Recitations
Tribe
if there was any tradition in early (1910s-1930s) country music of
performaces like this. Gospel? Church music? Talking Blues? Distant
cousins?
Thanks
Tribe
Lyle Lofgren
wrote:
The only thing that comes readily to mind is Red Henderson's
"Automobile Trip Through Alabama," which isn't exactly comparable.
It's much better, for one thing.
There were, of course, comic monologues without music background in
the more mainstream recordings, such as the "Uncle Josh ..." and
"Cohen ..." series. And Uncle Dave would recite a verse before
(although not during) playing. I would have thought that, since
sentimental poetry was very popular early in the century, someone
would have thought of reciting some to music. It was only in the
1940s, when sentimentality was on its way out, that there were a
bunch of them. Maybe I just never ran across any.
Lyle
Kerry Blech
Victor 21131 My First Bicycle Ride/ The Savingest Man On Earth
Victor 21244 Sleeping Late/ The Taffy Pulling Party
also:
Chris Bouchillon
Columbia 15213-D A Bull Fight In Mexico/ Chris Visits The Barber Shop
he also did a number of talking blues, but I don't have listings for
them.
and don't forget all of John Dilleshaw's monologues...
There were a lot of recordings of Church sermons, if you think
that is related.
All the above are from the 1920s.
There are more, but I don't have the time right now to look
stuff up.
-Kerry
Bill Dillof
"Kerry Blech" <Kerry...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DA6DAE2...@attbi.com...
Joel Shimberg
>What?!?! Have you forgotten Uncle Eck's "My First Bicycle Ride"???
>
>"Kerry Blech" <Kerry...@attbi.com> wrote in message
>news:3DA6DAE2...@attbi.com...
>> Eck Dunford recorded a bunch of recitations.
>> Victor 21131 My First Bicycle Ride....
Joel Shimberg
Joseph Scott
of comic recitations that usually aren't over what we'd ordinarily
consider "blues" music. Oddly enough.
Another kind of recitation in the '20s was the comic satire of the
incompetent or hypocritical preacher. These seem to have been pretty
popular. Even gospel groups sometimes recorded them. Oddly enough.
Peg Leg Sam's "Ode To Bad Bill" (recorded '70s) is interesting; it's a
spoken version of the Lee Brown, Jericho, standing on the corner
reading my father's will song, and Sam uses the word "toasting" in his
introduction to it. And it's spoken in much the same way '70s "rapper"
Lightnin' Rod spoke his stuff, which is not very unlike the approach
Lord Buckley took to his "raps." So... "rube" monologues, "toasts,"
"the dozens," beat poets -- it's all connected somewhat I think.
Also, the way Bert Williams spoke some of his material influenced a
wide variety of artists who admired Williams' records, such as Pearl
Bailey and Phil Harris.
This is mostly the comic side of recitations I'm talking about, but I
realize there's the whole other side to it, including Hank's Luke.
Joseph Scott
Bill Dillof
"Joel Shimberg" <Fiddl...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:3da723a2...@news.compuserve.com...
David Sanderson
Eck Dunford's vocalizations on these monologues are all wonderful. He
was continuing a long tradition of recorded monologues; and I'm not sure
that there aren't sources for at least some of the pieces he assembled
for his recordings, including the bicycle ride. Along with this we
should mention Ernest Stoneman's sketches, again a form that had existed
for a long time on records, adapted for hillbilly purposes; I have
always preferred them to the Skillit Lickers sketch recordings.
Descendents of this form include the popular "Sunday Evening with Seth
Parker" radio program in the 30's, the later "Snow Village Sketches"
radio shows, and Parker Fenelly on the Fred Allen radio show as Titus
Moody (these all base on Maine/New England dialect humor).
--
David Sanderson
East Waterford, Maine
David Sanderson
I continue to regard Cal Stewart's Uncle Josh monologues as the ancestor
of talking blues; listen to his rhythm and phrasing, add the guitar, and
you're awfully close.
The closest thing to antique rap I have is "Wal, I Swan", by Byron G.
Harlan, from the teens (words at
http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/pages/tiWALISWAN.html ), same
in-your-face doggerel feel to it. I don't think it's anywhere on the
Internet at the moment; I should get busy and put it on my Web page.
Tony Russell
Selman recorded a couple of hoary old recitation pieces in Atlanta
in '28, both as two-part discs: 'The Face on the Barroom Floor'
(OKeh 45249) and 'The Shooting of Dan McGrew' (unissued).
