Country Women Lose Hit Magic
Ryan
They really let the BS fly here, and surprisingly it was written by a woman.
<<> "There was a time when many of the male acts had identity issues --
meaning the
> audience had difficulty telling one artist from another," WUSN Chicago PD
> Justin Case says. "The same may be true now with females. You need either
a
> distinctive sound or a no-brainer hit song to stand out. There is a lot of
> sameness out there right now." >>
Male acts still have identity issues. It seems like there's a new male act
looking for airplay each week. A lot of the time I can't keep all of them
straight. However, I think just about all of the current country females
have a very unique voice and sound.
<<> More telling, programmers also cite a lack of substantive songs being
recorded
> by women and more interesting music coming from male acts.>>
LOL. Yeah, right.
<<> "Martina McBride, who has repeatedly said she doesn't want to cross
over, is
> the undisputed queen of the format right now, because she's still singing
about
> real life and identifying with the average woman. >>
But she shouldn't be. I heard the background music for her new song the
other day and I thought I was on a pop station. She's records as much pop
sounding music as the big name stars mentioned here (like Faith and Shania,
etc.). Martina should be on the outside of Music Row now just like they
are.
<<> "The Dixie Chicks really could've been the No. 1 everything if they
would just
> stop alienating so many fans with their bellyaching," Anthony adds. "The
> feminine void wouldn't be as vast if they weren't putting country radio
PDs in
> so many sticky situations." >>
What BS.
What about Dolly Parton? Everyone knows her and she's got a great new
country single out "I'm Gone". I don't think it's even charted on Billboard
yet. Radio PDs have no room to complain, the music they should play is out
there but they can't stop spinning Shania Twain long enough to go look for
it.
<<>Brenner agrees that "the male artists seem to be coming up with more
songs of
> substance and more songs with true meat. The women seem to be recording
pop --
> fluff songs." >>
I don't believe this at all. It just seems that way based on the singles
radio actually chose to play from females. They play the fluff but ignore
the 'real' country music. IE Shania's "Forever And For Always" vs. Jennifer
Hanson's "This Far Gone". Shania is in the top 10 and Jennifer is moving on
to another single. Those situations should be reversed.
--
Ryan
"I cannot explain how you should begin" - Tift Merritt
Scott
> <<> "Martina McBride, who has repeatedly said she doesn't want to cross
> over, is
> > the undisputed queen of the format right now, because she's still singing
> about
> > real life and identifying with the average woman. >>
>
> But she shouldn't be. I heard the background music for her new song the
> other day and I thought I was on a pop station. She's records as much pop
> sounding music as the big name stars mentioned here (like Faith and Shania,
> etc.). Martina should be on the outside of Music Row now just like they
> are.
Maybe Martina meant she doesn't want to cross over into Country.
mslinda
rather than their talent. Today's label honchos would turn down Patsy
Cline because she can't fit into a size 0.
Linda C.
rmhouse wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
>
>
> Country Women Lose Hit Magic
>
> By Phyllis Stark
>
> NASHVILLE (Billboard) - While country music has worked hard to dismiss age-old
> cliches about pick-up trucks and hard drinking, the music's iron attachment to
> another old-fashioned notion -- the men's club -- appears to be making a
> comeback.
>
> After enjoying a high profile throughout the late '90s, female country artists
> have become a fading presence. Chart-topping hits have been declining for at
> least two years, even for the format's established female stars.
>
> "There was a time when many of the male acts had identity issues -- meaning the
> audience had difficulty telling one artist from another," WUSN Chicago PD
> Justin Case says. "The same may be true now with females. You need either a
> distinctive sound or a no-brainer hit song to stand out. There is a lot of
> sameness out there right now."
>
> KMPS/KYCW Seattle PD Becky Brenner says, "We have been struggling to get a more
> passionate response to the female records we are playing. The audience seems to
> be much more passionate about the males in the format. A few years ago, they
> were more passionate about the females. I think the male audience is liking the
> grittier male acts and their music and the women are, too."
>
> During the first six months of this year, female artists accounted for only
> four of the 34 top 10 hits on the Hot Country Singles & Tracks chart. Of those
> four, only Dixie Chicks managed to top the chart.
>
> While that is not a marked evolution from the first six months of last year --
> which saw five top 10s by female artists, including two No. 1s -- it is a
> startling change compared with the same periods in 2000 and, especially, 1998.
>
> The first six months of 2000 brought 10 top 10 records by female artists, three
> of which went to No. 1. Jumping back to 1998, women scored 14 top 10s, half of
> which went to No. 1.
