Great Lakes/Michigan songs or tunes
Cleoma
mention Michigan, or the Lakes, or cities along the lakes? I realize that this
is pretty far north for this newsgroup, but thought someone might have
suggestions.
Thanks,
Suzy T.
To reply to this posting, remove "nojunk" from my email address. Visit Suzy on
the web: http://www.bluegrassintentions.com/suzy.htm
Joel Shimberg
>Any suggestions for tunes from the Great Lakes area, or oldtime songs that
>mention Michigan, or the Lakes, or cities along the lakes?
Susie, L-62 has some cuts from Patrick Bonner, who was an Irish
fiddler from a Lake Michigan (I do believe) island, 'way up north. If
you don't restrict "oldtime' to string band songs (and them from south
of the Ohio River) you might do well to look into songs from the
lumberwoods -- there's lots of collections. Check out Bayard for tunes
from Erie. PA, fiddlers -- there might be some, but I don't know it.
Paul Gifford would be a particularly good person to ask directly,
given his interest in Michigan and Western NY musics. What about Mary
O. Eddy's collection of songs and ballads from Ohio?
Joel
THIS@cox.net Bill in Alexandria
Fitzgerald"--is 1976 old-timey enough for you?
"Cleoma" <cle...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20041204201747...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Lyle Lofgren
> Any suggestions for tunes from the Great Lakes area, or oldtime songs that
> mention Michigan, or the Lakes, or cities along the lakes? I realize that this
> is pretty far north for this newsgroup, but thought someone might have
> suggestions.
> Thanks,
> Suzy T.
Hi, Suzy,
Chirps Smith has so many fiddle tunes from that area, that I bet he
has some named after specific locations. The Orpheus Supertones, on
"Bound To Have A Little Fun," do a fiddle tune called "Old Plank Road"
that's from Michigan. A piece that would suit you well is Charlie
Poole's "Milwaukee Blues." I think there are a number of blues-type
pieces that mention Chicago; "Sweet Home Chicago" is the only thing
that comes to mind, and I can't even remember who did it.
Does this inquiry mean you're appearing in the midwest sometime soon?
Lyle
David Sanderson
> cle...@aol.comnojunk (Cleoma) wrote in message news:<20041204201747...@mb-m28.aol.com>...
>
>>Any suggestions for tunes from the Great Lakes area, or oldtime songs that
>>mention Michigan, or the Lakes, or cities along the lakes? I realize that this
>>is pretty far north for this newsgroup, but thought someone might have
>>suggestions.
>>Thanks,
>>Suzy T.
>
>
> Hi, Suzy,
> that's from Michigan. A piece that would suit you well is Charlie
> Poole's "Milwaukee Blues." I think there are a number of blues-type
> pieces that mention Chicago; "Sweet Home Chicago" is the only thing
> that comes to mind, and I can't even remember who did it.
> Lyle
Yes, Milwaukee Blues is a keeper, though it's hard to say exactly where
the Milwaukee bit came from, the song being a version of Casey Jones.
Sweet Home Chicago is most commonly the Robert Johnson version, which is
a wonderful song but problematical in other styles.
I enjoyed the article in the latest Old Time Herald about Jep Bisbee,
the fiddler Henry Ford found in 1923; any of his recordings of standard
dance pieces would do fine for the Great Lakes region. And actually,
the Ford Orchestra recordings might be of interest, though you might
have trouble finding a sousaphone and cimbalom to make them sound authentic.
--
David Sanderson
East Waterford, Maine
mbeland1
With Me" which centered on a migration across Lake Michigan". Contact me
off line if you would like the words and melody.
John b
"Cleoma" <cle...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20041204201747...@mb-m28.aol.com...
Cleoma
as I remember is the title of Sally Rodger's song) were the first things that I
thought of, but all the suggestions are greatly appreciated. This is for a
radio piece that is being put together, they contacted me looking for music.
Thanks again -- this newsgroup is really an incredible resource, I continue to
be astounded.
David Sanderson
> Thanks for all the replies! The Henry Ford Orchestra and "Lovely Agnes" (which
> as I remember is the title of Sally Rodger's song) were the first things that I
> thought of, but all the suggestions are greatly appreciated. This is for a
> radio piece that is being put together, they contacted me looking for music.
> Thanks again -- this newsgroup is really an incredible resource, I continue to
> be astounded.
> Suzy T.
There's some detail about the Ford Orchestra and related matters in my
Mellie Dunham piece, at:
http://www.dwsanderson.com/dunhambooklet_cover.htm
if you haven't seen it.
Paul Tyler
See the latest Old Time Herald for Paul Gifford's article on Jasper
Bisbee from Paris, MI. His Opera Reel is incredible. All of the
eight sides he recorded were standards. On the other side, Les Raber
of Hastings has a couple of CDs available through Elderly with some
much more unusual tunes. For example, his Ten Strike is a quadrille
version of the Oklahoma Rooster. That one was published in the 1890s
by a David (?) McCosh of Dekalb, Illinois in Gems of the Ball Room.
Of special interest are a couple of pieces Les named after Cub Berdan,
a orchestra leader from Plymouth, MI who publishe Pride of the
Ballroom in the late 19th century. And Berdan shows up in a story in
Joe Panczerewski's tune book Pleasures of Home (or something like
that). Legendary Bad Axe fiddler George Pariseau, who recorded by
Gennett in 1929, married Berdan's widow.
