WHY ARE THERE NO BLACK COUNTRY SINGERS?
Greg Vaughn
(Shelly Lee) wrote:
>Can someone please tell me why?
Uhhmmm....What about Neal McCoy and Charlie Pride? Yeah, and that other
guy who used to be a heart surgeon (I can't remember his name).
There are a few out there. I would imagine the lack of black country
singers would relate to the fact that country music is rather rural in
nature (though that is changing now) and the black population largely come
from urban backgrounds.
______ | Greg Vaughn G.Va...@ttu.edu
/\__ _\ | Physics Doctoral Candidate
\/_/\ \/ exas | Insulator Research Lab
\ \_\ ech University | Finger: gr...@scm41-2.phys.ttu.edu
\/_/ Lubbock, Texas | Alt. E-mail: ri...@ttacs.ttu.edu
Shelly Lee
Bill Comegna
>
>Can someone please tell me why?
>
Ever heard of Charlie Pride?
kni...@ksu.edu
>From: mis...@atscv1.atsc.allied.com (Bill Comegna)
>Subject: Re: WHY ARE THERE NO BLACK COUNTRY SINGERS?
>Date: 9 Dec 1994 08:11 EST
or Cleve Francis? (sp?)
What I want to know is why all the really good ganster rappers are black? ;)
Geffry King
: Can someone please tell me why?
Nashville bleaches out all the soul during the image-making process.
Simple as that.
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Geff King * Librarian 9a-5p / Bass Player 9p-5a * email ge...@charm.net
A: Four. Q: How many of the Beatles are older than Rep. Newt Gingrich?
Andrew Collington
: Can someone please tell me why?
There are!!!
Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw
another black country singer on CMT yesterday, although I didn't catch his
name.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Collington | and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk | and...@central.susx.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I _DO_ have reason why I do what I do - I just can't remember them
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CARLA00001
>>> Can someone please tell me why? <<<
Gee whiz and I always thought Charlie Pride was black. Silly me.
Carla Regon
Karen Gibson
Bill Comegna
>Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>
>: Can someone please tell me why?
>
>There are!!!
>
>Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw
>another black country singer on CMT yesterday, although I didn't catch his
>name.
Better get yours eyes checked. Aaron Tippen is not black.
Perhaps you are thinking of Aaron Neville who recorded George Jones'
"Grand Tour" about a year ago. Still, Aaron Neville is not "country".
He's really a jazz singer who did one cross over recording.
Timothy J. Perry
>From: and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Andrew Collington)
>Subject: Re: WHY ARE THERE NO BLACK COUNTRY SINGERS?
>Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>: Can someone please tell me why?
>There are!!!
>Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw
>another black country singer on CMT yesterday, although I didn't catch his
>name.
I think you are thinking of Aaron Neville
--tj
Darwin Bruce Evans
>Can someone please tell me why?
Two words: Charlie Pride
--
| Darwin B. Evans umev...@cc.umanitoba.ca|Friends Don't Let Friends |
| ph. (204) 261- 7148 |Take Arts- |
| U of M Computer Engineering | -U of M Dept. of Engineering|
Mark Entwistle
and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk "Andrew Collington" writes:
> There are!!!
> Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one...
Are you sure?
> and I saw another black country singer on CMT yesterday,
Very probably Cleve Francis (who's a singing brain surgeon or something).
And don't forget Charlie Pride.
_____________________________________
Mark Entwistle | You can have it, I don't want it, |
ma...@notlob.demon.co.uk | And when you've got it I'll be gone |
-------------------------------------
Geffry King
: Can someone please tell me why?
It could be argued successfully that Miriam Makeba, King Sunny Ade, and
Jimmy Cliff Marley are 'country' singers. What country would you like to
talk about?
Peggy Bertsch
Cleve Francis and posts sarcastically (at times) as if the original question is
not valid. *Two* recognizable names isn't very many. In essence, I think the
original poster is more or less right...there really isn't a black presence
in country music.
I don't know the reasons, and I don't *think* it has anything to do with
racism or any other *intentional* discrimination. We seem to segregate music
in a lot of ways. The band Living Colour made waves in the hard rock world
a few years back -- a lot of people were surprised that the lead guitarist
(a shredder) was black...white rap artists usually aren't taken really
seriously by fans of rap music...female (hard) rockers are few and far
between -- and you don't see many females show up on "best guitarist" or
"best drummer" lists...but there are always exceptions to the rules.
The business side of music has a lot to do with the marketability of an
artist's image. Anything out of the ordinary has a tendency to get in the way
of the music (people take it less seriously and view the artist as a novelty).
This happens a lot along both racial and gender lines, and can also happen if
an artist gains too many fans from a specific age group (e.g., the "teen idol"
syndrome).
I think it's a bit of a catch-22. Black country artists are still rare, and
record labels have trouble marketing "rare". But until more black artists
get pushed by major record labels, they'll still be rare, and record labels
have trouble marketing...you get the picture :-)
Melinda Shore
>Uhhmmm....What about Neal McCoy and Charlie Pride? Yeah, and that other
>guy who used to be a heart surgeon (I can't remember his name).
Neal McCoy is 1/2 Filipino, 1/2 Irish. I think that the
only name that keeps coming up in this thread is Charlie
Pride pretty much underscores the original question:
relative to the population at large, blacks are *way*
underrepresented. I don't think it's an urban/rural
thing, since there are so many southern rural blacks.
The other night while channel scanning, on the Americana
Channel I caught a bit of a bluegrass performance where the
singer was black, but they didn't say who she was.
--
Melinda Shore - No Mountain Software - sh...@tc.cornell.edu
I don't speak for Cornell.
Software longa, hardware brevis.
IF YOU SEND ME HARASSING EMAIL, I'LL PROBABLY POST IT
Todd Christensen
Ahhhhhhh, I do not think Aaron is black unless I am color blind. ;)
TC
Greg Vaughn
>Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>
>: Can someone please tell me why?
>
>There are!!!
>
>Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one,
^^^^^^^^^^^^
HUH???? I think you are a bit confused. He's not black.
Toby . Hughes
>
>Can someone please tell me why?
>
Don't know. Suggest you check out Charley Pride, Aaron Neville, O.B.