>
> Among this week's top 20 country singles, there are only two by female artists
> (Shania Twain at No. 9 and Wynonna at No. 18). And it has been 15 months since
> a solo female topped the Billboard Hot Country Singles & Tracks chart.
>
> So what's going on here? Label rosters seem to have plenty of female artists.
> New artists are being introduced all the time, and veteran hitmakers Wynonna
> and Patty Loveless are back on the radio with promising new singles.
>
> Why, then, has it become so hard for women to have hits?
>
> Among the factors cited by country radio programmers are the fallout from the
> Dixie Chicks' anti-war stance and radio's well-documented objections to what
> some programmers perceived as the pop direction of the latest albums from
> superstars Faith Hill and Shania Twain.
>
> More telling, programmers also cite a lack of substantive songs being recorded
> by women and more interesting music coming from male acts.
>
> Gary Overton, executive VP/GM of EMI Music Publishing in Nashville, suggests
> another factor. "There are not enough women in decision-making roles in this
> hit-making process," he says. "While there are a few female A&R people at the
> record labels, the number of females who are record producers, promotion and
> marketing execs and programmers at country radio is far overshadowed by the
> number of men in these positions."
>
> "There's no mistaking the feminine void, that's for sure," WMZQ Washington,
> D.C., assistant PD/music director Jon Anthony says. "It could be the whole
> 'crossover' thing finally catching up to some of them. Those that made a
> deliberate attempt to find new fans outside of country music -- Faith Hill,
> LeAnn Rimes (news), Shania Twain, Lee Ann Womack -- seem to be those who are
> suffering most.
>
> "The research has been consistent with these artists in that their gold catalog
> still tests very well," Anthony continues. "But the just aren't buying their
> new sound anymore.
>
> "Martina McBride, who has repeatedly said she doesn't want to cross over, is
> the undisputed queen of the format right now, because she's still singing about
> real life and identifying with the average woman.
>
> "The Dixie Chicks really could've been the No. 1 everything if they would just
> stop alienating so many fans with their bellyaching," Anthony adds. "The
> feminine void wouldn't be as vast if they weren't putting country radio PDs in
> so many sticky situations."
>
> Meanwhile, the hot male acts have gone in the other direction, toward a more
> traditional sound that seems to be what the audience is craving, Anthony says.
>
> "It feels like we're coming back toward the core and roots of the format, and
> the guys are running up the score on the ladies," he observes. "I hope history
> repeats itself, because the last time we had so many male superstars, in the
> early '90s, country music took off."
>
> Keymarket Communications VP of programming Frank Bell offers another
> explanation. "I knew females at country radio were in trouble last year when I
> first saw the covers of the Faith, Shania and LeAnn Rimes CDs," he says.
>
> "All three images were either drenched in sweat or wearing their underwear in
> an attempt to fulfill some 30-year-old guy's vision of what a pop star should
> look like. Did they not understand that their fan base -- the people who made
> them popular in the first place -- were adult women with a family-oriented
> lifestyle?
>
> "The four biggest female country artists in recent memory are Faith, Shania,
> LeAnn Rimes, and the Dixie Chicks," Bell adds. "The first three all sold their
> souls artistically and made slick-sounding techno-pop records in an attempt to
> become the next Celine Dion. The Chicks made a brilliant country album, then
> committed the biggest PR gaffe in the music business since Milli Vanilli."
>
> The lack of female hits has not gone unnoticed by the label community,
> according to Lyric Street Records senior VP of A&R Doug Howard. "However, it is
> not because we are not trying," he says. "I must admit that we have had a
> couple of misses with some of our releases, but we are confident that we have
> truly unique and extremely talented women making relevant music for our
> format."
>
> Howard does admit concern for the fact that the country format is often guilty
> of embracing one type of country music "while ignoring everything else.
> Hopefully, we can prevent drawing lines so deep that we refuse to recognize the
> amazing array of country female artists in our community."
>
> Paige Levy, senior VP of A&R at Warner Bros. Records, is not overly concerned
> about a lack of hits, as long as female artists continue to sell records.
> "While a No. 1 record would be nice, most record companies are focused on
> getting enough airplay to generate sales and not necessarily throwing a lot of
> money at a record just to win a chart position," she says.
>
> "Established female artists such as Faith Hill, Martina McBride, Sara Evans and
> Shania Twain continue to sell good numbers without having a top-charting
> single."
