Bad Tunes???
Jpjm206
before, most of them very interesting, or at least, neat. I got to thinking, I
must confess that I occassionaly run across a tune that I really don't like.
Now I know that this largely depends on how a tune is played....there are tunes
I despised until I heard a great performance. Other tunes are so bad they
transcend good playing.
The thing is, I rarely hear someone say, "Man, I can't stand that tune!"
Surely in a group as opinionated as this there must be some negative reviews. I
have a friend that plays Irish music that won't start a tune he doesn't like,
although out of jamming etiquette, he'll play along on anything.
Surely, everyone can't like everything. Unless is its PC, of course.
A couple tunes that I don't like are:
Snowbird on the Ashbank
Sadie at the Backdoor.
Anybody care to add??
John Mahony
Julie Mangin
> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
> Snowbird on the Ashbank
> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
> Anybody care to add??
Waiting For Nancy
Spotted Pony
Julie Mangin
--------------
I'm not Nancy Mamlin, but I play her on the Internet.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bob Culver
> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
> Snowbird on the Ashbank
> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
> Anybody care to add??
>
For years I fought against Sally Goodin. I know, I know, I know... How can i call
myself an old-time music fan? I hated it ... in all genres... bluegrass,
texas-style, old-time. I played it because I had to. (try telling a texas-styler
you don't like sally goodin, you'll end up with tenor guitar enema)
Then one day, I'm sittin at weiser ID, drinkin a beer and listening to the
umpteenth version, when it hit me. It was like the dude at the end of "1984."
He's lived a lifetime of oppression and torture at the hands of Big Brother. Then,
at the end he has a bizarre realization ... he loves Big Brother. Same thing for
me and Sally Goodin. I can no longer resist. As Big Brother would say, Sally
Goodin is doubleplusgood.
Now I hate Sailor's Hornpipe and Snowshoes. Doubleplusungood.
bobc
Nancy Mamlin
"Julie Mangin" <julie...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8n7aec$qam$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > A couple tunes that I don't like are:
> >
> > Snowbird on the Ashbank
> > Sadie at the Backdoor.
> >
> > Anybody care to add??
>
>
> Spotted Pony
>
> Julie Mangin
> --------------
> I'm not Nancy Mamlin, but I play her on the Internet.
And the reason that Julie and I are confused for each other is that we agree
on many things. Upon reading the first post in the thread, I was going to
answer:
Waiting for Nancy
Nancy Mamlin (who tends to wait on others)
Library Guy
John Mahoney wrote:
>> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>> Snowbird on the Ashbank
>> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>>
>> Anybody care to add??
>
>Waiting For Nancy
>Spotted Pony
>
>Julie Mangin
"Nail, nail, naaaaaaail..."
Shudder.
Joel Shimberg
>
>Snowbird on the Ashbank
>Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
>Anybody care to add??
>
Boil Them Cabbidge Down
Joel
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Edward Baggott
: A couple tunes that I don't like are:
: Snowbird on the Ashbank
: Sadie at the Backdoor.
: Anybody care to add??
: John Mahony
One of my most pleasant memories of Clifftop this year was not
hearing "Benton's Dream" a single time.
With an admission like that, I might as well just paint a big red 'X'
on my back and carry around a sign saying "aim here" ...
Yrs,
Ed
Adam Rose and Yona Adams
>hearing "Benton's Dream" a single time.
Boy, you must have missed Beverly's birthday party. It was rendered there,
complete with the operatic vocal stylings of Rafe and John H. Took me back to
the horse stalls at Galax.
Adam Rose.
Cleoma
many painful dumbed-down beginner versions), til I heard the Benton Flippen
version (which is on his Rounder album). Now I LOVE it! Check it out, Joel,
it might just change your mind.
Suzy T.
To reply to this posting, remove "nojunk" from my email address.
Kerry Blech
>
> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
> Snowbird on the Ashbank
> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
> Anybody care to add??
North Carolina Breakdown (unless is is
played just like Arthur Smith played it).
That's about it.
Kerry
--
Blec...@WolfeNet.com
"When you get above the clouds, you can do just as you choose."
- The Rector Trio, Asheville, NC 1930
Kerry Blech
> Spotted Pony
I bet you never got to hear Foncy Kennermur
(sp?) play his version, which he called
"Snowshoe" (I've heard that melody called
Snowshoe much more often than Spotted Pony,
for what it's worth.
Kerry
PS,
Julie, it was so great to finally meet you!
The next step, I think, is to actually try
and play some tunes together. I did get pretty
confused, though, when you and Nancy Mamlin
were standing right next to each other.