McClinton, Big Al Downing, or Stoney Edwards. Maybe someone connected to
their careers can help you.
TH
Toby . Hughes
>
>: Can someone please tell me why?
>
>There are!!!
>
>Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw
>another black country singer on CMT yesterday, although I didn't catch his
>name.
Aaron Tippen will be surprised to hear this! So will Aaron Neville.
>Andrew Collington | and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk | and...@central.susx.ac.uk
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I _DO_ have reason why I do what I do - I just can't remember them
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Be sure you're right, THEN go ahead." - Davy Crockett
TH
af...@orion.alaska.edu
Does no one remember Otis Williams and the Midnight Cowboys? I
wonder what happened to them....
Lee P. Miller
How about good ole Charley Pride? I know that there is at least currently one
black country singer (but that probably about all) as to why there aren't many?
Probably just the heritage of the music, same as there aren't many white blues
singers, better yet why aren't there any Asian country stars, or how about
Iranian? Indian? Hebrew? It's just not part of their hertiage, and they are
not part of the music's hertiage, it's not racism in my opinion, it's just how
things are, there's always room for other ethnic groups in country music, but
the secret to thier success must be their talent not their novelty ;)
Randy Turney
->You know, everyone comes up with the responses about Charlie Pride and
->Cleve Francis and posts sarcastically (at times) as if the original question is
->not valid. *Two* recognizable names isn't very many. In essence, I think the
->original poster is more or less right...there really isn't a black presence
->in country music.
I agree.
->
->I don't know the reasons, and I don't *think* it has anything to do with
->racism or any other *intentional* discrimination. We seem to segregate music
->in a lot of ways. The band Living Colour made waves in the hard rock world
->a few years back -- a lot of people were surprised that the lead guitarist
->(a shredder) was black...white rap artists usually aren't taken really
->seriously by fans of rap music...female (hard) rockers are few and far
->between -- and you don't see many females show up on "best guitarist" or
->"best drummer" lists...but there are always exceptions to the rules.
Musical segregation, I believe, comes from the cultural segregation
of those that listen to and play the music.
->
->The business side of music has a lot to do with the marketability of an
->artist's image. Anything out of the ordinary has a tendency to get in the way
->of the music (people take it less seriously and view the artist as a novelty).
->This happens a lot along both racial and gender lines, and can also happen if
->an artist gains too many fans from a specific age group (e.g., the "teen idol"
->syndrome).
->
->I think it's a bit of a catch-22. Black country artists are still rare, and
->record labels have trouble marketing "rare". But until more black artists
->get pushed by major record labels, they'll still be rare, and record labels
->have trouble marketing...you get the picture :-)
In the past, country music was mostly a rual white thing. A large number
of the artists come from the very background that the listeners come from.
Playing in rual honky tonks until they make it big. Country music doesn't
seem to be big among young blacks, and until recently, wasn't really big
among young white city slickers :). Culture is something we absorb growing
up. You don't see a lot of white mariachis either.
I'm sure that audience perception is part of it too, especially now that the
corporate marketers run the business. A talented young black singer playing
in a rual Texas honky tonk may grow up the same as his white competitor, but
the bean counting marketer types will judge that he doesn't fit their
formula. ie - white, good looking, hat.
This attitude is sad because it probably deprives black entertainers
of opportunities, and it deprives us, the audience of good music.
R.T.
GIBBS
: In article <3c8uf2$8...@agate.berkeley.edu>, sh...@haas.berkeley.edu
: (Shelly Lee) wrote:
: >Can someone please tell me why?
: Uhhmmm....What about Neal McCoy and Charlie Pride? Yeah, and that other
: guy who used to be a heart surgeon (I can't remember his name).
A. Neil McCoy is a Native American Indian.
B. That heart surgeon is "Cleve Francis"
C. Out of all honesty, I haven't met that many "Black" cowboys either.
Charlie Pride is an awesome singer, but I think his "prime" has passed. Cleve
Francis sounds alot like a c/w Barry Manilow to me (sappy, but not with much
Honky Tonk spirit), and Neil McCoy thanks god everyday for mixers, overdubs,
and the like, cuz in reality, his voice is not that good
MarkO
*** The Renegade Cowboy ***
Wayne Burns
>Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw...
That's odd. Aaron Tippen looks white to me!
Wayne
US...@vm.temple.edu
Paul Erwin
us...@vm.temple.edu
16b...@waikato.ac.nz
who buys c&w in the U.S.?
I'd be suprised if blacks ain't "under-represented" here also
and I'd be even more suprised if any of the majors were makin'
a huge effort to expand their share in this demographic.
So is anyone at all suprised?
- pleb retort
Daniel J. Kuchar
I got the REAL answer:
1) It's not because 'country is rural music and most Black people live in
urban areas'. That's simply not true. In the US South, large numbers of
Black people live in rural areas.
2) It's not because Charlie Pride ruined their chances or anything. He
is a FINE country singer with a more authentic style than *most* of your
YOUNG COUNTRY johnny-come-lately hatboys.
It's because.....
Black people don't listen to or buy much Country music. If the record
industry (and it IS an industry) was selling lots of product to Black
people, you'd see Black country singers being scouted, recruited, and
signed to fill the need.
But, for the time being, Country music enjoys a largely caucasian
listenership.
BTW...
Don't flame me or send me email on this. I KNOW there are exceptions. My
opinion is based on economic reality, not any racial / ethnic prejudice.
Dan
Steve Blitenthal
>In article <3c8uf2$8...@agate.berkeley.edu>, sh...@haas.berkeley.edu
>(Shelly Lee) wrote:
>>Can someone please tell me why?
>Uhhmmm....What about Neal McCoy and Charlie Pride? Yeah, and that other
>guy who used to be a heart surgeon (I can't remember his name).
>There are a few out there. I would imagine the lack of black country
>singers would relate to the fact that country music is rather rural in
>nature (though that is changing now) and the black population largely come
>from urban backgrounds.