Taking another approach, the Harmony Sisters recorded a song called
something about the Sky Over Michigan. Did Alice Gerard write it?
Maybe. Fiddler Frank Mattison of Greenville, MI wrote and recorded a
waltz-like piece called Moon Over Lake Erie. He put out a cassette
around 1980 when he was about 80.
There are a lot of lumbercamp songs that mention places in Michigan,
including Saginaw and Muskegon. Check out Franz Rickaby's Ballads and
Songs of the Shantyboy. Also available in libraries is Gardner and
Chickering's Ballads and Songs of Southern Michigan.
Some more quick thoughts. Patrick Stack and Eddie Mullaney recorded a
tune called Chicago Reel. Kenny Baker wrote one called the Windy City
Rag. One of the standard schottisches--I can't remember if it was the
Rochester Schottische or that one that sounds like Flop-Eared
Mule--was originally published as the Detroit Schottische. And I
recorded a couple of fiddlers from Ohio and Indiana playing a tune
called the Michigan Pioneer. That title shows up in a newspaper
report of a contest held in Detroit or Dearborn in the 1920s. John
Baltzell of Mt. Vernon, Ohio recorded the Kenion Clog in 1928. Kenyon
college is located in his home town, which is a little south of Lake
Erie.
There's more that will come to me.
Paul Tyler
cle...@aol.comnojunk (Cleoma) wrote in message news:<20041204201747...@mb-m28.aol.com>...
Brittles
As Joel points out, there are tons of folksongs from the area - and I'm sure
many made it (in one variant or another) into the oldtime reprtoire.
A lot to choose from: lumerjacks, great lakes schooners, iron ore boats,
farmers, canal songs (with mule-drivers...)
The big deal with the Erie Canal was that it connected the Great Lakes to the
Atlantic Ocean in the 1820's- finally opening much of the upper Midwest to
settlement and trade.
All of the great early minstrel troupes traveled the Erie Canal (and the
subsequent canals) during the 1840's and 1850's.
So much of their reportoire certainly fits. "Buffalo Gals" for instance...
(I have a photo somewhere of the canal docks in downtown Syracuse, in the late
1850's - with a huge sign for Bryant's Minstrels..
The minstrel George Christy was from Buffalo. Christy published some of
Stephen Foster's early tunes under his own name - so Foster's stuff is
appropriate, too.
(Ohio *IS* a Great Lakes state - even though SOUTHERN Ohio probably won't admit
it...)
The lower lakes and the upper lakes are a bit different culturally - but often
the songs and tunes were the same, and they just changed the names to fit the
locale.
There is a folk singer, Lee Murdoch (Murdock?), who does a lot of programs on
Great Lakes folksongs. (Writes some himself - so be selective...) But he might
have a good idea of the old ones with the most "old-time" feel.
Also, there used to be an old geezers hammered dulcimer club, in Michigan -
back in the 1970's. I'm sure they did many of the regional "old-time" dance
music. (I think a few of them made some records...) Joe Hickerson, or Bill
Spence might know about them...
Carl Sandberg's "American Song Bag", and Lomax's "Folk Songs of North America"
have some Great Lakes songs.
(Doesn't the song "My Name is John Johanna"/ State of Arkansas" have a line
about Buffalo in it? Not much to hang it on - but what the heck...)
Here it is:
****************From mudcat/digitrad*******
My Name is John Johanna
Sung by Kelly Harnell and the Virginia String Band,
(also John Cohen - NLCR "Outstanding in their Field")
My name is John Johanna, I came from Buffalo town,
For nine long years I've traveled this wide, wide world around,
Through ups and downs and mis'ries and some good days I saw,
But I never knew what mis'ry was 'till I went to Arkansas....
***********************************
Best-
Ed Britt
<< cleoma@(Cleoma) wrote:
>Any suggestions for tunes from the Great Lakes area, or oldtime songs that
>mention Michigan, or the Lakes, or cities along the lakes? >>
<< Joel Shimberg Fiddlinshim >>
<< If you don't restrict "oldtime' to string band songs (and them from south
of the Ohio River) you might do well to look into songs from the lumberwoods --
there's lots of collections. Check out Bayard for tunes from Erie. PA, fiddlers
-- there might be some, but I don't know it.
Paul Gifford would be a particularly good person to ask directly,
given his interest in Michigan and Western NY musics. What about Mary O. Eddy's
collection of songs and ballads from Ohio? >>
Please Remove *UNSPAM* from my address, to e-mail me.
Joel Shimberg
>I can't remember if it was the
>Rochester Schottische or that one that sounds like Flop-Eared
>Mule--was originally published as the Detroit Schottische.
I'll bet it came back to you as soon as you hit "send". It's the
Flop-Eared Mule soundalike.
Joel
David Sanderson
> Hi Suzy-
>
> As Joel points out, there are tons of folksongs from the area - and I'm sure
> many made it (in one variant or another) into the oldtime reprtoire.
I'm not sure how useful it is, but I realize that I've been listening
lately to a Wisconsin native, Viola Turpeinen, a Finnish-American
accordionist, who was a wonderful musician. She recorded from 1927
until the early 50's, toured the Midwest early on, lived in New York for
a long time. There are at least 3 CD's of reissues. Ensembles vary;
some solo, some with fiddle and/or banjo, many with two accordions. She
was powerful, authoritative and rhythmic, immediately impressive to
listen to, well known in Finnish-American and related circles today.
