Where be all the females on country radio
Coop
in the top twenty. Is there just a flat lack of talented female singers
out there to fill the void or are the current singers unable to find the
pulse of the current country radio listener? IS no one writing a female
country song. What's the deal? Corporate radio doesn't think anyone
likes the ladies?
Coop
Janice Brooks
of by major stations.
As I stated earlier in the year I'm buying a lot of females including Wanda
Jacksons
Heart Trouble and the new one from Marti Brom.
BUS Janice
How do you feel about tight radio playlists?
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?BBCM58
jonathan fulham
"Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message news:3F9F0F3D...@twang.edu...
I heard that Reba's song is actually falling on the chart this week, peaking
at #14. That's just wrong. It's one of her best performances in ten years!
That song had #1 written all over it. But of course Reba is a veteran with
a long career, plus she is a woman over 45. That along disqualifies her on
radio from ever having a number one again. shame shame shame.
Hopefully Reba will do what Wynonna did. Wy's single also peaked at #14,
but her album debuted at #1! Let's hope Reba does the same and puts egg all
over radio's faces.
Country Boy
None of the above.
Look a little deeper than the Top 20. You'll find Sherrie Austin with
the biggest hit of her career. Jo Dee Messina is still around. Terri
Clark, Shania Twain, Sara Evans, and Wynonna are all getting airplay.
Just because they're not in the Top 20 doesn't mean they're not
getting airplay, not being heard, and not finding the pulse of the
current country radio listener. The fact is there are more women in
the charts now than there were 30 years ago. It's a big wide world
out there and you're spending too much time focusing on the tip of the
iceberg. Which, in my view, is the same mistake people make with
regards to country music and country radio. There's more to it than
what's popular, and more radio stations out there than the highest
rated stations.
Coop
Haven't we been through the difference between the number of spins in
the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
Coop
Coop
with their head up their butts. Feast or famine.
Coop
LJ
"Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
CB,
Just to save you a bit of time in making such long thoughtful posts that
basically say the same thing, just cut & paste the following.
"Country radio is never wrong. Consultants to country radio are never wrong.
It is everyone else, outside of country radio, that is wrong."
News Account
to advertisers, and girl singers (much to my dismay) don't fit the bill.
When we complain about radio, we ought to remember they are no different
than any other business. Banks sell money, Safeway sells groceries, radio
sells air time to advertisers.
Cordially,
Tom
Coop
exclude the ladies.
Coop
Country Boy
> the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
What's your point? I thought you were complaining that radio isn't
playing women. Now you're saying you want them to be played to the
same level as the artists you don't like. I would think you'd find it
refreshing that they're not overplaying some of the women to the same
degree you feel they are with some of the men.
And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases by
Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females in
a long time. Do you want them to play more Shania and Faith in order
to fill your quota?
Coop
Country Boy wrote:
> Coop <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message news:<3F9F0F3D...@twang.edu>...
>
>>Haven't we been through the difference between the number of spins in
>>the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
>
>
> What's your point? I thought you were complaining that radio isn't
> playing women. Now you're saying you want them to be played to the
> same level as the artists you don't like.
I'm pointing out that woman artist under the top 20 are basically
irrelevent in terms of air time.
I would think you'd find it
> refreshing that they're not overplaying some of the women to the same
> degree you feel they are with some of the men.
>
> And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases by
> Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females in
> a long time. Do you want them to play more Shania and Faith in order
> to fill your quota?
No, Faith and Shania are not the only females that have released
material to radio.
Coop
Country Boy
news:BBC59627.75EE%GLA...@REMOVE.att.net...
> Maybe radio stations have a specific demographic that they wish to deliver
> to advertisers, and girl singers (much to my dismay) don't fit the bill.
>
I used to read a lot of complaints here that there were too many mushy
songs on country radio, and that there weren't enough drinking and
cheating songs. It's possible that the radio folks feel they have all
the women, so the only growth market for country now is to attract
back some of the men.
I don't think it's an all or nothing situation. The charts only
represent current hits. Not the overall balance of the sexes on the
radio. I suspect that when you consider the incredible stockpile of
great songs from the last 15 years recorded by women, there's no
shortage of sopranos on the radio. Perhaps a more effective analysis
on this subject might be to look at a typical sample hour.
I'm not interested in quotas or quantity, but quality. I'd like to
think that's what most people want. What you really should ask is why
the women, even those getting a lot of radio airplay, aren't selling.
At all. Loveless, Wynonna, Sara Evans, and Terri Clark aren't selling
at all. Even with airplay. I'd say that's a more important issue.
Country Boy
>
>
> Country Boy wrote:
> > Coop <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
news:<3F9F0F3D...@twang.edu>...
> >
> >>Haven't we been through the difference between the number of spins in
> >>the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
> >
> >
> > What's your point? I thought you were complaining that radio isn't
> > playing women. Now you're saying you want them to be played to the
> > same level as the artists you don't like.
>
> I'm pointing out that woman artist under the top 20 are basically
> irrelevent in terms of air time.
>
No amount of airplay is irrelevent. As I said, you originally wanted
women to be heard. They are. End of discussion.
The charts move. Those outside the Top 20 today may be inside the Top
20 tomorrow. If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
of movement. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figures, the demand
is not there. Should radio play music that isn't selling?
>
> I would think you'd find it
> > refreshing that they're not overplaying some of the women to the same
> > degree you feel they are with some of the men.
> >
> > And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases by
> > Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females in
> > a long time. Do you want them to play more Shania and Faith in order
> > to fill your quota?
>
> No, Faith and Shania are not the only females that have released
> material to radio.
>
In fact, the truth is that Faith & Shania have been shunned at country
radio this year. Because of a mean-spirited campaign against their
new music. Perhaps what we're seeing now is some of the fall-out from
that campaign. But since Faith & Shania are women, and you're so
concerned about meeting a quota, they obviously would serve the
purpose. But that's also not what you want.
As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
Coop
Country Boy wrote:
> "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
>
>>
>>Country Boy wrote:
>>
>>>Coop <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
>>
> news:<3F9F0F3D...@twang.edu>...
>
>>>>Haven't we been through the difference between the number of spins in
>>>>the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
>>>
>>>
>>>What's your point? I thought you were complaining that radio isn't
>>>playing women. Now you're saying you want them to be played to the
>>>same level as the artists you don't like.
>>
>>I'm pointing out that woman artist under the top 20 are basically
>>irrelevent in terms of air time.
>>
>
>
> No amount of airplay is irrelevent. As I said, you originally wanted
> women to be heard. They are. End of discussion.
It is in today's radio. You don't make top 20, you failed.
>
> The charts move. Those outside the Top 20 today may be inside the Top
> 20 tomorrow. If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> of movement.
The charts are stagnant and have been for quite a while. AJ and
Buffett's song is still in there for goodness sakes and it's almost
November.
>
>>I would think you'd find it
>>
>>>refreshing that they're not overplaying some of the women to the same
>>>degree you feel they are with some of the men.
>>>
>>>And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases by
>>>Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females in
>>>a long time. Do you want them to play more Shania and Faith in order
>>>to fill your quota?
>>
>>No, Faith and Shania are not the only females that have released
>>material to radio.
>>
>
>
>
> In fact, the truth is that Faith & Shania have been shunned at country
> radio this year. Because of a mean-spirited campaign against their
> new music.
They have? Wow, one of the few woman to have cracked through was Shania.
Perhaps what we're seeing now is some of the fall-out from
> that campaign. But since Faith & Shania are women, and you're so
> concerned about meeting a quota, they obviously would serve the
> purpose. But that's also not what you want.
Trying to set up a strawman?
>
> As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
> getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
It is not getting significant airplay as a whole in the top 20 running
at about 10 % of the songs in there. That's pathetic.
Coop
Coop
Country Boy
>
> Just to save you a bit of time in making such long thoughtful posts that
> basically say the same thing, just cut & paste the following.
>
> "Country radio is never wrong. Consultants to country radio are never wrong.
> It is everyone else, outside of country radio, that is wrong."
Ahhhh, an oldie but goodie. It's been a long time since you posted
that. It doesn't reflect my opinion, but thanks for sharing.
Erik
>radio this year. Because of a mean-spirited campaign against their
>new music.
Mean-spirited? Just how did you arrive at this conclusion? I can't WAIT to hear
this. And besides that, despite the case that can be made that what happened to
the Dixie Chicks was the textbook definition of "mean-spirited," I see that
you've pretty much defended the Chicks' exclusion from country radio with
enough mealy-mouthed rationalizations to fill ten 18-wheelers, so I figure you
don't think the campaign against the Chicks was mean-spirited. Why is that?
Looks to me as if double standards are alive and well on Planet CB.
Erik
"I like George Jones, Willie and Waylon, I think Kris and Merle are songwritin'
saviors"--Cory Morrow
"God bless Texas, Country Music, Rednecks, Aggies, Taco
Cabanas, and of course, Jim Bob Jumpback!"--Nshvlbrat
Erik
>regards to country music and country radio. There's more to it than
>what's popular, and more radio stations out there than the highest
>rated stations.
Wow. And just exactly what class do you teach, CB? Talking Out Of Both Sides Of
Your Mouth 101?
Tregembo
This may be viewed as a very simplistic response but I believe it's true. A
very successful country singer told me once, "It's ALWAYS about the song."
My feeling is that there are currently more successful country hits
performed by male country singers because they're currently getting more
very good or great songs than the ladies.
Ray Arthur
Jon Weisberger
news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
> >
> >
> > Country Boy wrote:
> > > Coop <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
> news:<3F9F0F3D...@twang.edu>...
