Sugaree etymology?

[Lyle Lofgren]

In Elizabeth Cotten's song, to "shake sugaree" obviously means to
come up empty, to "crap out" in dice parlance. I wonder if it refers
to a dice game? I'm interested in the source of the word (gullah?
Amerindian? other?) rather than the Grateful-Dead-type morphs
(although I like that song, too, but for different reasons).

Intuitively, it sounds like a term related to a specific game, such as
"Don't Let Your Deal Go Down," which refers to the Georgia Skin Game
(http://www.lizlyle.lofgrens.org/RmOlSngs/RTOS-DealGo.html).

Any information?

Lyle

[lowg...@ao1.com]

Lyle Lofgren <lylel...@visi.com> wrote:

>In Elizabeth Cotten's song, to "shake sugaree" obviously means to
>come up empty, to "crap out" in dice parlance.

The following, from an old post by "outfidel", makes more sense to me:

Jean Ritchie says that folks used to throw sugar on the floor to "slick up
the dance floor" back in the country. To "shake sugaree" means to have a
good time and dance. "Didn't we shake sugaree?" is like "didn't we have a
time?" or "didn't we boogie?".

[Lyle Lofgren]

On May 26, 1:38 pm, lowge...@ao1.com wrote:

That might be the origin of the word, but I'm not convinced -- it
doesn't match the usage in the Cotten song, which has nothing about
past pleasures. Also, I can't imagine sugaring the dance floor as
being a common thing to do: corn meal is invariably cheaper, since
it's available locally, while sugar had to be imported into the
mountains (and a lot of sugar was needed for moonshine liquor
production, which would have made it a doubly scarce commodity).

Still, that idea is better than no idea at all.

Lyle

[j_ns...@msn.com]

Cotten said some of her great grandchildren made up the verses and she
did the music. "The first verse, my eldest great grandson [Johnny
Evans], he made that himself, and from that each [great grandchild]
would say a word and add to it. To tell the truth, I don´t know what
got it started, but it must have been something said or something
done."

Joseph Scott

[Lyle Lofgren]

Thanks, Joseph -- I wasn't aware of that quote -- I'll remember to use
it anytime someone asks for an explanation. I suppose I should let the
mystery be, but I've always been interested in word (as well as song)
origins.

Lyle

[Phil Blank]

This may be completely wrong but- I did a bit of research into this
song and I think you can make a case it could refer to the Shokari or
Shoccorree tribe that lived near Chapel Hill NC about 250 years
before. The whole story is quite complicated. I wrote it up and you
can access it here: http://philblank.net/Shake%20Shoccoree.doc

It's been a while since I read it so I hope there's nothing in here
too out of line.

Phil

[Lyle Lofgren]

Very interesting reading, Phil. I'd never heard of the Shokari before.
But, from that long ago, the name would have to have been passed down
orally through the generations, so someone, somewhere, should know a
traditional expression or expletive that involves Shokari or Sugaree.
I admit the "shake" part could be alliteration, and would not have to
be traditional. Or maybe the grandchildren really did make up the
whole thing? Or maybe we can't know for sure.

Thanks for sharing your research.

Lyle

[hucktunes]

Whether that is the origin of the phrase or not I sure did enjoy the
story. Thanks Phil.