Texas Style
James E. Hodges
Anyone here interested in Texas Style fiddle music (i.e. Benny thomasson,
Texas Shorty, Herman Johnson, Dick Barrett, Tony Ludiker, Mathew Hartz,
J.P. Riley, Rudi Booher, Jim Ed Hodges, Mark O'Connor). If you are, I'd
like to converse with you on this newsgroup.
fos...@eden.com
On 6/21/96 3:30PM, in message <31CB06...@host1.dia.net>, "James E. Hodges"
<jho...@host1.dia.net> wrote:
Yes. I'm an admirer of Texas old-time fiddling, and always interested in
finding out more about that style of music. Go to cons tests whenever I can
(next one coming up is Friday in Driftwood, the Dayton C. Roberts Memorial
Contest, at Camp Ben McCulloch in Driftwood, near Austin) and try to collect
whatever recordings I can. The level of musicianship at some of the big
contests is something to behold, and so much of it by young players like Jason
McBride, Brandy and Robert Weeks, Christian Luevano, and others. Although Texas
fiddling has received some attention from the experts, it is very encouraging
to note that this style of music has long survived without much intervention by
the folklore establishment, and thrived without the subsidy. I've tried to
learn as much I can about the early fiddlers, and the roots of the modern
style. Poking around here and there I've collected some interesting tid bits.
If you're interested, I'll be glad to pass them along. Do have one question
that's been puzzling me. The East Texas Serenaders recorded Mineola Rag, and
I've often seen it noted down in the key of D...Give it a try in Eb (the pitch
on the 78) and see if you don't think some of the most fetching parts of that
tune don't "bow" better in that key. Done Gone... on long enough.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dan Foster
fos...@eden.com
"..kind of a place where folks would go in town Saturday evening to fight, and
a dance would break out." - Johnny Gimble
Paul Mitchell
On Tue, 25 Jun 1996 Dan Foster wrote:
> Do have one question
> that's been puzzling me. The East Texas Serenaders recorded Mineola
> Rag, and I've often seen it noted down in the key of D...Give it a try
> in Eb (the pitch on the 78) and see if you don't think some of the most
> fetching parts of that tune don't "bow" better in that key.
It's obvious that the fiddler in this group (Doc Williams?) was a very
sophisiticated musician, at home in the flat keys. He plays a beautiful
waltz (which was shown to me by Allin Cottrell and Nancy Crooks [Allin
what is the name of this piece?]), which fits this category as well. We
played it in D, but the record is pitched in Eb.
Paul
==============================================================================
Paul Mitchell email: pa...@thing.oit.unc.edu
Office of Information Technology phone: (919) 962-5259
University of North Carolina
==============================================================================
fos...@eden.com
> It's obvious that the fiddler in this group (Doc Williams?) was a very
> sophisiticated musician, at home in the flat keys. He plays a beautiful
> waltz (which was shown to me by Allin Cottrell and Nancy Crooks [Allin
> what is the name of this piece?]), which fits this category as well. We
> played it in D, but the record is pitched in Eb.
>
I hadn't heard Williams referred to as Doc before. Always wondered what his
given name was, having only known him as D.H. Williams. Do you know any more
about the fiddler for the East Tx. Serenaders? Too bad there are not more
recordings of early Texas fiddlers. Always stumped me why no domestic label
has ever done a complete reissue of Eck Robertson - that man was brilliant,
and he knew it! Oscar Harper was another incredible musician, long overdue for
re-issue. Musical Traditions, an English company, put out a fine tape last
year of Texas fiddling from the 20s "Yearlings in the Canebrake" with cuts by
Red Steely, Prince Albert Hunt, and Capt. M.J. Bonner. Bonner was a Civil War
veteran who launched what was I think the country's first radio barndance in
1923 over station WBAP in Ft. Worth. Others like Matt Brown (credited with
composing Done Gone while hitch-hiking in West Texas), Captain Poe Houston
(originator of Shuck in the Bush), never were recorded. There could never be
enough recordings of Benny Thomasson. The development of that body of "contest"
tunes in Texas over the last 10 years is also worthy of attention. Get your
hands on a tape of a recent Texas contest and listen to a tune like Dusty
Miller. The gradual, progressive, measured transformation of that tune
continues. I can't wait to hear how it's played next year at Halletsville.