>
> The quality of female repertoire is also a concern among country music
> insiders.
>
> Tonya Campos, assistant PD/music director of KZLA Los Angeles, thinks "the lack
> of women on the charts is simply because of a lack of good songs for females.
> Good material seems to be the reason that male artists that were not known a
> few months ago now have hit songs on the charts."
>
> Brenner agrees that "the male artists seem to be coming up with more songs of
> substance and more songs with true meat. The women seem to be recording pop --
> fluff songs."
>
> Renee Bell, senior VP of A&R at RCA Label Group, adds, "I have felt since Sept.
> 11 that the audience wants substance. Everything that's really been hitting has
> been real substance songs."
>
> The problem, Bell says, is that it has been hard in recent years to find such
> songs for women artists. For the past five years or so, she says, "a lot of
> what was being written in town was fluff." That's because prior to Sept. 11, a
> lot of the songs that did become hits for women were, in fact, "fluff," and
> songwriters tend to emulate styles that are working.
>
> "We at EMI advise our songwriters to write what they are compelled to write,"
> Overton defends. "Hence, sometimes the songs are passionate ballads, sometimes
> lighter fare. But I can assure you that we have never run short of passionate,
> meaningful songs to play for artists."
>
> Other programmers agree that the dominant male trend is part of a format cycle,
> and some agree with Bell that it's one that might be cycling back in the near
> future.
>
> Not long ago, Hill, McBride, Twain, Wynonna, Trisha Yearwood, Reba McEntire,
> Deana Carter, Pam Tillis and others were dominating the music scene, Cumulus
> Broadcasting regional operations manager Tim Roberts says. "I remember really
> concentrating on editing music logs to avoid too many female artists. I think
> that Music Row saw this, began signing male acts and started releasing more
> male singles, and thus we're now in a male-dominated cycle."
>
> Levy -- who has several new female artists in varying stages of development at
> Warner Bros. -- counters: "I don't believe the labels are purposefully signing
> fewer female artists. Producing compelling music on each artist, regardless of
> gender, has become increasingly difficult for A&R. We're not going to throw out
> singles on new females just because we need a new female. We feel the timing is
> right for a new female to bust through, and, to increase our chances, we will
> take plenty of time searching for hits, recording and experimenting."
>
> Doug Montgomery, operations manager of WBCT Grand Rapids, Mich., says that
> despite the perfect storm that engulfed Hill, Twain and the Chicks, "if Wynonna
> and Martina continue with the success of their current records, Reba follows
> through with her plan to release a new album and the Dixie Chicks'
> controversies subside, this will come back to historical norms in a few
> months."
>
Nola Daniell
> Let's hope the backlash against the "Bimbolina" effect hits soon and
> hits hard...Pete
> --
I'll drink to that :)
Funnily enough, in Australia we are having the exact opposite phenomenon. I
cannot conceive of a time when there were more talented ladies in country music
over here. They have great voices, impressive songwriting talents, good looks
without having to appear half naked and friendly natural personalities. Here's a
list that's just for starters:
Kasey Chambers
Beccy Cole
Catherine Britt
Melinda Schneider
Sara Storer
Cyndi Boste
Tania Kernagham
Lyn Bowtell
TJ Dennis
And we have a couple of male/female duos, something totally missing from the US
country scene at the moment, who will knock your socks off.
Carter & Carter
Fisk & Christian
In fact Carter & Carter have a song out at the moment with Darren Coggins (a
trio?) called "Busy Man" that has q great moral about spending more time with
your family instead of working all the time. It contains my favourite lyric of
the moment:
"Did you ever see a headstone with the words
I wish that I had spent more time at work?"
Nola
Janice Brooks
even get a band together. <<
Careful Pete I know Clark's fiddler Jeanee
Keener.
BUS Janice
2 Western Fiddle albums
Howard Kalish What the Hay http://www.howardkalishmusic.com/
Bobby Flores Just For the Record http://www.bobbyflores.com/
Coop
mslinda wrote:
> This is what happens after a decade of signing women for their looks
> rather than their talent. Today's label honchos would turn down Patsy
> Cline because she can't fit into a size 0.
>
> Linda C.
>
I wondered how long it'd take for an article to come out on this. We've
noted it on here for a considerable time.
Coop
DavidAllanNoNo
>Careful Pete I know Clark's fiddler<
COOL!!!!!!!!!!! :) Ya think you can hook me up with her? :) I saw her picture
on one of her latest cds, and if my wife will agree to make it my anniversary
present, I'm ready to go!!!!
