North Fork Ramblers
James N. Stewart
the Norht Fork Ramblers from Ohio from 1979. Did those boys ever make
another?
I was always particulrly fond of their recording of House of David Blues.
Imagine my surprize last year when I discovered that it was originally
recorded by Bix Beiderbeck.
Nancy Mamlin
last time I heard them was probably in 1986 or 7, maybe as late as 1988....
They were favorites of the Coal Country Cloggers from Pittsburgh, a group I
was part of from 1984-1988.
Does anyone out there know if they're still around and playing?
Nancy Mamlin
"James N. Stewart" <jnst...@csj.net> wrote in message
news:tup1pto...@corp.supernews.com...
Marianne Kovatch
recordings prior to the "Gee Ain't It Grand" record.
"The listener will find this record quite a change from the strict old
time format of the Rounders' first two releases, Railroadin' and
Gamblin' (Davis Unlimited) and The Mountain Whippoorwill (private
release)."
You could write to Les Powers and ask if they recorded any others, or
if the earlier recordings are still available - he still appears to be
in Newark, OH, although at a different address.
Marianne
Lyle & Elizabeth Lofgren
I'm speaking from a position of complete ignorance here, having heard
neither the North Fork Ramblers' nor Bix Beiderbeck's version, but I
imagine that the N.F. Ramblers would have learned their version from
that of Sam and Kirk McGee rather than Bix.
When I was young and growing up in the north countree, the only thing
I knew about the House of David was that it was a black baseball team,
consisting of players who would goof around on the field (like the
Harlem Globetrotters would later do with basketball), meanwhile
beating the crap out of the small-town local team. Some things I
remember was a catcher who sat in a rocking chair and a batter who ran
around the bases backwards. If baseball still had entertainment like
that, they wouldn't have to have contractions -- something Iassociate
with birth, not death.
So -- besides exhibition baseball -- what else did the House of David
people do?
Lyle
Neil Rossi
>>When I was young and growing up in the north countree, the only thing
>>I knew about the House of David was that it was a black baseball team,
>>consisting of players who would goof around on the field (like the
>>Harlem Globetrotters would later do with basketball), meanwhile
>>beating the crap out of the small-town local team. Some things I
>>remember was a catcher who sat in a rocking chair and a batter who ran
>>around the bases backwards. If baseball still had entertainment like
>>that, they wouldn't have to have contractions -- something Iassociate
>>with birth, not death.
>>
>>So -- besides exhibition baseball -- what else did the House of David
>>people do?
I recall reading the notes to the McGee album which gave a brief
history of the House of David and this wonderful song. HoD was
apparently one of the religious revivial groups started in
various rural areas around the turn of the last cenury. The
House of David, as I recall, started in upstate New York.
A few years back I was driving the back roads around the
Catskills in upstate NY with some friends who lived there, and
passed a dirt road with a sign with an arrow that said "House of
David". I whipped my head around and shouted "House of David
Blues! House of David Blues!". They looked at me in alarm and
suggested immediate sedation. Nonetheless, I was excited to make
the connection between the song and its place of origin.
As Lyle says, the HoD did these traveling baseball exhibitions
which would attract people to their revival meetings.
--- Neil Rossi
Joel Shimberg
Elizabeth Lofgren) wrote:
>So -- besides exhibition baseball -- what else did the House of David
>people do?
>
>Lyle
"The Israelite House of David was founded in 1903 by Benjamin and Mary
Purnell in Benton Harbor, Michigan. {It's a ] surviving American
[group] of Southcottians, an Adventist movement which flowered in
England throughout the nineteenth century. ... The Israelite House of
David purchased an additional 30 acres in Benton Harbor in 1907 on
which it built an amusement park.... The Israelite Hose of David holds
to the King James Version of the Bible.... It is organized comunally
according to Acts 2. Members of the group are celibates, vegetarians,
pacifists, and do not cut their hair."
from Odd Gods, ISBN 1-57392-842-9
This is a new book, and states that although the HoD once had 500
members, it now has only about 100.
Next Question?
Joel
Frank Scott
baseball teams, not a black group at all but a jewish group playing ball to
raise money for their religious association that was waiting for the arrival of
the savior and the reuniting of the twelve tribes of Israel. Gee, but ain't it
grand!
http://www.peppergame.com/
http://www.israelitehouseofdavid.org/index.html
From the Lester Levy Collection, alas with no sheet music scanned, lists:
Title: The House of David Blues.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: By Elmer Schoebel, Billy Meyers and Irving
Mills.
Publication: New York: Jack Mills, Inc., Music Publishers, 148-150 W. 46th
St., 1923.
Instrumentation: piano and voice
Form of Composition: strophic with chorus
First Line: A little story that I want to tell about a certain band that
you know well
First Line of Chorus: Gee! but ain't it grand to hear that band play the
"house of David Blues"
After a frustrating afternoon spent searching all over the web, I was not able
to find a source for the sheet music to this piece.
Other Sources listed by Ceolas:
Kuntz (Ragged But Right), 1987; pgs. 181-182. Ruth (Pioneer Western Folk
Tunes), 1948; No. 73, pg. 27. Folkways, "The
Red Clay Ramblers with Fiddlin' Al McCanless." Lowe Stokes - "Brandywine
Festival 1982."
HOUSE OF DAVID BLUES. American, Country Blues (2/4 time). G Major. Standard.