I just did a search for sound samples on the Web; nothing useful. This:
http://www.memoriesoffinland.com/product.asp?productid=AMCD-1005
will get you to a Washington DC outfit that sells the reissues, if
anyone is interested. If people are desperate I can put a sample up on
my Web page; seems like there ought to be something of Viola's to listen
to out there. The reissues were done by Pekka Grunow, the great Finnish
folklorist, by the way; and if you do a search you'll find a listing for
Viola Turpeinen Day there in Wisconsin.
Kerry and Sheila Blech
Nye, born on a canal boat and worked on the Ohio Canal,
from Lake Erie to the Ohio River and back. A number of
them are in the AFS collection, audio disks, at the Library
of Congress. Lyric sheets, his personal papers, etc. are
in the Baldwin-Wallace College library in Berea, Ohio,
just south of Cleveland.
Dick Swain, who then was a librarian in the Cleveland area,
learned a ton of Nye's songs, and related material, for historical
presentations in Northern Ohio. He was living and working in
Maine for a while, but I seem to recall he moved to SE Pennsylvania,
maybe West Chester? I lost contact with him a few years ago,
with both of us moving around. If someone on the group
from that area knows how to contact Dick, I bet he could give
Suzy a bunch of good material. Dick also lived in Michigan,
worked in the U.P. too, and has songs and tunes from those
areas as well.
Suzy, you might try contacting folklorist/old-time musician
Lucy Long who is at Bowling Green State University. She
probably has suitable material, but also could make referrals.
There is a great archive at BGSU, too, though mostly based
on popular culture. It's founder, Ray Browne, wrote a nice
songbook of pieces he collected (late '40s and early '50s)
called The Alabama Folk Lyric (I think, I don't see it on my shelf,
but I do have a copy somewhere) and is also the guy who
recorded Charlie and Ira Stripling for the Library of Congress
in 1952. I haven't been in touch with him for about a dozen
years though (not sure if he is still alive or not). Amy Wooley
also is now teaching at BGSU. Did you meet her when she was
on the West Coast? She got her PhD in ethnomusicology a
couple years ago from UCLA and had been at William & Mary.
Lucy told me at Clifftop that Amy would be coming to BGSU.
If you want, let me know offlist, Suzy, and I can dig up email
addies for ya.
Also, I have some historical reproduction books that were
originally made by early settlers in The Western Reserve,
which is now Northeastern Ohio. Before Ohio became a
state, it was a territory that belonged to Connecticut. The
Moses Cleaveland party established a camp at the mouth
of the Cuyahoga River, on the shores of Lake Erie (long before
it ever burned). There was a fiddler in that party (and his
name was NOT Cruzatte) and some of the diaries mentioned
the fiddle tunes they played there. I recall Fischer's Hornpipe
being one of them, offhand. I have no idea where those books
are, probably in storage boxes in the garage. One was an
interesting book by one Christian Cackler. I lived not too
far, for many years, from Cackler Road, near Kent, Ohio.
I don't know if libraries near you would have copies of
any things like that. But one book that probably would be
helpful would be Mary Olive Eddy's 'Ballads and Songs
From Ohio," the majority of them from NE Ohio. My
friend and former bandmate, Gary Dulabaum, had several
great aunts whose songs were collected by Ms. Eddy,
I think mostly in the '30s. She also published a number of
folkore journal essays, etc. so a library search may turn
up some of those. I think I remember photocopying some
from the JAF way back when, but again, their current
whereabouts in my house are unknown at this time.
Looking through the contents of the Eddy book, I see
that a lot of "standard" ballads and songs were commonly
sung there at that time (the book came out originally in
1939, I have a 1964 reprint with foreword by DK Wilgus,
a personal friend of Ms. Eddy's. Wilgus also was an
alumnus of Ohio State University).
Child: 2/4/7/10/12/13/20/46/49 ... hike...set...
Child: 53/ 73/74/75/79/81/84/93/95/112/155/200/214/243/
250/274
The Drowsy Sleeper is in there, which also was a Hammons Family
favorite.Sweet William, too, which Berty Layne was fond of. His
son Bert Jr. lived in Cleveland while I lived in that area and we'd
go to his house when "Uncle Bert" came up from Kentucky to
visit.
Billy Boy
The Butcher Boy (check Buell Kazee's great version)
Father Grumble (a Jean Ritchie fave)
The Female Warrior (!!!)
The Lily of the West
A Pretty Fair Maid
The Banks of Claudie
Pretty Polly
common Bill
The Dishonest Miller (Carson Bros. & Sprinkle had my favorite version,
which was interpreted beautifully by Uncle Willie's Brandy Snifters)
Dog and Gun (cf., Bradley Kincaid and/or Mike Seeger on this one)
How I Wish I Was Single Again
Rinordine
Mollie Vaughn
The Garden Gate
The Darby Ram (Kazee again...)
The Boston Burglar (or Louisville, or Toledo, or...)
Mary of the Wild Moor
Soldier, Soldier Won't You Marry Me (didn't Riley Puckett sing this?)
The Fox (Smothers Brothers?)
The Scolding Wife
Poor Omie (Naomi Wise)
The Romish Lady (didn't Monroe Gevedon do this one?)