________________________________________________________________________________
Dan Foster
fos...@eden.com\
..we do not yet know all the basic laws: there is an expanding frontier of
ignorance. - Dick Feynman.
Dee Purchase
: Anyone here interested in Texas Style fiddle music (i.e. Benny thomasson,
: Texas Shorty, Herman Johnson, Dick Barrett, Tony Ludiker, Mathew Hartz,
: J.P. Riley, Rudi Booher, Jim Ed Hodges, Mark O'Connor). If you are, I'd
: like to converse with you on this newsgroup.
I love the Texas style of fiddling. I have had the privelage of taking
lessons from Matthew Hartz, who, with his wife Daneta, own a studio here in
Boise, Idaho. Incidentally, we're not far from Wieser either.
Well, enough bragging, I'd love to start a discussion about Texas style
fiddling.
--
(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)
| ___ _ |
| Dee Purchase /) (__) \ |
<> d...@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com o== 1__========I=I= <>
| \__( )_/ |
| |
(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)Oo--oO(X)
LUT...@ix.netcom.com
> Anyone here interested in Texas Style fiddle music (i.e. Benny thomasson,
> Texas Shorty, Herman Johnson, Dick Barrett, Tony Ludiker, Mathew Hartz,
> J.P. Riley, Rudi Booher, Jim Ed Hodges, Mark O'Connor). If you are, I'd
> like to converse with you on this newsgroup.
I am interested in Texas Style fiddling. All those that you mention are great.
One that is also great, but hard to find recordings of since he died in 1984, is
Terry Morris. His brother Dale Morris is still around and doing great, but Terry
Morris had a style that really "kicks".
I play some, but my son is the fiddler. He is going to a fiddle camp in
Texarkanna, TX the week of July 8. It features Dale Morris as a master teacher,
and other great texas guitar players too. Nice to hear from you about "Texas
Style."
----
Paul Mitchell
> I hadn't heard Williams referred to as Doc before. Always wondered what his
> given name was, having only known him as D.H. Williams. Do you know any more
> about the fiddler for the East Tx. Serenaders?
Hello Dan,
It was sheer ignorance on my part to ascribe the name *Doc* to D. H.
Williams, (isn't there a Doc & Chickie Williams who were part of a
Barndance show elsewhere, maybe West Virginia)?
> Too bad there are not more
> recordings of early Texas fiddlers. Always stumped me why no domestic label
> has ever done a complete reissue of Eck Robertson - that man was brilliant,
> and he knew it!
Maybe we can convince Peter Feldman to re-issue his Sonyatone album of
Eck's original recordings.
> Oscar Harper was another incredible musician, long overdue for re-issue.
So far, the only cut of Oscar's that I've seen on a re-issue is Dallas
Bound, which came out on the County Texas Farewell album (in their great
500 series). But, (as I'm sure you know), his versions of Billy in the
Lowground and Sally Johnson are real unusual, with odd timings and choice
of notes. His playing of Twinkle Little Star and Terrell Texas Blues
(both in C) are pretty brilliant. There are also some Library of Congress
recordings of him playing (Girl I Left Behind Me, right?; seems to me we
had this discussion once before) live at a square dance. I'd be
interested in having a full discography of his output.
Paul M. Gifford
Too bad there are not more
>recordings of early Texas fiddlers. Always stumped me why no domestic label
>has ever done a complete reissue of Eck Robertson - that man was brilliant,
>and he knew it!
Didn't County do one about 20 years ago, with most (if not all) of the Eck
Robertson records? I don't have it, but I recall seeing it. They also did
one of other '20s Texas fiddlers, if I recall.