> ______ | Greg Vaughn G.Va...@ttu.edu
>/\__ _\ | Physics Doctoral Candidate
>\/_/\ \/ exas | Insulator Research Lab
> \ \_\ ech University | Finger: gr...@scm41-2.phys.ttu.edu
> \/_/ Lubbock, Texas | Alt. E-mail: ri...@ttacs.ttu.edu
Who said there are no black country singers how about Charlie Pride,and
Cleve Davis for a start.
Whirlin Steve
Davis,
--
========================================================================
Whirlin Disc Records -- Home of the Oldies -- Oldies Catalog Available.
230 Main Street Farmingdale, N.Y. 11735 (1-516)694-1145
Where Vinyl is not Final.
Alan Murray, CSC Operations, Uni of Canty
> Don't know. Suggest you check out Charley Pride, Aaron Neville, O.B.
> McClinton, Big Al Downing, or Stoney Edwards. Maybe someone connected to
> their careers can help you.
Also check out Barrence Whitfield who has done a couple of collaboration albums
with Tom Russell " Hillbilly Voodoo" and "Cowboy Mambo". Also depends on your
point of view - on my "country" show I play rural blues (not the Chicago
variety) - I mean does a number stop/start to be a country number because
Mississippi John Hurt or Doc Watson is playing it? I also play zydeco and
people like Arthur Alexander. Black musicians may not feature very much in the
Nashville scene but that surely doesn't represent ALL of country music.
Even so it's obvious that there are fewer black musicians playing country music
than most people would deem desireable. From the outside looking in that
appears to me to be a reflection on how the music has evolved. What both blacks
and whites were playing seems to have split into blues and country with
mostly blacks involved in the refinement of blues music and whites in that of
country.
It's odd to look at what appeals to various people. For example there seems to
be few white soul singers in the USA while they abound in the UK and soul
music is especially popular in Ireland.
Alan
Larry Quick
Why don't we get the NAACP to start a record company to make things
*equal*.
--
lqu...@zilker.net * The views expressed are those of my
Austin, Tx * dog. He knows.
The Live Music Capital of the World *
Greg Vaughn
>C. Out of all honesty, I haven't met that many "Black" cowboys either.
Where have you been? I've seen/met quite a few black cowboys. They were
actually not too uncommon back in the "open frontier" hey days of
ranching. And I've seen several PRCA black cowboys and clowns.
Greg Vaughn
>A. Neil McCoy is a Native American Indian.
Oh, I missed this point in my previous followup. When I first saw him I
wasn't sure of his ethnicity. My wife though he was American Indian and I
though that seemed reasonable. Then I saw a bit about him on TNN's Country
News show and his mother was there. She was black. His father wasn't on
that show, so he could very well be of AI ancestry.
Jim Durkin
Related to this is why are there no dancers on TNN who are not white?
Just looking at the variety of people on there I thought they had every
type until a friend pointed there were no blacks. I don't think I have
ever seen any Hispanics either and I know a lot of them love country
music, clothes, etc.
Best Wishes
Kelly Shuldberg
as honky-tonk as you can get, and The Pointer Sisters did "Fairy Tale" a
few years back. 'Taint much, but 'taint bad, neither!
h. kelly shuldberg
hke...@swcp.com
Albuquerque, NM
Michelle Bolivar
in country bars? All of them that I've been
too have a few but that's it...I don't know
why but country music doesn't seem to be as
popular among black people as do other types
of music.
Charley Pride is one of the greatest country
singers ever though...
Michelle
garry b.
jdu...@netcom.com (Jim Durkin) writes:
> GIBBS (Gi...@voyager.cris.com) wrote:
> : Greg Vaughn (G.Va...@ttu.edu) wrote:
> : : In article <3c8uf2$8...@agate.berkeley.edu>, sh...@haas.berkeley.edu
> : : (Shelly Lee) wrote:
>
> : : >Can someone please tell me why?
>
> : : Uhhmmm....What about Neal McCoy and Charlie Pride? Yeah, and that other
> : : guy who used to be a heart surgeon (I can't remember his name).
>
> : A. Neil McCoy is a Native American Indian.
> : B. That heart surgeon is "Cleve Francis"
> : C. Out of all honesty, I haven't met that many "Black" cowboys either.
>
> : Charlie Pride is an awesome singer, but I think his "prime" has passed. Cleve
> : Francis sounds alot like a c/w Barry Manilow to me (sappy, but not with much
> : Honky Tonk spirit), and Neil McCoy thanks god everyday for mixers, overdubs,
> : and the like, cuz in reality, his voice is not that good
Neal McCoy is of Filipino descent, and I have heard him sing at sound
checks (while I was standing a few feet away in the wings) a couple of
times, and his voice IS that good without any fancy electronics in the
way. PLUS he's a hell of an entertainer (Not to mention a modest,
sincere, and very funny person). Your milage may vary.
garry
___________________________________________________________________
I like guitars, pickup trucks, and hillbilly music. Oh, yeah, and my
Marshall amp. "GONE" (CD, 48 min.) by No Way Home available
by mail order now. Email ga...@reed.edu for info.
___________________________________________________________________
Andrew Collington
: In article <3ca3s4$n...@infa.central.susx.ac.uk>, and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk
: (Andrew Collington) wrote:
: >Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: Can someone please tell me why?
: >
: >There are!!!
: >
: >Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one,
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^
: HUH???? I think you are a bit confused. He's not black.
Aw Bugger!! Could you imagine what a prat I felt when I got home and realised
that I should have put Neville and not Tippen???
I could give you reasons why I put Tippin and not Neville, but would you lot
belive me? I think not!!
I feel like the Duane Dibley of country music!!!
So too all those that had a good laugh, I'm glad I brought a bit of joy to
your day, and just remember... we all make mistakes! Ok, not most of them are
so public and go out to several million people! But if you're going to screw
up, do it big time!!!
I should have put NEVILLE!!!
Andy
8-P
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Collington | and...@cogs.susx.ac.uk | and...@central.susx.ac.uk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I _DO_ have reason why I do what I do - I just can't remember them
And on occasions like this - I don't want to!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Comegna
>A couple of crossovers come to mind. Ray Price's "Born to Lose" is about
>as honky-tonk as you can get, and The Pointer Sisters did "Fairy Tale" a
>few years back. 'Taint much, but 'taint bad, neither!