> > >
> > >>Haven't we been through the difference between the number of spins in
> > >>the top 20 vs the top 40 already.
> > >
> > >
> > > What's your point? I thought you were complaining that radio isn't
> > > playing women. Now you're saying you want them to be played to the
> > > same level as the artists you don't like.
> >
> > I'm pointing out that woman artist under the top 20 are basically
> > irrelevent in terms of air time.
> >
>
> No amount of airplay is irrelevent.
In CB land, one spin is as good as a thousand.
> The charts move. Those outside the Top 20 today may be inside the Top
> 20 tomorrow.
On the other hand, they may not. In which case, for all practical purposes,
they won't have been heard.
> If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> of movement. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figures, the demand
> is not there. Should radio play music that isn't selling?
A classic CB spin. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figure, there was
massive demand for, say, the music from O Brother, and there's demand for
artists like Alison Krauss and Nickel Creek. Yet in these cases, and
countless similar ones, CB has heatedly denied that there's any reason for
country radio to air stuff that *is* selling. Putting his various arguments
together, we must conclude that country radio shouldn't play stuff that
isn't selling, and shouldn't play stuff that is. Not much room for
maneuvering there.
> As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
> getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
The point was pretty clearly stated. Compared to the past decade or so, the
number of women in the top 20 at country radio - that is, among the tracks
getting the lion's share of airplay - is unusually low. Perhaps this is a
transient, coincidental phenomenon, perhaps not; it's certainly worth some
discussion, except in Country "country radio can do no wrong" Boy's eyes.
--
Jon Weisberger
Jon Weisberger
> In fact, the truth is that ...Shania [has] been shunned at country
> radio this year....
>
> ...Shania...had [at least one] radio hit this year.
Talk about turning on a dime!
--
Jon Weisberger
Country Boy
> > women to be heard. They are. End of discussion.
>
> It is in today's radio. You don't make top 20, you failed.
>
If you read my next paragraph, you'll see that if you give them a few
weeks, they'll make your beloved Top 20.
I think people set the bar too high these days. Everything has to see
platinum and go #1. And when they do, people attack them, say the
music's not good, and move on to the next thing. I think that's the
wrong way to approach music. I don't care if music is Top 20, or even
if it's played on the radio. In fact, if it ISN'T played on the
radio, I'm more likely to buy it.
I really can't understand why you have this need to have songs by
women in the Top 20. What difference does it make? Explain that to
me.
> >
> > The charts move. Those outside the Top 20 today may be inside the Top
> > 20 tomorrow. If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> > of movement.
>
> The charts are stagnant and have been for quite a while. AJ and
> Buffett's song is still in there for goodness sakes and it's almost
> November.
>
You really have a short memory. Back in the golden age of country
music "Crazy Arms" spent 5 months at #1, and was in the charts for 45
weeks. That was before consolidation and consultants. If it's a good
song, and people like it, it should continue to get played.
> >
> > In fact, the truth is that Faith & Shania have been shunned at country
> > radio this year. Because of a mean-spirited campaign against their
> > new music.
>
> They have? Wow, one of the few woman to have cracked through was Shania.
>
Her last #1 song was in 1998. "I'm Gonna Getcha Good" and "Up!"
didn't crack the Top 10. And remind me how many CMA nominations did
she get?
> Perhaps what we're seeing now is some of the fall-out from
> > that campaign. But since Faith & Shania are women, and you're so
> > concerned about meeting a quota, they obviously would serve the
> > purpose. But that's also not what you want.
>
> Trying to set up a strawman?
>
Just trying to figure out what your problem is.
> >
> > As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
> > getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> > Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
>
> It is not getting significant airplay as a whole in the top 20 running
> at about 10 % of the songs in there. That's pathetic.
>
No. That's the way things are. You don't get a big hit record just
because you happen to be a woman. Or just because you happen to be a
man. If you make good music, and you work hard to promote it, and
create the kind of artist personality that gets passionate support
from fans, you get airplay. If you don't, you don't.
Ryan
<<I really can't understand why you have this need to have songs by women in
the Top 20. What difference does it make? Explain that to me.>>
I was going to respond to one of your earlier posts on this topic, but then
I read one that contradicted it. Then I read another one that contradicted
what you wrote in the other 2.
How do you keep all of your thoughts/opinions straight when they change with
every post?
--
Ryan
"You're obviously useless and probably drunk" - Max Louis
Country Boy
news:BKKdnQs1-5r...@comcast.com...
>
> "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
> > >
> > >
> >
> > No amount of airplay is irrelevent.
>
>
The songs I'm talking about are just outside the Top 20. Which means
they actually are getting over a thousand spins. In point of fact,
Sherrie Austin is getting 1900 spins, JoDee Messina is getting 1500
spins, Terri Clark is getting 1200 spins, and Shania is getting 1100
spins. Oh that's right, Shania's not country, so she doesn't count.
> > The charts move. Those outside the Top 20 today may be inside the Top
> > 20 tomorrow.
>
> On the other hand, they may not. In which case, for all practical
purposes,
> they won't have been heard.
>
I hardly believe 1500 spins on 110 radio stations is not getting
heard.
From what I can see, the issue here is not whether or not this music
is being heard. Because obviously it is. I'm trying to get coop to
say exactly what the issue is, because the topic he placed on the
subject line is incorrect.
> > If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> > of movement. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figures, the demand
> > is not there. Should radio play music that isn't selling?
>
> A classic CB spin. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figure, there was
> massive demand for, say, the music from O Brother, and there's demand for
> artists like Alison Krauss and Nickel Creek. Yet in these cases, and
> countless similar ones, CB has heatedly denied that there's any reason for
> country radio to air stuff that *is* selling.
Look, we've covered this ground before. Albums by Nelly and Matchbox
20 are selling too. That's no reason for them to be played on
commercial country stations. Had the albums you mentioned contained
commercial country music, they would have been played on the
appropriate stations. Instead, they found airplay on stations that
fit the genre. I'd think you'd understand such a concept.
What you've actually done is dodged a very simple and relevant
question. If music by men is selling, and similar music by women
isn't, why should it get disproportionate airplay?
> > As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
> > getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> > Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
>
> The point was pretty clearly stated. Compared to the past decade or so,
the
> number of women in the top 20 at country radio - that is, among the tracks
> getting the lion's share of airplay - is unusually low. Perhaps this is a
> transient, coincidental phenomenon, perhaps not; it's certainly worth some
> discussion, except in Country "country radio can do no wrong" Boy's eyes.
>
Am I not discussing it? Am I saying it's not worth discussion? No.
First of all, perhaps we might look at how much airplay women get
BEFORE the 90s. That's when so many purists think country radio was
really country. Using your Whitburn book, if you weren't Dolly, Reba,
Crystal, or Janie, you weren't in the Top 25 of artists played in the
80s. The other 21 are male. In the 70s, there were 5 women and 20
men. In the 60s, only 3 women. In the 50s, only ONE. Was that a
problem? You tell me. Which men should have given their place to a
woman?
There are many things going on today that didn't happen a decade ago.
That doesn't mean that the reasons given by coop at the start of this
thread apply. Perhaps the success of women during the previous decade
led to the currect reaction or lethargy? There are many
possibilities, including the one I put forward, that many of the women
who were responsible for selling the most and were radio staples have,
for the most part, stopped recording. I think that's a point of view
worth considering, don't you?
Country Boy
news:20031029202700...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >Faith & Shania have been shunned at country
> >radio this year. Because of a mean-spirited campaign against their
> >new music.
>
What's your assessment of their singing abilities? I can't wait to
hear that.
> And besides that, despite the case that can be made that what
happened to
> the Dixie Chicks was the textbook definition of "mean-spirited," I see
that
> you've pretty much defended the Chicks' exclusion from country radio with
> enough mealy-mouthed rationalizations to fill ten 18-wheelers, so I figure
you
> don't think the campaign against the Chicks was mean-spirited. Why is
that?
> Looks to me as if double standards are alive and well on Planet CB.
>
Not at all. I didn't support the banning of The Chicks. I agree that
it was equally mean-spirited. I don't recall defending their
exclusion, other than to say it is the right of broadcasters to
respond to the majority of their listeners. That applies to the
Chicks as well as to any one else. I have also said that I still
listen to their music, and I personally attended their concerts, and
will continue to do so.
Jon Weisberger
"Tregembo" <tr...@krajfm.com> wrote in message
news:vq0spt7...@corp.supernews.com...
> My feeling is that there are currently more successful country hits
> performed by male country singers because they're currently getting more
> very good or great songs than the ladies.
If that's true - and it's admittedly got a large subjective component to
it - it kind of begs the question of why, doesn't it? And no, that's not a
rhetorical question, it's a substantive one. I expect the answer would be
fairly complicated, but that doesn't mean it's not worth looking for.
--
Jon Weisberger
Jon Weisberger
> > Country Boy wrote:
> > > "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
> > >
> > > No amount of airplay is irrelevent. As I said, you originally wanted
> > > women to be heard. They are. End of discussion.
> >
> > It is in today's radio. You don't make top 20, you failed.
>
> If you read my next paragraph, you'll see that if you give them a few
> weeks, they'll make your beloved Top 20.
That would be courtesy of the same CB crystal ball that last year predicted
"Mendocino County Line" would get into the Top 10. It peaked at #22. A lot
of songs never make it into the top 40, a lot never make it into the top 20,
and as I said last time this issue came up:
>I went and took a look at Radio & Records' country chart
>(http://www.rronline.com), and was startled to see that the top 10 new and
>actives accounted for 50% of all the spins given to the top 40. The top
>20...accounted for almost 79%. The next 20 - 50% of the records -
> accounted for barely 20% of the spins - but wait, it's actually even more
> lopsided than that, because recurrents don't show up there. The top 5
> recurrents all would have placed in the top 20 if they'd been counted,
> with two of them getting enough spins to have put them in the top 10
> on a consolidated chart. Adding them in makes the picture even worse:
> 25 or so songs are getting huge amounts of airtime...
