Earliest records of blues on guitar were before '20s
Joe Scott
Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
the first recording of blues on guitar.
http://www.allenlowe.com/alpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Really-The-Blues-Liner-Excerpts.pdf
Here is Nick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPjQSaVEmg
When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
Here's a picture of Helen:
http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=9201
(Another guitarist of interest who was recording by 1922 is Sam Moore,
from Florida, who is omitted from more books on "hillbilly" musicians
than he should be, apparently partly because he doesn't fit with the
famous story that recordings of "white" folk music by Southerners
began with John Carson in 1923.
http://www.mainspringpress.com/moore.html )
If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
obviously is.
Joseph Scott
thomas
> I just came across something on the web, apparently written by Allen
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
>
There's no arguing that he's playing blues there, and with some pretty
hip changes too. Check out the chorus that starts at 1:41. He's
harmonically way ahead of most blues of that era.
> When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
> guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
That's definitely a blues too, by any reasonable definition. So they
precede Lucas.
> If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
> Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
> of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
> Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
> heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
>
> But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
> using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
> isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
> obviously is.
I'm not sure understand how Funky Butt would get classified as a
blues.
Have you checked out any of the mandolin records of the pre-war era? I
haven't.
Leezi
As some, such as Mississippi John Hurt, knew it, it had chords close
to "One Dime Blues," and it had the repetitive lyrics approach that
was common in blues and less common in "black" music more generally,
and some musicians called it a "Blues." It's one of those borderline
ones, probably makes most sense to call it not a blues imo, but
recognize that it was part of the larger world of "black" folk music
that was nearly blues, such as "McKinley."
Joseph Scott
Leezi
>
> I'm not sure understand how Funky Butt would get classified as a
> blues.
This version makes the connection to the blues tradition easier to
hear:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqTybLQeto
Joseph Scott
Joe Scott
The connection to the blues tradition is easier to hear if you listen
to this version of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqTybLQeto
Joseph Scott
Gerry
> I just came across something on the web, apparently written by Allen
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
I found a reference to this one on "Pioneers of Jazz Guitar" (Yazoo)
and in 1922. I wonder why it is unlisted in "Pop Memories". Maybe
Whitburn simply didn't include instrumentals. Seems strange.
--
-- At this point Sharazad saw the approach of morning and discreetly
fell silent.
Jonathan (not from Cleveland)
>
> I'm not sure understand how Funky Butt would get classified as a
> blues.
>
I have a recording of Mississippi John Hurt doing that one.
If it's the same song, I guess it could be characterized as "country
blues."
rle...@cloudnet.com
to me like a lot of Tin Pan Alley-based Hawaiian lap-steel material of
the time, with a big dose of "Frankie and Johnny" in the first strain.
I wouldn't take the name as an indication of any intention of
producing a blues in the mainland sense--see, for example, "Hula
Blues."
"Teasing the Frets" sounds even less bluesy to me--very multi-section
raggy, as is "St. Louis Tickle." I'm not sure that the presence of
"blue notes" means much more than that it belongs to a large family of
American vernacular music traditions.
On the matter Eddie Lang as an influence on Lonnie Johnson, how would
that work, given that they are near-contemporaries (Johnson a few
years older than Lang)? Johnson had recorded with Armstrong and
Ellington in 1927-28, before he recorded with Lang in 1929. They seem
to me to have had parallel careers that eventually intersected. But
maybe I'm missing something in the scrum of the musical-exchange
culture.
Neer
> I just came across something on the web, apparently written by Allen
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
>
>
> Here is Nick:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPjQSaVEmg
>
> When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
> guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
>
> Here's a picture of Helen:
>
> http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=9201
>
> (Another guitarist of interest who was recording by 1922 is Sam Moore,
> from Florida, who is omitted from more books on "hillbilly" musicians
> than he should be, apparently partly because he doesn't fit with the
> famous story that recordings of "white" folk music by Southerners
> began with John Carson in 1923.
>
> http://www.mainspringpress.com/moore.html)
>
> If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
> Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
> of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
> Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
> heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
>
> But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
> using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
> isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
> obviously is.
>
> Joseph Scott
Being a one time collector of Hawaiian recordings, I previously owned
many other Ferera-Louise recordings. Ferera's nickname was Palakiko.
He was of Portuguese descent and was also called the Portuguese
Cowboy. To me, this recording sounds like a cross between Frankie
and Johnny and a march that was so often played by early hawaiian
guitarists. The fact that it was named Palakiko Blues possibly came
as a result of the fact that blues recordings were starting to become
popular on the mainland--Handy's "Memphis Blues" already was published
as sheet music by 1912. Maybe the name was designated by Columbia
Records. It's all speculation at this point.