AB. Tennessee's Fiddlin' Arthur
Smith (d. 1971), along with his group the Dixieliners (later to become the
Delmore Brothers) recorded this old blues song in
1937. At the turn of the 20th century the House of David, a religious sect, was
perhaps better known as the sponsors of a
touring baseball team than for their spiritual tenets. The team was made up of
bearded acolytes. Lyrics to the melody go:
Gee, but ain't it grand, don't you hear that band,
Play those House of David Blues.
All the folk in town are gatherin' around
To see the funny thngs they do.
When ham was selling for a dollar a pound,
Eat so many rabbits, made me hop all around;
Gee, but ain't it grand, don't you hear that band,
Play those House of David Blues.
A check of Red Hot Jazz website does not confirm any recording of HoDB by Bix
Beiderbecke, however these three bands have recordings listed for that title,
(Bix played in none of these bands):
1. Chicago Blues Dance Orchestra
2. The Virginians
3. Original Memphis Five.
You can actually hear the Chicago Blues Dance Orch.'s recording, which has no
resemblance to the melody in the Arthur Smith recording.
Anyone interested in old jazz should check this site out:
http://www.redhotjazz.com/index.htm
Joseph Scott
from Arthur Smith, and he learned it from the 1931 Fletcher Henderson
recording, and Henderson learned it from one of the recordings of it
made by jazz bands in 1923, the year it was published by pro
songwriters.
Joseph Scott
James N. Stewart
baseball team are all the same entity? I always assumed that the house of
david referrd to was probably a bar somewhere. It is quite plausable that a
Fletcher Henderson tune may have made its way into the mountains and into
the hands of McGee and co. A comparison of the North Fork group and the old
jazz record (i.e. mp3) suggests a similarity that is beyond chance despite
an almost, but not quite complete, difference in the melodies. I can't, off
hand, think of another similar case.
"Frank Scott" <fws...@fast.net> wrote in message
news:3BED8751...@fast.net...
Lyle & Elizabeth Lofgren
>"the only thing I knew about the House of David was that it was a black
>baseball team". Check out this page on the House of David and their exhibition
>baseball teams, not a black group at all but a jewish group playing ball to
>raise money for their religious association that was waiting for the arrival of
>the savior and the reuniting of the twelve tribes of Israel. Gee, but ain't it
>grand!
>http://www.peppergame.com/
>http://www.israelitehouseofdavid.org/index.html
Thanks for the website info. I found from the peppergame site that
the Black House of David team had no association with the Israelite
one, but used the name for "promotional purposes." Us rubes watching
the Rush City baseball team get whomped by the House of David back in
the late 1940s were being scammed. Of course, we didn't know anything
about the Isrealite organization. Therefore -- is it false
advertising if you don't know what the falsehood refers to? It would
be like me purporting to be Rafe Stefanini to someone who'd never
heard of him.
Thanks again. But now, when I listen to the McGees doing House of
David Blues, I can no longer visualize a black exhibition baseball
team. I don't know what to think.
Also, I wasn't aware of the jazz versions, mentioned by other posters,
that were probably the source for the hillbilly versions. Roots
music, indeed.
Lyle.
Jerry Hagins
and again at Clifftop this year, he was with the North Fork Rounders at
least for the LP "Come Take A Trip" (which came out after "Gee Ain't It
Grand"). Some excellent playing and tune choices on both. I believe Chris
said they've all gone on to other projects, Chris with Boiled Buzzards for
awhile.
Jerry
In article <3bed265d...@news.mindspring.com>, mkov...@mindspring.com
wrote:
Judy Sacks
I bet, the Red Clay Ramblers. I don't have my records in front of me, but I do
remember Jim W singing that song.
Cheers,
Judy
Lyle & Elizabeth Lofgren wrote:
Lyle & Elizabeth Lofgren
>The much more likely source for the NF Ramblers (good guys and fine musicians) was,
>I bet, the Red Clay Ramblers. I don't have my records in front of me, but I do
>remember Jim W singing that song.
>Cheers,
>Judy
In that case, the Red Clay Ramblers would have learned the song from
either the McGee Brothers or Arthur Smith. I admit I don't have the
Red Clay Ramblers recording with that number on it.
Lyle
Kerry Blech
of their fiddlers over time, at Clifftop this past summer.
So he is still fiddling.
--Kerry
Kerry Blech
> heard of him.
I've often mistaken you for Rafe, Lyle.
Kerry
James N. Stewart
"Kerry Blech" <blec...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3BF13F85...@home.com...
> North Fork Rounders. I ran into Chris Wig, who was one
> of their fiddlers over time, at Clifftop this past summer.
> So he is still fiddling.
> --Kerry
Aopparently the line up on Gee Ain't it Grand is Galen Cummings,Gt.; Les
Powers, Bj; Bill Stevens, Fd; Craig Wales, Gt.; and Mike Hopper, Bs.
In regard to this record, Does anyone know anything about a track called,
The Hammerdog Song? It features such verses as:
Had a cat at our house,
She swallowed a ball of yarn,
And when the baby cats were born
They all had sweaters on.
I don't think I have heard the tune elsewhere. Anyway I don't recognize it
and I have no indexed reference.
David Sanderson
>
I know it from the old Folkways recording of Arthur Smith fiddling and
singing it, with the McGee's. As I recall, he's pretty clearly the
source in that context. I think the notes present the House of David as
definitely White.
--
David Sanderson
East Waterford ME