The DRunkard's Dream
One Morning in May
A Fatal Acquaintance--The Fort Thomas Murder (from the other
end of the state... Cincinnati)
The Young Man Who Wouldn't Hoe Corn (there's a great version on
the Folkways LP "Fine Times at Our House")
Leo Frank and Mary Phagan (even if he was innocent)
The Blackbird, or Logan's Lament
The Wyandotte's Farewell Song
Fair Charlotte
The Dying Cowboy
Charles Guiteau (cf. great instrumental version by Ohio/WV
fiddler Ward Jarvis)
McAfee's Confession (about internet security devices)
The Dying Californian (or was that Dyeing?)
Come All Ye Roving Rangers
The Sober Quaker
Old Woman, Old Woman (aka The Deaf Women's Courtship/
Waves on the Ocean/ Pleasures of the Single Life -- see
Emmett Lundy, John Salyer, et al)
Wicked Polly (I think Marcus Martin knew this one)
I'm a Tight Little Irishman (no comment)
Finnigan's Wake (Winnigan's Fake?)
Some of the early radio stations in Cleveland hosted in
residence such old time luminaries as Clayton McMichen,
Arthur Smith, Joe Venuti (oops, not quite old time, and he
was working in Cincinnati, not ZaCleveo), and kind of on and
on. Grandpa Jones was on the air live regularly in Akron for
years. Maggie Hammons Parker lived in the Cleveland
area for a while in the '30s and '40s. Melvin Wine's sons
worked in NE Ohio for a while, too. I know a lot more
old time fiddlers who broadcast out of Cleveland in the
'30s and '40s, but am shooting blanks right now, need more
java.
There has long been a thriving traditional Irish music scene
along the shores of Lake Erie. James Giblin, whom I believe
emigrated (or is it immigrated, I forget) with Michael Coleman
himself. So picking older favorites in the Irish genre, songs and
tunes, would be right on the money.
Paul Gifford and Paul Tyler should be able to fill you in on
Michigan, Northwestern Ohio, Indiana and Illinois contributions
to the Great Lakes regional material. Paul G.'s family is originally
from western NY, so you could probably get some Buffalo,
Niagara Frontier material from him as well. The Samuel Bayard
books -- Hill Country Tunes and Dance to the Fiddle, March to
the Fife, primarily refer to fiddle and fife tunes he collecte in '
Western Pennsylvania, quite a bit in SW PA, but I think some
were from around Erie and vicinity.
Some refer to this general area as Upper U.S.
I hope this helps a bit.
Kerry (ex-Cuyahogian and Portage Countian)
--
"Cleoma" <cle...@aol.comnojunk> wrote :
Brittles
<< There were quite a bit of songs collected from Capt. Pearl
Nye, born on a canal boat and worked on the Ohio Canal,
from Lake Erie to the Ohio River and back. A number of
them are in the AFS collection, audio disks, at the Library
of Congress.... >>
Excellent as usual, Kerry. Figured you'd know a bunch of the early regional
stuff. Thanks - that post was a keeper...
Ed Britt
Kerry and Sheila Blech
> I'm not sure how useful it is, but I realize that I've been listening
> lately to a Wisconsin native, Viola Turpeinen, a Finnish-American
> accordionist, who was a wonderful musician. She recorded from 1927
> until the early 50's, toured the Midwest early on, lived in New York for
> a long time.
This reminds me of some regional recordings that are in the AFS collections:
Clayton Aldrich, 1941, Cherry Creek, NY
The Tempest/Fireman's Dance/Oxford Minuet/Speed the Plow/Money Musk
Hubert Alton, 1940, Beaver Island, MI
Irish Washer Woman
Howard Armstrong, 1930, Detroit, MI (commercial recordings)
Knox County Stomp/Vine Street Rag
Mumford Bean, erstwhile Mississippi fiddler who recorded 4 commercial
sides, 2 issued, has lived for ages in northern Indiana.
Jasper "Jep" Bisbee, born in Alleghany Co., NY but resident of Mecosta
Co., MI, recorded commercially in 1923
Money Musk/Girl I Left Behind Me/College Quadrille/Arkansas Traveler/
St. Patrick's Day/Turkey in the Straw/ College Hornpipe/McDonald's Reel/
Opera Reel
Ophy Breaux (via relatives), Cajun fiddler from Crowley, LA, recorded
commercially in the '20s. His Acadian cousins moved to the Cleveland area
in 1927 and many still reside there.
