Favorite schottisches?
Paul M. Gifford
they're popular with Scandinavians and there is another new type of
schottische popular with the Country Line Dancing crowd, but I mean particular
tunes, like Rochester Schottische (D/A); Rustic Dance; Detroit Schottische;
Mountain Belle Schottische, etc., that old-time fiddlers play.
I think the Detroit Schottische, written and published by Adam Couse of
Detroit in 1851 or so, might be the origin of "Flop-Eared Mule." It's pretty
standard in Michigan fiddler's repertoires.
The Americans pronounce this "shottish;" Canadians say "shoteesh." Anybody
know how they say it in Great Britain----I think it might be like the Canadian
pronunciation.
Paul Gifford
Lynn Chirps
>What are some popular schottisches that people on this list know of? I know
>they're popular with Scandinavians and there is another new type of
>schottische popular with the Country Line Dancing crowd, but I mean particular
>tunes, like Rochester Schottische (D/A); Rustic Dance; Detroit Schottische;
>Mountain Belle Schottische, etc., that old-time fiddlers play.
>
>I think the Detroit Schottische, written and published by Adam Couse of
>Detroit in 1851 or so, might be the origin of "Flop-Eared Mule." It's pretty
>standard in Michigan fiddler's repertoires.
schottisches. Most had no particular name. Odie Griffith of Greenup, IL
played one called the Serpentine Schottische. Fletcher Fulk of Ingraham, IL
played the White Rose Schottische. His brother, Charlie, played some. Harvey
"Pappy" Taylor of Effingham, IL, Cliff Pulliam of Latona, IL, Everett Fulk of
Olney, IL, Howard Sims of Modesto, IL, and John Gibson of Noble, IL all played
them. Pappy had some named ones: Tickle-Toe & Butterfly. Howard Sims did
Crystal & Rochester. One that E. Fulk played is one on my Praire Dog tape
that I called Blazing Star. (I didn't have the notes that I have now.)
Jesse James Abbott of Toledo, IL (original source for The Rush & The Pepper)
played some also.
These guys were all around SE IL. The area had a lot of German settlers and
English also. Pappy used to play one at the Midway tavern outside of
Effingham that he called Herr Schmidt. The old folks there loved to dance to
it. It wasn't a straight schottische, it had some rhythym changes. Pappy
said it was a "slip schottische", which sounds like a joke to me.
Hope these ramblings are helpful!
Later,
Chirps Smith
Peter C. Gorman
giff...@lib.flint.umich.edu writes:
>What are some popular schottisches that people on this list know of? I know
>they're popular with Scandinavians and there is another new type of
There are several nice schottisches in the Christeson collection; my
favorite there is the Kelly Schottische (though I move it down to A
from Bb). The Ill-Mo Boys play a beautiful 3 part schottische on Fine
As Frog's Hair; I think they call it Charlie Paschia's (I'm sure the
spelling's off there).
PG
_______________________________
Peter C. Gorman
Automation Help Desk
Memorial Library
University of Wisconsin
pcgo...@facstaff.wisc.edu
Paul M. Gifford
>These guys were all around SE IL. The area had a lot of German settlers and
>English also. Pappy used to play one at the Midway tavern outside of
>Effingham that he called Herr Schmidt. The old folks there loved to dance to
>it. It wasn't a straight schottische, it had some rhythym changes. Pappy
>said it was a "slip schottische", which sounds like a joke to me.
>Hope these ramblings are helpful!
They are. The only Herr Schmidt I'm familiar with is not a schottische, but a
couple dance, done at some square dances in northern Michigan. I'm not sure
of its origins, but I've seen it on 1950s-era square dance records, which
seems to me like it might have been popularized in the early days of Western
Square Dancing, but I could be wrong. Half the tune is similar to the
"Mexican Hat Dance." Is this the same one?
Of course, one of the problems with the net when talking about tunes is that
you have to have titles. Too bad you can't just hum a tune and ask if anyone
knows it! I know the Crystal Schottische, which was recorded by Henry Ford's
Orchestra, but those other names are unfamiliar. They published tons of
schottisches in the 1850s, but I guess only a few hung around.