--
Jon Weisberger
Jon Weisberger
"Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
> news:BKKdnQs1-5r...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
> > news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > No amount of airplay is irrelevent.
> >
> > In CB land, one spin is as good as a thousand.
> >
>
> The songs I'm talking about are just outside the Top 20. Which means
> they actually are getting over a thousand spins. In point of fact,
> Sherrie Austin is getting 1900 spins, JoDee Messina is getting 1500
> spins, Terri Clark is getting 1200 spins, and Shania is getting 1100
> spins. Oh that's right, Shania's not country, so she doesn't count.
I realize that when you have your head up your ass it's hard to tell one
person from another, but it's worth making the effort. I've never said
Shania's not country. The point is that the lion's share of top 40 airplay
goes to songs in the top 10, especially the top 5; on this week's R&R
country chart, for instance, there's roughly a 25% drop in spins between the
#5 and #7 songs. Songs that aren't in the top 20 don't get much airtime;
it's easy for even a regular country radio listener to never hear them.
> From what I can see, the issue here is not whether or not this music
> is being heard. Because obviously it is. I'm trying to get coop to
> say exactly what the issue is, because the topic he placed on the
> subject line is incorrect.
You can't see very much. The issue is whether or not this music is being
heard, because on a *practical* basis, where a song played 4000 times is
about 4 times as likely to get heard as a song played 1000 times and 1000
times more likely to get heard than a song played 4 times, a lot of it's not
getting heard.
> > > If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> > > of movement. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figures, the demand
> > > is not there. Should radio play music that isn't selling?
> >
> > A classic CB spin. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figure, there
was
> > massive demand for, say, the music from O Brother, and there's demand
for
> > artists like Alison Krauss and Nickel Creek. Yet in these cases, and
> > countless similar ones, CB has heatedly denied that there's any reason
for
> > country radio to air stuff that *is* selling.
>
> Look, we've covered this ground before. Albums by Nelly and Matchbox
> 20 are selling too. That's no reason for them to be played on
> commercial country stations. Had the albums you mentioned contained
> commercial country music, they would have been played on the
> appropriate stations. Instead, they found airplay on stations that
> fit the genre. I'd think you'd understand such a concept.
"Commercial country music" is a genre? And here I thought the genre was
country music, and the determining factor in whether it's commercial is
whether it sells. The artists and recordings I mention appear on country
music awards shows, are nominated for and win country music awards, play at
country music venues, have their albums stocked in the country music section
at many record stores, get airplay on country stations in secondary and
tertiary markets, have their videos aired on country music video channels
and are covered in the country music press, including on the country album
sales chart. None of this is true of red herrings Nelly and Matchbox 20.
The point being that sales figures show that the demand for a broader range
of country music, including more female artists, clearly exists, and it's
being largely ignored by country radio.
> What you've actually done is dodged a very simple and relevant
> question. If music by men is selling, and similar music by women
> isn't, why should it get disproportionate airplay?
There are 9 male acts in the top 20 on the airplay chart whose albums don't
appear in the top 20 in sales; there are 3 albums by female artists
(including one multi-artist compilation) in the top 20 in sales that aren't
on the top 20 airplay chart. Seems to me the simple and relevant question
is, why are men whose music isn't selling getting disproportionate airplay?
Oh, wait a minute, that's basically the question asked in the topic line you
call "incorrect."
> > > As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it is
> > > getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> > > Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
> >
> > The point was pretty clearly stated. Compared to the past decade or so,
> > the number of women in the top 20 at country radio - that is, among the
tracks
> > getting the lion's share of airplay - is unusually low. Perhaps this is
a
> > transient, coincidental phenomenon, perhaps not; it's certainly worth
some
> > discussion, except in Country "country radio can do no wrong" Boy's
eyes.
> >
>
> Am I not discussing it? Am I saying it's not worth discussion? No.
That's precisely what you've been saying, to wit - 1) there are lots of
women on country radio and 2) there aren't many women on country radio
because they're not selling. Therefore, as you said at the beginning of
your post, the topic is "incorrect."
> First of all, perhaps we might look at how much airplay women get
> BEFORE the 90s. That's when so many purists think country radio was
> really country.
Am I a purist? No. Are you? No. Ergo, this is another big, stinky red
herring.
--
Jon Weisberger
Country Boy
>
> "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
> > news:BKKdnQs1-5r...@comcast.com...
> > >
> > > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > > news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > No amount of airplay is irrelevent.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The songs I'm talking about are just outside the Top 20. Which means
> > they actually are getting over a thousand spins. In point of fact,
> > Sherrie Austin is getting 1900 spins, JoDee Messina is getting 1500
> > spins, Terri Clark is getting 1200 spins, and Shania is getting 1100
> > spins. Oh that's right, Shania's not country, so she doesn't count.
>
> I realize that when you have your head up your ass it's hard to tell one
> person from another, but it's worth making the effort. I've never said
> Shania's not country.
Aren't you the same person who just moments ago said that if I want to
speak with someone directly, I should do it in email? Obviously that
particular sentence isn't directed at you specifically. So ignore it,
and deal with the issue.
> The point is that the lion's share of top 40
airplay
> goes to songs in the top 10, especially the top 5; on this week's R&R
> country chart, for instance, there's roughly a 25% drop in spins between
the
> #5 and #7 songs. Songs that aren't in the top 20 don't get much airtime;
> it's easy for even a regular country radio listener to never hear them.
>
You seem to be saying the same thing coop is saying, so maybe you can
explain this to me. Why do you demand that songs, irrespective of
their quality or popularity, must be heard 4000 times a week, only
because of the sex of the artist?
> > From what I can see, the issue here is not whether or not this music
> > is being heard. Because obviously it is. I'm trying to get coop to
> > say exactly what the issue is, because the topic he placed on the
> > subject line is incorrect.
>
> You can't see very much. The issue is whether or not this music is being
> heard, because on a *practical* basis, where a song played 4000 times is
> about 4 times as likely to get heard as a song played 1000 times and 1000
> times more likely to get heard than a song played 4 times, a lot of it's
not
> getting heard.
>
Maybe you need to go back to the start of the thread. Because I
thought the issue was not comparative, in terms of 4 times vs. 2
times, but that music by women is not being heard at all. That is
obviously false.
> > > > If there's sufficient listener demand to drive that kind
> > > > of movement. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figures, the
demand
> > > > is not there. Should radio play music that isn't selling?
> > >
> > > A classic CB spin. Clearly, as we can see by the sales figure, there
> was
> > > massive demand for, say, the music from O Brother, and there's demand
> for
> > > artists like Alison Krauss and Nickel Creek. Yet in these cases, and
> > > countless similar ones, CB has heatedly denied that there's any reason
> for
> > > country radio to air stuff that *is* selling.
> >
> > Look, we've covered this ground before. Albums by Nelly and Matchbox
> > 20 are selling too. That's no reason for them to be played on
> > commercial country stations. Had the albums you mentioned contained
> > commercial country music, they would have been played on the
> > appropriate stations. Instead, they found airplay on stations that
> > fit the genre. I'd think you'd understand such a concept.
>
> "Commercial country music" is a genre?
Didn't you once explain to me all the sub-genres in country music?
Maybe I have you confused with someone else.
In any case, I'd think it's plainly obvious what I'm talking about.
If Ralph Stanley starts making music that fits in with a station that
plays Chesney, Twain, and Rascal Flatts, he'll get played on country
radio.
And here I thought the genre was
> country music, and the determining factor in whether it's commercial is
> whether it sells. The artists and recordings I mention appear on country
> music awards shows, are nominated for and win country music awards, play
at
> country music venues, have their albums stocked in the country music
section
> at many record stores, get airplay on country stations in secondary and
> tertiary markets, have their videos aired on country music video channels
> and are covered in the country music press, including on the country album
> sales chart. None of this is true of red herrings Nelly and Matchbox 20.
> The point being that sales figures show that the demand for a broader
range
> of country music, including more female artists, clearly exists, and it's
> being largely ignored by country radio.
>
Bla bla bla. Country radio doesn't care who gets nominated for
awards, unless they're the ones who do the nominating. So this
becomes a red herring.
> > What you've actually done is dodged a very simple and relevant
> > question. If music by men is selling, and similar music by women
> > isn't, why should it get disproportionate airplay?
>
> There are 9 male acts in the top 20 on the airplay chart whose albums
don't
> appear in the top 20 in sales; there are 3 albums by female artists
> (including one multi-artist compilation) in the top 20 in sales that
aren't
> on the top 20 airplay chart. Seems to me the simple and relevant question
> is, why are men whose music isn't selling getting disproportionate
airplay?
>
>
I'll accept that point. But consider why I asked that question.
Right now, new albums by Patty, Wynonna, Sara Evans, and Jo Dee
Messina, once multi-platinum artists, aren't selling enough for gold.
With radio airplay. I'd say that's a sympton of the real problem.
Not the things coop listed at the start of this thread.
> > > > As I said, many other women have released material to radio, and it
is
> > > > getting airplay. Sherrie, Sara, Wynonna, Patty, Jo Dee, Terri, and
> > > > Shania all had radio hits this year. So what's your point?