Bob Borcherding
dal...@vet.upenn.edu wrote on 8/14/00 7:45 AM:
>> Spotted Pony
>>
Hopefully not to be confused with the excellent Missouri tune, Spotted Pony,
played by Cyril Stinnett tune. (Not the one in the old time fiddler's
repertory). That's a great tune.
Bob Borcherding, St. Louis, MO.
gap...@swbell.net
Duc de Savoie
gave me a new look at the tune and added a B part.
I suppose that no "bad" tunes last long enough to be old, but uninspired
settings can make them unappetizing until someone like Benton comes along and
demonstrates what can be done with them.
Bud
Kerry Blech
>
> Joel doesn't like Boil them Cabbage Down. I didn't used to like it either (too
> many painful dumbed-down beginner versions), til I heard the Benton Flippen
> version (which is on his Rounder album). Now I LOVE it! Check it out, Joel,
> it might just change your mind.
> Suzy T.
And I love Lowe Stokes' version, that he called
"Somebody's Rockin' My Sugar Lump"
Kerry
Kerry Blech
It made me shudder, and not quite with delight. I agree with Gail,
it should be Benton's vision. At one time I did work out a version
on single-row diatonic accordion.... but that's another story,
and probably not as "good" as Paul Rangell's Cajun accordion
setting for "Orange Blossom Special."
Given this thread's theme, it's probably a good idea
I didn't play "Calliope" at Clifftop. Y'all might have
more ammunition.
Cheers,
Nancy Mamlin
Is Arthur Smith the source for NC Breakdown? The question arose and went
unanswered at Augusta last week. I couldn't even find anyone at my house who
knew...
Nancy Mamlin, sleep-deprived but back at work
Kerry Blech <Blec...@Wolfenet.com> wrote in message
news:3998243B...@Wolfenet.com...
> Jpjm206 wrote:
> >
> > A couple tunes that I don't like are:
> >
> > Snowbird on the Ashbank
> > Sadie at the Backdoor.
> >
> > Anybody care to add??
>
> North Carolina Breakdown (unless is is
> played just like Arthur Smith played it).
>
> That's about it.
Gail Gillespie
>
> Jpjm206 <jpj...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> : A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
> : Snowbird on the Ashbank
> : Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
> : Anybody care to add??
>
>
> One of my most pleasant memories of Clifftop this year was not
> hearing "Benton's Dream" a single time.
>
entirely!
Library Guy
>Is Arthur Smith the source for NC Breakdown? The question arose and went
>unanswered at Augusta last week. I couldn't even find anyone at my house who
>knew...
Yes. I have wondered about this, and have heard Arthur Smith cited as
the source. But I had never heard a recording of him playing it.
Then at C-top, I did some LP trading with Peter Fraissinet, and copped
an old (1962, I think) Starday LP of Arthur and his son (Earnest?).
Said LP includes "North Carolina Breakdown". Arthur was 64 at the
time, and the playing is not the same as that on the old 78s. Still
in all, I'm tickled to finally have the apparent source for the tune
in question.
Frank Dalton
Wes Steenson
>
>: A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
>: Snowbird on the Ashbank
>: Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
>: Anybody care to add??
>
>: John Mahony
Greetings:
How about Walk Chalk Chicken with or without a necktie on? =:-)
Sorry, JM I just coudn't resist!
Wes Steenson
stee...@aol.com
"But hey, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." Dennis Miller
Carl Baron
Wes Steenson wrote:
> Greetings:
> How about Walk Chalk Chicken with or without a necktie on? =:-)
> Sorry, JM I just coudn't resist!
Gee, I like that tune.
Carl
Wes Steenson
Hi, CB:
No slight against the tune intended, I'm just teasing Mahoney a little. Just
about every time he shows up at the Wisdom's, and we happen to be in the key
WCC is in, he's been playing that tune for us, to try to get anyone else to
learn it. Which, of course make him the target of much sarcasm & cruel jokes.
One has to admire his tenacity, however. It's a tough job, but somebody's got
to do it! =:-)
Jpjm206
>> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>>
>> Snowbird on the Ashbank
>> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>>
>> Anybody care to add??
>
>
>Spotted Pony
Well, I've heard some miserable renditions of Waiting for Nancy, but I must say
I stumbled on an acceptable way to play it. One night while jamming with Steve
Senderoff in my house, we were playing Too Young to Marry (Judy Hyman/Bob
Carlin version) and we went into Waiting for Nancy with the same feel. It
worked very well and used it as medley in the Rorschach County Ramblers. We
called it our Tonya Harding medley.
