Why I think Modern Country music sucks
Aux
it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
1. modern male performers
a. don't wear western style clothing such as jeans, cowboy boots,
cowboy hats, buckles, etc.
b. sing in a high pitched whiney voice
c. look like preppie snobs.
d. male performers that suck
Bryan White
Garth Brooks (I do think his music before "The Hits" album rules)
any other that doesn't at least wear a cowboy hat or boots while
performing.
2. modern female performers
a. too much T&A. I think that is their only selling point
b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
c. Female Performers that suck
Shania Twain
Faith Hill
JoDee Mesina
Dixie Chicks
any other that is too pop oriented
3. the music itself
a. too pop oriented, has strayed way too far from its roots. The sad
fact is that this is all you tend to hear on most country radio.
b performers that I think hurt country music.
Shania Twain & Garth Brooks
Country performers that are great.
Male- George Strait, Mark Chesnutt, Kenney Chesney, Joe Diffie, Tracy
Byrd, Chris LeDoux.
Female- Reba McEntire, Dolly Parton, LeAnn Rimes(too pop, but actually has
singing talent).
Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the pop
music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any comments
are extremely welcome.
Ray
<aux_...@yahoo.com> :
scratched the following in joined up letters on the blackboard :
*I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my
like for
*it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
Which boiled down to :
*music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any
comments
*are extremely welcome.
The music business is just that. A business. As such it has to make
money. For the company and the artist.
You can only do that by selling product and lots of it. So you pitch
it at the widest possible audience.
That's it.
ray
--
http://www.101proof.mcmail.com
A little bit more than
three chords and the truth.
lain
sound to it now; there's just not much individuality or variety anymore.
But much of your post focuses on what the performers are wearing!! A cowboy
hat and western clothes does not make a *country artist*!! This HNC trend
with the *new* performers in their starched western shirts & tight jeans (I
won't complain about those!) and ill-fitting cowboy hats proved that!!!
There's nothing wrong with appealing to your targeted audiences, but the
focus should be on the music, not the wardrobe.
L.
Aux <aux_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:3770...@news.gj.net...
> I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my like
for
> it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
>
> music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any comments
> are extremely welcome.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ray Zuniga
>I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my like for
>it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
>
>1. modern male performers
>
> a. don't wear western style clothing such as jeans, cowboy boots,
>cowboy hats, buckles, etc.
So you're saying you need to dress the part in order to sing
country music?! Sorry I don't agree. The music is what matters,
not how someone dresses to sing it.
> b. sing in a high pitched whiney voice
Yeah just like Toby Keith. :)
> c. look like preppie snobs.
What does a preppie snob look like?
> d. male performers that suck
>
> Bryan White
> Garth Brooks (I do think his music before "The Hits" album rules)
> any other that doesn't at least wear a cowboy hat or boots while
> performing.
In your opinion of course. Personally I don't care much for Bryan
White either. Doesn't mean that he sucks. Just means I don't like
the stuff he puts out. You do realize there are people out there
who like these guys. Just because you don't, means the whole world
has to conform to your opinion?
>2. modern female performers
>
> a. too much T&A. I think that is their only selling point
I don't agree, besides who's had more T&A then Dolly Parton? :)
I really like Shania's voice. Personally I'd rather
hear her do more songs like "No One Needs To Know", then some of
the stuff she's done more recently but that is only my opinion.
> b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
>
> c. Female Performers that suck
>
> Shania Twain
> Faith Hill
> JoDee Mesina
> Dixie Chicks
> any other that is too pop oriented
Well the Dixie Chicks recently released a single that IMO was more
country then a lot of things we've heard in the past few years
(Tonight The Heartaches On Me). If that thing doesn't make it big
on the charts how do you expect others to follow in their foot
steps?
Someone else said it here that music is a business. If they don't
feel they can make money on a more traditional sound then they're
going to keep putting out more of the same. I'm not saying I like
it, just that I understand it. I don't think posting to some
newsgroup about so and so sucks is going to help the matter any
better.
I realize you are frustrated with the current direction of country
music and I can understand that. I get frustrated myself, but you
also need to remember that there are people out there who like the
traditional sound but also like some of the artists you mentioned.
>3. the music itself
>
> a. too pop oriented, has strayed way too far from its roots. The sad
>fact is that this is all you tend to hear on most country radio.
>
> b performers that I think hurt country music.
>
> Shania Twain & Garth Brooks
The same used to be said about Hank Williams and Patsy Cline. Some
things never change I guess.
> Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the pop
>music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any comments
>are extremely welcome.
I would like to see current country spend more time exploring it's
roots also. I do understand your frustration I just don't agree
with the way you chose to voice it.
aux...@my-deja.com
TheJunk...@mcmail.com or r...@dream-weaver.com wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:59:56 -0600,we all squirmed as "Aux"
> <aux_...@yahoo.com> :
> scratched the following in joined up letters on the blackboard :
>
> like for
> *it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
> Which boiled down to :
>
> comments
> *are extremely welcome.
>
> The music business is just that. A business. As such it has to make
> money. For the company and the artist.
> You can only do that by selling product and lots of it. So you pitch
> it at the widest possible audience.
>
> That's it.
Ray,
I'll have to agree with you, money talks. Country music for the
most part, especially with newer artists, just cannot be called country
music anymore. I guess this is some of the reason that I now listen to
Top40 pop instead of country, which I did listen to more a few years
ago. I do however still listen to country some of the time because
there still are the traditionalists like George Strait, etc.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
aux...@my-deja.com
"lain" <la...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Some of the points you make are valid. Country music HAS a *cookie-
cutter*
> sound to it now; there's just not much individuality or variety
anymore.
>
> But much of your post focuses on what the performers are wearing!! A
cowboy
> hat and western clothes does not make a *country artist*!! This HNC
trend
> with the *new* performers in their starched western shirts & tight
jeans (I
> won't complain about those!) and ill-fitting cowboy hats proved
that!!!
> There's nothing wrong with appealing to your targeted audiences, but
the
> focus should be on the music, not the wardrobe.
> L.
L,
True the wardrobe does not make it country, but what about folks
like Bryan White that look more like they are from the Backstreet Boys
and sound more like it too. We need more folks like George Strait,
Chris LeDoux, etc, and less like Bryan White and the like.
aux...@my-deja.com
>
> So you're saying you need to dress the part in order to sing
> country music?! Sorry I don't agree. The music is what matters,
> not how someone dresses to sing it.
Agreed, for the most part. But don't you expect a Rap artists too look
and dress a certain way. The same with a Heavy Metal artist or a Punk
Rocker from the 70's. Dress is part of the act.
>
> > b. sing in a high pitched whiney voice
>
> Yeah just like Toby Keith. :)
Toby is great, one of the few no hat types that I like. An exception to
the whiney voice and no hat is Vince Gill, a great performer.
>
> > c. look like preppie snobs.
>
> What does a preppie snob look like?
New Kids on The Block, Backstreet Boys, etc. In other words more like
they would belong on a Soap Opera or in one of the aforementioned
groups.
>
> > d. male performers that suck
> >
> > Bryan White
> > Garth Brooks (I do think his music before "The Hits" album
rules)
> > any other that doesn't at least wear a cowboy hat or boots
while
> > performing.
>
> In your opinion of course. Personally I don't care much for Bryan
> White either. Doesn't mean that he sucks. Just means I don't like
> the stuff he puts out. You do realize there are people out there
> who like these guys. Just because you don't, means the whole world
> has to conform to your opinion?
Yes, it is my opinion that those folks suck. I agree that they need to
cater to many different likes, but when you have 4 country stations
that seem to play stuff like Bryan White and Shania all day, it gets
annoying.
>
> >2. modern female performers
> >
> > a. too much T&A. I think that is their only selling point
>
> I don't agree, besides who's had more T&A then Dolly Parton? :)
> I really like Shania's voice. Personally I'd rather
> hear her do more songs like "No One Needs To Know", then some of
> the stuff she's done more recently but that is only my opinion.
>
Yup, Dolly Parton has waaay too much T&A, but she was country and not
some pop artist trying to pass herself off as country. Yes she did go
pop with songs like "9 to 5", but she always went back to her
traditional roots. Shania has singing talent, but what makes me mad is
the fact that she is more of a pop artist trying to pass of as a
country artist. I think she sounds better when she is singing a
completly Top40 pop song.
> > b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
> >
> > c. Female Performers that suck
> >
> > Shania Twain
> > Faith Hill
> > JoDee Mesina
> > Dixie Chicks
> > any other that is too pop oriented
>
> Well the Dixie Chicks recently released a single that IMO was more
> country then a lot of things we've heard in the past few years
> (Tonight The Heartaches On Me). If that thing doesn't make it big
> on the charts how do you expect others to follow in their foot
> steps?
>
The Dixie Chicks are just annoying, that is all. Another thing, sort of
off topic, is that there is not originality anymore. One group has a
style that is popular, next thing you know there are ten other groups
that look and sound the same.
> Someone else said it here that music is a business. If they don't
> feel they can make money on a more traditional sound then they're
> going to keep putting out more of the same. I'm not saying I like
> it, just that I understand it. I don't think posting to some
> newsgroup about so and so sucks is going to help the matter any
> better.
>
All I wanted was some feedback from other folks. I think that time can
change the music. If I remember right about 20 years ago country music
went through a pop stage, people got disgusted with it and it returned
to the traditional sound, ie folks like George Strait, Randy Travis,
Reba McEntire.
> I realize you are frustrated with the current direction of country
> music and I can understand that. I get frustrated myself, but you
> also need to remember that there are people out there who like the
> traditional sound but also like some of the artists you mentioned.
>
yup, frustrated. At least Top40 pop has basically stayed Top40 pop.
Country music is getting to chameleon like.
> >3. the music itself
> >
> > a. too pop oriented, has strayed way too far from its roots. The
sad
> >fact is that this is all you tend to hear on most country radio.
> >
> > b performers that I think hurt country music.
> >
> > Shania Twain & Garth Brooks
>
> The same used to be said about Hank Williams and Patsy Cline. Some
> things never change I guess.
>
> > Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the
pop
> >music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any
comments
> >are extremely welcome.
>
> I would like to see current country spend more time exploring it's
> roots also. I do understand your frustration I just don't agree
> with the way you chose to voice it.
>
\
The roots county, ie the old country is the country music that I like
to listen to, but do they play this on the radio, nope. It has only
been in the last 5 years or so that in my opinion country music has
begun to go downhill. I attribute the start of the slide to folks like
Garth Brooks and Shania Twain because 5 years ago is about the time
that they were getting popular and everyone decided to copy-cat them.
As for voicing my frustrations, how else am I supposed to do it than
to state an opinion and to state the reasons why I have that opinion.
Remember nobody has the same opinion or way of expressing it.
> Ray
> rv...@yahoo.com
Ray Zuniga
>Agreed, for the most part. But don't you expect a Rap artists too look
>and dress a certain way. The same with a Heavy Metal artist or a Punk
>Rocker from the 70's. Dress is part of the act.
I don't care what anyone wears when they're up on stage singing a
good country tune. To me dress has nothing to do with the
experience of what I listen to.
>Yes, it is my opinion that those folks suck. I agree that they need to
>cater to many different likes, but when you have 4 country stations
>that seem to play stuff like Bryan White and Shania all day, it gets
>annoying.
Well I'm not aware off any playlists which contain only Shania and
Bryan but I do get your point. In fact I haven't heard much from
Bryan on the radio in the last couple of months. Doesn't mean he's
not getting played though. Maybe I'm just lucky. :)
>The Dixie Chicks are just annoying, that is all. Another thing, sort of
>off topic, is that there is not originality anymore. One group has a
>style that is popular, next thing you know there are ten other groups
>that look and sound the same.
Unfortunately that's going to happen in this type of society. One
person succeeds, the next person tries to copy that success.