>
Hap Freiberg
>
>I got the REAL answer:
>
>
>Black people don't listen to or buy much Country music.
>
>listenership.
>
I would say that the lack of black country singers begins with the origins
of country music, ie the Scots-Irish ballads, etc. that the early white
settlers of the Applachians and piney red-clay areas brought with them
from the Old World.
One needs also to consider the isolation, culturally, of blacks and whites
in the old south. To be sure some had heard music from the other group, but
it wasn't until the 1930s that radio and phonograph playing became even
slightly common. As an aside, it was the joining of the black "common"
music (blues, hollers, gospels) with the white "common" music (country,
western swing, spirituals) that made what Elvis and Sam Phillips did so
extraordinary.
And, of course, one needs to consider the socio-economic concepts and con-
flicts that continue today. The only genre that I know of where "country"
music is performed and danced to by blacks is Zydeco.
In essence there is no black tradition of "country" (as in c&w) music, hence,
there is no market. "Country" is the music of red-necks, peckerwoods, good ol'
boys, etc., groups not normally embraced or emulated by blacks.
IMHO and my $0.02... :-)
Hap
--
*************************
<<<<< OMNIA EXTARES >>>>>
*************************
ca...@cas.org
Ray Charles has recorded some great country music.
His version of "You Don't Know Me" is the best I've
heard.
Kelly Shuldberg
Good question. I must have turned on my brain before I plugged it in. I
meant Ray Charles.
h. kelly "boy is my face red" shuldberg
hke...@swcp.com
Albuquerque, NM
John V. Smith
|> > Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
|> >
|> > : Can someone please tell me why?
|> >
Hey, What about LaToya Jackson???????????????????;)
--- John V. Smith
Jon Weisberger
It certainly is related. There's some evidence to suggest that blacks
at least used to listen to country music - black musicians, for
instance, mentioning country artists as favorites or as influences - but
I don't see where it's too tough to understand why what you might call
face-to-face participation in the country music scene, whether as
concert-going fan, musician, dancer, etc. by blacks is rare. You could
start with those rebel flags that show up in and around the scene; you
can argue as to what those to whom the flags, patches, T-shirts, etc.
belong really intend by such displays, but it's harder to argue that
they're *perceived* as anything other than, um, off-putting by blacks.
Jon Weisberger (jo...@ix.netcom.com)
Tony Payne
dancehall and they are made welcome and have a good time. They are
certainly not made to feel like outsiders.
I have also met other black people who like country, and also some
hispanics too.
I think it's nice for people to at least be more open in their
choice of listening, after all, enough white people listen to
black music, why shouldn't they like country.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Tony Payne % Computers are unreliable, but %
% Data Processing Consultant % humans are even more unreliable. %
% South Bend (Indiana) % Any system which depends on human %
% (to...@peapod.win.net) % reliability is therefore unreliable. %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Tony Payne
In article <3c8uf2$8...@agate.berkeley.edu>, Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) writes:
>
>Can someone please tell me why?
>
>
I thought he was as black as they come.
STEPHEN J. TANKO
the recent postings about Emmylou Harris (not Emmilu)... here I go again.
CHARLEY PRIDE is spelled C-H-A-R-L-E-Y!!!!!!!
CHARLIE RICH is spelled C-H-A-R-L-I-E!!!!!!!!
CHARLY McClain is spelled C-H-A-R-L-Y!!!!!!!!
Thank you for letting this off my chest!
SJT
Jeff Levin
: >A. Neil McCoy is a Native American Indian.
No. He is half Irish-American (father), half Filipino (mother).
--
******************************************************************************
Jeff Levin "Great spirits have always found violent
"jle...@infi.net" opposition from mediocrities." -Einstein
******************************************************************************
Djinn Ruffner
Lisa Clayton
How 'bout Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown who did a lot of country and blues
crossover songs back in the '70's?
But the answer has a *lot* to do with segregation, and tagging any
black musician as a "race" musician back in the 30's and 40's.
Country and blues have been mixing around for a long time before
rock, though; there isn't much difference in the way Hank Williams
sang the blues and Muddy Waters sang the blues. It's just that
Hank was classified as "hillbilly" music and Waters was classified
as "race" music. 'Twasn't until rock & roll hit that the color barrier
went down; both whites and blacks sang "rock & roll".
These days, it seems like
the barriers aren't so tight but there's still an implied color barrier.
I mean, why can't folks like Tish Hinojosa, Rosie Flores or the
Texas Tornadoes get much airplay? Charlie Pride is the only
person in anyone's list who got much air time (Aaron Neville aside).
Stoney Edwards never sold too many records (and he had a great honky-
tonk sound), Gatemouth never got any country radio play, and Cleve
Francis was never really accepted (and he sounds kind of like a male
KT Oslin to me). I don't think it's on purpose or malicious, but
the barriers still do exist.
Andrew Collington
: >Shelly Lee (sh...@haas.berkeley.edu) wrote:
: >: Can someone please tell me why?
: >There are!!!
: >Aaron Tippin (or Tippen, sorry but I can't remember), is one, and I saw...
: That's odd. Aaron Tippen looks white to me!
: Wayne
You'd guys must have missed me explaining what a dumb ass I was and what a
huge mistake I made... But I'll forgive you, after all , it's nearly
Christmas!!
U60...@uicvm.uic.edu
that there is a bigger market for R&B for them...ya think?
Or...perhaps it's all some big conspiracy to keep blacks out of country
music!!!! muhahahahahahaha
Come on...what a stupid question!!!!!!
AllanS6687
<U60...@uicvm.uic.edu> wrote:
Hoiw about Charley Pride, Neal McCoy (I think), Aaron Nevelle (on
occasion) and there is one more who's name escapes me. I realize that
there are not a whole lot of them, but I don't think it has anything to
due deliberate discrimination.
SidPhan
Keith Perrin
Robert E. Thornton
: Isn't Lee Greenwood black? Unless I'm thinking of the wrong guy.
If he is he's doing a real good job of passing.
Linda B. Gordon
Cleve Francis and Charley Pride are the only ones, so far, I can think of.