On the issue of Spotted Pony, I know others that find it, oh, I don't know,
..hokey?? My objection was the straight ascending line in the A part. So I
changed it a little and now I enjoy it quite a bit, even if it is a little
notey.
John
Jpjm206
>>
>>: Snowbird on the Ashbank
>>: Sadie at the Backdoor.
>>
>>: Anybody care to add??
>>
>>: John Mahony
>
>Greetings:
>How about Walk Chalk Chicken with or without a necktie on? =:-)
>Sorry, JM I just coudn't resist!
>
>
>Wes Steenson
>stee...@aol.com
Yo, Wes!!! Get a grip, man....everybody know WCC is the best tune..period....in
fact it's one of the high points of western civilization (well, maybe West-ern
Virginia civilization)!
John
Jpjm206
>before, most of them very interesting, or at least, neat. I got to thinking,
>I
>must confess that I occassionaly run across a tune that I really don't like.
>Now I know that this largely depends on how a tune is played....there are
>tunes
>I despised until I heard a great performance. Other tunes are so bad they
>transcend good playing.
>The thing is, I rarely hear someone say, "Man, I can't stand that tune!"
>Surely in a group as opinionated as this there must be some negative reviews.
>I
>have a friend that plays Irish music that won't start a tune he doesn't like,
>although out of jamming etiquette, he'll play along on anything.
>Surely, everyone can't like everything. Unless is its PC, of course.
>
>
>Snowbird on the Ashbank
>Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
>Anybody care to add??
>
>John Mahony
>
Well, I'm seeing 2 minor trends here. The first is against contemporary or
written tunes ( Sadie at the Backdoor (?), Waiting for Nancy, Nail that Catfish
to the Tree) and second, tunes that have been beat to death and then some.
I believe that contemporary (written) tunes can sometimes sound contrived, that
is unnatural in an effort to be "original". However, there are some great
original tunes that sound much more traditional....Pete Sutherland has a few.
BTW, another tune I don't like happens to be a contemporary tune....Boys, Them
Buzzards are Flying.
John Mahony
Wes Steenson
>tune..period....in
>fact it's one of the high points of western civilization (well, maybe
>West-ern
>Virginia civilization)!
>
>John
Greetings:
Yeah, if you call that civliz.... no, it's just too easy.
Steve Goldfield
Jpjm206 <jpj...@aol.com> wrote:
#>
#>>> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
#>>>
#>>> Snowbird on the Ashbank
#>>> Sadie at the Backdoor.
#>>>
#>>> Anybody care to add??
#>>
#>>
#>>Waiting For Nancy
#>>Spotted Pony
#>
#>Well, I've heard some miserable renditions of Waiting for Nancy, but I must say
#>I stumbled on an acceptable way to play it. One night while jamming with Steve
#>Senderoff in my house, we were playing Too Young to Marry (Judy Hyman/Bob
#>Carlin version) and we went into Waiting for Nancy with the same feel. It
#>worked very well and used it as medley in the Rorschach County Ramblers. We
#>called it our Tonya Harding medley.
#>On the issue of Spotted Pony, I know others that find it, oh, I don't know,
#>..hokey?? My objection was the straight ascending line in the A part. So I
#>changed it a little and now I enjoy it quite a bit, even if it is a little
#>notey.
#>
#>John
Just remember that "Waiting for Nancy" (and also "Nixon's Farewell" by the
same author, Curt Bouterse of San Diego) was written as a fretless banjo
tune in C. It sounds fine on banjo. I know fiddlers who think it
sounds shrill in D, but it isn't a fiddle tune. It's a banjo tune,
so you have to judge it in those terms. The original version is
in *Nixon's Farewell and nine other tunes for clawhammer banjo*
by Bouterse. That isn't really a book; it's a small mimeographed
(anybody remember what that is) booklet. I am told (recently at
Sweet's Mill) that Curtis Bouterse is still playing music but
isn't playing much old-time. I gather he is now into Early
Music (roots of classical). In the book, he says that he was
waiting for Nancy in a restaurant in San Diego. She was late
or didn't make it (I've forgotten which) because her car
broke down. "Nixon's Farewell" was written in 1973 about a
week after the subject resigned. It helped get me through the
funeral along with Phil Ochs' "Richard Nixon Find Yourself
Another Country to Be Part of," which was played over and
over on the Pacifica network. I couldn't stop humming
"Nixon's Farewell" that whole week ("I'm so glad that
Nixon's gone. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.")
As to Spotted Pony, if you don't like the ascending line (I assume
you mean at the beginning), does that mean that you don't like
"Goodbye, Liza Jane," which begins in almost the same way?
