, but it seemed random. They lost
listners/advertisers for Dr. D and eventually stopped airing it all
together. I don't know when. I was one of the listeners who gave up
trying to figure out when it was airing that week.

New2This

unread,
Oct 29, 2007, 1:49:52 PM10/29/07
to
On Oct 6, 12:03 pm, "Tim Ryan" <TimRyanAA-comc...@NOSPAM.net> wrote:
> This is now on the front page ofwww.DrDemento.com.
> It is being presented here as newsworthy and off interest to our
> members. If you have a demento on-line membership and access to his
> forum, you may want to also post about this in that forum. This is also
> being posted in the main forum ofwww.TheMadMusicArchive.com.
> -Tim
>
> -----
> A note from Dr. Demento...
>

Then why beg stations to run the show after cutting the agency that
got you the national advertisers? Then why stab them in the back for
doing you a big favor by still airing the show in major markets? I
know of one situation where the station was giving advertisers bonus
spots for filler because the show couldn't be sold and were not making
any money from the show. They kept airing the show, because it was
the Dr. Demento Show and not only did they like it, fans that couldn't
hear it elsewhere or in a long time loved it. And, yes they were
former streamers. Also, telling a station their original contract
doesn't allow streaming, when that isn't the case when they too have a
copy of the original contract signed. When asked to produce the
contract that stated this, the silent treatment was given. So,
goodbye Dr. D. Keep in mind, stations pay additional royalties to the
various licensing groups that have an automatic charge whether they
stream or not.

Here's an idea, instead of bartering the show, charge $75 a month to
the stations and include streaming. That's feasible enough & should
attract more stations. Spend a little money and put that in the
various trade magazines and you'd be surprised how many baby boomer's
that own stations pick it up. Maybe not the ones that were threatened
with legal actions over "contract violations." I'm sure there were
more than one that this tactic was used on. Oh, and from what I have
read on here, just make sure the remaining paying stations get the
right show each week.

I don't blame him, just those he's trusted with his legacy.

Krellan

unread,
Oct 29, 2007, 4:35:05 PM10/29/07
to
On Oct 29, 3:56 am, moxie...@geedoubleUeye.net (Scott "Moxie Man"

Bernier) wrote:
> "Locally" at WBLM in Portland, Maine, the Dr. D. show ran close to 2.5

Does the signal of WKIT (Bangor) overlap with WBLM? Sorry, all I know
about Maine is Tom's toothpaste :)

> hours back when they aired it. They had 30 extra minutes of
> commercials from local sponsors. What killed it here was the Patriots
> winning their first Super Bowl in '01. WBLM at that time was owned by
> one of those large corporations--not "Clear" Channel, but the other
> biggy...Citadel(?). The following year, WBLM became part of the
> "Patriots Rock Network" and aired all Patriots games and many times it
> pre-empted Dr. D. Sometimes they'd still air Dr. D. at some other
> time during the day/week, but it seemed random. They lost
> listners/advertisers for Dr. D and eventually stopped airing it all
> together. I don't know when. I was one of the listeners who gave up
> trying to figure out when it was airing that week.

They should have simply played the show on Saturday nights, then. To
my knowledge, there's no rule that Dr. D must be played on Sunday
nights. Or, just play Dr. D after the football games have ended.

Josh

Krellan

unread,
Oct 29, 2007, 4:38:35 PM10/29/07
to
On Oct 29, 10:49 am, New2This <az_dbacks6...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here's an idea, instead of bartering the show, charge $75 a month to
> the stations and include streaming. That's feasible enough & should

The show actually did try doing that, just recently. However, they
made the mistake of not allowing streaming.

Since the show no longer carries advertising of its own, and is now
paid for by the stations, last year WQMA in Mississippi tried to have
a fundraising drive online to get enough money to buy the show each
week. It was not successful, though.

Josh

Scott Moxie Man Bernier

unread,
Oct 30, 2007, 6:57:49 AM10/30/07
to
On Mon, 29 Oct 2007 20:35:05 -0000, Krellan <kre...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 29, 3:56 am, moxie...@geedoubleUeye.net (Scott "Moxie Man"
>Bernier) wrote:
>> "Locally" at WBLM in Portland, Maine, the Dr. D. show ran close to 2.5
>
>Does the signal of WKIT (Bangor) overlap with WBLM? Sorry, all I know
>about Maine is Tom's toothpaste :)

(blink, blink) You don't know about Lobstahs or Wild Blueberries
(Maine produces something like 90% of the crop)? (chuckle)

Anyway, I'm in the state capital of Disgusta (er Augusta). We're
equal distance between Portland and Bangor--draw a 140 mile long line
southwest to northeast between Portland and Bangor. Disgusta will be
slightly northwest of the center point of that line....maybe slightly
closer to Portland. I have a power boosted antenna for my radio.
Even then, stations from either market just barely come in, but
Portland's come in better. If I make the praying swan pose from
"Karate Kid" while touching my radio antenna and if the weather is
just right (it won't work when it's a clear evening), I can pick-up
WKIT in Bangor. At least I can pick-up radio stations. Forget about
television other then PBS (too poor to pay outrageous prices for cable
and get mostly garbage for your money.).

Stephen King's Rock n'Roll station, WKIT 101.3FM (yes, this station is
owned by that famous horror author) dropped Dr. D. suddenly just over
a year ago. It was one of those evenings where the weather was just
right and I could actually tune into WKIT, otherwise I wouldn't know
that they dropped it at the end of August. The sunday evening DJ came
on that Labor Day weekend Sunday and announced that Dr. D. would not
be aired that week--no explaination. They haven't aired it since. I
wrote a letter expressing my disappointment. Never got a response.

[About WBLM]


>They should have simply played the show on Saturday nights, then. To
>my knowledge, there's no rule that Dr. D must be played on Sunday
>nights. Or, just play Dr. D after the football games have ended.

Obviously, they didn't think of this. And again, moving it to after
the football game would have meant late at night or perhaps it would
have started a little late or...who knows when they were airing it,
they never announced it and their website kept insisiting it was at
9pm on Sunday. Email inquiories at the time were not acknowledged.
(shrug). I recall a couple of times hearing segments early on Monday
morning (I didn't normally tune into this station except for Dr. D.
due to the poor reception). It was that random as to when they aired
it.


Tim Ryan

unread,
Oct 30, 2007, 4:54:37 PM10/30/07
to
WQMA did get enough sponsors/donators to return it to the air in Marks,
MS last September, after Talonian started charging stations for the
show. For this 250 watt AM station, Talonian wanted more than $75 a
month. Jason did not want to say how much his station was being
charged, as he did not know how much other stations were being charged.
The rate quoted for on-air and streaming was much higher, to the point
of not being sell all the available time (national plus local)in the
show and still make money, so the show did not return to the WQMA
stream, and so the stream also lost some of those that used to donate.
By January, 2007, I would say that he could not get local sponsors for a
show he wanted to support, and WQMA could no longer afford to pay for
what used to come by barter, the playing of enclosed commercials without
any sort of revenue sharing from Talonian. WQMA's other national shows,
more oldies oriented, like Casey Kasem AT40, American Gold & Dick
Clark's show all come in a barter agreement.

I have talked with Jason in the past year and he would be glad to have
the show back, if it was on a barter basis, or even on a for-postage
basis (i.e. about $3 a week).

-Tim

"Krellan" <> wrote ...

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