HEY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DavidAllanNoNo
>I wondered how long it'd take for an article to come out on this. We've noted
it on here for a considerable time.<
But that's only a small part of the problem. I need some help from Country Boy
on this.
There's all kinds of information on the age demographic, but I want to see a
demographic on the education (or obvious lack of :)) and the income (again, or
obvious lack of :)) of the radio listeners who made those women, including
Garth Brooks :) successful.
I'll bet it's not just that they're female, it's that they're UNeducated,
UNemployed, and UNable to stop eating! :)
Secondly, most of our regulars, in hindsight revere the "outlaw movement",
which is basically men with big sideburns, big hats, big beards, and big
attitudes! :)
Yet, when presented with Toby Keith, a man who would have fit in seamlessly,
with those "Outlaws" and one who is championed by one of the founders of the
"Outlaw" movement, Willie Nelson, most of our trailer trash sewing circle, show
their true colors, by being offended by Mr. Keith's chauvinistic attitude!
Sorry gals, ya can't have it both ways! The reality is you've proven you're
threatened by a real man, and it was in fact all our regulars, and their
mother's :), who were listening to Kenny Rogers, during the "Outlaw" movement!
:)
Some things NEVER change! :)
Balecox
with those "Outlaws" and one who is championed by one of the founders of the
"Outlaw" movement, Willie Nelson >>
I haven't heard Willie champion him...he just liked the song title and did a
duet.
<< our trailer trash sewing circle >>
I LIKE this tag! And I'm keeping it. Esker -- that's the first good idea you've
passed along....the new sign on my office will read: Trailer Trash Sewing
Circle.
<< you're threatened by a real man, and it was in fact all our regulars, and
their mother's :) who were listening to Kenny Rogers, during the "Outlaw"
movement! >>
ROFL. There's so much I could say right here, especially regarding the
Outlaws...but I'll just repeat, ROFL! Keep trying, Esker. But, thanks for the
Sewing Circle idea...I may have some business cards made up for my friends,
too. The last ones I handed out to certain Twang Town folks read: The Weasel
Police.
P
Kevin C.
>Yet, when presented with Toby Keith, a man who would have fit in seamlessly,
>with those "Outlaws" and one who is championed by one of the founders of the
>"Outlaw" movement, Willie Nelson, most of our trailer trash sewing circle,
>show
>their true colors, by being
>offended by Mr. Keith's chauvinistic attitude!
Not sure why I'm bothering to respond to this, but the key difference between
the original "Outlaws" and the wanna-be Outlaws (Tritt/Keith) is that the
charter members found the label a bit of a joke and resented being harnessed
with the label.
As for Nelson "championing" Toby Keith, I must say, with utmost respect for the
Red-Headed Stranger, the man is too nice (and possibly too stoned) to say no to
anybody. Perhaps you think he also 'champions' Julio Iglesias?
________________
Kevin C.
"Only peace is the road to follow to construct a more just and united society.
Violence and arms can never resolve the problems of men."
- Pope John Paul II, 3/22/03
DavidAllanNoNoNo
>he just liked the song title and did a duet.<
LOL!!!!!!!!! Too funny! :) What planet ARE you living on? :)
If you think Willie "just liked the song title and did a duet", you ought to
hear him pissing his pants on Toby's "I'll Never Smoke Weed With Willie Again"
! :) One of the funniest songs you're ever gonna hear!
Sorry hun, :) once again when it comes to music, you're way "out of the loop"
and basically a TROLL on this ng. :)
P.S.- Don't forget to check out another Toby duet with Willie on "Good Hearted
Woman", on Willie's "Live" CD! :)
Rumor has it, there's more in the can, and Toby recently left some award show
to record with Willie again!
It's beginning to look like Willie found another Waylon! :)
DavidAllanNoNoNo
< our trailer trash sewing circle >
>I LIKE this tag! And I'm keeping it.<
I must say, it does look good on you! LOL!!
>that's the first good idea you've
>passed along<
You mean you missed the one where I said woman shouldn't even be allowed to
vote! :) LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
DavidAllanNoNoNo
>the charter members found the label a bit of a joke and resented being
harnessed
with the label. <
Please. The only thing "a bit of a joke" around here, is you! :) You're
ridiculous. Try not replying if you know nothing about the subject! :)
Most/all of them not only enjoyed the label, they relished it, and in fact,
still do TODAY!
Actions speak louder than words, and it's no coincidence, that 25 years later,
they still dressed in black and still had their beards! :) It became their
armour, and in a way protected them.