I gather that the schottische used to be popular all over the U.S. It's still
popular at square dances in Michigan, and I guess in Illinois and Texas. Also
Mexico and probably in a lot of parts of Europe still. But the Country Line
Dancing version just seems silly done to the music they do it to!
Paul Gifford
LJW114
>giff...@lib.flint.umich.edu writes:
>
>>What are some popular schottisches that people on this list know of? I
know
>
>>they're popular with Scandinavians and there is another new type of
>
>
How about The Balkan Hills Schottische from the Don Messer Anthology of
Favorite Tunes.
Larry
Charlie Possum
floor by playing a sch. at most any dance in rural MO especially in
the north and in german regions of the so-called Mo-Rhineland (the
wine country along the MO river in east and central MO).
Some good sch. were collected in RP Christeson's OT fiddlers
repertory. Also, I heard a lot of schottisches up near the
Nebraska line when I was younger.
Some of my favs are the Rochester, Hi-Lo, Rustic Dance (called the
"rusty dance" in some parts) and Tunes from Home as played by Bob
Walters.
Also, check Ira Ford's "Traditional Music in America" and E. F.
Adams "Favorite Barn Dances" for more Sch. Both books collections
by MO players.
Charlie Walden
7625...@compuserve.com
PS. Flop-eared mule makes a nice sch. as previously noted by
Paul.
Bill Richardson
> floor by playing a sch. at most any dance in rural MO
Charlie, do they actually do shottische dance sets?
thanks,
Bill Richardson
blacksburg virginia
Paul M. Gifford
>From: Charlie "Possum" Walden <7625...@CompuServe.COM>
>Subject: Re: Favorite schottisches?
>Date: 18 Nov 1995 21:15:12 GMT
>While they may not request such you can still get couples on the
>floor by playing a sch. at most any dance in rural MO especially in
>the north and in german regions of the so-called Mo-Rhineland (the
>wine country along the MO river in east and central MO).
I know Missouri has some heavily German areas (like around Washington, which
had a zither factory years ago), but is the old-time dance music of those
areas any different from the non-German areas?
The German areas in Michigan
(Saginaw & Washtenaw Counties) don't have anything different, at least from
what I've heard and seen. Helen Gross, of Saline, MI, whose father was also a
fiddler, played pretty much the same general repertoire as most other fiddlers
in the state; Pete Seba, of Ravenna, MI, son of German immigrants who came to
the U.S. about 1870 (he was born in 1883), said that the Germans of his
parents' generation liked a lot of waltzes, like "O du lieber Augustin," but
he and his generation took to square dancing. Paul Tyler knows more about
this than I, but apparently Marv Herzog, the accordion player of Frankenmuth,
MI, who does a lot of German shows around the Midwest, learned most of his
repertoire from standard sheet music. Since Frankenmuth, located in a solid
German area in Saginaw County, was a kind of tourist destination with a German
focus, they needed a guy in lederhosen to play accordion at one of the
restaurants. Herzog has, since the '60s, had dozens of albums and makes a
good living touring. However, I don't see his stuff as traditional.
Even though the schottische has a German name, I don't think of it as a German
dance (although I know that the Germans have a dance called the Rheinlander,
which is a schottische).
Paul Gifford
Fred Pribac
>What are some popular schottisches that people on this list know of? I know
>they're popular with Scandinavians and there is another new type of
>tunes, like Rochester Schottische (D/A); Rustic Dance; Detroit Schottische;
>Mountain Belle Schottische, etc., that old-time fiddlers play.
You want Schottische's? Come to Australia - along with varsoviena's, mazurkas
and polkas they are still "very" popular with traditional australian musicians
and dancers. We have more of 'em than you can poke a stick at.
You can stay at my place! :)
>The Americans pronounce this "shottish;" Canadians say "shoteesh." Anybody
>know how they say it in Great Britain----I think it might be like the Canadian
>pronunciation.
In Australia it's sho-teesh. My british friend's say it the same way, although
without the australian accent.