Another tune that starts in a similar way is "Sweeping the
Town/The Good One." I like all these tunes, but I would
continue to maintain that it is the setting that counts.
I've played tunes I really like with fiddlers who IMHO didn't
play them very well. By the way, I suspect that Bob Herring
would agree with me about his setting for "Sandy Boys." Bob
is certainly a great musician and a fine fiddler so my earlier
comment was not intended as a snipe at him. He was just unlucky
enough to be the source of the setting which caught on and
spread around the country.
Steve
(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>
-------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Goldfield <stev...@best.com> * Oakland, California
* Home Page--<http://www.best.com/~stevesag/stevesag.html> *
"Let us bray," said the mule to the donkey.
John Garst
(Jpjm206) wrote:
>...
> A couple tunes that I don't like are:
>
> Snowbird on the Ashbank
> Sadie at the Backdoor.
>
> Anybody care to add??
Some tunes may be inherently good, but no tune is so bad that a master
can't make a good performance out of it. For vocalists, those are the
tunes that set Louis Armstrong, Willie Nelson, Mahalia Jackson, Dock
Boggs, Billie Holiday, etc., apart from most of the rest. I have no doubt
that an analogous statement can be made for instrumentalist performances,
though I am less certain who to list.
Nancy Mamlin
"> Well, I've heard some miserable renditions of Waiting for Nancy, but I
must say
> I stumbled on an acceptable way to play it. One night while jamming with
Steve
> Senderoff in my house, we were playing Too Young to Marry (Judy Hyman/Bob
> Carlin version) and we went into Waiting for Nancy with the same feel. It
> worked very well and used it as medley in the Rorschach County Ramblers.
Well, I'm sure glad you didn't play at my wedding!
Nancy Mamlin
Robert Palasek
rec.music.folk)
This is a bit far from old-time, but since someone mentioned
Phil Ochs and we have been talking about bad tunes--
Phil Ochs is remembered for the protest songs he wrote during the
times of "the movement." But I cannot recall, decades
since then, _ever having come away from a Phil Ochs song
feeling better about the world, or feeling better about
myself.
"The blues is a good man feeling bad," Son House once
explained to us at a small workshop. Since then, I have figured
out that underneath the blues are subtexts of hope and of
love and of faith. And often the music works through
to where by the end there is some release.
I feel that Ochs's not having any songs where we could
smile by their end was an indicator of the tragic trait
that led to his suicide.
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with any protest
song, but we all need some real music, too.
Bob
= == === ===== ======== ============= =====================
G. M. Watson
about the world", or to make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Their
purpose was to let the listener know that an injustice had been committed,
in the hope that said listener would then work to be part of the solution
rather than part of the problem. Whether that work would make the listener
feel better about him/herself was up to the listener. Phil wasn't trying to
lull you into a hedonistic or soporific state, like most pop singers do. He
wanted you to get pissed off enough to join those working for societal or
systemic change. Sometimes that struggle has a happy ending, and sometimes
not. The point was the necessity of engaging in the struggle itself and the
rejection of apathy.
The message today remains the same, and it doesn't matter whether it comes
from Phil Ochs or Public Enemy or Utah Phillips or Rage Against the Machine:
Drop your complacency and your passivity, get off your ass and DO something,
whether it's as simple as registering to vote or as challenging as starting
an inner-city food bank. It ain't a comfortable message and never has been,
but there it is. If that's not "real music" enough for you, too bad. Like I
say, not all stories-- and not all songs-- have happy endings.
----------
In article <399EE676...@home.com>, Robert Palasek
Stephen Suffet
>
>
> I feel that Ochs's not having any songs where we could
> smile by their end was an indicator of the tragic trait
> that led to his suicide.
>
Greetings:
I guess Robert never heard "The Power and the Glory" or "What's
That I Hear Now," both "protest" songs but very positive and upbeat. I
guess he also never heard "The Pleasures of the Harbor," not a protest
or a political song at all, but a tender and almost innocent story of
a sailor's visit to a whorehouse,
Yes, there certainly was a macabre side to almost all of Ochs'
music, and we can hear hear it in the nasty humor of "Draft Dodger
Rag" and "Small Circle of Friends," the chilling imagery of "The
Crucifixion," and the literally suicidal nihilism of "No More Songs."
Phil gave us a hint of the demons he was fighting in "When I'm Gone,"
"Cross My Heart and Hope to Live," and "Chords of Fame." But perhaps
it was those very demons that inspired him to write "The Confession,"
a masterpiece Phil wrote and recorded in the 1960s, but which Elektra
did not release until 1997! Just think of the opening lines:
There is nothing as cold as the freeze in your sould,
At the moment that you are arrested...