> Perhaps you think he also 'champions' Julio Iglesias?<
No I don't THINK, I KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Willie Nelson most certainly DID champion Julio Iglesias, because of the
uniqueness of Julio's voice. If you were around 20 years ago, and were paying
attention, you wouldn't be making such a foolish statement(s)! Does your mother
know you're using the computer? :) LOL!!!!!!!!!!
>Not sure why I'm bothering to respond to this<
NO KIDDING, HUH???????????
Next time, try to find something you have even a clue about, before wasting our
time with nonsense!
Thanks! :) LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sjohns...@hotmail.com
> > Let's hope the backlash against the "Bimbolina" effect hits soon and
> > hits hard...Pete
> > --
>
> I'll drink to that :)
>
> Funnily enough, in Australia we are having the exact opposite phenomenon. I
> cannot conceive of a time when there were more talented ladies in country music
> over here. They have great voices, impressive songwriting talents, good looks
> without having to appear half naked and friendly natural personalities. Here's a
> list that's just for starters:
>
Newton-John gave it a shot in 1973 and hit it big-in Nashville!
I'm open to all options to see if we can fix "the crisis" in Nashville
and get back some real country-I really miss it :( I am still having
trouble getting those late 1970's/early 1980's records out of my head.
A few of you here snubbed me over Leon Everette, but ever since I
bought a record of his stuff and fixed it up on my software, I still
can't get those songs out of my head...and it's all REAL country, too
(this guy stayed away from pop entirely). Just one play of "Giving Up
Easy" (#5 C&W 1980) and you'll understand. I pretty much left mid
90's+ Nashville behind and don't miss it at all (what the hell
happened??!!)-something that makes those now very noticeably greedy
record companies ill. I've been looking for some lesser known Top 10
artists from way back. They're pretty hard to find, and some of them
are too good to be forgotten IMHO. At least not until some real good
country starts showing up again. Maybe I just don't like the style of
any modern music, but I just don't see that any new or good ideas are
appearing in song. It seems that now when they do, they stay #1 for
about two months.
>
>
>
>
> Nola
Ritaloves3
> A few of you here snubbed me over Leon Everette, but ever since I
>bought a record of his stuff and fixed it up on my software, I still
>can't get those songs out of my head...and it's all REAL country, too........
I especially like I Could Have Had You, It's Never Felt Like This Before, and
The Lady She's Right from him.
sjohns...@hotmail.com
Continuing this off-topic discussion I started:
The first is "officially" "I Could'a Had You" (I love the title spelt
(sic) that way). The last had Rex Gosdin (Vern's brother, died in
1983) on harmony. It charted at #31 Country. I am presently putting
together a collection of his stuff, so I hope to hear it all and set
it up on my mp3 player. It was a shame Renaissance folded, they
probably were planning an anthology of him since they included
"Hurricane" on one of their VA CD's. They should have left Stella
Parton's album of re-recordings alone and did him instead. His
biggest hits were "Over" (#10), "Giving Up Easy" (#5), "If I Keep On
Going Crazy" (#11), "Hurricane" (#4), "Midnight Rodeo" (#9), "Just
Give Me What You Think Is Fair" (#7), "Soul Searchin'" (#10), "Shadows
Of My Mind" (#15), "My Lady Loves Me [Just As I Am]" (#9) and "I
Could'a Had You" (#6). The last is also a favorite and great to find
yourself singing. His albums were very unique in that they stuffed
him with earlier Orlando singles to make them really a good deal. His
peak of hits ran from 1980-1984 with albums ranging from 1977 to 1986,
which is probably why he went forgotten much like every other
Nashville star that came out prior to the "New Traditionalist"
movement. I just discovered him recently, so I am still excited about
hearing something different that was better than I expected. I wasn't
a big radio buff back in the 1980's, but still heard a lot of it.
~^Johnny^~
> Olivia
>Newton-John gave it a shot in 1973 and hit it big-in Nashville!
Thanks to Gallico and Sherrill...
Frankly, I don't think ONJ is really that great; although, I knew
friends back in the 70's who were crazy about her. Oddly enough,
many who liked Olivia also liked Freddy Fender. Go figure.
--
-john
~~~~~~~~
If looks and talent still matter in this business
Robin Lee has it made. -Bob McDill
http://www.robinlee.com
~~~~~~~~
fgentry
personally liked Olivia Newton John. Her two great hits back in the
seventies may not have been country but most country stations played
them. So dod we, Floyd