But, since country music is beginning to embrace more and more of the
entire country, I hope we'll be hearing from singers and songwriters
representing the whole spectrum of our melting pot. IMHO
Untold
that there are few white's in Rhythm & Blues. The music does not
naturally attract people of color. There is a black artist on Liberty
Records, Cleve Francis, who has been at it for a couple of years and
unfortunately has had only marginal success. Music is an equal
opportunity field, but the criteria is not the color of someone's
skin....only unique talent that stands out from the norm.
Hallfame3
The music actually does attrac people of color, the industry has been slow
to recognize the market. A recent article (by Cleve Francis) in Music Row
points out that 24% of black Americans report that they listen to country
music. Why? for te same reasons that white listeners do--they grw up with
it (many are from the south); the messages say something to them; and
--have you seen MTV lately?-- many black listeners are out of their teens
and rock, pop, and rap offer them little of substance. Expect a growth in
the industry marketing to black listeners.
Jerry Penny
There is another black country music singer with several songs on the charts
today. His name is Aaron Neville. One of his best songs is a remake of an
older country song by George Jones called The Grand Tour. He sings in a
high tone of voice and has a lot of vibratto in his songs. Check him out.
He is very good.
Rich Brotherton
thirty years. And rhythm & blues has been common ground for black and
white musicians for just as long. Check out Booker T. & the MG's or
anything from Muscle Shoals.
RB
Linda B. Gordon
Aaron Neville and the Neville Brothers have been around on the pop charts and
the rhythm and blues charts for years. They've been more closely associated
with the zydeco music of New Orleans than country. I guess they're our
country cousins.
tb...@inforamp.net
You've Got Me Now is one of the finest pieces of work I
purchased this year. His ealier releases lacked a certain
'confidence' he now has. Have a listen to the title track and
"Here We Are". Pure heaven.
A loss to the medical profession is our gain!
tb...@inforamp.net
Gray country recording. It was the best country music I had
ever heard! Dobie is of "Drift Away Fame". There is a song on
that tape called "From Where I Stand". If I ever get married
(no luck so far..sigh), that would be the song I would dedicate
to my husband.
BAMAJ
Secondly Cleave Francis is a tremendous artist. I wish him all the best
in his new career. His previous career was a heart doctor. Secondly,
Charlie Pride is one of my favorite country artists.
JLizKenn
Virginia where he's from, and in the 1970s he was a coffeehouse folkie
(one of the few black ones in that venue, too). Real nice way about him,
but nothing in his style, phrasing or choice of songs would have led you
to predict he would go the country route.
Why are there so few black sountry singers? Because country music is such
a turnoff for so many black people, who associate it with rednecks and
white sheets. Maybe when they do tune in they're creeped out to hear Hank
Williams, Jr. sing about how great it would be if the South had won the
the Civil War.
Ted Samsel
: Ray Charles has been singing country music (as well as R&B) for more than
: thirty years. And rhythm & blues has been common ground for black and
: white musicians for just as long. Check out Booker T. & the MG's or
: anything from Muscle Shoals.
Back around '85/'86 Bobby Blue Bland did an album of Cnw covers that
was fine, fine music.
"I pity the fool" Deadrick Malone...
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net.com/bh...@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu...
"driving a Hudson Hornet on the information superhighway"
Robert Larson
: Rich Brotherton (bro...@eden.com) wrote:
: : Ray Charles has been singing country music (as well as R&B) for more than
: : thirty years. And rhythm & blues has been common ground for black and
: : white musicians for just as long. Check out Booker T. & the MG's or
: : anything from Muscle Shoals.
Charley Pride
--
Robert Larson ******************** Robert Larson
Seattle Pacific University Student Union Board
3307 3rd Avenue West Seattle, WA 98119-1997
(206) 281-2496 ************* fax (206) 286-7320
JohnT100
record store. :)
JLizKenn
country singer, and many, many people have seen Cleve Francis' albums in
the country bin, whether they've actually heard him sing (I don't think
his singles make it into heavy rotation) or not. But isn't the title of
this thread a hyperbole asking, 'How come only these two, out of all the
millions of black people who've heard the music?' It's like when you talk
about a club and say, "No one ever goes there any more," you tend to mean
that the club is in decline, not literally that there is nobody at all
inside.
Two black faces out of the hundreds of white ones in the cd store's
country bin isn't really very many, is it? Yes, I know there are many
black artists who may have been influenced by country, and many country
artists who have been influenced by black peoples' music, but that too
begs the question: what is it about the country environment in general
that might seem to make it hostile to talented black people ( with, well,
two exceptions) who might enjoy feeling included?
JohnT100
not there because they're not accepted as well in the musics predominante
race. :-(
I think it's a shame, I think that there are black people that have same
feelings/experiences as whites and vice versa. They could do a fine job
but unfortunitely they're not as accepted.
This isn't intended to be bad, its true I flame HNC, but...Maybe with the
country execs trying pop there will be more black country artists out
there. I hope that some are discovered out there that have a true heart
to country! Their Influence? Traditional? Pop? Blues? Only time will
tell.......
Joshua Simer
and in addition to its appalachian roots, country has strong roots in
black music. In a jazz history class last year, a blues singer came to
perform (he was black, incidentally), and while singing, he explained
some of his music. At one point he sang a couple of country songs,
saying that in his opinion country music and the blues are really the
same thing. It's interesting to consider. When you listen, a lot of
country songs DO sound "bluesy," and a lot of artists from each style
have delved into the other.
A good example of the convergence (or rather, reuniting) of
country and blues is Lynyrd Skynyrd. They have been considered "southern
rock," "blues-tinged rock," "blues-rock," and of course the recent
tribute album was done by country singers.
--
****************************Joshua M. Simer*************************
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism"
- T. Roosevelt
********************************************************************
-Disclaimer: Did I SAY I was speaking for anyone or anything besides
myself? No? Well, then, I probably wasn't.
JohnT100
became the white mans blues....
Cyronwode
Back in the 1960s, an older black blues musician named Hambone Willie
Newbern, who had recorded in the 1920s-30s and then left the music biz,
was given a career revival, due to renewed interest in the blues. During
the course of this, he was interviewed and was asked who had the biggest
influence on HIS singing. He answered with a list of Delta blues singers'
names -- Charlie Patton, Robert Johnson -- and a couple of Memphis jug
band groups, and then he said, "But the man i think was the best singer of
all was this railroad brakeman...he was a white man, named Jimmie
Rodgers."