> > >
> > > The point was pretty clearly stated. Compared to the past decade or
so,
> > > the number of women in the top 20 at country radio - that is, among
the
> tracks
> > > getting the lion's share of airplay - is unusually low. Perhaps this
is
> a
> > > transient, coincidental phenomenon, perhaps not; it's certainly worth
> some
> > > discussion, except in Country "country radio can do no wrong" Boy's
> eyes.
> > >
> >
> > Am I not discussing it? Am I saying it's not worth discussion? No.
>
> That's precisely what you've been saying, to wit - 1) there are lots of
> women on country radio and 2) there aren't many women on country radio
> because they're not selling. Therefore, as you said at the beginning of
> your post, the topic is "incorrect."
>
Yet here I am discussing. However, it seems to me that what you want
me to do is simply agree with you. Most of the time I do. Here, I
don't.
> > First of all, perhaps we might look at how much airplay women get
> > BEFORE the 90s. That's when so many purists think country radio was
> > really country.
>
> Am I a purist? No. Are you? No. Ergo, this is another big, stinky red
> herring.
>
Once again, was that small sentence directed at you? No. Don't use a
few little words as an excuse for you to dodge a serious point. Deal
with it, if you can.
Janice Brooks
>(http://www.rronline.com), and was startled to see that the top 10 new and
>actives accounted for 50% of all the spins given to the top 40. The top
>20...accounted for almost 79%. The next 20 - 50% of the records -
> accounted for barely 20% of the spins - but wait, it's actually even more
> lopsided than that, because recurrents don't show up there. The top 5
> recurrents all would have placed in the top 20 if they'd been counted,
> with two of them getting enough spins to have put them in the top 10
> on a consolidated chart. Adding them in makes the picture even worse:
> 25 or so songs are getting huge amounts of airtime...
Reread those new standerds from Rand R and Billboard that were released a few
weeks ago and it will make sence.(to some of us)
Jon Weisberger
"Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
> news:WoqdncZukeD...@comcast.com...
> >
> > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
> > > news:BKKdnQs1-5r...@comcast.com...
> > > >
> > > > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > > > > "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
> > > > news:3FA035F6...@twang.edu...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No amount of airplay is irrelevent.
> > > >
> > > > In CB land, one spin is as good as a thousand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > The songs I'm talking about are just outside the Top 20. Which means
> > > they actually are getting over a thousand spins. In point of fact,
> > > Sherrie Austin is getting 1900 spins, JoDee Messina is getting 1500
> > > spins, Terri Clark is getting 1200 spins, and Shania is getting 1100
> > > spins. Oh that's right, Shania's not country, so she doesn't count.
> >
> > I realize that when you have your head up your ass it's hard to tell one
> > person from another, but it's worth making the effort. I've never said
> > Shania's not country.
>
> Aren't you the same person who just moments ago said that if I want to
> speak with someone directly, I should do it in email?
No, I'm the person who just moments ago said that if you wanted to speak
*exclusively* with someone directly you should do it in email.
> > The point is that the lion's share of top 40 airplay
> > goes to songs in the top 10, especially the top 5; on this week's R&R
> > country chart, for instance, there's roughly a 25% drop in spins between
> > the #5 and #7 songs. Songs that aren't in the top 20 don't get much
airtime;
> > it's easy for even a regular country radio listener to never hear them.
> >
>
> You seem to be saying the same thing coop is saying, so maybe you can
> explain this to me. Why do you demand that songs, irrespective of
> their quality or popularity, must be heard 4000 times a week, only
> because of the sex of the artist?
You seem to have jammed your head even further up your ass. Coop hasn't
issued such a demand, nor have I.
> > > From what I can see, the issue here is not whether or not this music
> > > is being heard. Because obviously it is. I'm trying to get coop to
> > > say exactly what the issue is, because the topic he placed on the
> > > subject line is incorrect.
> >
> > You can't see very much. The issue is whether or not this music is
being
> > heard, because on a *practical* basis, where a song played 4000 times is
> > about 4 times as likely to get heard as a song played 1000 times and
1000
> > times more likely to get heard than a song played 4 times, a lot of it's
> > not getting heard.
> >
>
> Maybe you need to go back to the start of the thread. Because I
> thought the issue was not comparative, in terms of 4 times vs. 2
> times, but that music by women is not being heard at all. That is
> obviously false.
If anyone needs to go back to the start of the thread, it would be you.
Coop's original post pointed out that there were only two established female
artists in the top 20 and wondered what might account for the relative
absence of women. The "not being heard at all" part is your straw man.
> > > Look, we've covered this ground before. Albums by Nelly and Matchbox
> > > 20 are selling too. That's no reason for them to be played on
> > > commercial country stations. Had the albums you mentioned contained
> > > commercial country music, they would have been played on the
> > > appropriate stations. Instead, they found airplay on stations that
> > > fit the genre. I'd think you'd understand such a concept.
> >
> > "Commercial country music" is a genre?
>
> Didn't you once explain to me all the sub-genres in country music?
> Maybe I have you confused with someone else.
There's no maybe about the fact that you are either confused or being
deliberately obtuse. "Commercial country music" isn't a genre or a
sub-genre.
> In any case, I'd think it's plainly obvious what I'm talking about.
> If Ralph Stanley starts making music that fits in with a station that
> plays Chesney, Twain, and Rascal Flatts, he'll get played on country
> radio.
As I have pointed out many times before, artists like Alison Krauss+Union
Station, Nickel Creek, Dolly Parton and others are making music that fits in
quite nicely with Chesney, Twain and Rascal Flatts, per commercially
successful country video outlets. Besides, you're the one who asserted a
logical connection between country album sales and mainstream country radio
airplay, only to disavow it moments later. Like I said, you have argued
that country radio shouldn't play stuff that doesn't sell, and that it
shouldn't play stuff that does. Why bring up sales in the first place,
then? Answer: a desire to justify mainstream country radio programming
practices at all costs.
> > And here I thought the genre was
> > country music, and the determining factor in whether it's commercial is
> > whether it sells. The artists and recordings I mention appear on
country
> > music awards shows, are nominated for and win country music awards, play
> > at country music venues, have their albums stocked in the country music
> > section at many record stores, get airplay on country stations in
secondary and
> > tertiary markets, have their videos aired on country music video
channels
> > and are covered in the country music press, including on the country
album
> > sales chart. None of this is true of red herrings Nelly and Matchbox
20.
> > The point being that sales figures show that the demand for a broader
> > range of country music, including more female artists, clearly exists,
and it's
> > being largely ignored by country radio.
> >
>
> Bla bla bla. Country radio doesn't care who gets nominated for
> awards, unless they're the ones who do the nominating. So this
> becomes a red herring.
Not in the least. You're the one who introduced the subject of "commercial
country music." I'm just pointing out that the PDs at reporting country
stations don't define what commercial country music is.
> > > What you've actually done is dodged a very simple and relevant
> > > question. If music by men is selling, and similar music by women
> > > isn't, why should it get disproportionate airplay?
> >
> > There are 9 male acts in the top 20 on the airplay chart whose albums
> > don't appear in the top 20 in sales; there are 3 albums by female
artists
> > (including one multi-artist compilation) in the top 20 in sales that
> > aren't on the top 20 airplay chart. Seems to me the simple and relevant
> > question is, why are men whose music isn't selling getting
disproportionate
> > airplay?
> >
> >
>
> I'll accept that point. But consider why I asked that question.
> Right now, new albums by Patty, Wynonna, Sara Evans, and Jo Dee
> Messina, once multi-platinum artists, aren't selling enough for gold.
> With radio airplay. I'd say that's a sympton of the real problem.
In CB land, "I'll accept that point" apparently means "I'll ignore that
point." Male artists who aren't selling enough for gold are all over the
top 20; female artists in the same position largely aren't. And female
artists who are selling better than that also aren't. What real problem is
that a symptom of?
> > > First of all, perhaps we might look at how much airplay women get
> > > BEFORE the 90s. That's when so many purists think country radio was
> > > really country.
> >
> > Am I a purist? No. Are you? No. Ergo, this is another big, stinky
red
> > herring.
> >
>
> Once again, was that small sentence directed at you? No. Don't use a
> few little words as an excuse for you to dodge a serious point.
It's not a serious point. It's a diversion, and a particularly stupid one,
like saying that to figure out the reason for an unusually low outdoor
temperature on a day in August one should look at typical temperatures in
January.
--
Jon Weisberger
Country Boy
> >I went and took a look at Radio & Records' country chart
> >(http://www.rronline.com), and was startled to see that the top 10 new and
> >actives accounted for 50% of all the spins given to the top 40. The top
> >20...accounted for almost 79%. The next 20 - 50% of the records -
> > accounted for barely 20% of the spins - but wait, it's actually even more
> > lopsided than that, because recurrents don't show up there. The top 5
> > recurrents all would have placed in the top 20 if they'd been counted,
> > with two of them getting enough spins to have put them in the top 10
> > on a consolidated chart. Adding them in makes the picture even worse:
> > 25 or so songs are getting huge amounts of airtime...
>
>
> Reread those new standerds from Rand R and Billboard that were released a few
> weeks ago and it will make sence.(to some of us)
>
Funny how you say the new criteria is tightening playlists, yet this
observation from Jon was well before the changes. Which proves what I
said to you before. The new criteria didn't change a thing, they just
reflected changes that had already been in place at the majority of
the reporting stations.
There's another way of looking at this, and a way you may not have
considered: Since there is little difference between the number of
spins a song gets at #5 and #1, it's not that important (except
statistically) to get a #1 anymore. And there's not just one #1, but
really five #1s.
On the other side, consider how many great songs get recorded and
released every year. This question is about quality music.