TR
----------
In article <101020022205239707%johnc...@earthlink.net>, Tribe
Bill Dillof
> I don't know if this counts, exactly, but a guy named Harold
> Selman recorded a couple of hoary old recitation pieces in Atlanta
> in '28, both as two-part discs: 'The Face on the Barroom Floor'
> (OKeh 45249) and 'The Shooting of Dan McGrew' (unissued).
>
> TR
The Face On the Barroom Floor recitation resurfaced years later in a
wonderful recording by Hank Snow. Had he heard Selman? Or was it
coincidence? Or were there other, intervening recordings?
Dillof
12-stringer
"Bill Dillof" <ex...@vgernet.net> wrote in message
news:uqhr1pp...@corp.supernews.com...
late 19th century narrative poem which was printed and reprinted repeatedly
and which even appears in an early 1900s schoolbook I have called "Poems
Teachers Ask For" -- which is comprised of school exhibition pieces:
narrative, sentimental, comic, Civil War, all of which were apparently PD at
that time. I wouldn't be surprised if Snow first learned it as a schoolboy
in the Maritimes. He was a terrific recitation artist ("Doc Brown Has Moved
Upstairs"), and I bet he earned his share of blue ribbons in grammar school.
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Tribe
> The Face On the Barroom Floor recitation resurfaced years later in a
> wonderful recording by Hank Snow. Had he heard Selman? Or was it
> coincidence? Or were there other, intervening recordings?
I don't know for a fact....but it's likely. The liner notes to "Hank
Williams (As Luke The Drifter): Beyond The Sunset" say: "In January
1950, T. Texas Tyler...had just issued two narrations, "The Colored
Child's Funeral" and "Beyond The Sunset."....The first Luke the Drifter
singel, "Beyond The Sunset"/"The Funeral," was rush-released to go
head-to-head with T. Texas Tyler's record...." Perhaps Snow did hear
it.
Tribe
Steven Rowe
<ex...@vgernet.net> writes:
>The Face On the Barroom Floor recitation resurfaced years later in a
>wonderful recording by Hank Snow. Had he heard Selman? Or was it
>coincidence? Or were there other, intervening recordings?
>
many folks have recited The Face On the Barroon Floor (albeit not on record)
--- any reason to think that Snow had heard anybody's else version?
I seem to recall the author of this poem was living in NYC in the 1910s....
sr
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Lyle Lofgren
wrote:
>Was listening to Hank William's Luke The Drifter cuts and was wondering
I'm going back to the original posting rather than as a reply to one
of the many other responses. To me, a true predecessor of a recitation
such as the "Should you go first and I remain ... " in "Beyond the
Sunset" should be a sentimental poem recited to a musical background,
perhaps (even more strictly) as an interlude to another song. Typical
Talking Blues and other recitations mentioned either don't have
musical accompaniment or are much less sentimental and more
sardonically humorous than these.
Given such a narrow definition, I can't think of recorded forebears
earlier than those serious late-1940s cowboys. I can still remember
the horrid treacly organ background to a record we had of "Beyond The
Sunset," when I was a kid (the record was mercifully dropped and
broken years ago). Of course, they had lots of successors.
An exception might be the Harold Selman recordings mentioned by Tony
Russell. I haven't heard those.
Lyle
12-stringer
"Lyle Lofgren" <lofg...@maroon.tc.umn.edu> wrote in message
news:3da98718....@news.umn.edu...
> On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:04:41 GMT, Tribe <johnc...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Was listening to Hank William's Luke The Drifter cuts and was wondering
> >if there was any tradition in early (1910s-1930s) country music of
> >performaces like this. Gospel? Church music? Talking Blues? Distant
> >cousins?
> >
>
> I'm going back to the original posting rather than as a reply to one
> of the many other responses. To me, a true predecessor of a recitation
> such as the "Should you go first and I remain ... " in "Beyond the
> Sunset" should be a sentimental poem recited to a musical background,
> perhaps (even more strictly) as an interlude to another song. Typical
> Talking Blues and other recitations mentioned either don't have
> musical accompaniment or are much less sentimental and more
> sardonically humorous than these.