The interviewer couldn't believe what Newbern was saying. "You mean Jimmie
Rodgers, the COUNTRY singer? You mean you listened to his records, right?"
"Yeah, that's the man. Only I knew him when he worked on the railroads,
before he got sick and all. I didn't have no records."
The interviewer was almost rude in his disbelief. "You KNEW Jimmie
Rodgers? Jimmie Rodgers, the COUNTRY singer?"
"Yeah, man, him'n'me used to drink sterno together when we couldn't get no
whiskey. He taught me how to yodel."
"He taught you to YODEL?"
Newbern -- breaking into song -- "All around the water tank, just waiting
for a train, a thousand miles away from home, standing in the rain, I
walked up to a brakeman, just to give him a line of talk, he said if
you've got money boy, I'll see that you don't walk..."
And then he yodeled.
When he finished the song, the interviewer asked him again, "You learned
this song from Jimmie Rodgers, right? You're telling me you actually drank
whiskey with Jimmie Roidgers?"
Newbern said, "Yeah, Jimmie Rodgers...we drank whiskey, sterno...he didn't
mind no color bar."
Which is more than one could have said of the interviewer.
catherine yronwode
cyro...@aol.com
David B. Feland
>country singer, and many, many people have seen Cleve Francis' albums in
>the country bin, whether they've actually heard him sing (I don't think
Charley Pride tells a story on himself, on the album "Live At Cobo Hall"
- he quotes two old ladies, nudging each other saying 'did you know
he's...? oh, no, no...'. The same old ladies are later in the front
row, saying "It's true! It's true!".
Black country artists are a rarity, true. It's changing, but slowly.
There's also very few black hockey players or figure skaters... but the
numbers are increasing, slowly. Personally, I don't listen to their
race, I listen to their voice.
||||| ./\. ||||| David B. Feland
||||| _|\||||/|_ ||||| Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
||||| \||||||||/ ||||| dec...@tibalt.supernet.ab.ca
||||| >||||||< ||||| <finger for more info!>
||||| || ||||| America borders on the magnificent... Canada.
JLizKenn
cd store there's one, Charley Pride. Are we talking about GEOLOGICAL time?
Frannkly, if you're not listening to Charley, you're not listening to a
black country singer's race OR his voice, because in heavy rotation
on country radio, he's all there is.
Aaron Climax
Well, there's a band called Confederate Railroad.
Then there's the old hit song from Hank Williams, Jr, with a
title like "If the South Woulda Won the War Things Would Be Just
Swell" or whatever the heck it was called.
These two examples demonstrate a degree of insensitivity within
the industry.
--
-Aaron Climax
Huntington Beach, CA
Turbonet
Downing. His big hit in the 70s was "I'm in trouble, Mr. Jones."
I guess the bigger question is "why don't blacks listen to country music?"
We
can name three black singers, but I have only known one black person that
actually listened to country music. (Maybe he was just pulling my leg.)
I hope country fans just care about the music and not the color of one's
skin. Of course one of my favorite country vocalists was a Canadian
lesbian (k.d. lang), and she wasn't embraced. Who knows?
arie o dezwart
: There's one more (in addition to Charlie Pride and Cleve Frances), Big Al
This just may be a guess (I'm white), but I don't think it appeals to
them...many blacks listen to 'Ghetto Music' and rap, that's the way they
see the world, and country is the way we see the world....
ADZ
Jon Weisberger
writes:
>
>Turbonet (turb...@aol.com) wrote:
>
>:...
>: I guess the bigger question is "why don't blacks listen to country
>:music?"
>: We can name three black singers, but I have only known one black
>:person that actually listened to country music. (Maybe he was just
>:pulling my leg.)
>:...
>
>This just may be a guess (I'm white), but I don't think it appeals to
>them...
There is some evidence, including a Census Bureau report on musical
listening preferences, which suggests that there are numbers of Blacks
who like country music and listen to it - certainly a lot more than
appear (either in absolute numbers or proportionately) at country music
shows, clubs, etc.
--
Jon Weisberger, Cincinnati (jo...@tso.uc.edu or
jo...@ix.netcom.com)
David B. Feland
Huh?
You'd have to do some fast talking to convince me the name 'Confederate
Railroad' was racist. Which part - 'Confederate' as in the southern
side of the Civil War, or 'Railroad' as in the Underground Railroad that
got many blacks to the north and freedom?
As for Bocephus... next you'll be telling me 'Attitude Adjustment'
promotes violence.
Please, give me a small break. I listen to country music partly because
I don't have to put up with the 'politically correct' manure that's
become so pervasive everywhere else on the planet. Country music has
always been about drinking, cheating, fighting, driving fast, and living
hard. If you're looking for 'sensitivity', might I suggest the fine
music of Kenny G.
JLizKenn
Nobody's saying that country music should be liberal, but this thread
HAS been exploring what things featured in country music might by their
nature offend potential black fans and potential black performers, and
Hank's song is not a bad thing to point to in that direction.
I think a lot of good ideas get tarred with the brush "political
correctness" that are really only good manners, like being
aware of ALL your listeners' feelings and not going out of your
way to throw out vibes that would strike them as hostile. If
I were black, and not just Yankee, I'd think of red necks and
white sheets when I listened to mainstream country stations
playing a song whose refrain was, "If the South woulda won
we'd a had it made." If I were black, that would creep me out
big-time, not that someone thought that, but that the
sentiment had such big-money backing and such massive
access to mainstream audiences, and that they were buying
it.
Trevor R Loy - MD6
>In <3h1rjv$d...@schema.fiu.edu> adez...@solix.fiu.edu (arie o dezwart)
>writes:
>>Turbonet (turb...@aol.com) wrote:
>>: I guess the bigger question is "why don't blacks listen to country
>>:music?"
>>: We can name three black singers, but I have only known one black
>>:person that actually listened to country music. (Maybe he was just
>>:pulling my leg.)
>>
>listening preferences, which suggests that there are numbers of Blacks
>who like country music and listen to it - certainly a lot more than
>appear (either in absolute numbers or proportionately) at country music
>shows, clubs, etc.