Realistically. Maybe 20? So why should every song that gets recorded
and released, irrespective of quality or popularity, get airplay and
have an unchallenged shot at #1? All that's happening is what critics
have asked for all along: To play the bad songs less and to play the
good songs more. Of course that opens the door to what makes a song
good or bad, and that's another discussion.
Jeffy3
> This may be viewed as a very simplistic response but I believe it's true. A
> very successful country singer told me once, "It's ALWAYS about the song."
> My feeling is that there are currently more successful country hits
> performed by male country singers because they're currently getting more
> very good or great songs than the ladies.
>
> Ray Arthur
Good point. Reba's new song is mediocre, in my humble opinion. Ranks
down there with "Why Haven't I Heard from You" and "Take it Back".
bp
acapella opening to Sonya's high harmony on the last chorus, the vocals are
great. And musically, Reba hasn't recorded anything like it in some time.
But I have a hard time equating "good songs" to the level of "success" a
song achieves, not only because of the subjectivity involved but also
because of the various other factors that play a role.
As an aside, I was really hoping this song would have put Reba back on the
top of the charts. It started like a blaze of fire and then fizzled, even
moreso than other fast-rising songs have in recent memory.
Stacy P.
PPPPumpkineater
>Is there just a flat lack of talented female singers out there<
As usual, as you've proven with the Forrester Sisters, :) you just don't get
it.
It has little to do with the "singers".
PPPPumpkineater
>I heard that Reba's song is actually falling on the chart this week, peaking
at #14. That's just wrong. It's one of her best performances in ten years!<
Please. Her only performance has been to get her husband to sign a pre-nuptual!
:)
She's been mailing it in, for more than 20 years, and now suddenly someone is
supposed to take her seriously? LOL!
>Hopefully Reba will do what Wynonna did.<
It's already happened. :) These two women are more hated than Michael Jackson!
>Let's hope Reba does the same and puts egg all over radio's faces.<
Too funny! Sadly, NOBODY takes her seriously anymore.
At this point in her career, her only chance would be to let somebody put cum,
all over hers! :)
PPPPumpkineater
> A very successful country singer told me once, "It's ALWAYS about the
song."<
Please. I told you the SAME THING, and you argued with me about it . :)
Face it Conway, you're a woman trapped in a man's body! :)
Coop
Jon Weisberger wrote:
>
> If anyone needs to go back to the start of the thread, it would be you.
> Coop's original post pointed out that there were only two established female
> artists in the top 20 and wondered what might account for the relative
> absence of women. The "not being heard at all" part is your straw man.
>
>
Bingo, what about it is so hard to comprehend? Along with Ray, I
wondered if they just weren't putting out very good songs but this has
gone on now for an extended period of time. It bears discussion.
Coop
News Account
that if they are trying to reach say, married women in the 25-45 age group
(a rather popular group for advertisers), the AJ, George, Kenny, Tim, Toby
et al. might do a better job at keeping the Moms tuned in.
And maybe we can use an exception to prove the rule, viz. Martina is
getting lots of spins these days, but the song is definitely one for the
girls, literally. (I love Martina. Much of her stuff has very broad
male/female appeal, but this not a song that "moves" me, though I can see
how women would like it.) The same might be said for Sherrie Austin's
Streets of Heaven, which would explain its placement in the Top 20.
Cordially,
Tom
> From: Coop <co...@twang.edu>
> Organization: Mutt,Inc.
> Newsgroups: rec.music.country.western
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:15:16 -0800
> Subject: Re: Where be all the females on country radio
>
> What possible demographic would radio be trying to reach that would
> exclude the ladies.
>
> Coop
>
> News Account wrote:
>> Maybe radio stations have a specific demographic that they wish to deliver
>> to advertisers, and girl singers (much to my dismay) don't fit the bill.
>>
>> When we complain about radio, we ought to remember they are no different
>> than any other business. Banks sell money, Safeway sells groceries, radio
>> sells air time to advertisers.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>> From: Coop <co...@twang.edu>
>>> Organization: Mutt,Inc.
>>> Newsgroups: rec.music.country.western
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:52:13 -0800
>>> Subject: Where be all the females on country radio
>>>
>>> Once again the charts show only two established artist,Reba and Martina,
>>> in the top twenty. Is there just a flat lack of talented female singers
>>> out there to fill the void or are the current singers unable to find the
>>> pulse of the current country radio listener? IS no one writing a female
>>> country song. What's the deal? Corporate radio doesn't think anyone
>>> likes the ladies?
>>>
>>> Coop
>>>
>>
>>
>
Coop
What is it with you and the Forester Sisters anyways? They had a few
hits. They're gone. So what?
Coop
Country Boy
> "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
>
> > If Ralph Stanley starts making music that fits in with a station that
> > plays Chesney, Twain, and Rascal Flatts, he'll get played on country
> > radio.
>
> As I have pointed out many times before, artists like Alison Krauss+Union
> Station, Nickel Creek, Dolly Parton and others are making music that fits in
> quite nicely with Chesney, Twain and Rascal Flatts, per commercially
> successful country video outlets.
Apples and oranges. In case you haven't noticed, radio is the outlet
without the pictures. And CMT is the outlet that has been criticized
for appealing to teens and ignoring the bulk of the country audience.
So I don't think country radio should emulate CMT. I appreciate the
diversity in approaches by the various media outlets. Isn't that what
the critics of broadcasting want? Diversity, and not the same thing
everywhere?
> Besides, you're the one who asserted a
> logical connection between country album sales and mainstream country radio
> airplay, only to disavow it moments later.
I didn't disavow it at all.
> Like I said, you have argued
> that country radio shouldn't play stuff that doesn't sell, and that it
> shouldn't play stuff that does.
I didn't argue it in any way. I merely asked a question. You're the
one who has turned a simple question into an argument.
> Why bring up sales in the first place,
> then? Answer: a desire to justify mainstream country radio programming
> practices at all costs.
>
I have absolutely no reason to do any such thing. And in fact the
practices are justified in ratings books every day. They don't need
me or anyone else to justify them.
> > Bla bla bla. Country radio doesn't care who gets nominated for
> > awards, unless they're the ones who do the nominating. So this
> > becomes a red herring.
>
> Not in the least. You're the one who introduced the subject of "commercial
> country music."
And you're the one who introduced awards.
> I'm just pointing out that the PDs at reporting country
> stations don't define what commercial country music is.
>
Actually, with respect to the stations they program, they do. And as
a collective, they define what is commercial country music on the
radio in this point in time. The other two-thirds of the CMA
membership may disagree, and that's their right. But it has no role
in determining radio programming.
> > > > What you've actually done is dodged a very simple and relevant
> > > > question. If music by men is selling, and similar music by women
> > > > isn't, why should it get disproportionate airplay?
> > >
> > > There are 9 male acts in the top 20 on the airplay chart whose albums
> > > don't appear in the top 20 in sales; there are 3 albums by female
> artists
> > > (including one multi-artist compilation) in the top 20 in sales that
> > > aren't on the top 20 airplay chart. Seems to me the simple and relevant
> > > question is, why are men whose music isn't selling getting
> disproportionate
> > > airplay?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I'll accept that point. But consider why I asked that question.
> > Right now, new albums by Patty, Wynonna, Sara Evans, and Jo Dee
> > Messina, once multi-platinum artists, aren't selling enough for gold.
> > With radio airplay. I'd say that's a sympton of the real problem.
>
> In CB land, "I'll accept that point" apparently means "I'll ignore that
> point." Male artists who aren't selling enough for gold are all over the
> top 20; female artists in the same position largely aren't. And female
> artists who are selling better than that also aren't. What real problem is
> that a symptom of?
>
That's your way of dodging the question. I'll ask it again, since you
can't seem to focus: Why are new albums by Patty, Wynonna, Sara Evans,
and Jo Dee Messina, once multi-platinum artists, not selling well now?
> > > > First of all, perhaps we might look at how much airplay women get
> > > > BEFORE the 90s. That's when so many purists think country radio was
> > > > really country.
> > >
> > > Am I a purist? No. Are you? No. Ergo, this is another big, stinky
> red
> > > herring.
> > >
> >
> > Once again, was that small sentence directed at you? No. Don't use a
> > few little words as an excuse for you to dodge a serious point.
>
> It's not a serious point. It's a diversion, and a particularly stupid one,
> like saying that to figure out the reason for an unusually low outdoor
> temperature on a day in August one should look at typical temperatures in
> January.
It's not a diversion. It's directly to the point. I'm talking about
history here. I thought that was an area of your specialization. I
constantly read in this group how what happened in the 90s ruined
country music. So perhaps what's happening now is a return to the
male-domination that existed in country music for the majority of its
history. The critics of modern country should be celebrating.
Country Boy
> "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > > goes to songs in the top 10, especially the top 5; on this week's R&R
> > > country chart, for instance, there's roughly a 25% drop in spins between
> > > the #5 and #7 songs. Songs that aren't in the top 20 don't get much
> airtime;
> > > it's easy for even a regular country radio listener to never hear them.
> > >
> >
> > You seem to be saying the same thing coop is saying, so maybe you can
> > explain this to me. Why do you demand that songs, irrespective of
> > their quality or popularity, must be heard 4000 times a week, only
> > because of the sex of the artist?
>
> You seem to have jammed your head even further up your ass. Coop hasn't
> issued such a demand, nor have I.
OK Maybe demand is too strong a word. Once again, you're parsing
every single word I say. But both of you seem to feel that songs,
irrespective of quality or popularity, should be played only because
of the sex of the artist. Why should the sex of the artist be a
factor in a song getting airplay?