Worthy point! The "heart" content is what, to me, has always characterized a
recitation. I don't consider "Ten Little Bottles," "Hot Rod Lincoln,"
"Alice's Restaurant," or "Born in Hard Luck" to be recitations, despite
spoken content over musical accompaniment, and I don't consider comic
monologues or skits with no music or just interstitial music (Uncle Josh,
Bascom Lunsford's "Stump Speech," the rural dramas of the 20s) to be such
either. Would you count "Deck of Cards" and "History Repeats Itself" or the
one (Jimmy Dean?) used to do about examining the contents of a dead
relative's wallet as recitations, given that they are not poems but prose
narratives? Otherwise they fit the criteria pretty well. Red Sovine's work
doesn't rhyme either but his records are pretty much the ne plus ultra of
recitations. So that should be "sentimental poem _or story_ recited to a
musical background."
> Given such a narrow definition, I can't think of recorded forebears
> earlier than those serious late-1940s cowboys. I can still remember
> the horrid treacly organ background to a record we had of "Beyond The
> Sunset," when I was a kid (the record was mercifully dropped and
> broken years ago). Of course, they had lots of successors.
Earliest that I can think of is the spoken stanza on "My Mary" by Milton
Brown and the Brownies, which fits fairly well. This from c1935.
>
> An exception might be the Harold Selman recordings mentioned by Tony
> Russell. I haven't heard those.
>
I'm curious about Pm 3157, "Too Many Parties" b/w "Spark of Love Still
Burning" and Pm 3216, "A Plea to Young Wives" b/w "Dedication to Mother,"
both by Frank Welling. I only know these from notes I made on a Pm numerical
(a while back; the notes are in cuneiform),but I've wondered about their
content. I presume "Too Many Parties" is the same piece Hank Williams did 20
years later, with a spoken interlude IIRC. The second set of titles look as
if they could be recited, not sung, pieces. The only Welling material I've
heard does not bode well for its being in a true recitation vein, however,
as the instrumentation was too limited.
Other ancient notes of Goebel Reeves RTs, from the 40s, show several titles
which, again, look as if they might be recitations, but now we're getting
close to "those serious late-40s cowboys." My exposure to Reeves has been
very narrow -- I think I've heard exactly 2 sides, one of which was his
setting-to-music of Kipling's poem "I Learned About Women from Them" -- but
I wonder if he was doing recitation material in the 30s or 40s. From what I
know of him, this is an artist from whom it might be anticipated. Did he
ever work with backup musicians in the 30s or was all of his output solo?
RT
> Lyle
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kaiser
grandfather's favorites.
Dave Gardner
"Tony Russell" <tonyr...@bluetone.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aoago5$1hd$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk...
Peter Feldmann
Lofgren) wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:04:41 GMT, Tribe <johnc...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Was listening to Hank William's Luke The Drifter cuts and was wondering
>>if there was any tradition in early (1910s-1930s) country music of
>>performaces like this. Gospel? Church music? Talking Blues? Distant
>>cousins?
>>
>
>I'm going back to the original posting rather than as a reply to one
>of the many other responses. To me, a true predecessor of a recitation
>such as the "Should you go first and I remain ... " in "Beyond the
>Sunset" should be a sentimental poem recited to a musical background,
How about The Ilead and The Oddssy - Homer?
>Given such a narrow definition, I can't think of recorded forebears
>earlier than those serious late-1940s cowboys.
"Lasca" - William S. Hart
__Peter Feldmann
----------------------------
http://www.bluegrasswest.com
----------------------------
Joel Shimberg
>How about The Ilead and The Oddssy - Homer?
>__Peter Feldmann
I recall reading a suggestion that the epics (including the Iliad)
were sung rather than recited. As I recall, the argument was based on
the idea that it's easier to remember long texts if you sing rather
than speak them.
Joel
d.d.t
It's not really "early," (the timespan you site), and it was never on
an old commercially recorded 78, but you simply HAVE to check out "A
Talk On The World" from the Mike Seeger compilation "Close To Home."
The guy doing this recitation is a regular James Joyce reciting his
own personal Finnegans Wake.
David Sanderson
> Circulation of this piece doesn't derive from records -- it's a well known
> late 19th century narrative poem which was printed and reprinted repeatedly
> and which even appears in an early 1900s schoolbook I have called "Poems
> Teachers Ask For" -- which is comprised of school exhibition pieces:
> narrative, sentimental, comic, Civil War, all of which were apparently PD at
> that time. I wouldn't be surprised if Snow first learned it as a schoolboy
> in the Maritimes. He was a terrific recitation artist ("Doc Brown Has Moved
> Upstairs"), and I bet he earned his share of blue ribbons in grammar school.