A number of college friends of mine who were black listened to country,
though only a portion of the time. The reasons were the same as for
many of the suburban whites who listen -- it reminds them, either through
personal or shared cultural experience, of simple values and honest life
situations.
In particular, 5 of the 7 black country fans I ran with in school were
from the South (we went to school in California) so it was a form of
personal nostalgia for them. As an added bonus, they didn't have to
deal with the more racial overtones that the perception of country music
fans in the South often involves.
I think what I'm trying to say (admittedly awkwardly) was that it was
easier for them to be country fans far away from home, where they could
selectively choose only the "good" memories as a part of their nostalgia.
I would also argue that the crossover of suburban whites to country could
be repeated among a minority demographic by following the same formula
as worked for Garth (and also worked for M.C. Hammer with rap). Remove the
overt references to the underlying cultural origins of the music that make
many people uneasy (e.g. Confederate flags for country, gang apparel for rap).
Make the linguistic style of the singer more bland (less twang for country,
less "ghetto" speech for rap). Incorporate a lot of top-40 pop influences
from the preceeding few years. Market the music in combo with a certain
way of dressing & dancing. Etc. etc. and presto, you've got a watered down
musical success!
As evidence, witness the tremendous growth of traditional Mexican music
among urban, middle-class Latino-Americans, esp. in California. A success
story very parallel to American country music among urban, middle-class whites.
--
Trevor R. Loy * Eventually,
MD6, Intel Corporation * all things merge into one,
Folsom, California 95630 * and a river runs through it.
tl...@pcocd2.intel.com * -Norman MacLean
Trevor R Loy - MD6
>white sheets when I listened to mainstream country stations
>playing a song whose refrain was, "If the South woulda won
>we'd a had it made." If I were black, that would creep me out
You shouldn't have to be black for that to creep you out.
JohnT100
I'm from Ohio, but I can say that being a Confederate does not stand for
slavery (Which is what I'm assuming you mean by the name of the thread).
They didn't agree with many things the Union believed in and there were a
heck-of-a lot more things other than slavery. Why is it that the bad
guys are always The Confederacy and Native Americans? All the *older*
movies depict the Native Americans as savages (when actually it was the
whiteman) and the South as fighting for the right to have slaves (which as
I said, was of little concern). In no way do I agree with slavery, but I
think that everyone looks at a Confederate Flag and thinks of slavery and
not the REST of the beliefs behind it. I think that there would be a
great pride for the Union Flag if the south woulda won and we would had
become one country with the Confederate Flag. There is a lot of ifs in
here but I hope you get what I mean.
I think "If The South Woulda Won" is a funny song, it mentions nothing
about slavery, it puts things in a modern time with the government in the
south. I don't think things would work quite like Hank said though, a
politician is a politician, north or south. <G>
Later
JohnT100
lot of white people that will listen to anything, but IMHO I think that
black people what their own identity (music, culture, etc.), not that of
white people. Just a thought??
Later....
Kevin Smith
76363...@CompuServe.COM says...
What about Charlie Pride??????? Did you all forget about him?
--
<Now back to your regularly scheduled program>
Kevin Smith
Isn't Charlie Pride BLACK ????? or am I colored blind?
Kevin
Joshua Simer
Listen to Hank, Sr, and then try to tell me that Country and
Blues are fundamentally different. The only difference is in the popular
perception of the audience. The stereotypical country fan is a
redneck/hick who lives in a shack in southern Mississippi or Alabama.
Blues, meanwhile, has become more obscure, but its other descendant, R&B,
is stereotypically listened to by urban blacks. Neither stereotype is
very accurate. I think, however, that these perceptions have made it
difficult for people to even *think* of crossing over. It has been done,
though. Ray Charles is the best example, and the recent "country, Rhythm
& Blues" album is another.
Hopefully now that country has sort of "broken out" to once again
be a big part of mainstream popular culture, we will see more such
crossing-over.
--
****************************Joshua M. Simer*************************
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism"
- T. Roosevelt
***************************Live Free or Die*************************
-Disclaimer: Did I *SAY* I was speaking for anyone or anything besides
BEAUVALLET
the Opry in its earliest days. That makes awhopping total of 4 black
artists in the entire history of CnW.
For any of you really interested in following up on this topic, may I
suggest you pick up the 2/4/95 issue of "Billboard" and read the article
by Cleve Francis?
He points out a study that does indeed show a far greater percentage of
African-Americans listening to CnW than the white execs in Nashville have
either perceived or admitted to, depending on whether or not you think the
exclusion of African-Americans in CnW is due to lack of interest from
A-A's or conscious/unconscious racism from white managements. Mr. Francis
makes some excellent points. And though he doesn't say it, it's probably
true that if he
were not a well-respected cardiologist in D.C., his talent would not have
been enough to gain him entry into the hallowed halls of 14th Avenue.
Naomi Johnson
JLizKenn
since about 1977. He wasn't really singing country then,
but he was really singing and playing well, kind of a
folk/pop/soft-rock mixture with acoustic guitar. He
was a cardiology resident, probably at Georgetown,and he was
charming and non-threatening to white people. This would
help him out later, I guess, in trying for a country following
once it seemed things had loosened up enough, and since
his background as a heart doctor made doing publicity
kind of fun, with all his songs about hearts.
I've heard it said that his race had made it difficult for him to
form a successful practice in cardiology, for whatever
reasons. Not enough of his fans had heart problems, I guess.
I think it's odd that there aren't more black country performers.
I'm a songwriter who'd be a gone-country wannabe if
I ever made a stab at country myself, because my background
is not Southern, or rural, or Protestant. All the authentic
country performers I know are all three, and so are quite a
few of the black people I know. And yes, some of them
do like to listen to the music, but none of them feel
welcome at the clubs.
I'm thinking that the barriers AND the tie-ins between country
music and blues are something like the barriers and tie-ins
between cajun music and zyedeco. Many people love
both, and some people play both, but pretty much you're
in one camp or the other. Maybe things'll loosen up some
more, but it's a rare bird like Cleve who'd even take a stab
at it these days.