> As for voicing my frustrations, how else am I supposed to do it than
>to state an opinion and to state the reasons why I have that opinion.
>Remember nobody has the same opinion or way of expressing it.
I guess I've just seen too many so-and-so sucks post here over the
years. Get tired of them. Yes I understand you may not like
so-and-so but there's better ways to phrase those types of comments
then just so-and-so sucks. You are right though, we all have our own
way of expressing how we feel. Doesn't mean I have to like it
though. :)
Country music is always going to go through it's gyrations. And as
with most people, once you find something you like, you don't care
to see it change too much. Unfortunately it's not the nature of
the business. You mentioned originality earlier, originality means
doing something different then what others have done. That
difference may not always be something you like. I don't think you
can have originality and have things the way they were at one time.
Those two ideas tend to conflict with one another. Originality
will take you in directions you've never been before.
Mike Harmon (VivaBuck)
Saying they are TOO POP ORIENTED is a horrible comment. They have fiddle,
dobro, banjo, and steel in almost every one of their songs. How can you be POP
with dobro?? IT CAN'T BE DONE!!
They may not dress the part of a "country woman singer" but who frekin' cares
what they look like. This is another one of the reasons radio sucks ass. They
worry about what the artists looks like, and on radio it doesn't matter. Now, I
have always thought that video charts and radio charts would always be vastly
different, but they never are.
VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR..............AGAIN!!
Aux wrote:
> I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my like for
> it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
> 1. modern male performers
>
> a. don't wear western style clothing such as jeans, cowboy boots,
> cowboy hats, buckles, etc.
>
> b. sing in a high pitched whiney voice
>
> c. look like preppie snobs.
>
> d. male performers that suck
>
> Bryan White
> Garth Brooks (I do think his music before "The Hits" album rules)
> any other that doesn't at least wear a cowboy hat or boots while
> performing.
>
> 2. modern female performers
>
> a. too much T&A. I think that is their only selling point
>
> b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
>
> c. Female Performers that suck
>
> Shania Twain
> Faith Hill
> JoDee Mesina
> Dixie Chicks
> any other that is too pop oriented
>
> 3. the music itself
>
> a. too pop oriented, has strayed way too far from its roots. The sad
> fact is that this is all you tend to hear on most country radio.
>
> b performers that I think hurt country music.
>
> Shania Twain & Garth Brooks
>
> Country performers that are great.
>
> Male- George Strait, Mark Chesnutt, Kenney Chesney, Joe Diffie, Tracy
> Byrd, Chris LeDoux.
>
> Female- Reba McEntire, Dolly Parton, LeAnn Rimes(too pop, but actually has
> singing talent).
>
Kevin J. Beck
>
> Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the pop
> music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any comments
> are extremely welcome.
Amen and Amen!
KJB
a
aux...@my-deja.com wrote:
>Maybe I should have had better categories. Sorry. about
>the POP sound, remember that British "Cotton-Eyed Joe" dance
song?
They play that song at the 7th inning stretch at Yankee Stadium
every single game, with the video. I'm sick of it, but the fans
love it.
If you asked a Yankee fan to name their most favorite country
song, they'd say "Cotton-Eyed Joe." Not the real one. That one.
You see how ridiculous it is for some snobs in Nashville to try to
define what's country? To me, real country music is Townes Van
Zandt, Kate Wolf, Doc Watson, and Garcia/Hunter. To people in Nova
Scotia, it's the Rankins. To people in the Bronx and Jersey, it's
the George Steinbrenner version of "Cotton-Eyed Joe." People have
a right to like whatever country music they want, without
interference from BTOs.
Stella
aux...@my-deja.com
> I KNOW you're gonna get ripped for adding the SDixie Chicks on your
list.
> Saying they are TOO POP ORIENTED is a horrible comment. They have
fiddle,
> dobro, banjo, and steel in almost every one of their songs. How can
you be POP
> with dobro?? IT CAN'T BE DONE!!
sorry, I should have said annoying. I just dont like the Dixie Chicks
or their music. Maybe I should have had better categories. Sorry. about
the POP sound, remember that British "Cotton-Eyed Joe" dance song?
Maybe I don't like a lot of singers or groups because they seem to be
overplayed. You can get sick of a good thing.
>
> They may not dress the part of a "country woman singer" but who
frekin' cares
> what they look like. This is another one of the reasons radio sucks
ass. They
> worry about what the artists looks like, and on radio it doesn't
matter. Now, I
> have always thought that video charts and radio charts would always
be vastly
> different, but they never are.
Good point, the stuffy country dress from years back was not good.
Still country needs to look country, just like you'd expect a punk
rocker to have a colored mohawk.
aux...@my-deja.com
r...@seepost.com (Ray Zuniga) wrote:
> In article <7kr9qr$et6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <aux...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
look
> >and dress a certain way. The same with a Heavy Metal artist or a Punk
> >Rocker from the 70's. Dress is part of the act.
>
> good country tune. To me dress has nothing to do with the
> experience of what I listen to.
>
yes but would you enjoy it as much if that singer was wearing a pink
mohawk and chains and was singing abount trucks and cattle.
> >Yes, it is my opinion that those folks suck. I agree that they need
to
> >cater to many different likes, but when you have 4 country stations
> >that seem to play stuff like Bryan White and Shania all day, it gets
> >annoying.
>
> > >off topic, is that there is not originality anymore. One group has
a
> >style that is popular, next thing you know there are ten other groups
> >that look and sound the same.
>
> Unfortunately that's going to happen in this type of society. One
> person succeeds, the next person tries to copy that success.
>
And it gets out of hand quickly. Too much of a good thing really isn't
> > As for voicing my frustrations, how else am I supposed to do it than
> >to state an opinion and to state the reasons why I have that opinion.
> >Remember nobody has the same opinion or way of expressing it.
>
> I guess I've just seen too many so-and-so sucks post here over the
> years. Get tired of them. Yes I understand you may not like
> so-and-so but there's better ways to phrase those types of comments
> then just so-and-so sucks. You are right though, we all have our own
> way of expressing how we feel. Doesn't mean I have to like it
> though. :)
Sorry, maybe I should have said "What I Find Wrong With Modern Country
Music." Too bad I can't go back and change it.
>
> Country music is always going to go through it's gyrations. And as
> with most people, once you find something you like, you don't care
> to see it change too much. Unfortunately it's not the nature of
> the business. You mentioned originality earlier, originality means
> doing something different then what others have done.
Yes, Garth was original (the Rock style concert) and Shania was
original (the provocative dress, videos, and song lyrics). They were
original, but not the numerous copycats that have come along since.
That
> difference may not always be something you like. I don't think you
> can have originality and have things the way they were at one time.
> Those two ideas tend to conflict with one another. Originality
> will take you in directions you've never been before.
And again I have to mention all of the copycats that make a what was
once a good thing a really bad thing. I think I remeber seeing a Shania
concert show on TV. It looked like MC Hammer & Madonna meet the
Chippendale Fiddlers. Pop style is original, but it's not country :)
Since the pop style/pop sound in country seems to be very popular, that
I all that a heck of a lot of stations seem to play. It would be nice
If they would have a better mix. When you hear a Shania or Garth song
about every 6th or 7th song it gets old. I would like to see more hat
and boot wearing acts and less pop style acts, but I guess money talks.
Not all non-boot/non-hat acts are bad, in fact most of them are very
good, but the ones that do have quite a bit of country to them.
And in ending, the revised t
aux...@my-deja.com
r...@seepost.com (Ray Zuniga) wrote:
> In article <7kr9qr$et6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <aux...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
>
look
> >and dress a certain way. The same with a Heavy Metal artist or a Punk
> >Rocker from the 70's. Dress is part of the act.
>
> good country tune. To me dress has nothing to do with the
> experience of what I listen to.
>
yes but would you enjoy it as much if that singer was wearing a pink
mohawk and chains and was singing abount trucks and cattle.
> >Yes, it is my opinion that those folks suck. I agree that they need
to
> >cater to many different likes, but when you have 4 country stations
> >that seem to play stuff like Bryan White and Shania all day, it gets
> >annoying.
>
> > >off topic, is that there is not originality anymore. One group has
a
> >style that is popular, next thing you know there are ten other groups
> >that look and sound the same.
>
> Unfortunately that's going to happen in this type of society. One
> person succeeds, the next person tries to copy that success.
>
And it gets out of hand quickly. Too much of a good thing really isn't
> > As for voicing my frustrations, how else am I supposed to do it than
> >to state an opinion and to state the reasons why I have that opinion.
> >Remember nobody has the same opinion or way of expressing it.
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
AMEN!!!! The last Shania concert I saw on TV looked more like Madonna
meets the Chippendale Fiddlers than a country concert. We need more
country in country, not less.
> KJB
aux...@my-deja.com
artist they countriness on a scale of 1 to 5, five being totally
country, no offense to those fans is intended. This is by the artist,
not the album or song.
1. Shania Twain- Come On Over---- Countriness=1
2. Dixie Chicks- Wide Open Spaces---- Countriness=3
3. Tim McGraw- A Place In The Sun---- Countriness=4
4. Lonestar- Lonely Grill---- Countriness=4
5. Faith Hill- Faith---- Countriness=2
6. Mary Chapin Carpenter-- Party Doll & Other Favorites----
Countriness=3
7. Kenny Rogers- She Rides Wild Horses--- Countriness=3
8. JoDee Mesina- I'm Alright---- Countriness=2
9. George Strait- Always Never The Same---- Countriness=5
10. Kenny Chesney- Everywhere We Go---- Countriness=5
11. Garth Brooks- Double Live---- Countriness=3
12. Martina McBride- Evolution- (never listened to her)
13. Dwight Yoakam- Greatest Hits---- Countriness=5
14. Soundtrack
15. Shedaisy- The Whole Shebang- (never heard of the act)
16. Steve Wariner- Two Tear Drops---- Countriness=5
17. Chris LeDoux- 20 Hits---- Countriness=5
18. Mark Wills- Wish You Were Here---- Countriness=3
19. Lila McCann- Something In The Air- (never listened to her)
20. Shelly Wright- Single White Female- (never listened to her)
Again this is just my opinion as to who I think is more country or less
country. Many factors go into it, including dress, singing style,
stage/video act, and popularity. A "1" is too pop. A "3" is pretty well
balanced, but could lean either way. A "5" meets all or most of the
criteria, whether or not they wear a hat and boots or not.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7ks4u1$p4j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> In article <7krdce$e...@ssbunews.ih.lucent.com>,
>
> Since the pop style/pop sound in country seems to be very popular, that
> I all that a heck of a lot of stations seem to play. It would be nice
> If they would have a better mix. When you hear a Shania or Garth song
> about every 6th or 7th song it gets old. I would like to see more hat
> and boot wearing acts and less pop style acts, but I guess money talks.
> Not all non-boot/non-hat acts are bad, in fact most of them are very
> good, but the ones that do have quite a bit of country to them.
>
>
I think if you study the last 30 years of country radio, you'll find that
it's always mixed pop/country and country artists. From what I can see,
the percentage hasn't changed much in all that time. And as for the
artists wearing boots & hats, Garth wears the costume, yet you only find
half of his stuff country. Maybe that should tell you something. Country
people aren't stuck in a vacuum as they were 70 years ago. They have
satellite dishes on top of their trailers, and they like what they like,
even if it doesn't fit your stereotype.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7ks53l$p5s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> The last Shania concert I saw on TV looked more like Madonna
> meets the Chippendale Fiddlers than a country concert. We need more
> country in country, not less.
> > KJB
> >
It depends which country you're talking about. Remember that Shania isn't
from the US. Her experiences aren't the same as yours. Therefore her
definitions are probably different too. And it's her music that she's
singing. So she's just true to her traditions. Just broaden your view a
bit. It used to be that country stars came from two geographic parts of
the world: The south and the west. Now they come from everywhere. As a
result, the music takes on new influences.