Coop
I'm asking why have there been relatively fewer women making it to the
top 20 the past year and a half or so. Is it related to gender? Is it
related to a vacuum left by Faith and the Chicks that no one has been
able to fill? Is it just plain poor material released by the ladies?
Have songwriters stopped pitching their best material to the ladies?
Are the songs they've released stuck in a pop flavor that listeners have
moved away from? Is it an over-reaction by radio to get more male
artist on the radio? Just thought it could be an interesting discussion.
Coop
Country Boy
>
> I'm asking why have there been relatively fewer women making it to the
> top 20 the past year and a half or so. Is it related to gender? Is it
> related to a vacuum left by Faith and the Chicks that no one has been
> able to fill? Is it just plain poor material released by the ladies?
> Have songwriters stopped pitching their best material to the ladies?
> Are the songs they've released stuck in a pop flavor that listeners have
> moved away from? Is it an over-reaction by radio to get more male
> artist on the radio? Just thought it could be an interesting discussion.
>
>
I agree, and it's too bad people would rather engage in personal
attacks than actually discuss it. I hope I've brought up a number of
thoughts on the issue, including the one you keep ignoring, which is
that the fact that many of the most popular women from the 90s haven't
released any new music. You can't have a Top 20 song if you don't
release a single. Personally, if it was up to me, I wouldn't put
"This One's For the Girls" in the Top 20 either, because it's hardly a
quality song.
Coop
Sara Evans released a new project that has pretty much tanked on radio
so far. I'm looking at it wondering if she's chasing a boat that has
already left the dock. I can't help but wonder if stuff from her
earlier albums would actually fare better on the radio today.
Coop
Jon Weisberger
> "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
news:<WKmdnbGzstZ...@comcast.com>...
> > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:6e4503ce.03102...@posting.google.com...
> > > You seem to be saying the same thing coop is saying, so maybe you can
> > > explain this to me. Why do you demand that songs, irrespective of
> > > their quality or popularity, must be heard 4000 times a week, only
> > > because of the sex of the artist?
> >
> > You seem to have jammed your head even further up your ass. Coop hasn't
> > issued such a demand, nor have I.
>
> OK Maybe demand is too strong a word. Once again, you're parsing
> every single word I say.
Yeah. Awful, isn't it - responding to what someone's written instead of
putting words in his mouth and then arguing with those. You might ought to
try it yourself sometime....
> But both of you seem to feel that songs,
> irrespective of quality or popularity, should be played only because
> of the sex of the artist.
...but apparently not this time. Nothing either one of us has written in
this thread remotely resembles what you say we "seem to feel."
--
Jon Weisberger
Ritaloves3
>Date: 10/30/03 4:11 PM Easte
>Is it related to gender?
No.
>Is it
>related to a vacuum left by Faith and the Chicks that no one has been
>able to fill?
Not hardly.
> Is it just plain poor material released by the ladies?
Yep.
>Have songwriters stopped pitching their best material to the ladies?
Doesn't have anything to do with it.
>Are the songs they've released stuck in a pop flavor that listeners have
>moved away from?
Bingo!
>Is it an over-reaction by radio to get more male
>artist on the radio?
Nope.
> Just thought it could be an interesting discussion.
>
It was.
RKerseyJr
>>
>
>Her last #1 song was in 1998. "I'm Gonna Getcha Good" and "Up!"
>didn't crack the Top 10.
Actually that's not accurate.
Shania's "I'm Gonna Getcha Good!" song Peaked at # 7 on the Billboard Country
Airplay chart.
Her "Up!" song Peaked at # 11 on that same chart.
"Forever and For Always" Peaked at # 4.
"She's Not Just A Pretty Face" is her 4th single from her "Up!" album and it's
rising.
At the time, Shania's "Forever and For Always" # 4 peak was the 2nd highest
peaking single for ANY Female artist in over 18 months. The 1 Female artist
who had a single peak higher was Terri Clark - her lead-off single from her
last album peaked at # 2 on the Billboard Country Airplay chart.
No Female artist has been at # 1 on the Billboard Country Airplay chart since
Martina was there with "Blessed." Martina's "...For the Girls" song is
currently the only single by a Female artist in the top 10, and it's dropping
rapidly.
Coop
RKerseyJr wrote:
>
> At the time, Shania's "Forever and For Always" # 4 peak was the 2nd highest
> peaking single for ANY Female artist in over 18 months. The 1 Female artist
> who had a single peak higher was Terri Clark - her lead-off single from her
> last album peaked at # 2 on the Billboard Country Airplay chart.
>
> No Female artist has been at # 1 on the Billboard Country Airplay chart since
> Martina was there with "Blessed." Martina's "...For the Girls" song is
> currently the only single by a Female artist in the top 10, and it's dropping
> rapidly.
Doesn't it seem like a bit much to attribute all that to poor song
selection for 18 months or more?
Coop
RKerseyJr
>>
>
>Her last #1 song was in 1998. "I'm Gonna Getcha Good" and "Up!"
>she get?
As far as the CMA nominations go: Even without the CMA Nominations, Shania is
doing pretty good. Her "Up!" album has sold more than all of the CMA Female
Vocalist nominees combined. Her singles also continue to chart higher than
them, with the one exception being Martina.
The Nominations haven't helped the sales of any of the Female Vocalist
Nominees. Martina's new album is even struggling on the charts. (After just 4
weeks on the chart, Martina's new album is down to # 42 on the Billboard 200
chart this week.)
After Martina, none of the other Female Vocalist nominees are even on the sales
radar. Terri Clark had the benefit of a # 2 Billboard Country Airplay chart
hit and her album still flopped. Like it or not, sales are what keeps an
artist on their label, not who gets the most # 1 songs or CMA nominations.
Airplay helps a lot, but only when it contributes to album sales.
Erik
Actually, believe it or not, I think Faith is a great singer who just chooses
to saddle herself with extremely bad material. As for Shania, well, suffice it
to say I've heard much better....
>I don't recall defending their
>exclusion, other than to say it is the right of broadcasters to
>respond to the majority of their listeners.
So, in other words, you think broadcasters had the right to do that even though
for one, it WAS mean spirited, and it was perpetrated via a publicly-owned,
finite resource?
Erik
"I like George Jones, Willie and Waylon, I think Kris and Merle are songwritin'
saviors"--Cory Morrow
"God bless Texas, Country Music, Rednecks, Aggies, Taco
Cabanas, and of course, Jim Bob Jumpback!"--Nshvlbrat
Jon Weisberger
> "Coop" <co...@twang.edu> wrote in message
news:3FA17E92...@twang.edu...
> >
> > I'm asking why have there been relatively fewer women making it to the
> > top 20 the past year and a half or so. Is it related to gender? Is it
> > related to a vacuum left by Faith and the Chicks that no one has been
> > able to fill? Is it just plain poor material released by the ladies?
> > Have songwriters stopped pitching their best material to the ladies?
> > Are the songs they've released stuck in a pop flavor that listeners have
> > moved away from? Is it an over-reaction by radio to get more male
> > artist on the radio? Just thought it could be an interesting
discussion.
> >
> >
>
> I agree, and it's too bad people would rather engage in personal
> attacks than actually discuss it. I hope I've brought up a number of
Yeah, you have. They fall into three categories:
1. Misrepresentation - suggesting, for instance, that Coop's questions mean
that he "feels" that female artists should appear in the Top 20 regardless
of quality, or that he believes that there are no women getting airplay on
mainstream country radio.
2. Evasion and denial - suggesting, for instance, that the difference in
airplay between a top 10 or top 20 track and a track which doesn't make the
top 20 is negligible, or that the proper comparison isn't between "the past
year and a half or so" and the year and a half or more immediately preceding
it, but between today and 50 years ago.
3. Faulty reasoning - suggesting, for instance, that the relative absence
of women in the top 20 can be explained by the fact that their albums aren't
selling well, despite the fact that women whose albums *are* selling well
aren't in the top 20, and men whose albums *aren't* selling well are.
All in all, your contributions to this thread have been pretty worthless.
> ...including the one you keep ignoring, which is
> that the fact that many of the most popular women from the 90s haven't
> released any new music. You can't have a Top 20 song if you don't
> release a single.
Name 10 of the most popular women from the 90s still in the business who
haven't released new music in the last year and a half.
--
Jon Weisberger
"MIDIcian" (tm)
> [KILOWHINE-snip!]
>
> Jon Weisberger
Gee, don't you have anything better to do than to whine all the time (like
perhaps, defending your name from the Palistinian/Nazi/KKK'rs lying type
propaganda artists? (hint - don't do it in their threads - create your own
"fenced in place" (Saturday Night) (that will come up again in the near
future (from me, at least)) and control it))
Stan Rosenthal
~^Johnny^~
>Good point. Reba's new song is mediocre, in my humble opinion. Ranks
>down there with "Why Haven't I Heard from You" and "Take it Back".
JMO: If _____________ covered every single Reba hit, more than half
to two-thirds of them would be better suited to the song. {fill in
the blank with a pick from any of a list of a dozen or more artists}
One exception would have to be "Sunday Kind Of Love" (Etta James
fans, shut up). ;-O
Consider Marie Osmond's cover of "Love Will Find Its Way To You".
It's markedly better, IMHO.
But then again, I am _just a little_ biased toward Marie... :-)))
--
-john
~~~~~~
"Smith did such an impressive job you expected Twain
to give her the hook at any moment"
-Larry Pynn, Vancouver Sun.
http://www.bobbi-smith.com/
~~~~~~
~^Johnny^~
wrote:
>I used to read a lot of complaints here that there were too many mushy
>songs on country radio, and that there weren't enough drinking and
>cheating songs.