Sheer brilliance! But could Phil have done so well had he not be
so open to seduction by the Dark Side of the Force?
--- Steve
Stephen Suffet
>
> But perhaps it was those very demons that inspired him to write "The
> 1960s, but which Elektra did not release until 1997! Just think of
> the opening lines:
>
> There is nothing as cold as the freeze in your sould,
> At the moment that you are arrested...
>
Whoops! Please forgive the typo. Of course what I meant to write
was:
There is nothing as cold as the freeze in your soul,
At the moment that you are arrested...
--- Steve
jga...@bestweb.net
The ones mentioned slipped into the repertoires precisely
because folks didn't realize that they were composed. After
we find that to be the case, boy are our faces red. But why
are we so prejudiced? A good tune is a good tune...or is it?
Also: Just wondering how many of those old tunes from 1920s
or so are actually composed by those contemporaries. I am
sure that folks did some tune writing back then. Anybody
have any clues?
David Lynch
> Interesting that our "tradition" scorns contemporary tunes.
> The ones mentioned slipped into the repertoires precisely
> because folks didn't realize that they were composed. After
> we find that to be the case, boy are our faces red. But why
> are we so prejudiced? A good tune is a good tune...or is it?
As far as I'm concerned, a good tune is a good tune. However, there are
many contemporary compositions I don't care for, not because they're
old or new, but because I simply don't like them.
However, I have some exceptions: Luther/The Last Straw - Mark Simos;
Road to Westfield - Garry Harrison (as a matter of fact, I like lots of
the tune Garry writes). And despite my previous hoo-ha about Ken Burns'
Civil War "documentary" not using period music (which still bugs me), I
will play Ashokan Farewell again, because it's a sweet tune and also
because it's no longer played (overplayed) as often as it was (I had to
quit playing it for a time when it started feeling to me like the
"Stairway to Heaven" of the traditional music world.)
Having said that, I think there is a flavor to the body of tunes
written 150+ years ago that I don't think modern musicians can
duplicate. Musicians in early America heard completely different
environmental sounds. They were surrounded by the sounds of acoustic
music and nature, rather than the sounds of rock bands or capuccino
machines (in my case). I think all the modern sounds we've heard since
we were born affect our perception of sound and music much differently
than had we heard the set of sounds people commonly heard in 1750. I
think the differences in auditory influence prevent us from perfectly
mimicking the music of the past. There's some mightly fine emulation,
though!
Jpjm206
I agree 103%, David. A couple other good contemporary tunes (IMHO) that I play
are Oiling Up Julianne (Tara Nevins) and Around the Horn (Jay Unger).
Hopefully, good contemporary music can enjoy similar popularity as good
traditional music.
John
Kerry Blech
the Caller" (works pretty well in AEAE,
though Hank plays it in standard), but only
for contra dances.
Kerry
--
Edward Baggott
and unpredictable (and extremely satisfying to play), but
this one is so smooth and flowing that it just begs to be
played for contras.
:)
Ed
Kerry Blech <Blec...@wolfenet.com> wrote:
: Y'all should learn Hank Bradley's "Hassle
: the Caller" (works pretty well in AEAE,
: though Hank plays it in standard), but only
: for contra dances.
: Kerry
: --
jga...@bestweb.net
that were intentionally composed in the early days but
became part of the repertoire. I know there are a few of the
Tin Pan Alley style tunes adapted for old time style.
Carl Baron
jga...@bestweb.net wrote:
Off the top of my head, 'Jump Jim Crow' from Melvin Wine. There is sheet
music for this. It was composed before the Civil War. Melvin's version
bears some resemblance to the original sheet music. A copy of the sheet
music, with words (1829) can be found at:
http://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/
under the title "Jim Crow. The Celebrated N......Song" as sung by Mr. T.
Rice. There are different published copies of this music, one of which
is located in book at the Van Pelt Library of the University of
Pennsylvania; it has a very different front cover.
Title: Series of old American songs : reproduced in facsimile from
original or early editions in the Harris collection of American poetry
and plays, Brown
University / With brief annotations by S. Foster Damon,
curator.
Publisher: Providence, R. I. : Brown University Library, 1936.
Call Number: M1629.B76 S4 1936
I believe that this book can be obtained by inter-library loan.
Also, I just found at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/dukesmquery.html
that there is sheet music for "Jump, Jim Crow", music by Sigmund Romberg
and words by Rida Johnson Young (1917). I just found this and haven't
played to see if it resembles Melvin's tune.