Tony Thomas
effect of mass marketing is that you have to make the music as palatable
(ie. bland, unoriginal) as possible. (No offense to Shania and Garth
fans - just my opinion.) That way you have the best chance of the most
people liking it. It happens to rock bands all of the time. The bigger
they get, it seems, the worse their music gets.
The solution, I think, is not to support those artists. Support the
country bands on independent labels, or local bands. Go to see a band
at a small club - and buy their merchandise! There are a lot out
there. I guarantee if you like traditional country better, you'll have
better luck on the small labels and small clubs.
Ray wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:59:56 -0600,we all squirmed as "Aux"
> <aux_...@yahoo.com> :
> scratched the following in joined up letters on the blackboard :
>
> *I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my
> like for
> *it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
> Which boiled down to :
>
> *music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any
> comments
> *are extremely welcome.
>
> The music business is just that. A business. As such it has to make
> money. For the company and the artist.
> You can only do that by selling product and lots of it. So you pitch
> it at the widest possible audience.
>
> That's it.
>
Dan Tropea
I absolutely love modern pop country. Here is why. After nearly
2 years of listening to it.
1) Pop industry is well abysmal. It seems to be overrun by
vocally gymnastic Divas. Such as Celine, Mariah and Whitney.
Granted i love female vocalists but i can do without vocal
gymnastics which is taking the place of the meaning of the songs
and how the songs should be delivered. I used to own every single
Celine cd and play her music a lot until i discovered Trisha
Yearwood and female country pop vocalists.
2) I live in the Northeast and cannot relate to cowboy images
as your post alluded. To me boots are for winter with snow.
Maybe its just me but i cannot relate to it.
3) Pop country i think has some of the best female singers in any
catagory. Yearwood, McBride and even the list you have that you
dislike (i own all their cds and constantly listen to them). These
singers seem to realize that a fantastic voice is important but
there is a balance between their voice and the words. Regulat pop
there is no balance.
4) Coming over from straight pop i can't stand the fiddle. Usually
when a song starts with heavy fiddles i skip the song. I am very
happy that fewer singers use it. I have tried listening to
traditional country and couldn't stand it. No offense.
I think that there are probably more people like myself who were
disgusted with pop and discovered pop country and love it.
So i think the market is evolving. Now do people like myself now
outnumber the traditional market? With the fan base Shania has
along with Yearwood and McBride (there latest cds were definately
strict pop country) i have to wonder.
Just another perspective.
Aux wrote:
>
> b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
>
> c. Female Performers that suck
>
> Shania Twain
> Faith Hill
> JoDee Mesina
> Dixie Chicks
> any other that is too pop oriented
>
>
>
> Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the pop
> music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any comments
> are extremely welcome.
Matthew Becker
ago for the same reason, and skipped all the songs that were "too country".
Now, I love all types of country, from Garth to George to anyone else
that'll write me a good song :)
--Matthew
Coop
Dan Tropea wrote:
> First i know i will be flamed for what i am going to state.
>
> I absolutely love modern pop country. Here is why. After nearly
> 2 years of listening to it.
>
> 1) Pop industry is well abysmal. It seems to be overrun by
> vocally gymnastic Divas. Such as Celine, Mariah and Whitney.
> Granted i love female vocalists but i can do without vocal
> gymnastics which is taking the place of the meaning of the songs
> and how the songs should be delivered. I used to own every single
> Celine cd and play her music a lot until i discovered Trisha
> Yearwood and female country pop vocalists.
Were hoping the same thing doesn't happen to country.
>
> 2) I live in the Northeast and cannot relate to cowboy images
> as your post alluded. To me boots are for winter with snow.
> Maybe its just me but i cannot relate to it.
>
To me, country is more a state of mind.
> 3) Pop country i think has some of the best female singers in any
> catagory. Yearwood, McBride and even the list you have that you
> dislike (i own all their cds and constantly listen to them). These
> singers seem to realize that a fantastic voice is important but
> there is a balance between their voice and the words. Regulat pop
> there is no balance.
Country does have great female singers. I like Patty Loveless myself.
>
> 4) Coming over from straight pop i can't stand the fiddle. Usually
> when a song starts with heavy fiddles i skip the song. I am very
> happy that fewer singers use it. I have tried listening to
> traditional country and couldn't stand it. No offense.
How about the steel guitar?
>
>
> I think that there are probably more people like myself who were
> disgusted with pop and discovered pop country and love it.
>
> Yes, but only time will tell if they hang around.
Scott
>First i know i will be flamed for what i am going to state.
>
>I absolutely love modern pop country. Here is why. After nearly
>2 years of listening to it.
>
>1) Pop industry is well abysmal. It seems to be overrun by
>vocally gymnastic Divas. Such as Celine, Mariah and Whitney.
>Granted i love female vocalists but i can do without vocal
>gymnastics which is taking the place of the meaning of the songs
>and how the songs should be delivered. I used to own every single
>Celine cd and play her music a lot until i discovered Trisha
>Yearwood and female country pop vocalists.
>as your post alluded. To me boots are for winter with snow.
>Maybe its just me but i cannot relate to it.
You don't have to relate to Western wear. I've always lived in industrial
cities around the Great Lakes, and we don't typically dress like that
either. But that's how Country singers are supposed to dress.
>3) Pop country i think has some of the best female singers in any
>catagory. Yearwood, McBride and even the list you have that you
>dislike (i own all their cds and constantly listen to them). These
>singers seem to realize that a fantastic voice is important but
>there is a balance between their voice and the words. Regulat pop
>there is no balance.
I would have to disagree about Ms. McBride and her incessant bellowing.
>4) Coming over from straight pop i can't stand the fiddle. Usually
>when a song starts with heavy fiddles i skip the song. I am very
>happy that fewer singers use it. I have tried listening to
>traditional country and couldn't stand it.
That's unfortunate, because the fiddle is an integral part of country music.
However, you can substitute a honky-tonk piano. When Coop asked about steel
guitar, he meant *steel guitar*, not a plain electric guitar.
aux...@my-deja.com
Alabama, a band that does mix rock and country, but the thing is they
are still country style, not hip-hop, not pop, not homogenized NKOTB
music, not something they aren't, they are country. The same goes for a
few other groups in the past also. The thing I dont like about folks
like Shania is that they seem to dump the country image, sound, and
mannerisms in favor of the more palatable pop, dance, and hip-hop image.
In article <01bebdfb$12436440$dd1ffcd1@default>,
aux...@my-deja.com
like the Western and Midwestern US. If she pushed herself as a pop
artist with a country tinge then I might accept her more, but she is a
pop artist that wants to fool you she is country..
> It depends which country you're talking about. Remember that Shania
isn't
> from the US. Her experiences aren't the same as yours. Therefore her
> definitions are probably different too. And it's her music that she's
> singing. So she's just true to her traditions. Just broaden your
view a
> bit. It used to be that country stars came from two geographic parts
of
> the world: The south and the west. Now they come from everywhere.
As a
> result, the music takes on new influences.
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
Dan Tropea <dtr...@cabletron.com> wrote:
> First i know i will be flamed for what i am going to state.
>
> I absolutely love modern pop country. Here is why. After nearly
> 2 years of listening to it.
>
> 1) Pop industry is well abysmal. It seems to be overrun by
> vocally gymnastic Divas. Such as Celine, Mariah and Whitney.
> Granted i love female vocalists but i can do without vocal
> gymnastics which is taking the place of the meaning of the songs
> and how the songs should be delivered. I used to own every single
> Celine cd and play her music a lot until i discovered Trisha
> Yearwood and female country pop vocalists.
True, pop music is abysmal as well. I got sick of Celine after hearing
that stupid Titanic song all of the time.
> 2) I live in the Northeast and cannot relate to cowboy images
> as your post alluded. To me boots are for winter with snow.
> Maybe its just me but i cannot relate to it.
Being from small towns in the West, I can relate to the boot and hat
image, it's pretty common in the smaller towns, not so much in the
bigger ones.
> 3) Pop country i think has some of the best female singers in any
> catagory. Yearwood, McBride and even the list you have that you
> dislike (i own all their cds and constantly listen to them). These
> singers seem to realize that a fantastic voice is important but
> there is a balance between their voice and the words. Regulat pop
> there is no balance.
All of them have good or great singing voices, otherwise they
probably wouldn't be where they are.
> 4) Coming over from straight pop i can't stand the fiddle. Usually
> when a song starts with heavy fiddles i skip the song. I am very
> happy that fewer singers use it. I have tried listening to
> traditional country and couldn't stand it. No offense.
Well, fiddles are part of country music. It's what makes it country
music. This is the gripe that I have with alot of current singers, they
want to shove the country image and sound under the rug in favor of a
more palatable and generic pop image.
>
> I think that there are probably more people like myself who were
> disgusted with pop and discovered pop country and love it.
Shania is not good. A good pop country group is Alabama. One that used
to be around years back was Restless Heart and a lot of their songs
were very pop sounding.
>
> So i think the market is evolving. Now do people like myself now
> outnumber the traditional market? With the fan base Shania has
> along with Yearwood and McBride (there latest cds were definately
> strict pop country) i have to wonder.
If Shania promoted herself as a pop arists from the start instead of
faking the country image, then maybe I would like her more.
BTW- What's wrong with the traditional country sound?
>
> Just another perspective.
>
> Aux wrote:
>
> >
> > b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
> >
> > c. Female Performers that suck
> >
> > Shania Twain
> > Faith Hill
> > JoDee Mesina
> > Dixie Chicks
> > any other that is too pop oriented
> >
> >
> >
> > Country music needs to return to the country and get away from the
pop
> > music glitz and glam. In other words, get back to tradition. Any
comments
> > are extremely welcome.
>
James Michael Randorff
>Update, just checked the lates Billboard album charts. I will rate by
>artist they countriness on a scale of 1 to 5, five being totally
>country, no offense to those fans is intended. This is by the artist,
>not the album or song.
>
>
>1. Shania Twain- Come On Over---- Countriness=1
>2. Dixie Chicks- Wide Open Spaces---- Countriness=3
>3. Tim McGraw- A Place In The Sun---- Countriness=4
>4. Lonestar- Lonely Grill---- Countriness=4
Tim McGraw... Mr. It's Your Overplayed Love Song? Mr. Please Remember Me?
Mr. One Of These Days I Might Record Something That Remotely Resembles Country?
He's more country than the Chicks?!? At least they recently released a killer
country shuffle in "Tonight The Heartache's On Me."
>5. Faith Hill- Faith---- Countriness=2
I would have put Tim at about a 2 as well.
>6. Mary Chapin Carpenter-- Party Doll & Other Favorites----
>Countriness=3
True... she's more folkie than anything... but I LOVE her songwriting... she
also is a great fingerstyle guitarist, and she has such a great stage presence
for whatever style of music she does.
>7. Kenny Rogers- She Rides Wild Horses--- Countriness=3
>8. JoDee Mesina- I'm Alright---- Countriness=2
JoDee at the same low level as Faith? Do what?!?
>9. George Strait- Always Never The Same---- Countriness=5
>10. Kenny Chesney- Everywhere We Go---- Countriness=5
5? She's Got It All? How Forever Feels? You Had Me From Hello? He hasn't
released anything country in quite a while!
>11. Garth Brooks- Double Live---- Countriness=3
>12. Martina McBride- Evolution- (never listened to her)
Martina would rank about a 2 on the countriness scale, but a danged talented 2!
>13. Dwight Yoakam- Greatest Hits---- Countriness=5
>14. Soundtrack
>15. Shedaisy- The Whole Shebang- (never heard of the act)
>16. Steve Wariner- Two Tear Drops---- Countriness=5
>17. Chris LeDoux- 20 Hits---- Countriness=5
>18. Mark Wills- Wish You Were Here---- Countriness=3
>19. Lila McCann- Something In The Air- (never listened to her)
While I am a huge fan of Ms. McCann's, I would rank her, in countriness, around
a 2.5. She does a lot of the pop-country flavored stuff.