Oscar Harper was another incredible musician, long overdue for
>re-issue. Musical Traditions, an English company, put out a fine tape last
>year of Texas fiddling from the 20s "Yearlings in the Canebrake" with cuts by
>Red Steely, Prince Albert Hunt, and Capt. M.J. Bonner. Bonner was a Civil War
>veteran who launched what was I think the country's first radio barndance in
>1923 over station WBAP in Ft. Worth.
Know any more about him? Like when he was born?
Others like Matt Brown (credited with
>composing Done Gone while hitch-hiking in West Texas), Captain Poe Houston
>(originator of Shuck in the Bush), never were recorded. There could never be
>enough recordings of Benny Thomasson. The development of that body of "contest"
>tunes in Texas over the last 10 years is also worthy of attention. Get your
>hands on a tape of a recent Texas contest and listen to a tune like Dusty
>Miller. The gradual, progressive, measured transformation of that tune
>continues. I can't wait to hear how it's played next year at Halletsville.
Paul Gifford
Bo Bradham
>
>I love the Texas style of fiddling. I have had the privelage of taking
>lessons from Matthew Hartz, who, with his wife Daneta, own a studio here in
>Boise, Idaho. Incidentally, we're not far from Wieser either.
>
>Well, enough bragging, I'd love to start a discussion about Texas style
>fiddling.
Why don't you stat by telling us who won Weiser? Strange as it
may seem, it didn't make the front page out here in the east.
Bo Bradham
--
"Reality as we know it is
not exactly what I had in mind."
- Roy Blount, Jr.
Peter Feldmann
Paul Mitchell wrote about Re: Texas Style:
>> Too bad there are not more
>> recordings of early Texas fiddlers. Always stumped me why no domestic
label
>> has ever done a complete reissue of Eck Robertson - that man was
brilliant,
>> and he knew it!
>
>Eck's original recordings.
I stand ready to be convinced.
_Peter
-------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Feldmann * Blue Dalmatian Productions
feld...@seldon.terminus.com
-------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Douglass
In article <4r8nu8$f...@mycogen.terminus.com>, feld...@seldon.terminus.com
wrote:
I've never been real keen on Texas style fiddling but I have to say that
those early recordings on that Eck Robertson album are sure enough
astounding! I can't blame every Texas style fiddler in the universe for
playing Eck's "Sally Goodin". That ol' boy sure could render.
Dave
Jack Aldrich
Hi Peter. Please do it! My LP is almost worn out. - Jack
Dmarts
I'll take two!
Dave M
fos...@eden.com
Paul wrote:
> > Oscar Harper was another incredible musician, long overdue for re-issue.
>
> Bound, which came out on the County Texas Farewell album (in their great
> 500 series). But, (as I'm sure you know), his versions of Billy in the
> Lowground and Sally Johnson are real unusual, with odd timings and choice
> of notes. His playing of Twinkle Little Star and Terrell Texas Blues
> (both in C) are pretty brilliant. There are also some Library of Congress
> recordings of him playing (Girl I Left Behind Me, right?; seems to me we
> had this discussion once before) live at a square dance. I'd be
> interested in having a full discography of his output.
I'll get right to work on it. I understand his grand daugher lives up in Ft.
Worth and appreciates her grandfather's contributions. So far no luck locating
her. OH's Twinkle Little Star is one of my favorite tunes - flip side is a
great version of Bitter Creek. Came across a 78 of his a while back - worn to
nub. The label on one side was completely obliterated, the other side only the
name Oscar Harper was dimly visible and the word 'Waltz'. Do you know of any
recordings (available or otherwise) of Harper playing a waltz?
Dan
________________________________________________________________________-
fos...@eden.com
"Pretty good, what there was of it...and plenty of it, such as it was."
Don Miller
Bo Bradham
<fos...@eden.com> wrote:
>... There could never be enough recordings of Benny Thomasson.
>tunes in Texas over the last 10 years is also worthy of attention. Get your
>hands on a tape of a recent Texas contest and listen to a tune like Dusty
>Miller. The gradual, progressive, measured transformation of that tune
>continues.