Carl
Steve Goldfield
Edward Baggott <eaba...@HiWAAY.net> wrote:
#>I agree. So many of Hank's tunes seem to be very quirky
#>and unpredictable (and extremely satisfying to play), but
#>this one is so smooth and flowing that it just begs to be
#>played for contras.
#>
#>:)
#>
#>Ed
#>
#>
#>Kerry Blech <Blec...@wolfenet.com> wrote:
#>: Y'all should learn Hank Bradley's "Hassle
#>: the Caller" (works pretty well in AEAE,
#>: though Hank plays it in standard), but only
#>: for contra dances.
#>: Kerry
And for dancers with five legs.
Steve Goldfield
#>One of my sub-questions was whether anyone is aware of tunes
#>that were intentionally composed in the early days but
#>became part of the repertoire. I know there are a few of the
#>Tin Pan Alley style tunes adapted for old time style.
A good example is "Tater Patch," which was written by
a friend of Charlie Lowe's. Tommy and Fred learned it
from Charlie and spread it around some. I'm sure there
are lots of others. It seems fairly certain that Fiddlin'
Arthur Smith wrote "North Carolina Breakdown." As I recall,
the author (somebody else will no doubt supply his name)
had the complete tune pop into his head one day.
What becomes more difficult is whether you consider settings
that depart fairly far from the original tune as new
compositions. There are certainly a lot of those, too.
As to the Tin Pan Alley tunes, my favorite is "Liza Jane,"
which was written (if I remember it right) by an Austrian lady in
the latter part of the 19th century with essentially the
same melody (as one version of "Liza Jane") that is
played today and the same words that are sung today.
I've seen the sheet music for that one.
Steve Goldfield
Steve Goldfield <stev...@best.com> wrote:
>In article <39A298E4...@bestweb.net>, <jga...@bestweb.net> wrote:
>#>One of my sub-questions was whether anyone is aware of tunes
>#>that were intentionally composed in the early days but
>#>became part of the repertoire. I know there are a few of the
>#>Tin Pan Alley style tunes adapted for old time style.
Whoops. The last two sentences in the next paragraph are
in the wrong order.
Steve
Carl Baron
Steve Goldfield wrote:
> As to the Tin Pan Alley tunes, my favorite is "Liza Jane,"
> which was written (if I remember it right) by an Austrian lady in
> the latter part of the 19th century with essentially the
> same melody (as one version of "Liza Jane") that is
> played today and the same words that are sung today.
> I've seen the sheet music for that one.
If you mean "Li'l Liza Jane" (I'se got a gal an' you got none........);sheet
music at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/ncdhtml/hasmhome.html
It was composed by Countess Ada De Lachau in 1916. Then there's "Good bye
Liza Jane" (The time has come and I must go......) by Eddie Fox (1871); sheet
music at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/smhtml/smhome.html
(you'll have to check out the new Hobo Pie CD for a recorded version of this,
probably the only recorded version to date). Also, there's "Good Bye Eliza
Jane" (Look a-here Liza, listen to me.......) by Andrew Sterling and Harry
von Tilzer (1903); sheet music at:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/ncdhtml/hasmhome.html
and "Liza Jane" (Clyde Davenport) known by many of us as "Liza Poor Gal".
OK people, give some more. There should be enough for a whole album of Liza
Jane tunes and songs.
Carl
David Lynch
> One of my sub-questions was whether anyone is aware of tunes
> that were intentionally composed in the early days but
> became part of the repertoire.
I think I read somewhere that Henry Reed's "Over the Waterfall" was his
adaptation of a tune he heard played on a circus calliope!
Blech Family (Kerry & Sheila)
Kerry
--
"Edward Baggott" <eaba...@HiWAAY.net> wrote in message
news:sq557p2...@corp.supernews.com...
> I agree. So many of Hank's tunes seem to be very quirky
Joe Kesselman
you feel better about the world. The whole protest-song genre -- which
probably goes back as far as singing does -- exists to discuss what can
be done to _make_ the world better.
If you protest songs aren't your cup of tea, that's fine; de gustibus
non disputandum est. But they're no less real music than greek tragedy
is less real literature. Life isn't all easy to look at. There's no
reason to expect it all to be easy to listen to either.
--
------------------------------------------------------
Joe Kesselman, http://www.lovesong.com/people/keshlam/
The Walkabout Clearwater Coffeehouse is on summer break
but you can check out next year's schedule at
http://www.WalkaboutClearwater.org
tallu...@my-deja.com
jga...@bestweb.net wrote:
> Interesting that our "tradition" scorns contemporary tunes.