>20. Shelly Wright- Single White Female- (never listened to her)
>
>
>Again this is just my opinion as to who I think is more country or less
>country. Many factors go into it, including dress, singing style,
>stage/video act, and popularity. A "1" is too pop. A "3" is pretty well
>balanced, but could lean either way. A "5" meets all or most of the
>criteria, whether or not they wear a hat and boots or not.
How someone dresses doesn't do a thing for me in regards to how country they
are... too many drugstore cowboys in the 80's and early 90's cures you quickly
of caring what the performer wears. As Conway Twitty said it... "Don't Call
Him A Cowboy Until You've Seen Him Ride."
Later,
~~ James Michael Randorff (jran...@aol.com)
~~ http://hometown.aol.com/jrandorff/index.html
Stress (n, syn. 'strain'): The confusion caused when the mind must resist the
urge to CHOKE THE LIVING CRAP OUT OF SOMEONE THAT REALLY DESERVES I
Country Boy
James Michael Randorff <jran...@aol.compliment> wrote in article
<19990625041633...@ngol08.aol.com>...
>
> Tim McGraw... Mr. It's Your Overplayed Love Song? Mr. Please Remember
Me?
> Mr. One Of These Days I Might Record Something That Remotely Resembles
Country?
>
> He's more country than the Chicks?!? At least they recently released a
killer
> country shuffle in "Tonight The Heartache's On Me."
>
I agree with your comment about the Chicks. However, the McGraw song isn't
a love song. It's about love lost. She's gone, and he hopes that she will
remember him. As for Tim's qualifications as a country singer, I suggest
you don't have an accent like his and sing anything else. If you can find
me a pop singer with his Louisianna accent, I'll stand corrected.
>
> >6. Mary Chapin Carpenter-- Party Doll & Other Favorites----
> >Countriness=3
>
> True... she's more folkie than anything... but I LOVE her
songwriting... she
> also is a great fingerstyle guitarist, and she has such a great stage
presence
> for whatever style of music she does.
>
This is why these posts about "what's country and what isn't" become mired
in flame wars. Everyone has their exceptions to these "rules." And the
constant complaints about "lack of variety" fail to reflect the fact that
country radio plays everything from 60s-style country to pop/country to
Chapin. And it always has. Which is why Anne Murray, Kenny Rogers, Linda
Ronstadt, and Olivia Newton-John all got country radio airplay 20 years
ago, and why Shania Twain, Faith Hill, and others continue that tradition
today.
> >9. George Strait- Always Never The Same---- Countriness=5
> >10. Kenny Chesney- Everywhere We Go---- Countriness=5
>
> 5? She's Got It All? How Forever Feels? You Had Me From Hello? He
hasn't
> released anything country in quite a while!
>
Once again, when you listen to his voice, he can't be anything but country.
You're discussing the production of his songs. But can you imagine
someone with his hillbilly accent on pop radio? Singing about Richard
Petty? You imply that country people can't be in love or that there is no
tradition of country love songs. Last year, he put out a song called
"That's Why I'm Here," which dealt with alcoholism. His vocals were
textbook Haggard. I'd say that qualifies it to be a country song, and
qualifies him to be a country singer.
Forget the stereotypes. People complain about the "sameness" of new
country songs, yet they want today's songs to fit into some box based on
the past. I suggest that when country singers try to honor the tradition,
they get attacked for sounding too much like Haggard. If they try and do
something radically different, like Shania, they get attacked for sounding
too pop. Consider taking each song for what it is. You can't bring back
the past. If that's your goal, take out the old records. But expect that
whenever someone puts out something new, it's likely to sound different
from the parameters you've set up as "what is country." Because those
parameters are based on the past. Not the present or the future.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7kuqap$o2f$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> So what if she is from Canada, ever been to Western Canada? It's alot
> like the Western and Midwestern US. If she pushed herself as a pop
> artist with a country tinge then I might accept her more, but she is a
> pop artist that wants to fool you she is country..
>
>
She's from Ontario, which is Eastern Canada. From what I've read, she
pushes herself as an artist who wants to appeal to the broadest audience
possible. Which is what most performers want to do.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7kupqd$nti$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> True, but most of those bands stayed country. A good example is
> Alabama, a band that does mix rock and country, but the thing is they
> are still country style, not hip-hop, not pop, not homogenized NKOTB
> music, not something they aren't, they are country. The same goes for a
> few other groups in the past also. The thing I dont like about folks
> like Shania is that they seem to dump the country image, sound, and
> mannerisms in favor of the more palatable pop, dance, and hip-hop image.
>
Perhaps you haven't heard Alabama's new song. It's a country remake of
N'Sync's "God Must Have Spent a Little More Time On You," featuring the pop
band doing harmonies. The song features a very pop handclap machine as the
main rhythm track. I always find it interesting how Alabama has gotten
away with the stuff they've done, yet everyone accepts them as country.
About 13 years ago, they did a duet with Lionel Ritchie on "Deep River
Woman." This was one of the few Motown records ever to chart country. As
for dumping the "country image, sound, and mannerisms," are you talking
about hay bales and rope belts? If so, they were dumped a long time ago.
elen
Country Boy wrote
I always find it interesting how Alabama has gotten
> away with the stuff they've done, yet everyone accepts them as country.
Not everyone.
Elen
Country Boy
elen <ele...@mediaone.net> wrote in article
<3773BE6D...@mediaone.net>...
Ha! LOL! Perhaps, though, they're part of the reason why country changed
so much during the 80s. And after 20 years, they've become a standard,
rather than an exception.
elen
Country Boy wrote:
Can't argue with that--I actually enjoy a lot of their stuff, and have seen
their show a few times.
Although of late it's pretty much " same ole, same ole". Like a lot of the 80's
acts though, they had a few good country tunes that got them in the door, and
once inside they pretty much kissed country good bye. Now you don't even need a
country tune to get in the door. There's marketing and video people that can
fix that..
Elen
Country Boy
elen <ele...@mediaone.net> wrote in article
>
>
> Can't argue with that--I actually enjoy a lot of their stuff, and have
seen
> their show a few times.
> Although of late it's pretty much " same ole, same ole". Like a lot of
the 80's
> acts though, they had a few good country tunes that got them in the door,
and
> once inside they pretty much kissed country good bye. Now you don't even
need a
> country tune to get in the door. There's marketing and video people that
can
> fix that..
>
> Elen
>
>
I don't know...we can't fool you! And I'm sure you're not alone. As I've
often said, no amount of marketing can get people to buy something they
don't want. And the folks knocking on the door don't always have the money
for the marketing and videos. All they have is their song. If it works,
it works. If it doesn't, they go back to knocking on doors.
aux...@my-deja.com
> She's from Ontario, which is Eastern Canada. From what I've read, she
> pushes herself as an artist who wants to appeal to the broadest
audience
> possible. Which is what most performers want to do.
>
Well then she shouldn't have promoted herself as a country artist when
in reality she is a pop artist. Basically her music is good, but she is
sort of a hippocrite. If a pop artist wants to sing country, that is
fine, but they should promote themselves as a POP ARTIST. The majority
of Shania's most recent songs have about as much to do with country
music as fiddles and hay have to do with the Backstreet Boys. In my
opinion she sucks not because her singing is bad or her music is bad,
its that she promotes herself as one thing and she is really another.
aux...@my-deja.com
>
> This is why these posts about "what's country and what isn't" become
mired
> in flame wars. Everyone has their exceptions to these "rules." And
the
> constant complaints about "lack of variety" fail to reflect the fact
that
> country radio plays everything from 60s-style country to pop/country
to
> Chapin. And it always has. Which is why Anne Murray, Kenny Rogers,
Linda
> Ronstadt, and Olivia Newton-John all got country radio airplay 20
years
> ago, and why Shania Twain, Faith Hill, and others continue that
tradition
Those stations that do play more of the "old" country usually are not
on the air long or quickly change formats. I live in Seattle and there
was an "old" country station that I listened to for a while. I woke up
to listen to it before work and it was an R&B station. The same goes
for when I recently live in Florida, but it was a Pop station instead.
Basically, if I am getting this right, is that selling out to
popularity is better than making good country music. Folks like Shania
and the like who "sell-out" by quicky shoving any part of a country
image, be it sound or look under the rug in favor of a more palatable
pop image and sound. A post said that Alabama had done a lot of pop
songs and asked why they were still cosidered country. I say its
because they did not shove country under the rug, but used pop to
augment their style and sound, not to replace it. Maybe we need a new
genre of music.
elen
Country Boy wrote:
>
> I don't know...we can't fool you! And I'm sure you're not alone. As I've
> often said, no amount of marketing can get people to buy something they
> don't want. And the folks knocking on the door don't always have the money
> for the marketing and videos. All they have is their song. If it works,
> it works. If it doesn't, they go back to knocking on doors.
Ahhh--if only all it was about was the song.
Elen
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l10fs$hjf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
If you re-read my post, I never said that she's one thing or the other.
You're the one who's creating the definitions here. So by your definition,
she's pop. That's no reason that she should be forced to agree with you.
You can be country and popular. But I guess you can't be the kind of
country artist *you* want and be popular. You're making a bunch of rules
that artists should follow. Hey, it's their career. I'm sure you wouldn't
like it if an employer told you they wouldn't hire you because of how you
dressed or how they perceived you. She's just doing her thing, and the
people are responding. That's all that matters.
Country Boy
elen <ele...@mediaone.net> wrote in article
The song is a big part. But if you think videos and marketing are all it
takes, perhaps you should do a case study on South 65. They have a video
and marketing deal, and haven't had a Top 30 hit, nor have they sold many
records. They're cute, they have all the young girls, but it hasn't
translated to success in music. But at their age, perhaps that isn't as
important as having all the young girls.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l111k$hpf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>
>
> Basically, if I am getting this right, is that selling out to
> popularity is better than making good country music. Folks like Shania
> and the like who "sell-out" by quicky shoving any part of a country
> image, be it sound or look under the rug in favor of a more palatable
> pop image and sound. A post said that Alabama had done a lot of pop
> songs and asked why they were still cosidered country. I say its
> because they did not shove country under the rug, but used pop to
> augment their style and sound, not to replace it. Maybe we need a new
> genre of music.
>
You're too hung up on labels. It sounds to me that you like the old
country. Which is fine. It's not going anywhere, so it'll always be there
for you to enjoy. But there is no reason why today's artists have to keep
on re-creating it. It's already been done. It was great when Merle and
Jones did it. We all enjoyed it then, and we still enjoy it now. We pay
them homage whenever we can. But there *was* music before them, and
there'll be music after them. Shania was making music in 1993, and no one
was rushing out to buy it. Now she's selling well, so she's an easy
target. It's easy to call someone a sell-out when they're successful.
But if all it takes to sell 22 million records is to be like Shania, why
haven't more people come along and copied her? The answer is because it
isn't that easy.
Chris Bawden
Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the most
successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
Things Change (you know Dwight Yoakam), if they didn't then we'd be still
listening to Elvis, Hank Williams and Patsy Cline. Great Artists, but
wouldn't fit in with todays society. You're probably an old fart whose still
living in the 1930's anyway, so unless you know what the hell you are
talking about, keep your smelly arse out of this newsgroup.
Faith, Shania and Garth(yes, he does wear buckles and a hat, duh!!!) rule.
Yours FAITHfully
Garth Brooks
Aux wrote in message <3770...@news.gj.net>...
>I like country music, but for many reasons in the last few years my like
for
>it has decreased. Here are a few of my reasons
>
>
>1. modern male performers
>
> a. don't wear western style clothing such as jeans, cowboy boots,
>cowboy hats, buckles, etc.
>
>
> b. sing in a high pitched whiney voice
>
> c. look like preppie snobs.