Neer
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
>
>
> Here is Nick:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPjQSaVEmg
>
> When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
> guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
>
> Here's a picture of Helen:
>
> http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=9201
>
> (Another guitarist of interest who was recording by 1922 is Sam Moore,
> from Florida, who is omitted from more books on "hillbilly" musicians
> than he should be, apparently partly because he doesn't fit with the
> famous story that recordings of "white" folk music by Southerners
> began with John Carson in 1923.
>
> http://www.mainspringpress.com/moore.html)
>
> If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
> Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
> of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
> Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
> heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
>
> But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
> using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
> isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
> obviously is.
>
> Joseph Scott
Being somewhat of a Hawaiian music aficionado, I used to own many
Ferera-Louise recordings. He was of Portuguese descent and was called
the Portuguese Cowboy and Palakiko. I believe this recording to be
based on Frankie and Johnny and then with a foray into a march-like
section (many Hawaiian recordings were marches). It could be very
possible that Columbia named the tune as a Blues because Blues was
just starting to become popular. WC Handy's Memphis Blues was already
published as sheet music way before then. It is all pure speculation
at this point, though.
Neer
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
>
>
> Here is Nick:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPjQSaVEmg
>
> When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
> guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
>
> Here's a picture of Helen:
>
> http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=9201
>
> (Another guitarist of interest who was recording by 1922 is Sam Moore,
> from Florida, who is omitted from more books on "hillbilly" musicians
> than he should be, apparently partly because he doesn't fit with the
> famous story that recordings of "white" folk music by Southerners
> began with John Carson in 1923.
>
> http://www.mainspringpress.com/moore.html)
>
> If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
> Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
> of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
> Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
> heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
>
> But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
> using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
> isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
> obviously is.
>
> Joseph Scott
Frank Palakiko Ferera was also known as the Portuguese Cowboy. I
owned many of his 78s, being an avid collector of Hawaiian music and a
player. To me, the tune Palakiko Blues sounds like it was based on
Frankie and Johnny and then a march type tune like was typically
performed by Hawaiian steel players at that time. I would bet that
Columbia records named it a Blues to capitalize on the rising
popularity of Blues. Handy's Memphis Blues had already been published
as sheet music by then.
Neer
> Lowe, asking whether Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" from 1922 was
> the first recording of blues on guitar.
>
>
> Here is Nick:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqPjQSaVEmg
>
> When Helen Louise died in 1919 she had already recorded blues on
> guitar with her husband Frank Ferera, including this one:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfMbIBajMyU
>
> Here's a picture of Helen:
>
> http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=9201
>
> (Another guitarist of interest who was recording by 1922 is Sam Moore,
> from Florida, who is omitted from more books on "hillbilly" musicians
> than he should be, apparently partly because he doesn't fit with the
> famous story that recordings of "white" folk music by Southerners
> began with John Carson in 1923.
>
> http://www.mainspringpress.com/moore.html)
>
> If you think the tune sometimes called "Funky Butt" or "Buddy Bolden's
> Blues" is a blues (which it arguably isn't), then there is a recording
> of blues by a trio including a guitarist from the '00s, "St. Louis
> Tickle" by the Ossman-Dudley Trio, since that tune is one the strains
> heard in "St. Louis Tickle," starting at 1:06:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kx43BgEQ-5U
>
> But even supposing we decide "Funky Butt" (which some artists played
> using chords closer to "One Dime Blues" than Ossman and company did)
> isn't blues material as such, some of the Ferera and Louise stuff
> obviously is.
>
> Joseph Scott
I've tried to reply to this thread so many times....arrgh!
Frank Palakiko Ferera was the Portuguese cowboy. I had a whole bunch
of his 78s, as I am an avid Hawaiian music fan and player (to some
degree). I think the tune Palakiko Blues was more based on Frankie
and johnny and then a march like the Hawaiian steel players often
played. I'd bet Columbia Records named it Palakiko Blues.
thomas
> I'm curious about how "Palakiko Blues" qualifies as a blues. It sounds
> to me like a lot of Tin Pan Alley-based Hawaiian lap-steel material of
> the time, with a big dose of "Frankie and Johnny" in the first strain.
> I wouldn't take the name as an indication of any intention of
> producing a blues in the mainland sense--see, for example, "Hula
> Blues."
>
> "Teasing the Frets" sounds even less bluesy to me--very multi-section
> raggy, as is "St. Louis Tickle." I'm not sure that the presence of
> "blue notes" means much more than that it belongs to a large family of
> American vernacular music traditions.
Both performances contain 12-bar blues chord progressions.
guitarmaniax
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Teasing The Frets" and its flipside "Picking The Guitar" were not
blues songs. However, they were the first guitar recordings made with
a flatpick. Nick Lucas was indeed the first American Guitar Hero,
being the first to have a guitar built to his specifications and named
after him, predating Gene Autry, Bradley Kincaid, etc. His popularity
had an enormous effect on the sales of guitars. "Blues" was a
stylistic genre foisted upon the public by the record companies, who
found they could sell lots of "Race" records to white audiences.