For some insightful reading on that subject, get your hands on a
copy of Matt Glaser's thesis ("Controlled Improvisation: mumble
mumble something-or-other") . He analyzes the playing of Benny
Thomasson and Mark O'Connor on one tune (He was gonna use "Dusty
Miller" but found more recordings of "Grey Eagle" so he went with
it instead). It's got some interesting bio information about
Benny, an interview with Mark, some comments from other
fiddlers, plus Matt's inimitable musings about and analysis of
fiddling. There's about 100 pages of transcriptions of the tune
too.
I didn't want to post this until I had Matt's ok, but he said you
could write him c/o :
Berklee College of Music
1140 Boylston Street
Boston Massachusetts 02215.3693 USA
He'll prolly tell you to send a large stamped self-addressed envelope
(postage for about 200 pages or a small-town phone book. Before
the last rate hike it was about $2.90. Adjust accordingly now
that a first class stamp is $.32 Outside the US your guess is
good as mine.) You'll also want to throw in something for xerox
costs, about 200 pages worth. Let your conscience be your
guide. [disclaimer disclaimer yadda yadda yadda]
Speaking of recordings of Benny Thomasson, there's more good
news. That "Jam Session With Benny & Jerry Thomasson" album that
was out of print has been re-issued on cassette. The LP was on
Voyager but I don't know who put out the cassette. It'd be worth
tracking down, that's for sure.
Bo Bradham
--
"Sometimes you just have to throw the damn pie and start dancing."
- Kiran Wagle
fos...@eden.com
On 6/28/96 6:52AM, in message <gifford_p.1...@lib.flint.umich.edu>,
>
> Didn't County do one about 20 years ago, with most (if not all) of the Eck
> Robertson records? I don't have it, but I recall seeing it. They also did
> one of other '20s Texas fiddlers, if I recall.
County did put out a couple of fine records away back one of the East Texas
Serenaders and another, a collection called Texas Farewell of fiddling from the
20s. Both out of print.
Paul also asks about Capt. MJ Bonner - Confederate Veteran, fiddler...started
first radio barn dance on WBAP in Ft Worth back in 1923.
> Know any more about him? Like when he was born?
>
> I got copy of a tape from a friend of Capt.Bonner playing archaic sounding
> versions of Dusty Miller, and Yearlings in the Canebrake years ago, but knew
> nothing about his story til I read Cary Ginell's great book - Milton Brown
> and the Founding of Western Swing.
Rose Marie Holt
>
> Speaking of recordings of Benny Thomasson, there's more good
> news. That "Jam Session With Benny & Jerry Thomasson" album that
> was out of print has been re-issued on cassette. The LP was on
> Voyager but I don't know who put out the cassette. It'd be worth
> tracking down, that's for sure.
>
> Bo Bradham
> --
Don't know if this is the same recording, but I just picked up a copy of
_Benny & Jerry Thomasson, The Weiser Reunion_ on cassette tape for $10.
According to the liner notes, it was recorded in 1972, and the tape is
from Voyager (424 35th Avenue, Seattle WA 98122, phone: (208) 323-1112).
Tunes include: Cripple Creek, Salt River, Apple Blossom, Sally Johnson,
Billy in the Lowground, Grey Eagle, & others. It's a good recording, and
even though they claim "This recording was made outside Benny's trailer,
under the trees in the campground in Weiser...", they either did a good
job of filtering out the background noise/music/jamming, or it was quiet
in the campground -- hard to believe at Weiser.
Ken Pollard (using my wife's account)
Nampa, Idaho
James E. Hodges
Whenever Benny played anywhere, it was always quite. Everyone wanted to
listen and learn from the master.
Dmarts
If anyone is interested, I just bought the County 410 lp "East Texas
Serenaders 1927-36" at DownHome Music ( home of Arhoolie) in El Cerrito
Ca. Don''t know if it's out of print, but they had a few unopened copies
left.
Dave M
James E. Hodges
Bo Bradham wrote:
> Why don't you stat by telling us who won Weiser? Strange as it
> may seem, it didn't make the front page out here in the east.
Tony Ludiker won Weiser this year. Next year, ME!
Jim Ed Hodges
MT, ND State &
International Fiddle Champion