>
> d. male performers that suck
>
> Bryan White
> Garth Brooks (I do think his music before "The Hits" album rules)
> any other that doesn't at least wear a cowboy hat or boots while
> performing.
>
>2. modern female performers
>
> a. too much T&A. I think that is their only selling point
>
> b. I can't decide, do I wanna sing pop music or country music.
>
> c. Female Performers that suck
>
> Shania Twain
> Faith Hill
> JoDee Mesina
> Dixie Chicks
> any other that is too pop oriented
>
>
>3. the music itself
>
> a. too pop oriented, has strayed way too far from its roots. The sad
>fact is that this is all you tend to hear on most country radio.
>
> b performers that I think hurt country music.
>
> Shania Twain & Garth Brooks
>
>
>
> Country performers that are great.
>
> Male- George Strait, Mark Chesnutt, Kenney Chesney, Joe Diffie, Tracy
>Byrd, Chris LeDoux.
>
>Female- Reba McEntire, Dolly Parton, LeAnn Rimes(too pop, but actually has
>singing talent).
Chris Bawden
bigt...@my-deja.com
"Chris Bawden" <shag...@cnl.com.au> wrote:
>
> you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the arse....
> Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the
most
> successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
Success doesnt always equal talent or artistic integrity. Sometimes it's
the result of an
audience, who as a collective are gulliable, have poor taste and
willing to hop on any bandwagon that passes their way.
Big Tex
Brian Whitt
"you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the arse....
Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the
wrote:"Success doesnt always equal talent or artistic integrity.
Sometimes it's the result of an audience, who as a collective are
gulliable, have poor taste and willing to hop on any bandwagon that
passes their way. "
If it was just one album with spectacular sales followed by an album
with less than spectacular sales then I would agree with Big Tex however
Garth, Shania, (not sure about Faith) have more than one album to have
multi-platinum sales therefore the conclusion must be made that at this
time Garth and Shania's quality of music must be superior to their
competition or Garth and Shania's quality music is only average and
therefore their competition's music at this time is below average or
un-satisfactory.
Country Boy
bigt...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l2qpf$1h7$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> In article <FD1d3.21$kY1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>,
> "Chris Bawden" <shag...@cnl.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the arse....
> > Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the
> most
> > successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
>
>
> Success doesnt always equal talent or artistic integrity. Sometimes it's
> the result of an
> audience, who as a collective are gulliable, have poor taste and
> willing to hop on any bandwagon that passes their way.
>
> Big Tex
>
And sometimes it's the result of artists who correctly gauge what the
public wants and then combine it with talent and integrity. It's an
unbeatable combination. Because to acheive the kind of success that Garth,
Shania and Faith have achieved is hardly a fad.
aux...@my-deja.com
I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is a
lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
under the rug most of the time and those artists like Shania and Garth,
whether or not they are the ones participating in the under-shoving,
are the ones in the limelight, the leaders of the industry, the ones
that many below them in the industry strive to be as successful as. As
for being an old fart, I still have about 40 years till I'm even close
to being an old fart. I often wonder why I would even respond to your
post with all of the childish insults. As for the artists, Faith Hill
was very country in her first album, now she is more pop country, but
the pop is being promoted more than the country. I think Shania's first
album was more country than her last two, making her a country artist
from the start. The same goes for her, she was country, added some pop
sound, now the pop is more important than the country. Garth is one of
the few exceptions, but I do think that his first three albums, Garth
Brooks, No Fences, and Ropin' The Wind, were his best works.
BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I cant
remember when.
In article <FD1d3.21$kY1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>,
"Chris Bawden" <shag...@cnl.com.au> wrote:
>
> you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the arse....
> Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the
most
> successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
> Things Change (you know Dwight Yoakam), if they didn't then we'd be
still
> listening to Elvis, Hank Williams and Patsy Cline. Great Artists, but
> wouldn't fit in with todays society. You're probably an old fart
whose still
> living in the 1930's anyway, so unless you know what the hell you are
> talking about, keep your smelly arse out of this newsgroup.
>
> Faith, Shania and Garth(yes, he does wear buckles and a hat, duh!!!)
rule.
> Yours FAITHfully
> Garth Brooks
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
You can be entirely country and be popular without all of the pop
glitz. Shania has a style that works and makes her popular. The problem
is that the rest of country seems to be copying her and taking country
music down the drain. There is nothing wrong with Shania's style or
singing, but its the copy-cats in the industry that I have a problem
with, Shania is just in the limelight more. Shania made a good addition
to the country scene in the start, she had originality, now where is
the originality when every one sounds and acts like her. We need more
fiddle and hay country, just as we need folks like Shania with a more
pop image and sound. Who is in the limelight in country? The pop style
artists or the fiddle and hay artists?
aux...@my-deja.com
> You're too hung up on labels. It sounds to me that you like the old
> country. Which is fine. It's not going anywhere, so it'll always be
there
> for you to enjoy. But there is no reason why today's artists have to
keep
> on re-creating it. It's already been done. It was great when Merle
and
> Jones did it. We all enjoyed it then, and we still enjoy it now. We
pay
> them homage whenever we can. But there *was* music before them, and
> there'll be music after them. Shania was making music in 1993, and
no one
> was rushing out to buy it. Now she's selling well, so she's an easy
> target. It's easy to call someone a sell-out when they're
successful.
> But if all it takes to sell 22 million records is to be like Shania,
why
> haven't more people come along and copied her? The answer is because
it
> isn't that easy.
>
shove it under the rug either. As for liking the old country, for the
most part, I hate it. The county I like is like artists like Alan
Jackson, George Strait, Reba McEntire, Alabama, Diamond Rio etc. The
ones that I don't like are ones like Bryan White, Shania Twain, Dixie
Chicks, Faith Hill, etc. Shania was making music in 1993 and that music
for the most part was country, but as I saw in a VH-1 documentary, she
said that it was not her, pop seems to fit her better. ...lots of folks
have copied Shania in some way or another, just look at the current
trend of country music. Country music from 5 or 6 years ago has a
totally different style and sound than from what we have today. When I
listen to country radio, I don't want to hear the latest rendition
of "Whoomp There It Is!", I want to hear country. Take the minimal
fiddle and steel guitar sound out of many modern country songs and
you'd have a very good pop song, do that with a "real" country song.
aux...@my-deja.com
"Country Boy" <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>
> bigt...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l2qpf$1h7
$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > In article <FD1d3.21$kY1....@nsw.nnrp.telstra.net>,
> > "Chris Bawden" <shag...@cnl.com.au> wrote:
> > >
> > > you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the
arse....
> > > Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of
the
> > most
> > > successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
In other words, they SOLD OUT in the name of popularity. George Strait
has been around for years, has kept pretty much the same style, and is
still very popular. Sell out artists are popular, but they aren't
necessarily the best. Garth sold out in 1994, Shania sold out in 1996,
and numerous others have done the same. I wonder when the whole
industry will sell out? I'd say it's pretty close to doing so already.
> >
> >
> > Success doesnt always equal talent or artistic integrity. Sometimes
it's
> > the result of an
> > audience, who as a collective are gulliable, have poor taste and
> > willing to hop on any bandwagon that passes their way.
> >
> > Big Tex
> >
> And sometimes it's the result of artists who correctly gauge what the
> public wants and then combine it with talent and integrity. It's an
> unbeatable combination. Because to acheive the kind of success that
Garth,
> Shania and Faith have achieved is hardly a fad.
>
>
Ted Holder
> Hey,
> I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is a
> lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
> under the rug most of the time and those artists like Shania and Garth,
> whether or not they are the ones participating in the under-shoving,
> are the ones in the limelight, the leaders of the industry, the ones
> that many below them in the industry strive to be as successful as. As
> for being an old fart, I still have about 40 years till I'm even close
> to being an old fart. I often wonder why I would even respond to your
> post with all of the childish insults. As for the artists, Faith Hill
> was very country in her first album, now she is more pop country, but
> the pop is being promoted more than the country. I think Shania's first
> album was more country than her last two, making her a country artist
> from the start. The same goes for her, she was country, added some pop
> sound, now the pop is more important than the country. Garth is one of
> the few exceptions, but I do think that his first three albums, Garth
> Brooks, No Fences, and Ropin' The Wind, were his best works.
>
> BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I cant
> remember when.
>
looking thing over her head, which, by the way, doesn't impress me *much*. Faith, Shania and Garth really do rule, on the outhouse
throne. That's MY opinion of their music.
Ted Holder
> "Chris Bawden" <shag...@cnl.com.au> wrote:
> >
> > you obviously don't know a good tune if it bites you up the arse....
> > Faith Hill, Shania Twain and Garth Brooks just happen to be 3 of the
> most
> > successfull COUNTRY Artists of the 1990's.
Beccalynn
<aux...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7l33ra$48g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I cant
> remember when.
>
In the video "That Don't Impress Me *Much*" she has a leopard skin
looking thing over her head, which, by the way, doesn't impress me *much*.
On the album pictures for, "The Woman In Me" she has a hat on. A real live
cowboy hat...LOL
BTW, I didn't like the TDIMM video either...nor the "Robert Palmer Ripoff"
for "Man I Feel Like A Woman". I used to like Shania...and I still like some
of her stuff. But now....well...to use her own words, "That Don't Impress Me
Much". I liked her better when she was more "country" sounding and less pop.
Becky
Last night I lay in bed
looking up at the stars in the sky
and I thought to myself,
"Where the heck is the ceiling?!"
aux...@my-deja.com
"Beccalynn" <pt...@cyberhighway.net> wrote:
> Ted Holder wrote in message ...
> <aux...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7l33ra$48g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I
cant
> > remember when.
> >
> In the video "That Don't Impress Me *Much*" she has a leopard skin
> looking thing over her head, which, by the way, doesn't impress me
*much*.
>
> On the album pictures for, "The Woman In Me" she has a hat on. A real
live
> cowboy hat...LOL
>
> BTW, I didn't like the TDIMM video either...nor the "Robert Palmer
Ripoff"
> for "Man I Feel Like A Woman". I used to like Shania...and I still
like some
> of her stuff. But now....well...to use her own words, "That Don't
Impress Me
> Much". I liked her better when she was more "country" sounding and
less pop.
>
> Becky
>
>
Sort of like the "Who's Bed Have Your Boots Been Under" song.
Scott
>
> If it was just one album with spectacular sales followed by an album
> with less than spectacular sales then I would agree with Big Tex however
> Garth, Shania, (not sure about Faith) have more than one album to have
> multi-platinum sales therefore the conclusion must be made that at this
> time Garth and Shania's quality of music must be superior to their
> competition or Garth and Shania's quality music is only average and
> therefore their competition's music at this time is below average or
> un-satisfactory.
Were you asleep during the English class about run-on sentences?
Try to be succinct: Quality does not equal quantity.
In fact, quantity is typically lower quality, as in:
McDonald's
Garth and Faith
Your run-on sentence above
Scott
>
> >
> >In other words, they SOLD OUT in the name of popularity. George Strait has
> been around for years, has kept pretty much the same style, and is still very
> popular. Sell out artists are popular, but they aren't
> necessarily the best. Garth sold out in 1994, Shania sold out in 1996, and
> numerous others have done the same. I wonder when the whole industry will sell
> out? I'd say it's pretty close to doing so already.
> >
> >
> Plate Pete, Fiddlin' Cowan Powers, and others, who when faced with the choice
> of adapting to the times or falling into obscurity made the noble choice.
Bill I'm using this example because it relates to country, not your
screen-name. But couldn't there be just as many artists who "sold out"
and never went anywhere either? I'm thinking of all the rockabilly Elvis
copiers that aren't famous today, or even back then.
> Personally, I always thought a musicain who didn't adapt his music to changing
> tastes lacked professionalism, a respect for the public, and was commiting a
> form of career suicide. Sure, there are exceptions, but they are few and far
> between. Most just lost their fan base and ended up with their families
> collecting food stamps - but, they did maintain their integrity.