Leizime Brusoe, AFS in 1937, Rhinelander, Oneida Co. WI
Fisher's HP/Money Musk/Good For the Tongue/What Sam Gray Whistled/
Old McDonald's Reel/The Pigtown Fling/The Lancers/Mazurka/The
Sicilian Circle/Devil's Dream/Highland Fling/Soldier's Joy/French Four/
Two-Step Schottische/Lancer's Quadrille No. 1/Barbara Polka/
Varsovienne/Bruno Polka/After the Ball/Zip Coon/Military Schottische/
Heel and Toe Polka/Scotch Hornpipe/Rye Waltz/Clarinet Polka/Drops
of Brandy/ Gems of the Ballroom/Morton Reel
Michael Cashin, 1929 commercial recordings, Chicago, IL
The Kerry Reel/Shannon Shores/Ginger's Favorite/Boys of Allen/
Tuohey's Favorite/ Lamb on the Mountain/Heather and Sedge/
Trip to Erin/Lord Leitrim's Downfall/Hod Carrier's Reel/Drowsy
Maggie/Scotch Mary
Patrick Cawley, 1929, Chicago
The Traveller/Memories of Dublin
Thomas Cawley, 1926, Chicago
The Moving Bogs of Powelsboro/Sweeney's Favorite/
Miss Forkan's Fancy/The Gatehouse Maid/ The Castle Bar
Lasses/ The Drumshambo
Patrick Clancy, 1919, Chicago
Sporting Paddy/Miles From Galway/Limerick Lassies. Little
House Under the Hill/Kitty Bohan/The Lark in the Morning/
Mason's Apron/McCormick's Reel/My Love Is In America/Tattered
Jack Welch/Dublin Jig/ The Rover/Teh New Policeman/Bridle Jigs
Joe Cloud, a Metis from Odanah, Wisc, 1938
Fiddle Tune/Fiddle Tune/ Squaw Dance/Squaw Dance/ Fiddle
Tune/The White River Two Step/The Red River Jig/fiddle tune
Michael Cruise, Chesterfield, IL, 1942
Liverpool Hornpipe/Arizona Traveler/Turkey in the Straw/ Fisher's HP/
Rickett's HP/Coming Down From Denver/Money Musk/Brilliancy/
Over the Waves/Jenny Lind Polka/Schottische/Scatterbrain/Stonewall
Jackson/Old Kentucky Wagoner/Billy in the Low Ground/Hell Among
the White Oaks/Flowers of Edinburgh/Ark. Traveller
1943
The Michael Cruise/ The Highland Fling/Sally Johnson/Durang's HP/
Leather Breeches/ Buffalo Gals
Thomas Dandurand, 1927, Kankakee, IL
Haste to the Wedding/Big [sic] Town Fling/Campbells Are Coming/
Devil's Dream/Two Step Quadrille/ Larry O'Gaff
Fred Fuco, 1938, Grandville, Kent County, MI
French Polka/The Rocky Road to Dublin/French Clog/The Devil's
Dream/A Scotch Tune/Old Mother Flanagan
John McGreevey, 1934-1935 78s, LPs in 1970s, Chicago, IL
The Bank of Ireland/Cavan Lassies/Slievenanon and Dublin
Hornpipes... plus LPs later on.
Ervie Mareyes, 1935, born in Duluth, MN, though moved to Montana
then Texas.
Breakdown/Lost Indian
Mr. Miller, 1939, Mitchell, SD
Rustic Dance/Homestead Quadrille/Fireman's Ball/Little Old Cottage on the
Hill/
Selena O'Neill, 1928, Chicago, IL
The Bantry Hornpipe/Thanksgiving/ The Swaggering Jig/Give Us
A Drink of Water/Hop or Slip Jig/Whitney's Fancy/Tim O'Neill's
hornpipe/The Cuckoo's Nest/The Flowers of Edinburgh/The
Humors of Bantry/The Bridal Jig
George Pariseau, 1929-30, Bad Axe, Huron County, MI
Lover's Dream/Wagoner/Fisher's HP/Money Musk/Little Reel/
Flowers of Edinburgh/Sandy Bottom/ Pretty Pond Lillies/
Little Fairy/Moonshiner's Serenade
Col. John A. Pattee, 1924, Dundee, Monroe Co., MI
Old Catville Quadrille/Money Musk/Grey Eagle/Virginia
Reel/Old Zip Coon Medley
Henry "Tink" Queer, 1936, Ligonier, Westmoreland Co. PA
[also was collected by Sam Bayard and recorded by
Ken Mort's relatives and by Peter Hoover]
Down Yonder/Ragtime Annie/Bully of the Town/Golden
Slippers/Turkey in the Straw/Mississippi Sawyer/Old Sharon/
Widow Dunn
Dagny Veum Quisling, 1941, Madison, Wi
Springar/Halling/Schottische/Polka/Waltz
Otis Rindlisbacher, 1937-38-41, Rice Lake, Wi
Soldier's Joy/Turkey in the Hay/Woodchopper's Jig/
Rippling Brook/The Hounds in the Woods/ The
Hired Girl's Holiday/The Devil on the Wine Key/
Holling/Descriptive Piece/The Swamper's Revenge
on the Windfall/The Courderay Jig/Lumberjack
Dance Tune/Pig Schottische
B.E. Scott, early 20s/1924, origin unknown, but perhaps
Upper U.S.-er
The Wagoner/The Devil in the Hay/ The Big Eared Mule/
College Hornpipe
George Walburn, born in Ohio in 1887, rec. 1925-31 in GA
KC Railroad/Lee County Blues/Macon Georgia Bound/Home
Brew/Kansas City Railroad Blues/Decatur Street Rag/Walburn
Stomp/Wait For the Lights to Go Out/Polecat Blues/Halliawika
March/Dixie Flyer
Frank Woods, 1925, Detroit, MI
Money Musk/Canadian Husking Bee
....off the top of my head...
Kerry
Kerry and Sheila Blech
> Chirps Smith has so many fiddle tunes from that area, that I bet he
Aren't most of Chirps' tune from Southern Illinois, which is not quite
the Great Lakes? More like the Indian Creek Delta...
Kerry
Kerry and Sheila Blech
>John
> Baltzell of Mt. Vernon, Ohio recorded the Kenion Clog in 1928. Kenyon
> college is located in his home town, which is a little south of Lake Erie.