John Thompson
: Add Deford Bailey to your list of black CnW artists -- He was a member of
: Naomi Johnson
I haven't read this article, but I really can't see how the exec's would
really be racist. If you look at what has happened the last few years,
obviously it looks like a lot of them have come from a pop background
(IMHO) and went with that sound. The current sound of "country" came from
somewhere and the type of artists that are out there have been singing for
a long time therefore, I draw the conclusion that it had to come from the
top. With the current sound, I can't see why there aren't more and I'm
sure the number will increase in coming years (if the sound stays). I
have heard a few of Cleve's songs (on CMT) and liked the first one, but
the second one was (Again IMHO) a very pop song even more than most of the
songs out there.
I also saw another post regarding how they aren't accepted in the clubs.
I'v been going into country bars since I could go into a bar (When there was
only one real dance country bar in Central OH...now 5) and never saw a
lot of problems. The few times were because they were there to disrupt, and
were asked to leave, much like any other person was. I've never had a problem
with it and actually talk to black people if I see them more quickly, just
so they know that there's at least one person that doesn't care. :^)
Later...
--
John Thompson
Columbus, OH
Scott Sancetta
how about charlie pride?
Trevor R Loy - MD6
radio advertising, published in _The Wall Street Journal_, marketing section,
2/13/95 (reprinted without permission):
*Radio Listeners*
-----------------
Share of black listeners for each category by age group, based on spring
1994 ratings.
Category Age Group
12-24 25-54
------------------------------------------
Urban 71.0 % 53.4 %
Top 40 17.3 7.2
Adult contemporary 3.4 8.3
Religious 1.9 8.0
News/talk 1.6 8.9
Adult alternative 1.1 5.9
Oldies 1.0 3.8
Album rock 0.5 0.7
Country 0.5 1.1
Modern rock 0.4 0.2
Classic rock 0.4 0.6
Other 0.8 1.8
Source: Black Ratings - Arbitron Co.
This seems to dispel the 30% number that somebody had floated out a few
weeks ago. Still, I find a couple of things interesting about this:
* One of my theories was that country listenership would be higher among
Blacks than their "presence" would indicate, due to the ease and anonymity
of tuning in a radio vs. the more difficult choice of attending a country
bar, concert, dance club, etc. -- where an African-American might
understandably feel a bit "uncomfortable" (hey, so do most white city folks
when they first go to a place like that, even if its a disco country club in
the heart of an urban area).
However, I note that the ratings for modern rock are even lower than country.
Revealing another sterotype of mine, I've always pictured the typical modern
rock audience as a young, liberal college-student crowd -- where I would
expect an African-American to feel less uncomfortable, and hence I would
expect ratings and attendance to be higher.
So much for that theory.
* While the numbers are low, the ratings for the 25-54 age group are double
that for the younger set -- a similar comparison I would expect to find
among other ethnic groups.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
Jon Weisberger
MD6) writes:
>Source: Black Ratings - Arbitron Co.
>
>
>This seems to dispel the 30% number that somebody had floated out a few
>weeks ago...
Not necessarily. There's not enough information in that chart or about
how it was derived to really tell. For one thing, the percentages in
each age category add up to 100%, meaning that only one kind of station
or preference is counted for each listener.
Terry Bartlett
Michael l Hudgens <les...@primenet.com> wrote:
[Arbitron numbers deleted to save space]
> This Post Says a lot But i fail to understand why anyone
>would even Respond to the question as to why there are no black country
>Singers. Country is Merely Music and if Someone<ANYONE> Sings a song and it
>is Music to SOMEONE<ANYONE'S> it will be Bought and Sold. The Fault If Any
>lays Solely on the Person not Picking up a Guitar an d Picking it. To say they
>Feel Intimidated Is Pure Bullsxxx. I guesse all the Country Stars we have Now
>were Not intimidated when they Started Out.
Well, you've sort of hit upon why the question is valid if you think
about it. If country music is just music as you say you would expect
it to have broad appeal. Several people have already pointed out the
musical similarities between country and blues. It's pretty clear
that, at least historically, the blues were considered a predominately
black musical form. But it attracted a lot of white listeners and
performers.
Why isn't the converse true for country music?
And as for your comments about intimidation, I think I would prefer
to characterize it as temerity on the part of music industry. In my
opinion modern country is much more about marketing and image than it
is about the music. I don't think anyone denies the fact that there
are a lot of talented black musicians. If, as you say, it's not the
music that's keeping them from performing country, what is it?
> Michael LeShane Hudgens
--
Terry Bartlett
bart...@spdcc.com
spdcc is in Cambridge, but I'm in Colorado Springs, CO.
These are my opinions. I don't speak for anyone at SPDCC.
Thomas W. Cowdery Jr.
:The bottom line is, Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, etc who gives a shit, if it
:rolls and it rocks it'll do just fine.
Well said. There was a local band with a black lead singer about ten years
back. They were pretty good and had a decent following at the time. But when
the interest in Country faded in the mid-80's they switched to pop and oldies.
I see them every so often and the band leader (the black guy) and I talk. He
usually will play a country tune or two for me. But the truth is, very few
blacks listen to country. He is the exception to the rule. So I wouldn't
expect too many black artists.
Ted Samsel
: Well there is Kinky Friedman.
Having swilled a beer or three with his nibs and his roadies, I can assure
you that Mr. Friedman is not *black*. Jewish, yes, but hardly *black*.
Unless you are referring (tangentially) to his style of humour.
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net.com/bh...@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu...
"driving a Hudson Hornet on the information superhighway"
wmo...@unix.cc.emory.edu
>
Charley Pride Charley Pride Charley Pride!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas R. Elkin II
song that had something to do with "my heart" or "your heart" or
somebody's heart, but he is also a Cardiologist or Radiologist... Can't
remember his name for the life of me.
Tom
Justin Clark
"Walkin". It was a snoozer.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
. Justin Clark
| ____|__) ~ ____ Mississippi State University
| | | ( | | | | cl...@CS.MsState.Edu
(___| |__| __) | |__| |_)
" I Know Where I'll Be When Lady Luck Finally Blows My Way...
She'll Put The Wind In My Sails And I'll Be Gone ... "
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