Personally I have the utmost respect and admiration for those who don't
sell out. Ray Price may be a good example. His music was so good until
he went pop. His pre-pop songs are some of my favorites. But I have no
respect for the guy whatsoever, and could really care less about him.
Although Alison Krauss isn't one of my favorites by any means, I think
she deserves much respect for not selling out.
Brian Whitt
In fact, quantity is typically lower quality, as in: McDonald's
Garth and Faith
Your run-on sentence above
Gee Scott , I belive the context that you are using "your" does not
require a capital letter, and I do belive you should have put a comma
between "McDonald's" and "Garth" and also between "Faith" and "Your" and
oh yeah I am pretty sure you are supposed end a sentence with a period
which you failed to do as quoted above.
I noticed you did not mention Shania in
quanity / quality / McDonald's analogy so I guess you are admitting
Shania's music is of superior quality than most of the current crop
country music being released today.
As far as McDonald's goes.........
You can't stay in business since the late
1950's and go on to comprise 1/30th of the Dow Jones Industrial Average
by selling an inferior product.
KevJCoyne
>Hey,
>I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is a
>lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
>under the rug most of the time and those artists like Shania and Garth,
>whether or not they are the ones participating in the under-shoving,
>are the ones in the limelight, the leaders of the industry, the ones
>that many below them in the industry strive to be as successful as. As
>for being an old fart, I still have about 40 years till I'm even close
>to being an old fart. I often wonder why I would even respond to your
>post with all of the childish insults. As for the artists, Faith Hill
>was very country in her first album, now she is more pop country, but
>the pop is being promoted more than the country. I think Shania's first
>album was more country than her last two, making her a country artist
>from the start. The same goes for her, she was country, added some pop
>sound, now the pop is more important than the country. Garth is one of
>the few exceptions, but I do think that his first three albums, Garth
>Brooks, No Fences, and Ropin' The Wind, were his best works.
>
>remember when.
She wears one on the back cover of TWIM.
-----------------------------------
Kevin J. Coyne
"What a great honor. I really am surprised. I thought I'd have to be as old
as Roy Acuff or as ugly as Willie Nelson to get in the Hall of Fame." - Dolly
Parton
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l33ra$48g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> Hey,
> I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is a
> lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
> under the rug most of the time
Really? Perhaps you're listening to the wrong newer country artists. Have
you tried Sara Evans? How about Brad Paisley? Or maybe Deryl Dodd?
Obviously not. Before you attack all new country artists, give a listen to
just these three.
>
> BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I cant
> remember when.
>
I've never seen Vince Gill wear a hat. So I guess he's too pop for you.
Same with George Jones. When was the last time *he* wore a hat? What, and
ruin that fine hairdo?
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l34p5$4i6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> You can be entirely country and be popular without all of the pop
> glitz. Shania has a style that works and makes her popular. The problem
> is that the rest of country seems to be copying her and taking country
> music down the drain.
Like who? I don't see a lot of people copying Shania. And face it...her
style is pretty obvious. Once again, maybe you're listening to the wrong
people. The people in the limelight right now would be The Dixie Chicks,
who play dobros, fiddles, and banjos. Those sound like country instruments
to me. By the way, when was the last time you actually saw a farm?
bigt...@my-deja.com
> If it was just one album with spectacular sales followed by an album
> with less than spectacular sales then I would agree with Big Tex
however
> Garth, Shania, (not sure about Faith) have more than one album to have
> multi-platinum sales therefore the conclusion must be made that at
this
> time Garth and Shania's quality of music must be superior to their
> competition or Garth and Shania's quality music is only average and
> therefore their competition's music at this time is below average or
> un-satisfactory.
>
In my book, selling billions of albums is no indication of talent
either. It simpily means that the "artist" has been lucky with their
marketing. If Garth, Shania & Faith are the top of the pile then I sure
don't want to hear the rest.
I quit listening to country radio a couple of years ago, after getting
fed up with hearing the same old dreck over and over again. When they
start playing artists who play REAL country again, then maybe I'll tune
back in.
Big Tex
bigt...@my-deja.com
bigt...@my-deja.com
bigt...@my-deja.com
> If it was just one album with spectacular sales followed by an album
> with less than spectacular sales then I would agree with Big Tex
however
> Garth, Shania, (not sure about Faith) have more than one album to have
> multi-platinum sales therefore the conclusion must be made that at
this
> time Garth and Shania's quality of music must be superior to their
> competition or Garth and Shania's quality music is only average and
> therefore their competition's music at this time is below average or
> un-satisfactory.
>
>
Just because an "artist" sells billions of albums it doesn't necessarily
mean they are truly talented. It generally means that they are being
marketed extremely well. Garth could put out a cd of burps and farts and
it would still be a number one album because millions of idiots would
buy it. If Garth, Shania & Faith are the best country has to offer then
I sure don't want to hear the worst.
aux...@my-deja.com
rocka...@aol.com (Rockabi101) wrote:
> >Personally I have the utmost respect and admiration for those who
don't sell
> out. Ray Price may be a good example. His music was so good until
he went
> pop. His pre-pop songs are some of my favorites. But I have no
respect for
> the guy whatsoever, and could really care less about him. Although
Alison
> Krauss isn't one of my favorites by any means, I think
> she deserves much respect for not selling out.
> >
>
> >
answer.
>
> You're right on Ray Price. He was a great country artist. Now, he's
a great
> pop artist. Alison, on the other hand, is a strange situation. She
has a
> repertoire that includes Foundations songs, INXS songs, etc. but
she's so darn
> pure that we accept them as country.
>
> OK, you used a couple good examples, but i still think that the
primary role of
> performer is to be an entertainer. That means, perform ion a manner
that is
> entertaining for the audience. If you had a big hit that the
audience expects
> and anticipates, you have a responsibility to perform that song. If
you're
> performace is dated and has lost its appeal to the general audience,
you have a
> responsibility as a performer to provide the public with the best show
> possible, as determined by the needs of the paying audience.
>
> The above is also a reason I seldom attack country radio. i may not
always
> liek what they put on (though it is head and shoulders above country
of the
> 70s), but I recognize they are providing for the tastes of the
greater number
> of listeners and that moldy figs like myself are a declingin
minority. Heck,
> almost nobody plays a Riley Puckett cut anymore.
>
>
Well I guess country radio has sold out too. Homogenizing a style of
music just to make it more popular to the masses is not right. Getting
rid of the fiddles, the steel guitars, and the twang in country and
replacing it with sythesizers, drum machines, and no twang isn't right
either. Keep country music country and don't dumb it down so some poor
folks who can't appreciate real country music can like it.
aux...@my-deja.com
>
> Were you asleep during the English class about run-on sentences?
>
> Try to be succinct: Quality does not equal quantity.
>
> In fact, quantity is typically lower quality, as in:
> McDonald's
> Garth and Faith
> Your run-on sentence above
>
aux...@my-deja.com
"Country Boy" <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>
> aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l33ra$48g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > Hey,
> > I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is
a
> > lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
> > under the rug most of the time
>
> Really? Perhaps you're listening to the wrong newer country
artists. Have
> you tried Sara Evans? How about Brad Paisley? Or maybe Deryl Dodd?
> Obviously not. Before you attack all new country artists, give a
listen to
> just these three.
>
Well when the majority of the time country radio is playing stuff like
Shania, Faith, and pop country, I sort of get sick of listening to it
and switch the station. Maybe I will give those artists you mentioned a
shot at my discerning ear. I have heard of Sara Evans and Deryl Dodd,
but not Brad Paisley. I am pretty sure that there are lot of what I
view as real country artists that are new, but the problem is is that
folks like Shania are the ones in the spotlight, the ones that when you
mention country music, folks think of.
> > BTW- I have seen Faith in a hat and Garth in a hat, but Shania, I
cant
> > remember when.
> >
>
> I've never seen Vince Gill wear a hat. So I guess he's too pop for
you.
> Same with George Jones. When was the last time *he* wore a hat?
What, and
> ruin that fine hairdo?
I like Vince Gill, even though he did start out pop (Pure Prairie
League). Hats are an integral part of country, but not a necessary one.
George Jones is pure country and so is Vince Gill. The problem I have
with a few of the current artists that don't wear hats is that their
style and mannerisms aren't even country. Look at Bryan White who looks
more like he belongs with the Backstreet Boys except for his slight
southern accent. I saw some other dude similar to him on CMT one time.
Those are the dudes that I say are not country, not the ones like Vince
Gill, Conway Twitty, George Jones, Travis Tritt, etc.
aux...@my-deja.com
>
> Like who? I don't see a lot of people copying Shania. And face
it...her
> style is pretty obvious. Once again, maybe you're listening to the
wrong
> people. The people in the limelight right now would be The Dixie
Chicks,
> who play dobros, fiddles, and banjos. Those sound like country
instruments
> to me. By the way, when was the last time you actually saw a farm?
>
>
Maybe I should have said that country in general is copying her by
going more pop. As for the Dixie Chicks, I heard the name so much and
the songs so much on the radio I got sick of them. The same goes for
that "Boots Under The Bed" song that Shania sings. I liked it, but
heard it too much on the radio and got sick of it.
BTW- As for seeing the farm, right next door.
Shadowspawn
Country Boy <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote in message
news:01bec04f$a4020de0$71b6fcd1@default...
>
> Really? Perhaps you're listening to the wrong newer country artists.
Have
> you tried Sara Evans? How about Brad Paisley? Or maybe Deryl Dodd?
> Obviously not. Before you attack all new country artists, give a listen
to
> just these three.
>
>
people. Maybe it's because the radio stations only play the same 4 songs
over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
over.
KevJCoyne
>In my book, selling billions of albums is no indication of talent
>either. It simpily means that the "artist" has been lucky with their
>marketing.
I don't equate album sales with talent either, but there's only so much
marketing can do. Garth, Shania and Faith have all found their audiences. No
amount of marketing can make somebody by a record they don't want. "Come On
Over," for example, has sold consistently since it's release (it sold 172,000
it's first week; in it's 85th week, it sold 132,000) on the strength of
mega-hits like "You're Still The One." Garth is a better example than Shania
for saying marketing is selling the music. He does huge ad campaigns,
schedules releases around the time people need to buy presents, and has huge
opening week sales. However, once the marketing campaign dies down and only
the music is left to sell his records, sales drop off quickly. It may have
sold 800,000 copies it's first week, but "Sevens" didn't make any lasting
impact. It didn't even produce a strong recurrent hit.
daileyk
in more than one flavor. That is why sometimes songs cross over so well.I
realize also that the artist (or their promotion people can sometimes do this
with their art form also,cause promotion is an art in itself) can cause a
crossover with just their style and/or voice. But I still go back to the song
as the key to the whole shebang.All new artists are looking for that one song
that will get them started.The successful artists are looking for that one
song to chart for them again.
But like Matthew,I like that good song.
Matthew Becker wrote:
> Actually, I'm greatful for your opinion. I came into country music 2 years
> ago for the same reason, and skipped all the songs that were "too country".
> Now, I love all types of country, from Garth to George to anyone else
> that'll write me a good song :)
>
> --Matthew
Scott
>
> I noticed you did not mention Shania in
> quanity / quality / McDonald's analogy so I guess you are admitting
> Shania's music is of superior quality than most of the current crop
> country music being released today.
I suppose the quality is OK for pop, but it's not country. And you need
to learn how to spell.
> As far as McDonald's goes.........
> You can't stay in business since the late
> 1950's and go on to comprise 1/30th of the Dow Jones Industrial Average
> by selling an inferior product.
If you think McDonald's is in any way "superior" or "quality", then that
says a lot about your taste.
Scott
>
> aux...@my-deja.com wrote ...
> > Hey,
> > I happen to like a lot of those artists songs. The thing is that is a
> > lot of newer country artists are shoving the country sound and image
> > under the rug most of the time
>
> you tried Sara Evans? How about Brad Paisley? Or maybe Deryl Dodd?