That depends on your definition of 'a little'. I thought living
an hour south of the Lake was a long ways away. We lived on
Brady Lake then.
-Kerry
Library Guy
If you can call that livin'. (I've been to Brady Lake.)
LG
pgiff...@comcast.net
Paul Tyler mentioned the tune "Michigan Pioneer," which I've never
personally encountered played by anyone in the state, but someone at a
contest in Kalamazoo in 1926 played a tune by that name.
There was a fiddler named Orin Miller, of Scottville, MI, I met in 1978
who called the tune "Haste to the Wedding" "Shores of Lake Erie." He
also sang
a song (to the tune of "Solomon Levi") that began
Oh, my name is Johnny Williams and my age is twenty-one
Then later in the song was a line:
And when I get to Ludington, I think I am a man
I'll wander up and down the streets with my dodger in my hand
Until I meet some pretty lass who chanced to go a-pass
I'll take my dodger out and ....
Ludington is near Scottville, on Lake Michigan.
I taped a version of "Jam on Gerry's Rocks" sung by Ray Hoffmeyer, of
Atlanta,
born in 1905. He must have been one of the last to work in a
traditional lumber camp, without any mechanization. Anyway, the song
is about breaking up a logjam,
and it mentions "for Gagetown we will steer" (Gagetown is virtually
nonexistent today) and Saginaw, which was a major lumber port.
His daughter liked the song "Harry Bahel," and had the words written
out. It appears in one of E. C. Beck's books ("Songs of the Michigan
Lumberjacks," "Lore of the Lumbercamps," "They Knew Paul Bunyan"). It
starts out
In the Township of Arcadia and County of Lapeer
There stood a shingle mill that lasted one year
Ray said the tune for that was the same as "Jam on Gerry's Rocks," but
I don't know, because I didn't hear either him or his daughter sing it.
Well, such unaccompanied ballads are virtually extinct now (but maybe
not other types of old songs).
I heard this next one sung by more than one person, and I forget which
tune it is, but it is a version of "Ozark Mountain Home". Is anyone
familiar with this next one? It has a more regular rhythm and would
lend itself to guitar accompaniment better:
There's a pine tree on the hill
That haunts my mem'ry still
When I think of happy days that have gone by
When my Mary and I used to play
...
Dick Spottswood's ethnic discography shows this "Polish" fiddler:
Tony Strzelicki, recorded Posen, MI, 1938 (Library of Congress)
(actually Antoni Strzelecki, born 1882 in Michigan, died 1969; lived
Posen, MI)
4 waltzes; The Irish Washerwoman; Weevily Wheat; Devil's Dream; Polka;
Wszy Portki Zjadly; Szewc---Polka; untitled; square dance; Turkey in
the Straw; square dance; bridal dance
Basically, Lower Peninsula fiddling probably resembles New York
State/northern Pennsylvania fiddling most closely. Some curious
similarities: the call "Do-Si Balinet" to the tune "Gilderoy," in
western Michigan, which Norman Cazden mentions as a Catskills custom,
in _Dances from Woodland_ (1954), and the tune "Sally Waters," which
was a fairly widespread couple dance in Michigan, which shows up in
Bayard's _March to the Fiddle_, played by the fiddler from
north-central Pennsylvania; the tune "The Tempest," which I taped
numerous versions from Michigan fiddlers, not to mention lots of other
tunes common to repertoires further east, like "Mother, oh, Mother, my
toes are sore" (I've encountered 2 fiddlers in Michigan who played it
and Bayard's book has 6 or more versions), etc.
The Thumb and the eastern Upper Peninsula were mainly settled by people
from Canada, English/Anglo-American, Scottish, Irish, as well as
French. Michael Loukinen's film "Medicine Fiddle" documents Indian
fiddling from the UP well, although one could get the wrong impression
that it is like Manitoba Metis fiddling. Bill Cameron, of Brimley, MI,
played tunes more common to Lower Michigan, as well as ones more common
to Canada (as St. Anne's Reel, Little Burnt Potato) and more obscure
ones with extra beats to the phrase. By the way, the old-timers in the
Sault Ste. Marie area liked the tune "Whitefish on the Rapids,"
allegedly written by a Civil War veteran named Henry Thorne. By and
large, it seems that the Upper Peninsula fiddling style varied
according to which ethnic group settled in which area. For example,
Elmer House, of McCarron, and Ken Smith, of Pickford (whose
Scotch-Irish ancestors came from Ontario in the late 19th century)
played Irish tunes like "Stumpie," "Green Fields of America," and
others I can't think of the names of, while not far away, Adelard
Royer, of Rudyard, who spoke with a French accent though born locally,
sang voyageur songs and played tunes I never heard anyone else play.
Maybe Patrick Bonner, from Beaver Island, which was settled in the
1850s by Irish from Donegal (I think), also fit into this
classification. Also, around Posen, there still are Polish-American
fiddlers who play a mix of tunes like Strzelecki. There are some
ethnic influences (Polish, Swedish) on fiddlers further south. There
also have been migrant fiddlers from Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee,
Missouri, Texas, Ohio, Canada, and New York, mostly in the Detroit area
and other industrial cities in the southern part of the state. Some of
these tended to play in bars, rather than at square dances.