Artists such as Blind Blake and Charley Patton had very diverse styles
ranging through Ragtime and Classical, but were confined to mostly
Blues songs for their recordings by the record companies. Lonnie
Johnson and Blind Willie Dunn (Eddie Lang's pseudonym when backing up
black performers such as Johnson and Bessie Smith for Okeh) became
good friends and definitely cross-influenced each other; I don't think
Eddie ever bent a string before meeting Lonnie. And Jenks "Tex" Carman
was not white, he was a Native American whose Hawaiian-based style
remained virtually unchanged from the 1920s through the 1960s. He
played Hawaiian style on a Martin with a raised nut - old style
indeed!
Steve Goldfield
Just a comment on the term "blues" in early recordings. Record
companies found that
having "blues" in the title led to much greater sales so they pressed
recording artists
to use it. The Allen Brothers recorded lots of such tunes. When they
hired Bob
Douglas as a fiddler and tried to record some breakdowns, they didn't
sell as well.
So, they let Bob go and resumed issuing records with blues in the
title. I'm less
interested in recording dates than in the process of morphing from old-
time to
blues. One great example was Charlie Patton, who recorded banjo tunes
on
the relatively new guitar and then began playing what we would now
recognize
as blues. Another is a great moment in a film called "Step It Up and
Go: Blues
in the Carolinas" when Etta Baker, whose dad played clawhammer banjo,
played
"Careless Love" on the guitar in the folk style her dad played. Then
she said,
"And here is how I play it," in fingerstyle blues. The speed with
which the guitar
was taken up and raised to levels of tremendous artistry is a
phenomenal story.
Steve Goldfield
Gerry
Welcome to rmmgj, Steve.
FYI: You don't have to hit the return key when typing posts. If you
simply continue typing it will automatially format your post for
whichever screen will eventually view it. If you hit the return key, it
formats as above, potentially reducing readers like me
Joe Scott
not, a la Handy's "St. Louis Blues" and Mamie Smith's recording of
"Crazy Blues," both of which people certainly don't say aren't blues
very often.
Blues music was around in the South by 1908, and was popular in the
South but not the North as of 1913. The record companies embraced
urban-style blues during about 1914-1920 but only got interested in
recording folk-style blues, by "black" or "white" artists, about 1923.
Artists who were asked to record blues during about 1923 on typically
were familiar with pre-1923-style actual blues music and typically
responded to the request by recording actual blues music. Blues music
was a fad in North and South as of about 1917-1918, so there's not
much reason to imagine that Helen Louise and husband recorded their
"Blues" of her last few years while unaware of that genre of music and
the 12-bar approach routinely associated with it.
Joseph Scott
Joe Scott
[...]
> Just a comment on the term "blues" in early recordings. Record
> companies found that
> having "blues" in the title led to much greater sales so they pressed
> recording artists
> to use it. The Allen Brothers recorded lots of such tunes. When they
> hired Bob
> Douglas as a fiddler and tried to record some breakdowns, they didn't
> sell as well.
> So, they let Bob go and resumed issuing records with blues in the
> title.
To the best of my understanding, blues music was already enough of a
fad in the Northeast by the end of 1916 that the Original Dixieland
Jazz Band would have been encouraged to record a larger proportion of
blues than they were previously used to including in their sets -- and
ditto for Wilbur Sweatman, the Louisiana Five, and so on. Of course
the comments about the Allen Brothers and the like shouldn't be read
as implying the Allen Brothers weren't familiar with blues, they were
and they recorded good blues, while the older aspects of what they
knew went underrecorded.
I'm less
> interested in recording dates than in the process of morphing from old-
> time to
> blues. One great example was Charlie Patton, who recorded banjo tunes
> on
> the relatively new guitar[...]
The people who researched "black" Southern folk music during about
1900-1909 found lots of guitarists, very largely playing non-blues.
Southern musicians about Charlie Patton's age would have encountered
blues about 1908-1911, but typically weren't asked until the late '20s
to make any recordings in folk style, blues or not. So the recordings
made in the late '20s by Patton's peers included c. 1928 style blues,
c. 1918 style blues, and sometimes c. 1908 style blues.
Joseph Scott
thomas
> Nick Lucas's "Teasing The Frets" is partly in 12-bar form and partly
> not, a la Handy's "St. Louis Blues" and Mamie Smith's recording of
> "Crazy Blues," both of which people certainly don't say aren't blues
> very often.
I agree. The Lucas record certainly does contain choruses of 12-bar
blues, even if it's not all 12-bar blues.