As for the US schottische's there's quite a few in that "Dance to the Fiddle
March to the Fife" - collection of tunes from Pennslyvania. And they're mostly
pretty good tunes.
ciaou,
fred
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| CRC Southern Hemisphere Meteorology | phone: 61 3 9905 9677 |
| Monash University, Wellington Road | fax: 61 3 9905 9689 |
| Clayton, VIC 3168, Australia | fr...@vortex.shm.monash.edu.au |
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Richardson
> German dance (although I know that the Germans have a dance called the
> Rheinlander, which is a schottische).
Paul, I think "schottische" originated as a translation of "scottish" into
whatever language the dance became famous under.
To all, I'm still wondering, when you say people do schottische's, what
dance sets are they actually doing?
thanks
Bill Richardson
blacksburg virginia
Steve Goldfield
Fred Pribac <fr...@vortex.shm.monash.edu.au> wrote:
#>>The Americans pronounce this "shottish;" Canadians say "shoteesh." Anybody
#>>know how they say it in Great Britain----I think it might be like the Canadian
#>>pronunciation.
#>
#>In Australia it's sho-teesh. My british friend's say it the same way, although
#>without the australian accent.
The Belgian hurdy gurdy player in Ad Vielle Que Pourra pronounces
it Scottish; I think he said that's how it's pronounced in France.
(That's also how it would be pronounced in Dutch if spelled
Schottisch, like the airport in Amsterdam, Schiphol, pronounced
like skiphole).
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Steve Goldfield :-{ {-: s...@coe.berkeley.edu
University of California at Berkeley Richmond Field Station
Lynn Chirps
>To all, I'm still wondering, when you say people do schottische's, what
>dance sets are they actually doing?
proceeding around the dance floor in a circle. Basically goes like so:
step, step, step, Hop step, step, step, Hop step, Hop, step, Hop, step, Hop
step, Hop. On the first part the couples are in sort of a promenade-type
posistion and on the step/hop parts there is quite often some kind of turning.
There are lots of variations and styles, but that is basically what's going on.
Hope that helps.
Happy Thanksgiving to all. Later, Chirps Smith
Penny Anderson
> Even though the schottische has a German name, I don't think of it as a German
> dance (although I know that the Germans have a dance called the Rheinlander,
> which is a schottische).
Now that the discussion has turned to generalities, I'm curious to know the
origins of the dance and its name. The French call it a "scottish", pronounced
just as you'd think but with a cute French accent. It is very popular, at least
with the bunch I danced with in the south. I learned several schottische tunes
from the French southern Alps, but we danced it to a variety of tunes from all
over, including I think Sweden. In the states I learned it as a rather stodgy
dance, but with the French we really rocked it, lots of syncopation, and I took a
few turns around the floor with a 16-year-old who I was halfway afraid was going
to fling me through a window. Great dancing!
There's a kind of brain-damaged version of the dance local to the village of
Barcelonette called L'autrichienne ("the Austrian"). As far as I know it is
danced to only one specific tune (of the same name). I don't know if the name
says anything about where the dance comes from though.
Penny
Paul Tyler
>
>Bill Richardson <bill...@caspian.ext.vt.edu> writes:
>
>>To all, I'm still wondering, when you say people do schottische's, what
>>dance sets are they actually doing?
>
>Howdy Bill! All the schotisches I've seen are couple dances, with everyone
>proceeding around the dance floor in a circle. Basically goes like so:
>step, step, step, Hop step, step, step, Hop step, Hop, step, Hop, step, Hop
>step, Hop. On the first part the couples are in sort of a promenade-type
>posistion and on the step/hop parts there is quite often some kind of turning.
I've mostly seen it danced independently by couples. But at the polka dances
(which also have square dancing) in my hometown, couples can join together in
moving sets in a kind of horse and carriage formationg. On the step-hops the
front couple splits and swings around behind to become the carriage. And on and
on. Another variation involves tunnelling backwards through the back couples
arch. This can be done with more than two couples in a set.