Whatever happened to those rare gems; those that got down without
getting dirty -- like "Blanket On The Ground", "Would You Lay With Me
(In A Field Of Stone)", "Morning Ride", etc...
Great songs; great memories.
Country Boy
>
> Name 10 of the most popular women from the 90s still in the business who
> haven't released new music in the last year and a half.
I think I already addressed this subject. Perhaps you've forgotten
what a discussion is. You seem to prefer inquisition.
Jon Weisberger
news:<486dnTz0Kf_...@comcast.com>...
> >
> > Name 10 of the most popular women from the 90s still in the business who
> > haven't released new music in the last year and a half.
>
>
> I think I already addressed this subject.
I think you haven't. Not in this newsgroup, anyhow. Another CB dead end.
--
Jon Weisberger
Country Boy
The only thing dead is your head. Maybe you didn't see this:
"And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases
by Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females
in a long time."
JackOLanternnnnn
>in the top twenty.
Thats two too many. :) They both attended the Star Search school of vocal
histronics,and haven't uttered very little of ANYTHING worth listening to, BUT
thanks to their female fans, they'll be recording when they're 90!
There's never been a man on the face of the planet who ever bought anything
these two dim-wits have ever recorded.
That, in a nutshell, is the problem. WOMEN!
Women by and large, don't care about music, AND NEVER HAVE! Re-read that about
a MILLION times, until it begins to sink in. IT'S A FACT!
They are by definition shallow and manipulative, and lack a soul, which
appreciating music, requires.
WOMEN have given us all the crap of the last 40 years from Eddy Arnold, to
Sonny James, to Reba McEntire to Jim Reeves to Conway Twitty to Dolly Parton,to
The Staler Sisters to Kenny Rogers to The Oak Ridge Girls, to the Dixie Twits
to Garth Brooks to Shania Twain!
>Is there just a flat lack of talented female singers out there <
HELLO!!!! It's never been about singers, it's about the "SONG".
I was never sure if you were male or female, but you've just proven yourself to
be female.(and probably one of the Forrester Sisters.) :)
>are the current singers unable to find the
pulse of the current country radio listener?
<
Please. What pulse? Have you forgotten Shania Twain ! She can record when she's
in a Nursing home, and as long as she continues the persona of the strong
defiant woman, she'll continue to sell in the gazillions. It has NOTHING to do
with the music, because all her fans are women AND by definition sheep. It a
three minute fantasy, everytime the song comes on!
>IS no one writing a female
>country song. <
Please. Try Heather Myles, Danni Leigh and Erin Hay.
>Corporate radio doesn't think anyone likes the ladies?<
No. Corporate radio KNOWS nobody likes the ladies. :) They've ALL shot
themselves in the foot. They've done what women ALWAYS do, they've given it up
to be taken care of.
Patti Loveless just happens to marry her producer! :) How convenient! :)
Faith Hill just happens to try to marry her's, :) or Alan Jackson, :) or just
about anyone else with money, :) and then gets a better offer by marrying the
most successful male singer around, and then naturally agrees to stay barefoot
and pregnant, for the next millenium.
I guess it's a safe bet Ol' Tim forgot to go with the standard "pre-nuptual"
agrement! :) Trust me, it's gonna get UGLY! :)
Shania Twain still sings songs about empowerment, but at the same time, AGAIN,
just so happens to marry her rich, 97 year-old producer husband, and lives like
a princess, in castles only seen in fairy tales! :)
Let's be honest. There ain't much difference between her and Anna Nicole Smith!
:) Once a woman, ALWAYS a woman! :)
Trisha Yearwood, like Garth Brooks, was set for life, as the poster children
for fat unattractive people EVERYWHERE, :) and promptly went out and destroyed
BOTH their careers, by doing the one thing that other fat unnattractive people
everywhere, will NOT tolerate: ADULTERY!
Wynonna Judd ditches the old lady, who somehow picked up a severe liver
infection, while attending church services, :) and promptly marries the
used-car salesman, :) who also happens to have been Elizabth Taylor's 13th
husband! She then proceeds to divorce him, :) and before the ink is dry, she's
being sued for sexual harassment, for checking out the "assets" of one of her
female employees, without the employee's permission, :) LOL! :) I hate to be
the one to break it to you, BUT fat lesbian biker chicks, have had a hard time
selling in country music! :)
Jon Weisberger
"JackOLanternnnnn" <jackolan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031031142327...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> That, in a nutshell, is the problem. WOMEN!
>
> Women by and large, don't care about music, AND NEVER HAVE! Re-read that
about
> a MILLION times, until it begins to sink in. IT'S A FACT!
>
> They are by definition shallow and manipulative, and lack a soul, which
> appreciating music, requires.
Looks like Esker's trolling for a new boyfriend.
--
Jon Weisberger
Jon Weisberger
"Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6e4503ce.03103...@posting.google.com...
> "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
news:<NZSdnaW4dYL...@comcast.com>...
> > "Country Boy" <country...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:6e4503ce.03103...@posting.google.com...
> > > "Jon Weisberger" <jonwei...@zoomtown.com> wrote in message
> > news:<486dnTz0Kf_...@comcast.com>...
> > > >
> > > > Name 10 of the most popular women from the 90s still in the business
who
> > > > haven't released new music in the last year and a half.
> > >
> > >
> > > I think I already addressed this subject.
> >
> > I think you haven't. Not in this newsgroup, anyhow. Another CB dead
end.
>
> The only thing dead is your head. Maybe you didn't see this:
>
> "And haven't we already pointed out that we have had no new releases
> by Trisha, Lee Ann, Mary Chapin, or most of the other quality females
> in a long time."
In your mind, 3 women - at least two of whom *have* released at least one
single to country radio in the last year and a half - constitute "many of
the most popular women from the 90s?" Kind of the way that in your mind,
"only two established female artists in the top 20" translates to "female
artists aren't getting airplay?" Or the way that "I wonder what might
account for a notable absence of women in the top 20 compared to just two or
three years ago" translates to "I demand that radio play female artists
regardless of quality?" That would explain a lot.
--
Jon Weisberger
Shawn Lockerson
also buy Martina's CD's but as of right now I will not be buying
Martina's new one because the first single is terrible.
Shawn
Michael Cox
"Do You Still Want To Buy Me That Drink" but it is not getting much airplay
at all. But I'm sure if it were on a major label it would be getting much
more support than it is currently getting from the independent label she's
with.
Check out her website if you want to hear the song.
www.lorrie.com
WickedWitchOfNG
You Still Want To Buy Me That Drink"<
I doubt it, and it's too bad, too. I heard three songs from her last cd with
Sammy Kershaw, and I was very impressed.
But it's the same ol' thing, the frumpy female demographic. Lori Morgan is
strikingly beautiful, make that STRIKINGLY beautiful, has a very cold
no-nonsence edge to her, and is seen as a trampy, man-stealing home-wrecker.
Talk about three strikes and you're out, with today's demographic!
I'm afraid at this point, she could release a Christmas duet with Jesus Christ,
and all the suburban soccer-moms still wouldn't buy it. :)
It's too bad too, because like I said, her last CD had some "killer" stuff on
it, and she definitely is one of the ONLY bright lights out there today, when
it comes to female country singers.
Let's be honest, how many of these forgettable singers on the charts today,
have EVER even had ONE song, that could even compete with "What Part Of NO" ?
Redd
it. Unfortunately, we probably aren't going to hear it on the radio.
I really miss hearing the girls from the 90s. I am guessing part of
the problem is that radio isn't typically very kind to females near or
over 40.
I would love to hear Mary Chapin Carpenter, Lorrie Morgan and Tanya
Tucker singing one of their unique attitude songs on the
radio.....but, what we get instead is pop or shades of bluegrass.
"Michael Cox" <mike...@insightbb.com> wrote in message news:<YbCob.72897$Tr4.194275@attbi_s03>...
Country Boy
> I heard Lorrie sing this song on the Opry a few weeks ago and I like
> it. Unfortunately, we probably aren't going to hear it on the radio.
>
> I really miss hearing the girls from the 90s. I am guessing part of
> the problem is that radio isn't typically very kind to females near or
> over 40.
>
Age doesn't seem to be the specific problem with Lorrie. Nor is it
the fact that she's on an indie label. She had problems getting hits
when she was on RCA and when she was in her 30s. And she couldn't get
a record contract when she was in her 20s. Even though she was
already a member of The Opry and was singing professionally in shows
all over the country.
Personally, I hear the "girls from the 90s" all the time on my country
radio station. In fact I hear more of the 90s ladies than I do the
new women. Just yesterday I heard Down at the Twist & Shout, and not
a day goes by when I don't hear either The Judds or Wynonna.
"MIDIcian" (tm)
+- +- +- +-news:wfSdnT2aq5f...@comcast.com...