>
"We spoke a piece" was the tagline for every account of the last day of
school ca. 1900 and before. Recitations - public speaking - were an
integral part of the curriculum, in a time when the spoken word still
mattered (my editorial sneer). And it was usual for School Committee
members and maybe a Selectman or two to show up, to check up on the
students and the teacher. Around here, the annual town report included
a School Committee report that was polite but clear about what they
thought of the teachers, good or bad.
Students who went on to local academies got a dose of formal rhetoric;
and spoken pieces were popular enough that there were periodicals
devoted to such selections; we have several left over from my
grandfather's younger days. And of course such things ended up on
recordings quite early; I have a 78 of Edgar Guest doing a couple of his
poems, for example. So spoken pieces were very much a common currency
in the early part of the century, and one should expect that anyone who
grew up during those years would be familiar with such recitations.
Scott Prouty
> I recall reading a suggestion that the epics (including the Iliad)
> were sung rather than recited. As I recall, the argument was based on
> the idea that it's easier to remember long texts if you sing rather
> than speak them.
Check out Alfred B. Lord's seminal work on this subject, "The Singer
of Tales". It was reissued a couple of years ago with audio & visual
supplementation of his recordings originally made in the 30s/40s, I
think. It's truly an awe inspiring work. Here's a link to the
publisher's blurb:
http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/LORSIY.html
Scott
Jack Aldrich
"Declamation" contests, in which each student in 5th through 8th grade
learned a recitation and presented it at a contest. The contest was a
day long event (there were only 12 of us in my class, 24 in my sister's
- one year behind me, and 8 in the class behind that, so it didn't take
too long). It was supposed to prepare us for public speaking.
Tony Russell
proposed some 50-60 years ago: that the Homeric epics had
typological parallels in long epic poems sung until relatively
recent times in, I think, the Balkans, where bards commonly held
in their memory vast historical epics on a Homeric scale. The
hypothesis was treated with respect by the classical scholarly
establishment and also had considerable influence in
ethnomusicological circles.
TR
----------
In article <3dac861f...@news.compuserve.com>,
David Sanderson
>
> What Joel may be remembering is what a scholar named Albert Lord
> proposed some 50-60 years ago: that the Homeric epics had
> typological parallels in long epic poems sung until relatively
> recent times in, I think, the Balkans, where bards commonly held
> in their memory vast historical epics on a Homeric scale. The
> hypothesis was treated with respect by the classical scholarly
> establishment and also had considerable influence in
> ethnomusicological circles.
>
> TR
Same applies to Beowulf, which seems clearly to have been performed with
harp accompaniment; there may even be someone around who has a show
trying to recreate such a performance, a task that is either easy or
impossible since we don't really know anything about it and one is
forced to act based on theories and speculation.
A basic part of this view of traditional texts is the "oral formulaic"
nature of them; like the floating verses we hear in lyric songs
throughout the music we listen to, the idea is that there was a
standardized set of verbal building blocks that could be used to compose
and recompose on the fly, providing a basis for the recited narrative,
which would also partake of the creativity of the individual bard. Same
as settings of fiddle tunes, in other words, give or take. The theory
created considerable unhappiness amongst the scholars who preferred
Homer et al. to have been entirely original, and I don't know if the
arguments were ever settled (or do scholars ever actually settle these
arguments?). The thing that's persuasive to me is the evidence of
common characteristics throughout traditional poetry and music (at least
in the Western European tradition most of us occupy); that you can look
at the tunes and songs we listen to from a (more or less) oral formulaic
perspective argues that there are indeed basic threads that run through
it all, going back a very long time.
kaiser
and incorportated into the work of Gregory Nagy, who is presently the Earl
Scruggs of classics.
Dave Gardner
David Sanderson
>
> Lord's theory (building on Milman Parry's earlier work) is now cononical,
> and incorportated into the work of Gregory Nagy, who is presently the Earl
> Scruggs of classics.
>
> Dave Gardner
A three-finger typist, then?
Bill Dillof
> Same applies to Beowulf, which seems clearly to have been performed with
> harp accompaniment; there may even be someone around who has a show
> trying to recreate such a performance, a task that is either easy or
> impossible since we don't really know anything about it and one is
> forced to act based on theories and speculation.
Go to http://www.oddsbodkin.com/. This guy is incredible - a classical
story-teller (Does the Odyssey, etc.) who accompanies himself on harp or
guitar.
>