I don't know whether these tricks were done back in the old barn dance days or
if they are newer innovations introduced by polka gypsies or dance teachers.
Another unusual formation from my younger days involved lines of dancers with
their arms around each other dancing around the floor like spokes of a wheel.
There were no restrictions as to gender or number. That's how I learned to
polka as a kid. ("Roll out the barrel") Some people now refer to the old time
polka as schottische. And today at polka dances when a group of young machoized
male singles invade an all ages dance, they will generally form a
testosterine-heavy line like this. But hey, they're dancing and having a great
time.
This BTW is northern Indiana.
Roll on.
Paul Tyler
Paul M. Gifford
>From: pty...@wwa.com (Paul Tyler)
>Subject: Re: Favorite schottisches?
>Date: 22 Nov 1995 18:20:38 GMT
>I've mostly seen it danced independently by couples. But at the polka dances
>(which also have square dancing) in my hometown, couples can join together in
>moving sets in a kind of horse and carriage formationg. On the step-hops the
>front couple splits and swings around behind to become the carriage. And on and
>on. Another variation involves tunnelling backwards through the back couples
>arch. This can be done with more than two couples in a set.
>I don't know whether these tricks were done back in the old barn dance days or
>if they are newer innovations introduced by polka gypsies or dance teachers.
I'm familiar with the same variation you mention, and learned it at dances 20
years ago in Harbor Springs, MI. I don't think there had been any polka
gypsies or dance teachers in that neighborhood.
I remember asking, 25 years ago, an old-timer, Chet Parker, to describe what
a schottische was and he said a "slow polka." But the only polka I've seen
that looks like a schottische is a heel-and-toe polka, and the man I knew who
used to like to do that one died almost ten years ago.
BTW, I'm glad the schottische thread took off, even though the title "Favorite
schottisches?" is a bit silly.
One other comment: in an earlier post, I said that Canadians pronounced it
"shotteesh." I should have corrected that to "shottees." I guess Canadians
don't read these messages.
Paul Gifford
Bob Dalsemer
(Penny Anderson) wrote:
> Now that the discussion has turned to generalities, I'm curious to know the
> origins of the dance and its name.
To the best of my knowledge the schottische is of German origin, but
probably got its name because it was though that the music sounded
Scottish (dotted hornpipe or strathspey rhythm?). In any case it became
one of the favorite ballroom couple dances of the 19th century right
behind the waltz and the polka. And like any dance craze, it spread all
over Europe and the Americas and can still be found in the folk traditions
of many, many countries. I have seen schottishes danced at traditional
square dances in rural Maryland, Pennsylvania and West Virginia.
Bob
Fred Pribac
>>and polkas they are still "very" popular with traditional australian musicians
>>and dancers. We have more of 'em than you can poke a stick at.
>
>>You can stay at my place! :)
>
>on permanently, though I know it was popular in the '90s in some places. The
>old-time polka, or heel-and-toe polka (introduced in the 1840s) is pretty much
>dead, though I used to know a couple of people that danced it. The newer
>polka, from Poland & Czechoslovakia, is what is danced now. And the
>varsovienne, or "Put Your Little Foot," is still danced in some places.
>But I guess the quadrille in Australia died out?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Nope!
There are still regular people in some small towns running community
dances that include the occasional quadrille or lancers. That's quite apart
from the "folkies", who consciously work to preseverve the old colonial
dances. Getting dressed appropriately, putting on dance displays, organising
oldtime balls, etc, ... Some of us are working quite hard to try to bring
australian folk music and dance back to the fore here.
Public perception of traditional australian
folk music has been a little led astray by the recent popularity of the
so-called bush bands. These bands were basically an urban, commercial invention
of the 1970's. They played mainly irish tunes and borrowed dances from brittain
that were simple to teach to non-dancers. They were not a bad thing per se,
but few of the popular bushbands played tunes or dances actually collected
in australia. There is quite a bit of damage to undo now.
There is a good book by, huh, Shirley Adams (I think, or Andrews?) called
"Take your partners" covering colonial and victorian dancing in australia.
cioau,