Paul Gifford
Brittles
<< pgifford11 >>
<< With all these great posts, I don't know if I can add much... >>
Great stuff Paul. I'd say you "multiplied" the info - rather than just
"added"... ;-)
Best-
David Sanderson
> I taped a version of "Jam on Gerry's Rocks" sung by Ray Hoffmeyer, of
> Atlanta,
> born in 1905. He must have been one of the last to work in a
> traditional lumber camp, without any mechanization. Anyway, the song
> is about breaking up a logjam,
> and it mentions "for Gagetown we will steer" (Gagetown is virtually
> nonexistent today) and Saginaw, which was a major lumber port.
> Paul Gifford
I've always believed that "Jam" came originally from Maine; sounds like
it travelled and got the words tweaked a bit.
Kerry and Sheila Blech
every cent of it). And you and Library Gal were at Kenyon
too. Weren't we sharing space there with the Tamburitzans?
Was that the year the White Top Mountain Band was
there at the Gambier Folk Festival?
-K
Kerry and Sheila Blech
but also there was a Nye cut or two on some of those
AFS Library of Congress LPs and those booklets
had great information. I grew up near some of those
canal locks, too, (assuming you consider this being
"grown up") so I just had to learn about them and those
who ran the boats up and down the route. They've now
restored some stretches of the canal route. I believe
part of it has become a park, state or national I don't
know. The tow-path is functional in the area near
Peninsula, Ohio where the canal either runs parallel
to the Cuyahoga river, or perhaps uses the river for a while,
if my memory serves me correctly. It's been a few years
since I've been in Peninsula (that is where Doug and
Lois Unger live and we always try to visit them when
we are in Ohio; Doug was one of my college professors
and later I was in stringbands with both Lois and Doug).
I think Lois has done some local and regional historical
research too, as I think some of my information came
from her.
Ciao,
Kerry
Library Guy
>It was hard to beat the $50/month rent (and it was "worth"
>every cent of it). And you and Library Gal were at Kenyon
>too. Weren't we sharing space there with the Tamburitzans?
>Was that the year the White Top Mountain Band was
>there at the Gambier Folk Festival?
>-K
Maybe Brady Lake's not such a bad town after all.
LG
pgiff...@comcast.net
David Sanderson wrote:
> I've always believed that "Jam" came originally from Maine; sounds
like
> it travelled and got the words tweaked a bit.
It could have come from Maine. I don't know what the Maine words are,
but this one had "six of our brave Canadian boys" in it. He pronounced
"Gerry" with a hard "G," as in "gerrymandering." I don't know if
that's universal.
Also, to comment on the Ford Orchestra, I played fiddle and cimbalom in
reconstructions of it, around 1979-1981, at Lovett Hall in Dearborn.
The first time involved some of the callers who had been with the Ford
organization early on (one of them starting in 1929) and some people
who were dancers. At that time there were a couple of local Gypsy
cimbalom players, but they are dead now. In the '50s and '60s, the
dulcimer would have been the hard instrument to find someone to play,
not the cimbalom. Now it's the latter. Standard modern contra
dancing, rather than the old Ford stuff, goes on there a lot now.
Joel Shimberg
>He pronounced
>"Gerry" with a hard "G," as in "gerrymandering." I don't know if
>that's universal.
I think that it's universal except for people who learned it from a
book. What your doctor would call pathognomonic.
Joel
David Sanderson
> David Sanderson wrote:
>
>
>>I've always believed that "Jam" came originally from Maine; sounds
>
> like
>
>>it travelled and got the words tweaked a bit.
>
>
> It could have come from Maine. I don't know what the Maine words are,
> but this one had "six of our brave Canadian boys" in it. He pronounced
> "Gerry" with a hard "G," as in "gerrymandering." I don't know if
> that's universal.
I'm looking at "The Minstrelsy of Maine," the Fannie Hardy Eckstrom book
from 1927. She prints a version from the "Maine Sportsman," January
1904, and says it's the earliest printed version. She also prints
several versions from oral tradition, and cites a different version from
Michigan, I suppose related to the one you have. Seems likely it was
Maine originally, then migrated with the lumbermen to Michigan.
>
> Also, to comment on the Ford Orchestra, I played fiddle and cimbalom in
> reconstructions of it, around 1979-1981, at Lovett Hall in Dearborn.
> The first time involved some of the callers who had been with the Ford
> organization early on (one of them starting in 1929) and some people
> who were dancers. At that time there were a couple of local Gypsy
> cimbalom players, but they are dead now. In the '50s and '60s, the
> dulcimer would have been the hard instrument to find someone to play,
> not the cimbalom. Now it's the latter. Standard modern contra
> dancing, rather than the old Ford stuff, goes on there a lot now.
>
I know they continue to hold dances; check the Henry Ford Library and
Museum site for details if anyone is interested. After he hired
Benjamin Lovett, Ford had a set of dance callers, it appears, who were
available to schools etc. for teaching and calling.
I am now the possessor of the Dearborn Independent for most of 1925 and
1926, a bound volume I acquired from Ebay (where else?) in hopes of
finding articles about dancing and Mellie Dunham. No dice, it turns
out; the publication is a sort of general-interest magazine, with a
chunk of political commentary. The worst of the anti-Semitism seems to
have passed by the mid-20's, though there are ads in each issue for The
International Jew, Ford's compilation of conspiracy theorizing. Ford
has a page each issue, used mainly talk government policy, secrets of
success and the like.