> The ones mentioned slipped into the repertoires precisely
> because folks didn't realize that they were composed. After
> we find that to be the case, boy are our faces red. But why
Sure it is. Look, it's simple: Chad Crumm's "Last of Reedy" kicks
butt; "Waiting for Nancy" is a weenie tune. "Boys Them Buzzards Are
Flying" has dynamic range; "Sadie at the Back Door" is so cute it makes
me want to gag.
As for traditional tunes, if I never hear "Over the Waterfall" again, it
will be too soon.
TB
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
David Lynch
wrote:
> As for traditional tunes, if I never hear "Over the Waterfall" again, it
> will be too soon.
I never said it was good - I just mentioned where it came from. Where
it should go is another matter. ; )
Kerry Blech
>
> As for traditional tunes, if I never hear "Over the Waterfall" again, it
> will be too soon.
Have you ever heard Henry Reed play it? It still sounds fresh, to me, in
his
(now digitized for posterity) hands.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/hrhtml/afcreedTitles2.html#top
Kerry Blech
> > will be too soon.
>
> it should go is another matter. ; )
Well, David.... I've been playing it lots of late. Not particularly
in a wimpy form, either. I'll make you play it with me next time
we congregate (between us, even when only two folks, it definitely
is a congregation...), holding the Chocolate-covered Espresso
beans hostage.
Finley Evans
music wanting you to play dueling banjos? Seems that's the only thing
they know,but in the meantime they're so drunk they don't hear it anyhow
when you DO play it. Or another one is Rockytop.I got sick of playing
them a long time ago too.I'm not saying they're bad songs,but you'll
even get tired of ice cream if it's served to you everyday!!!
Finmeister
Nigel Gatherer
> ...I had to quit playing {"Ashokan Farewell"] it for a time when it
> started feeling to me like the "Stairway to Heaven" of the traditional
> music world...
That gave me the bast laugh of the day, David! Thanks.
--
Nigel Gatherer, Crieff
mailto:gath...@argonet.co.uk
Nancy Mamlin
"David Lynch" <dly...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:220820001830530671%dly...@mindspring.com...
At Augusta this year, Allan Jabbour said that this wasn't true. I *think* he
said it was an adaptation of a tune he heard from a traveling minstrel show.
Perhaps someone else who was at the lecture has a better memory than I about
that, but I know he debunked the calliope myth.
Nancy Mamlin
Jack Aldrich
Steel Guitar Rag, and Melancholy Baby to name a few. One of the
blessings of old time music is that the industry boys don't know what to
do with it, so they, by & large, ignore it. Come over from the Dark
Side & start frailing, & you won't have the problem.
Nancy Mamlin
Nancy
<jga...@bestweb.net> wrote in message news:39A47CAF...@bestweb.net...
> Here's what he writes on the Henry Reed site:
>
> NOTES
> Henry Reed distinctly calls this "Over the Waterfalls" on
> microphone on another occasion (AFS 13703b08), but he
> used the singular here, and that is how the fieldnotes from
> both of his performances record it. He said he learned it
> when he was a young boy from performers in a traveling show,
> Teets's Show (probably a circus or medicine show).
jga...@bestweb.net
David Lynch
<Blec...@Wolfenet.com> wrote:
> David Lynch wrote:
> >
> > In article <8nv4bo$pu4$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <tallu...@my-deja.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As for traditional tunes, if I never hear "Over the Waterfall" again, it
> > > will be too soon.
> >
> > I never said it was good - I just mentioned where it came from. Where
> > it should go is another matter. ; )
>
> Well, David.... I've been playing it lots of late.
What is the world coming to? ; )
tallu...@my-deja.com
Jack Aldrich <john.w....@boeing.com> wrote:
> Come over from the Dark
> Side & start frailing, & you won't have the problem.
I dunno...I'm getting mighty tired of people asking for "Waiting for
Nancy."
jga...@bestweb.net
of. Sometimes even a slight rhythmic variation can breathe
new life into old warhorses. Worth trying, I suppose.
I did notice that Henry Reed puts a slightly different
phrasing in those first few notes of OTW than I am
accustomed to hear. I'll have to go back and *really* listen.
Kerry Blech
>
> > >
> > > > As for traditional tunes, if I never hear "Over the Waterfall" again, it
> > > > will be too soon.
> > >
> > > I never said it was good - I just mentioned where it came from. Where
> > > it should go is another matter. ; )
> >
> > Well, David.... I've been playing it lots of late.
>
> What is the world coming to? ; )
Could it be a sign of "the end of Days?" Maybe we should
all sing "Sweet Adeline" and go home....?"
Kerry Blech
>
> In article <39A460B4...@boeing.com>,
> Jack Aldrich <john.w....@boeing.com> wrote:
> > Come over from the Dark
> > Side & start frailing, & you won't have the problem.