Michael Cox
the fact that she's on an indie label. She had problems getting hits
when she was on RCA and when she was in her 30s. And she couldn't get
a record contract when she was in her 20s. Even though she was
already a member of The Opry and was singing professionally in shows
all over the country
Have to disagree with you on this one. When Lorrie was on RCA/BNA during
her 30's she had many hit records. Have you forgotten some of these titles:
What Part of No
Watch Me
Something In Red
We Both Walk
Good As I Was To You
Five Minutes
He Talks To Me
Half Enough
By My Side
Go Away
One Of Those Nights Tonight
Except For Monday
A Picture Of Me Without You
I Guess You Had To Be There
I Didn't Know My Own Strength
Back In Your Arms Again
Country Boy
> Age doesn't seem to be the specific problem with Lorrie. Nor is it
> the fact that she's on an indie label. She had problems getting hits
> when she was on RCA and when she was in her 30s. And she couldn't get
> a record contract when she was in her 20s. Even though she was
> already a member of The Opry and was singing professionally in shows
> all over the country
>
>
> Have to disagree with you on this one. When Lorrie was on RCA/BNA during
> her 30's she had many hit records. Have you forgotten some of these titles:
>
No I haven't. She also had a number of misses during her RCA/BNA
years. My Night to Howl peaked at #31. Heart Over Mind peaked at
#39. Standing Tall peaked at #32. She was still signed to RCA until
about a year ago, when she released her duet album (I Finally Found
Someone) with Sammy Kershaw. Several singles were released (He Drinks
Tequila, I Finally Found Someone), none reached the Top 30. This is
while she was on a major label. I'm not saying she didn't have hits.
She had enough to make a Greatest Hits album. But there are factors
other than her age and the size of her label.
Redd
pretty prolific hitmaker for a fairly lengthy period of time.
I guess I should have been more specific when I said I missed hearing
from the girls from the 90s -- I wish I could hear some new music from
them on the radio. Some of them have come out with new music but
hearing it on the radio is very sketchy at best.
country...@yahoo.com (Country Boy) wrote in message news:<6e4503ce.03110...@posting.google.com>...
mike2628
> No I haven't. She also had a number of misses during her RCA/BNA
> years. My Night to Howl peaked at #31. Heart Over Mind peaked at
> #39.
These two songs were from her "WarPaint" CD which was not promoted by BNA
because Joe Gallante wasn't in Nashville at the time. However, the CD was
still certified gold without a hit song. That says something about the
artist right there.
Standing Tall peaked at #32.
This song was considered way too country at the time and radio didn't
support it. However, Lorrie continues to sing this song and the fans love
it.
She was still signed to RCA until
> about a year ago, when she released her duet album (I Finally Found
> Someone) with Sammy Kershaw. Several singles were released (He Drinks
> Tequila, I Finally Found Someone), none reached the Top 30. This is
> while she was on a major label.
This CD wasn't promoted by RCA at all.
I'm a huge Lorrie fan can't you tell :-)
Country Boy
> >
> I'm a huge Lorrie fan can't you tell :-)
Yes I can, and congratulations to you. I'm not disputing her talent
or her abilities. And I even like this new single. All I'm saying is
don't blame her age or the fact that she's now on an independent
label.
WitchWayIsUp666
>I am 18 and a GUY and Reba has been my favorite artist since I was 4.<
Please. :) Nobody's buying itLOL!!!!!!!!!
Even Reba's BIGGEST fans will tell you she hasn't done ANYTHING worth hearing
in the last 14 years.
>I also buy Martina's CD's <
Case closed. See if you can stay off the computer and find a boyfriend. :)
WitchWayIsUp666
>No I haven't. She also had a number of misses during her RCA/BNA years.<
Please. She's STRIKINGLY beautiful, has a no-nonsence edge, and she's
perceived as a sultry seductress and home wrecker to boot. What chance does she
have of EVER charting again, as long as Country music fans are basically
two-legged elephants?
She's the anti-Christ to almost EVERY one of these overweight, divorced, SUV
driving soccer moms, that Country music depends on, and this ng is overrun
with! :)
It's a minor miracle she's even been able to chart? After Keith's death, when
she started dating Troy Aikman AND Senator Fred, her career on Country radio
and in Country music, was toast.
>My Night to Howl peaked at #31. <
Case closed. Have you ever heard this song?
>Heart Over Mind peaked at #39. <
I was never a huge fan of Lorrie, so this song doesn't ring a bell. However,
one of the biggest hits in Country Music history, was a song by the same title,
written by the legendary Mel Tillis. IF the Lorrie Morgan song, is a cover of
the same song, and barely cracked the "top 40", I REST MY CASE! :) This is a
HUGE song. Someone please let me know. Did Lorrie cover Mel's "Heart Over
Mind'?
>she released her duet album (I Finally FoundSomeone) with Sammy Kershaw.
Several singles were released (He Drinks
Tequila, I Finally Found Someone), none reached the Top 30.<
Surprise surprise huh Sgt Carter? :) Are you old enough to remember Gomer Pyle
U.S.M.C.?
I've posted about that CD SEVERAL times in the last year, and everyone around
here knows I don't rave about too much about what passes as Country music these
days. :)
However, of the three songs I've heard on that CD, two are among the
best/funniest songs I've heard in years, and the other is nothing but another
hit.
"He Drinks Tequila" has been talked about in here, since it came out, because
like Hank Williams Jr's "Big Top Women" and Tracy Byrd's "The Truth About Men",
it's one of the three best novelty songs released in probably a decade.
"I Finally Found Someone", is pretty good too, and memorable because it's
obviously autobiographical. Would it have been #1 or number #31, who knows. But
it would have, and should have at least charted, if released by ANYONE except
Lorrie Morgan.
Finally, "I Must Be Getting Older", which you probably haven't even heard,
might just be the strongest cut on the entire CD. I can still remember, EXACTLY
where I was, when I heard it for the first time. How many songs can YOU say
that about?
Keep in mind, that I've forgotten more about Country Music, not Country radio,
:) than you'll EVER know, and can probably tell Hank Williams' chauffer's shoe
size, :) and I think even YOU can appreciate how qualified I am to say how much
I like that song. :)
Will it or did it chart? Probably not, BUT for you to try to pawn off that age
had little to do with her not charting, is ABSURD.
In Lorrie Morgan's case, IT NEVER WAS ABOUT AGE!!!!!!!!!! Read and re-read that
about a million times, until it begins to sink in to that self-important
cranium of your's.
If Lorrie Morgan was as fat and ugly as 1) your personality, 2) yourself, 3)
your girlfriend, 4) your wife, or in your case your hand, :) 5) your father, 6)
your mother, or any other farm animal that had ANYTHING to do with your
conception, :) she'd STILL be charting today! :)
She's so BEAUTIFUL, you probably even resent her! :)
>But there are factors other than her age and the size of her label.<
How many times do I have to say it. IT has NOTHING to do with her age or her
label, IN HER CASE, it's that all the 250 lb soccer moms, hate her and always
will.
P.S. - While I think of it, I wasn't CRAZY about her early stuff, but thanks to
Kazaa, I was able to listen to a lot of her stuff and "Back In Your Arms Again"
is another GREAT song, that women like Patty Loveless, Trisha Fatwood & Wide
Nonna would have killed for, and who knows, maybe even would have GONE ON
DIETS!!!!!!!!!!! :)
Lorrie Morgan may never chart again, but she's putting out some of the best
female country music in a LONG, LONG time, and to these ears, she's better now
than she ever was, and actually appears to be getting better.
Keep up the GREAT work, Lorrie!!!!!!!!!!
Kevin C.
>in the last 14 years.
>
Three of her best albums - "For My Broken Heart," "Rumor Has It" and "What If
It's You" - were in the last 14 years. I still think "The Fear Of Being Alone"
is one of her best singles ever. I'd adjust it to the last five or six years.
I'm not even curious to hear her new CD.
________________
Kevin C.
"I ain't old, I'm just out of date." - Dwight Yoakam
Kevin C.
>HUGE song. Someone please let me know. Did Lorrie cover Mel's "Heart Over
>Mind'?
It's a different "Heart Over Mind." That, along with "My Night To Howl" and
"If You Came Back From Heaven," were from her WAR PAINT CD, which went gold but
suffered from BNA being in a power transition. The wrong singles were picked.
Lorrie had several hits after that, including the #1 "I Didn't Know My Own
Strength," plus "Go Away," "Good As I Was To You" and "Back In Your Arms
Again."
Mike Cox
some of Lorrie's "Purple People" to help me in here again.
Mike
"Kevin C." <lysi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031102165749...@mb-m22.aol.com...
Mike Cox
Lorrie's career. Granted her career isn't as hot as it was but who else's
is? Lorrie will always be beautiful even when she is 60.
"WitchWayIsUp666" <witchwa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031102153243...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Kevin C.
>
>Thank you Kevin for your support on this ng. Looks like I may have to get
>some of Lorrie's "Purple People" to help me in here again.
>
>Mike
first two country CD's I bought were "Put Yourself In My Place" by Pam Tillis
for "Maybe It Was Memphis," and Lorrie Morgan's "Something In Red" for "Except
For Monday" and the title track. I was in 7th grade at the time.
I'm still a big Lorrie Morgan fan, and I think what sunk her at radio in the
late 90's was just not having the right single at the right time. I still
don't understand why radio didn't play "You'd Think He'd Know Me Better," but
they ignored it when Bobbie Cryner released it two years before Lorrie as well.
I think Lorrie, along with most of the 90's women - Chapin, Tillis, Yearwood,
Bogguss, Mattea, Loveless - is just one big hit away from a comeback. They're
all putting out great music. They just need the right song as a comeback
vehicle. God knows if they find it, country radio will be more fun to listen
to again.
Shawn Lockerson
Myself Into Corners, but that was ignored on radio.
Shawn
Shawn Lockerson
Shawn
~^Johnny^~
>It's a different "Heart Over Mind."
The best "Heart Over Mind"
is sung by Karen Kamon. :-)
It too is a different number... simply excellent;
and never mind that it isn't country!
--
-john
~~~~~~
"Smith did such an impressive job you expected Twain
to give her the hook at any moment"
-Larry Pynn, Vancouver Sun.
http://www.bobbi-smith.com/
~~~~~~