> Obviously not. Before you attack all new country artists, give a listen to
> just these three.
Yes, we should be "attacking" "country" radio, because they are
letting Shania, Faith, and Garth drown out Sara Evans, Deryl Dodd, and
Brad Paisley. And David Ball and Matt King.
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l4m96$jch$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>
> Well I guess country radio has sold out too. Homogenizing a style of
> music just to make it more popular to the masses is not right. Getting
> rid of the fiddles, the steel guitars, and the twang in country and
> replacing it with sythesizers, drum machines, and no twang isn't right
> either. Keep country music country and don't dumb it down so some poor
> folks who can't appreciate real country music can like it.
>
>
What are you talking about? Do you actually listen to country music, or
are you just posting here because you like starting arguements? Even the
most pop-oriented country artists use steel guitar and fiddles in their
music. Some even use banjo, dobro, and mandolin. And the guy who took
twang out of country was Owen Bradley. There have been sythesizers and
drum machines in country music for 25 years. Ronnie Milsap was one of the
first. You make it sound like all this happened yesterday. And as for
your last sentence, are you serious?
Country Boy
aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l4nbe$jjh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >
> Well when the majority of the time country radio is playing stuff like
> Shania, Faith, and pop country, I sort of get sick of listening to it
> and switch the station. Maybe I will give those artists you mentioned a
> shot at my discerning ear. I have heard of Sara Evans and Deryl Dodd,
> but not Brad Paisley. I am pretty sure that there are lot of what I
> view as real country artists that are new, but the problem is is that
> folks like Shania are the ones in the spotlight, the ones that when you
> mention country music, folks think of.
>
>
Shania's tour will end this week. She'll be out of the spotlight for a
while, working on her next album. Perhaps other artists will take the
opportunity of taking over the spotlight. In the mentime, go to a record
store and buy some country music before you make sweeping generalizations.
> I like Vince Gill, even though he did start out pop (Pure Prairie
> League).
Vince Gill *didn't* start out in Pure Prairie League!!!! He started out in
bluegrass.
>Hats are an integral part of country, but not a necessary one.
How do they help you play country music? I've seen alternative rock
artists wear cowboy hats. Does that mean they're country? A lot of
southern rock bands wore cowboy hats. If you live in cattle country, a lot
of people wear cowboy hats because (get this) they're actually cowboys. It
has nothing to do with the music they like. You must be a lot of fun
around Halloween.
> George Jones is pure country and so is Vince Gill. The problem I have
> with a few of the current artists that don't wear hats is that their
> style and mannerisms aren't even country. Look at Bryan White who looks
> more like he belongs with the Backstreet Boys except for his slight
> southern accent. I saw some other dude similar to him on CMT one time.
> Those are the dudes that I say are not country, not the ones like Vince
> Gill, Conway Twitty, George Jones, Travis Tritt, etc.
>
>
So based on that, you've made sweeping generalizations about what country
artists should look like and what they should wear. Yet when I bring up
examples of others who don't wear hats, you say they're OK. If you're
going to come up with exact criteria, and compare everyone to them, you
can't keep coming up with exceptions. And discriminating against a singer
because he looks young is just plain stupid.
Country Boy
Shadowspawn <kb...@ptdprolog.net> wrote in article
<Murd3.3768$I72.4...@nnrp1.ptd.net>...
>
> Country Boy <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote in message
> news:01bec04f$a4020de0$71b6fcd1@default...
> >
> > Really? Perhaps you're listening to the wrong newer country artists.
> Have
> > you tried Sara Evans? How about Brad Paisley? Or maybe Deryl Dodd?
> > Obviously not. Before you attack all new country artists, give a
listen
> to
> > just these three.
> >
> >
> WHO? WHO? AND AGAIN WHO? I'm sorroy but I've never heard of any of these
> people. Maybe it's because the radio stations only play the same 4 songs
> over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and
> over.
>
>
And I'm sorry, but there is no country radio station that only plays four
songs. Don't blame others...go out and seek out the music you like. If
what you want isn't on the radio, find it someplace else. Brad's song is
getting a lot of play on CMT. And he's touring all over the country.
Scott
>
> >Personally I have the utmost respect and admiration for those who don't sell
> out. Ray Price may be a good example. His music was so good until he went
> pop. His pre-pop songs are some of my favorites. But I have no respect for
> the guy whatsoever, and could really care less about him. Although Alison
> Krauss isn't one of my favorites by any means, I think
> she deserves much respect for not selling out.
> >
>
> >
> Dammit, Scott, must yopu always use excellent examples to frame your answer.
Thanks! 8^)
> You're right on Ray Price. He was a great country artist. Now, he's a great
> pop artist. Alison, on the other hand, is a strange situation. She has a
> repertoire that includes Foundations songs, INXS songs, etc. but she's so darn
> pure that we accept them as country.
>
> OK, you used a couple good examples, but i still think that the primary role of
> performer is to be an entertainer. That means, perform ion a manner that is
> entertaining for the audience. If you had a big hit that the audience expects
> and anticipates, you have a responsibility to perform that song. If you're
> performace is dated and has lost its appeal to the general audience, you have a
> responsibility as a performer to provide the public with the best show
> possible, as determined by the needs of the paying audience.
I see what you're saying. Here's another way to think of it. The
audience accepted and supported country music, and now the pop sellouts
are pulling the rug out from under them.
Brian Whitt
If you think McDonald's is in any way "superior" or "quality", then that
says a lot about your taste.
McDonald's may not be to your taste but their biggest selling item does
have the components to be classified as a hamburger.
Shania's music may not be to your taste but but at least half her music
does have the components (or at least as much as Glen Campbell or Kenny
Rogers material did) to be classified as country.
KevJCoyne
>Shania's tour will end this week. She'll be out of the spotlight for a
>while, working on her next album.
Her tour is ending in early July, but she's not going away just yet. A video
for "Come On Over," the 9th single that will go to country radio, was just
filmed. She will also be releasing a Christmas album this fall. She won't be
taking time off until next year.
Brian Whitt
How do they help you play country music? I've seen alternative rock
artists wear cowboy hats. Does that mean they're country? A lot of
southern rock bands wore cowboy hats. If you live in cattle country, a
lot
of people wear cowboy hats because (get this) they're actually cowboys.
It
has nothing to do with the music they like. You must be a lot of fun
around Halloween.
I thought country music artists wore cowboy hats so they would have a
place to put their burrito when they went to the restroom....... =:-)
aux...@my-deja.com
"Country Boy" <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>
> aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l4m96$jch$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> >
> > Well I guess country radio has sold out too. Homogenizing a style of
> > music just to make it more popular to the masses is not right.
Getting
> > rid of the fiddles, the steel guitars, and the twang in country and
> > replacing it with sythesizers, drum machines, and no twang isn't
right
> > either. Keep country music country and don't dumb it down so some
poor
> > folks who can't appreciate real country music can like it.
> >
> >
> What are you talking about?
The sad state of much of current country music and country radio.
Do you actually listen to country music, or
> are you just posting here because you like starting arguements?
No arguments, just what I think is a legitimate complaint. As for
listening to country music, every day, but more likeley to my own CD's
and not country radio. The last CD's I boght were Diamond Rio-
Unbelievable and Aaron Tippin- Greatest Hits. Most of my CD collection,
about 70% is country music.
Even the
> most pop-oriented country artists use steel guitar and fiddles in
their
> music.
That "Feel Like A Woman" song by Shania with the sythesized fiddle
sound doesn't cut it. You need real fiddles, not fake ones. Alabama is
one semi-pop oriented country group that does use fiddles and steel
guitar in a lot of their songs, but they know how to keep it country.
Some even use banjo, dobro, and mandolin. And the guy who took
> twang out of country was Owen Bradley. There have been sythesizers
and
> drum machines in country music for 25 years.
True, Restless Heart was a good example of a pop country group that
used synthsizers and drum machines. The one thing is that their music
was actually good and original, not like some of the crap today.
Ronnie Milsap was one of the
> first. You make it sound like all this happened yesterday.
Ronnie Milsap was of that late 70's pop country era, along with Dolly
Parton, Kenny Rogers, Crystal Gayle, Exile, Barbara Mandrell, etc.
These folks were are for the most part still are good artists, but
folks back then got sick of the pop sound in country and wanted a more
traditional sound, and along comes folks like Ricky Skaggs and George
Strait. And no, it did not happen yesterday. It's just today it's
bigger.
And as for
> your last sentence, are you serious?
As serious as fire is hot!
aux...@my-deja.com
An analysis of Shania's three albums.
First- 80-90% country
Second- 50-70% country
Third- 10-20% country
You see, the further along she goes, the more pop she gets and the less
country she is. Which probably means she really isn't a country artist
at all, a good artist, but not a country one.
aux...@my-deja.com
>
> In my book, selling billions of albums is no indication of talent
> either. It simpily means that the "artist" has been lucky with their
sure
> don't want to hear the rest.
> I quit listening to country radio a couple of years ago, after getting
> fed up with hearing the same old dreck over and over again. When they
> start playing artists who play REAL country again, then maybe I'll
tune
> back in.
>
> Big Tex
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about.
aux...@my-deja.com
kevj...@aol.com (KevJCoyne) wrote:
> Bigtex001:
> >In my book, selling billions of albums is no indication of talent
> >either. It simpily means that the "artist" has been lucky with their
> >marketing.
>
much
> marketing can do. Garth, Shania and Faith have all found their
audiences. No
> amount of marketing can make somebody by a record they don't
want. "Come On
> Over," for example, has sold consistently since it's release (it sold
172,000
> it's first week; in it's 85th week, it sold 132,000) on the strength
of
> mega-hits like "You're Still The One."
"You're Still The One" is a pop song, not a country song. This is the
crap that I am talking about that is being pushed as country on country
radio. Luckily the first time I heard that song it was on a pop
station.
aux...@my-deja.com
"Country Boy" <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>
>
> aux...@my-deja.com wrote in article <7l4nbe$jjh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> > >
> > Well when the majority of the time country radio is playing stuff
like
> > Shania, Faith, and pop country, I sort of get sick of listening to
it
> > and switch the station. Maybe I will give those artists you
mentioned a
> > shot at my discerning ear. I have heard of Sara Evans and Deryl
Dodd,
> > but not Brad Paisley. I am pretty sure that there are lot of what I
> > view as real country artists that are new, but the problem is is
that
> > folks like Shania are the ones in the spotlight, the ones that when
you
> > mention country music, folks think of.
> >
> >
>
a
> opportunity of taking over the spotlight. In the mentime, go to a
record
> store and buy some country music before you make sweeping
generalizations.
>
Hey, the last two albums I bought this month were country, Diamond Rio
and Aaron Tippin
> > I like Vince Gill, even though he did start out pop (Pure Prairie
> > League).
>
> Vince Gill *didn't* start out in Pure Prairie League!!!! He started
out in
> bluegrass.
>
Oops, my mistake. I guess he got his big start with PPL.
> >Hats are an integral part of country, but not a necessary one.
>
> How do they help you play country music? I've seen alternative rock
> artists wear cowboy hats. Does that mean they're country? A lot of
> southern rock bands wore cowboy hats. If you live in cattle country,
a lot
> of people wear cowboy hats because (get this) they're actually
cowboys.
They don't help, it's part of the act. I have too seen the alternative
acts, a hat is a hat. It's just that cowboy hats are what most folks
think of when you mention country. Boy, that last sentence sure is a
good one. As a matter of fact I live very, very close to cattle
country. All I have to do is drive about 40 miles to the nearest
ranching town and I am there, hats, boots, and all the rest. Ever heard
of a goat-roper?
It
> has nothing to do with the music they like. You must be a lot of fun
> around Halloween.
>
???? halloween is for children.