What is of interest is the "Dance Page" which prints music and
instructions for the Ford dances, one a month. Various issues include
the waltz, the varsovienne and contras. The music for the waltz is
Dunham's "Rippling Waves." I need a piano player who reads for this,
since I have a suspicion that it's the version that Lovett transcribed
from Mellie when Mellie was in Dearborn in late 1925, rather than the
version that Carl Fischer published in 1926, and there may be
differences (or not).
David Sanderson
Gerry is a Massachusetts/Maine name, going back to Elbridge during the
Revolution, then a nephew, also Elbridge, who was in Congress from Maine
for a long time in the early 19th century.
David "Gus" Garelick
I don't know if I can add anything new here, but I grew up in Detroit in
the 1950s and early 60s. I was taking classical violin lessons and my
family and friends were generally ignorant about old time music, at
least in the sense usually used in this newsgroup. In terms of old time
ethnic music, however, there was quite a bit of that in Detroit, from
the huge Polish community. the Black community, the Greek community, as
well as our own Jewish community. The Detroit Jewish Folk Chorus was
one of my first introductions to folk music. A lot of red diaper babies
(like myself) first heard Pete Seeger songs, union songs, Woody Guthrie,
and more, plus a mass of Yiddish folk songs, long before Klezmer was
"rediscovered" years later. Many of my parent's friends were in the
chorus, and some of their kids (my friends) went on to discover groups
like the New Lost City Ramblers, and Bob Dylan, and-- the rest is
history. The famous Motown sound developed in Detroit long before the
60s, since there was already a long history of blues and jazz in the
city's Black community. The late Howard Armstrong lived in Detroit,
and played the fiddle and mandolin. I wish I'd known then what I know
now, but the city was terribly segregated. The 60s blew that wide open;
the Motown sound was one by-product of the times. The other was a
massive white flight-- but that's another story. I don't know if this
helps at all. I later learned that the fiddle tune "Flop Eared Mule"
was actually based on the "Detroit Schottisch" composed in the 1850s.
When I finally got into fiddle music, here in California, one of my
first teachers, Virg Evans, had been a former Michigander, from the town
of Albion. Many of the tunes he played were Canadian, and some were
Mellie Dunham tunes. I bought a published collection of those tunes and
surmised that Virg must have owned that same book, because he played
every one of those tunes, exactly as they were printed in the book.
Mellie Dunham was one of Henry Ford's favorite fiddlers and he recorded
with the Henry Ford Dance Orchestra in the 20s. Henry Ford encouraged
old time music and square dancing for many years. Even when I was in
school, square dancing was still a regular part of our P.E. classes, a
legacy from old Uncle Henry. So I guess I did listen to old time music
after all. Most of it was on special records the schools had. I have
no idea what those were, and I'm sure none of that is around anymore.
But that's more than my 2 cents worth.
GUS GARELICK
Brittles
<< ... I grew up near some of those
canal locks, too, (assuming you consider this being
"grown up") so I just had to learn about them and those
who ran the boats up and down the route....>>
Hi Kerry-
I grew up in the Buffalo/ Niagra Falls area - near the end of the NYS Barge
canal. (What the Erie eventually became.)
I worked in a local history museum, in Syrcause, after college - and
"interpreting" the interaction between the Syracuse Salt Industry, and the Erie
and Oswego canals, was part of our duties. (They had a GREAT photo collection
from the 1890's...)
I started a few music programs, concerts, etc., while there. It would have
been WONDERFUL to have had THIS kind of resource, then - to help find music
appropriate to the time and place.
<<It's been a few years since I've been in Peninsula (that is where Doug and
Lois Unger live and we always try to visit them when
we are in Ohio; Doug was one of my college professors
and later I was in stringbands with both Lois and Doug).
I think Lois has done some local and regional historical
research too, as I think some of my information came from her>>
I've met Doug several times at some events. Don't know him real well - but we
share a deep mutual interest in banjo ornament...
Kerry and Sheila Blech
>Paul said:
> >He pronounced
> >"Gerry" with a hard "G," as in "gerrymandering." I don't know if
> >that's universal.
>
> I think that it's universal except for people who learned it from a
> book. What your doctor would call pathognomonic.
Is the "g" in 'pathagnomonic' hard, soft, or invisible?
Joel Shimberg
>Is the "g" in 'pathagnomonic' hard, soft, or invisible?
It's hard. Think of the word "gnomon", which is the shadow thrower on
your sundial. Also "gnosis" and "Gnostic". And the unrelated "gnu"!
(And it should have been [and I think was] 'pathognomonic'.)
Joel
David Sanderson
> Mellie Dunham was one of Henry Ford's favorite fiddlers and he recorded
> with the Henry Ford Dance Orchestra in the 20s. Henry Ford encouraged
> old time music and square dancing for many years. Even when I was in
> school, square dancing was still a regular part of our P.E. classes, a
> legacy from old Uncle Henry. So I guess I did listen to old time music
> after all. Most of it was on special records the schools had. I have
> no idea what those were, and I'm sure none of that is around anymore.
> But that's more than my 2 cents worth.
>
> GUS GARELICK
If you want more of Mellie, you can go to:
http://www.dwsanderson.com/dunhambooklet_cover.htm
my history of his musical career, with emphasis on the Ford/vaudeville
period, 1925-26.