>
> I dunno...I'm getting mighty tired of people asking for "Waiting for
> Nancy."
Hee hee... Maybe you should insist that they sing it
first before you play it on request...
Nancy Mamlin
"Jack Aldrich" <john.w....@boeing.com> wrote in message
news:39A460B4...@boeing.com...
> That's the problem with cliche'-type tunes - Orange Blossom Special,
> Steel Guitar Rag, and Melancholy Baby to name a few. One of the
> blessings of old time music is that the industry boys don't know what to
> Side & start frailing, & you won't have the problem.
>
Yeah you will-- I've been asked for Rocky Top and Orange Blossom Special
plenty of times. One time a fiddler I was playing with was asked if he was
going to play bluegrass music (this was while we were still setting up) and
he said "No, what we play is older than bluegrass." She said, "I didn't
think _anything_ was older than bluegrass!" Funny thing was that this was at
a nursing home convention-- pretty much everyone there was older than
bluegrass!
Nancy Mamlin
Steve Goldfield
Nancy Mamlin <maml...@appstate.edu> wrote:
#>
#>"David Lynch" <dly...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
#>news:220820001830530671%dly...@mindspring.com...
#>> In article <39A298E4...@bestweb.net>, <jga...@bestweb.net> wrote:
#>>
#>> > One of my sub-questions was whether anyone is aware of tunes
#>> > that were intentionally composed in the early days but
#>> > became part of the repertoire.
#>>
#>> I think I read somewhere that Henry Reed's "Over the Waterfall" was his
#>> adaptation of a tune he heard played on a circus calliope!
#>
#>At Augusta this year, Allan Jabbour said that this wasn't true. I *think* he
#>said it was an adaptation of a tune he heard from a traveling minstrel show.
#>Perhaps someone else who was at the lecture has a better memory than I about
#>that, but I know he debunked the calliope myth.
#>
#>Nancy Mamlin
I have tapes of three workshops Allan gave on Henry Reed
at Fiddle Tunes. I'm about 90 percent certain that I heard
the calliope story from Allan there. I don't know when I'll
have a chance to listen to them again, but if I do, I'll
listen for that. Actually, I think calliope is the wrong
name for what Reed is supposed to have heard, but it's
the same sort of device.
Ralph Barthine
> Actually, I think calliope is the wrong name for what Reed is supposed
> to have heard, but it's the same sort of device.
Maybe a pump organ?
Just a wild guess,
rb
Joel Shimberg
Waterfall is the melody of the song, The Fellow That looks Like Me. This
song can be found in Carrie Grover's Book of songs and ballads from Maine,
and in a fine collection of folksongs from Utah -- I think that the author
was Lester Hubbell. Anyway, the tune's there, although the verse goes to
what is usually played as the second part of the tune.
In article <8o3gfv$262n$1...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, stev...@best.com (Steve
Goldfield) wrote:
>listen for that. Actually, I think calliope is the wrong
>name for what Reed is supposed to have heard, but it's
>the same sort of device.
>
>Steve
>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>(8<})>
>-------------------------------------------------------------
> Steve Goldfield <stev...@best.com> * Oakland, California
>* Home Page--<http://www.best.com/~stevesag/stevesag.html> *
> "Let us bray," said the mule to the donkey.
--
Insanity is hereditary.
You get it from your kids.
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Joel Shimberg
shim...@email.com (Joel Shimberg) wrote:
>I don't know about the calliope story, but I do know that Over The
>Waterfall is the melody of the song, The Fellow That looks Like Me. This
>song can be found in Carrie Grover's Book of songs and ballads from Maine,
>and in a fine collection of folksongs from Utah -- I think that the author
>was Lester Hubbell.
Lester Hubbard. Great book!
Kerry Blech
Joel Shimberg wrote:
>
> I don't know about the calliope story, but I do know that Over The
> Waterfall is the melody of the song, The Fellow That looks Like Me. This
> song can be found in Carrie Grover's Book of songs and ballads from Maine,
> and in a fine collection of folksongs from Utah -- I think that the author
> was Lester Hubbell. Anyway, the tune's there, although the verse goes to
> what is usually played as the second part of the tune.
>
And it was recorded commercially in the 1920/30s by Asa Martin, Charlie
Newman, Al Hopkins and the Hill Billies/Buckle Busters, and
who knows who else.
I love the lyrics. One of the best renditions I've heard
of it, in relatively recent times, was done by Greg and Jere
Canote, who happen to be identical twins.
Best,
Nigel Gatherer
Michael Hurley?