> > George Jones is pure country and so is Vince Gill. The problem I
have
> > with a few of the current artists that don't wear hats is that their
> > style and mannerisms aren't even country. Look at Bryan White who
looks
> > more like he belongs with the Backstreet Boys except for his slight
> > southern accent. I saw some other dude similar to him on CMT one
time.
> > Those are the dudes that I say are not country, not the ones like
Vince
> > Gill, Conway Twitty, George Jones, Travis Tritt, etc.
> >
> >
> So based on that, you've made sweeping generalizations about what
country
> artists should look like and what they should wear. Yet when I bring
up
> examples of others who don't wear hats, you say they're OK.
Those artists that I mentioned don't look, sing, or act like the belong
in NKOTB or the Backstreet Boys. Listen to a song or watch a video by
someone like Conway Twitty or George Jones and then listen to a song or
watch a video by Bryan White. Hopefully you'll see and hear what I am
talking about.
If you're
> going to come up with exact criteria, and compare everyone to them,
you
> can't keep coming up with exceptions. And discriminating against a
singer
> because he looks young is just plain stupid.
Young, that is not the point. It is the singing style, the act, the
mannerisms, etc. of someone like Bryan White that make him something I
dont like, not the fact that he is young. It's just that even though
someone like Conway Twitty rarely wore a hat, he still looked and acted
country, while B.W. looks and acts more like the Backstreet Boys.
KevJCoyne
Luckily? What would you have done if you heard it on country radio first?
KevJCoyne
aux wrote:
>An analysis of Shania's three albums.
>
>First- 80-90% country
>
>Second- 50-70% country
>
>Third- 10-20% country
>
>You see, the further along she goes, the more pop she gets and the less
>country she is. Which probably means she really isn't a country artist
>at all, a good artist, but not a country one.
Thank goodness you had figures to prove your argument. Here I was, totally
unsure of the country content of Shania's albums, and you've had percentages
all along! So what exactly was your formula for deducing country content?
Number of fiddles divided by # of steel guitar solos?
Brian Whitt
An analysis of Shania's three albums.
First- 80-90% country
Second- 50-70% country
Third- 10-20% country
You see, the further along she goes, the more pop she gets and the less
country she is. Which probably means she really isn't a country artist
at all, a good artist, but not a country one.
WOW!!!!!!!!!
That is really a fascinating analysis of how you derived a country
content percentage. What did you use for your analysis a
Ouija Board or the magic "8" ball ?
JimBob93
impressed me much, to quote someone else who isn't impressin' me much these
days.
Radio seems to be getting better about having the song matter rather than
the name on the CD - it isn't totally uncommon in the last couple of years
to see an artist follow up a top 10 with a non-charting single. Especially
in the early part of this decade, if you could break through the
over-saturation of new artists and get played, your next few songs (at
least) would also get airplay.
JimBob93
Country Boy <UDL...@prodigy.com> wrote in article
<01bebf8b$72c009e0$1b1ffcd1@default>...
>
>
> elen <ele...@mediaone.net> wrote in article
> <3773FB60...@mediaone.net>...
> >
> >
> > Country Boy wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I don't know...we can't fool you! And I'm sure you're not alone. As
> I've
> > > often said, no amount of marketing can get people to buy something
they
> > > don't want. And the folks knocking on the door don't always have the
> money
> > > for the marketing and videos. All they have is their song. If it
> works,
> > > it works. If it doesn't, they go back to knocking on doors.
> >
> > Ahhh--if only all it was about was the song.
> >
> > Elen
> >
> >
>
> The song is a big part. But if you think videos and marketing are all it
> takes, perhaps you should do a case study on South 65. They have a video
> and marketing deal, and haven't had a Top 30 hit, nor have they sold many
> records. They're cute, they have all the young girls, but it hasn't
> translated to success in music. But at their age, perhaps that isn't as
> important as having all the young girls.
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
do when Shania is on. I actually used to like her, that is until she
was overplayed and started going more and more pop, but the emphasis is
on overplayed.
> Luckily? What would you have done if you heard it on country radio
first?
> -----------------------------------
> Kevin J. Coyne
> "What a great honor. I really am surprised. I thought I'd have to
be as old
> as Roy Acuff or as ugly as Willie Nelson to get in the Hall of
Fame." - Dolly
> Parton
>
> www.hillary4senate.org
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
Well, lets see. I used my memory of what songs I have heard off of each
album. The first one had I don't remember much. The second one had a
few good country tunes like "Who's Boots Have Your Boots Been Under"
and the last one had many more pop songs. The fact is that if you
listen to all three of her albums, you see a definite decline in the
country content. She isnt a bad artist, she just shouldn't be portrayed
as country.
aux...@my-deja.com
kevj...@aol.com (KevJCoyne) wrote:
>
> aux wrote:
> >An analysis of Shania's three albums.
> >
> >First- 80-90% country
> >
> >Second- 50-70% country
> >
> >Third- 10-20% country
> >
> >You see, the further along she goes, the more pop she gets and the
less
> >country she is. Which probably means she really isn't a country
artist
> >at all, a good artist, but not a country one.
>
totally
> unsure of the country content of Shania's albums, and you've had
percentages
> all along! So what exactly was your formula for deducing country
content?
> Number of fiddles divided by # of steel guitar solos?
> -----------------------------------
Nope, but it does sound like a good way. She does have fiddles in that
"Feel Like A Woman Song" but they are synthesized, which automatically
makes it not country. My exact formula basically was this. Listen to a
real female country artist and then compare each of Shania's albums to
it. You will see what I mean.
Balecox
its roots more in the aftermath of Hank Sr than in modern Twang Town. Once
Mitch Miller started cutting Hank's songs on his pop artists and the money
started flowing, other hillbillies looked at their bank accounts and said
"Hmmm...."
Patsi
Jonathan
--
>>Hats are an integral part of country, but not a necessary one.
>
>How do they help you play country music? I've seen alternative rock
>artists wear cowboy hats.
I've even seen it in Chinese Pop and I hate it-- even though it's in my
native language. I was brought up in quite a westernized country. There was
this guy (can't remember his name) who wore this cowboy hat on the cover of
his latest album. It looks completely out of place. It seems that a cowboy
hat is country. Even boots. Whenever I wear mine around that's enough proof
that I'm a country nut. Take the saxaphone, for example. You think of it as
Jazz, right? But you also find them in other places too: rock, classical,
blues and maybe a bit can be heard in country.
>> George Jones is pure country and so is Vince Gill. The problem I have
>> with a few of the current artists that don't wear hats is that their
>> style and mannerisms aren't even country. Look at Bryan White who looks
>> more like he belongs with the Backstreet Boys except for his slight
>> southern accent. I saw some other dude similar to him on CMT one time.
>> Those are the dudes that I say are not country, not the ones like Vince
>> Gill, Conway Twitty, George Jones, Travis Tritt, etc.
Well, I do feel that I they are proud of country music, they should carry on
some tradition-- wear that hat! But there's no law against not wearing
one...
>So based on that, you've made sweeping generalizations about what country
>artists should look like and what they should wear. Yet when I bring up
>examples of others who don't wear hats, you say they're OK. If you're
>going to come up with exact criteria, and compare everyone to them, you
>can't keep coming up with exceptions. And discriminating against a singer
>because he looks young is just plain stupid.
Whatever it is... if it sounds country, I wouldn't have a problem with that.
Cheryl-Ann Tan
*********************************************************************
Cheryl-Ann Tan in Singapore
<cat...@singnet.com.sg> <thunder_...@hotmail.com>
**********************************************************************
KevJCoyne
You said you don't even remember her first CD, and you only seem to know the
singles from her more recent two. Your percentages are based on nothing.
You're wasting our time.
For the record, I don't think Shania's too country myself, as most posters
know. But it's in the best interest of all of us when posts are based on
actual knowledge, not just speculation.
Scott
>
> westsidescott wrote:
> If you think McDonald's is in any way "superior" or "quality", then that
> says a lot about your taste.
> ==================================
> McDonald's may not be to your taste but their biggest selling item does
> have the components to be classified as a hamburger.
> Shania's music may not be to your taste but but at least half her music
> does have the components (or at least as much as Glen Campbell or Kenny
> Rogers material did) to be classified as country.
I didn't say Shania's music was not to my taste--in fact, I actually
bought one of her records. But in no way is she country. Her best
defender here acknowledges she is not country. And FYI neither
Glennie of Kenny are country either. Why does it seem to bother you to
learn Shania is not country? Or do you just think you need to defend her
in some way?
KevJCoyne
It's silly to debate Shania's country credentials. She knows a lot about the
genre's history, and performed traditional country hits like "To Daddy" while
growing up, but none of that changes the fact that "Come On Over" is a pop
album recorded with a few country instruments.
However, being a country song has never been a requirement for country
airplay. Country radio has always given it's superstar artists some freedom,
and I think that's important. Dolly Parton is the perfect example. Yes, she
made some great traditional records, but she also had a talent for making great
pop records. If country radio had decided to not play "Here You Come Again,"
which was a huge hit at pop radio, it would've been separating itself from it's
most visible and popular star at the time.
Also, I think that radio formats should be flexible by region. One of country
radio's weaknesses is that too many stations feel the need to play a record
because it's a national hit. It makes sense to play a little more Shania where
top 40 is popular (NYC for example) and a little more George Strait where
country is more mainstream (Houston, for example.)
aux...@my-deja.com
Well I may not have the CD, but a friend does. It's the one with the
winter scene on it. An no, I cannot remember specific songs from that
album, but it sounds more country than the last two. Wasting time?
Sorry, but I still say the percentages stand. Here is another example,
Garth Brooks. BTW- I actually own these albums
Garth Brooks- 100% country
No Fences- 100% country
Ropin' The Wind- 90% country
The Chase- 75% country
In Pieces- 85% country
Fresh Horses- sorry do not have this album, but I have heard it and
would say it is 65% country
Sevens- 65% country
> For the record, I don't think Shania's too country myself, as most
posters
> know. But it's in the best interest of all of us when posts are
based on
> actual knowledge, not just speculation.
Doesn't listening to a Shania song or album count?
> -----------------------------------
> Kevin J. Coyne
> "What a great honor. I really am surprised. I thought I'd have to
be as old
> as Roy Acuff or as ugly as Willie Nelson to get in the Hall of
Fame." - Dolly
> Parton
>
> www.hillary4senate.org
>
>
aux...@my-deja.com
Well I live right near cattle ranching country and there are four
country stations here and all of them seem to play stuff like Shania,
Faith, and Garth more than they play folks like George Strait or George
Jones. However, your point makes a lot of sense.
KevJCoyne
>> Also, I think that radio formats should be flexible by region. One
>of country
>> radio's weaknesses is that too many stations feel the need to play a
>record
>> because it's a national hit. It makes sense to play a little more
>Shania where
>> top 40 is popular (NYC for example) and a little more George Strait
>where
>> country is more mainstream (Houston, for example.)
>> -----------------------------------
Aux wrote:
>Well I live right near cattle ranching country and there are four
>country stations here and all of them seem to play stuff like Shania,
>Faith, and Garth more than they play folks like George Strait or George
>Jones. However, your point makes a lot of sense.
Thank you. The problem is, country radio doesn't make a lot of sense. Oops, I
think I just got myself into a flame war with Country Boy.
Country Guy
"pop"...But hopefully new artsits such as Brad Paisley and Montgomery Gentry
can keep the true tradition of country alive!!
JimBob93 wrote in message <7l6on6$9...@news.hsonline.net>...
Country Boy
KevJCoyne <kevj...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19990629144321...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>
> Thank you. The problem is, country radio doesn't make a lot of sense.
Oops, I
> think I just got myself into a flame war with Country Boy.
>
Ha! I'm still in my post-Fan Fair glow to flame anyone right now. But
I'll say this: country radio doesn't have to make sense. It just has to
make cents. Dollars and cents. Nothing else matters. Once it doesn't, it
will go away.