Who and what are these fiddlers and tunes?
The Martins
Appalachian sqware dance. I have a book called "Kentucky Square Dances" by
Ida Levin, printed in 1928. In it she lists tunes that "are particularly
well liked by some of the most able fiddlers." Many of the names are
familiar, like "Martha Campbell" and "Snowbird on the Ash Bank" and
"Durang's Hornpipe", but check out these:
Javy Boy
Candy Girl
Louisburg Blues
Louisville Breakdown
Going Over the Falls
Swing Old Daisy
White Chicken (great band name!)
Arkansas Bells
Platter
Brown Girls
Midnight
Wild Goose
The Widder
Hell in Texas
The Wood Chuck
Anybody know tunes by these names? Are they on available recordings?
Levin, of the Recreation Council in Louisville, Kentucky, also
acknowledges the aid of several fiddlers: J.H. Aubrey, J.A. Darnell, W.H.
Elmore, Dallas Erwin, J.T. Stallings and J.L. Stephens. I'm assuming these
were all Kentucky fiddlers who played for dances. Recognize any of these
names?
Bill Martin
Dmarts
Midnight was recorded by Bruce Greene and Jim Woodward (Rounder Ky cd)
there are lotsa "Wild Gooses".
Some of those tune names sound like they might be other tunes...
Arkansas Belles=Alabama Gals or
the Woodchuck=Indian ate the woodchuck.
I don't recognize any of those fiddlers names.
dm
Oldtime1
fiddle contest, one of the regional ones when he was trying to revive fiddling
because he was troubled by black and Jewish influences in vaudeville and other
popular entertainment. Henry helped modernize the nation and, as Uncle Dave put
it, "shook more hell out of people than any evangelist did" (or words to that
effect) but was troubled by show biz modernization.And he was terribly
retrograde in the human diversity game. He was far more beneficial to the
nation and less a self promoter than Ross Perot, but nearly as motor-mouthed on
subjects dimly understood. I seem to recall some of the other players named
here as contestants and I'd bet that your lady was at that contest, put
together by the Louisville Ford dealership a few years earlier. There's a great
collection of photography from that contest at the Eckstrom Library in
Louisville; the best photography I've seen from any event of that time. The
tune, "Going Over The Falls," may be a commemorative for the daredevil Sam
Patch who briefly caught the attention of the nation by jumping over several
high falls in the east in the first part of the 1800s. He was killed, I
believe, in a jump over the Passaic (sp?) Falls in New Jersey. I've heard
"Jumping Over The Falls" and suspect it might be the same. Sam Patch the
racehorse came later and named for Sam the daredevil. Joe Wilson
Kerry Blech
>
> Candy Girl
> Louisburg Blues
The above two are one-half the total recorded output of
John "Uncle Bunt" Stephens, who claimed to have won
the Henry ford national fiddle contest, but in fact
never even took first in any of the regional preliminaries.
And apparently the finals never took place in Dearborn.
Bunt was a fine fiddler nonetheless.
> Arkansas Bells
I wonder if this is a regional renaming of the tune that
Mississippi fiddler W. Ernest Claunch recorded for
Herbert Halpert in 1939 for teh Library of Congress Archive
of Folk Song as "Texas Belle" (Bell? Belles?)?
> Midnight
This is attributed to the African American fiddler from
Kentucky, Jim Booker, who recorded in the '20s with the
otherwise all-European-American group, "Taylor's
Kentucky Boys." Dave Murray mentioned the Jim Woodward
interpretation on the Rounder Kentucky fiddle anthology,
and I think Woodward states in those notes (or elsewhere)
that he learned it from Booker.
> Wild Goose
Per Dave Murray, yup, lots of versions. Many used harmonics
to indicate goose honking (and we'll leave it at that....).
> The Widder
A tune that was pretty common through much of Kentucky was
"The Widow Haley." I have a couple versions of it on 78s,
can't recall who now. Maybe the Walter Family? Arthur
Smith reputedly played it over the radio (several fiddling
informants reported learning it in that manner), though
I don't believe he ever waxed it on 78. I wonder if
that tune is wedespread because of Smith's popularity
or if he picked it up from some regional fiddler and
merely popularized and helped disseminate it?
> Hell in Texas
this on e rings a big beel in my head (or is that the head
cold?), but I can't put my finger on it. I'll report more
later.
> J.H. Aubrey, J.A. Darnell, W.H.
> Elmore, Dallas Erwin, J.T. Stallings and J.L. Stephens. I'm assuming these
> were all Kentucky fiddlers who played for dances. Recognize any of these
> names?
>
as Joe Wilson pointed out, they were contestants in the Louisville
regional of Henry Ford's fiddle contest (1926 or 1927?). The last
name is Uncle Bunt Stephens. I have some of those photos that Joe
mentioned in his post, including ones of Stephens and Stallings.
Rafe Stephanini told me he has a lot of those photos too.
Regards,
kerry
--
Blec...@WolfeNet.com
"When you get above the clouds, you can do just as you choose."
- The Rector Trio, Asheville, NC 1930
Paul Tyler
> The above two are one-half the total recorded output of
> John "Uncle Bunt" Stephens, who claimed to have won
> the Henry ford national fiddle contest, but in fact
> never even took first in any of the regional preliminaries.
> And apparently the finals never took place in Dearborn.
As I understand it, the finals took place. However, there was no competition
involved.
> > J.H. Aubrey, J.A. Darnell, W.H.
> > Elmore, Dallas Erwin, J.T. Stallings and J.L. Stephens. I'm assuming these
> > were all Kentucky fiddlers who played for dances. Recognize any of these
> > names?
The Hoosier in me would be remiss if I didn't mention that W.H. Elmore may have
been born in Kentucky, but he was a barber in West Baden, Indiana when he won
the regional contest at Louisville over Mr. Stephens. Too bad he never recorded
anything.
Paul "You can take the boy out of Indiana" Tyler
Kerry Blech
> > And apparently the finals never took place in Dearborn.
>
> As I understand it, the finals took place. However, there was no competition
> involved.
Sir, present your documentation <g>. We'll have to bring Gifford in here
again
to present what he dug up in the Henry Ford archives (or search the
newsgroup
archives). I pretty sure that he found no evidence of any finals.
Besides,
how does one have the finals of a fiddle contest with no competition? do
mean
the regional finalists came to Dearborn to play for old Henry? In any
case,
there is no evidence -- other than his own sayso -- that Bunt actually
played for Henry, if I recall this correctly.
> The Hoosier in me would be remiss if I didn't mention that W.H. Elmore may have
> been born in Kentucky, but he was a barber in West Baden, Indiana when he won
> the regional contest at Louisville over Mr. Stephens. Too bad he never recorded
> anything.
>
Also, Bunt Stephens, of course, was from Tennessee, not Kentucky. There
is a
nice article about the Louisville regional contest in an old issue of
the
Journal of country Music, including quality reprints of many of the
photos
taken of the fiddlers competing there. I recall a couple other entrants
being
from Indiana. I'll have to go home tonight and dig out that issue.
Paul, have you recovered yet from all the partying?
Later,
Peter C. Gorman
R.P. Christeson recording. It's one of those tunes that sounds
straightforward, but when you try to play it it gets away from you
completely.
PG
_______________________________
Peter C. Gorman
University of Wisconsin
General Library System
Automation Services
pcgo...@facstaff.wisc.edu
(608) 265-5291
Susan Sterngold
A_A
(o o)
/| /\_/\
( ( / U \ AA
\ \ / | || | __(oo)
\ \ | || | (___\/
\___(_)(_) [[ [[
Susan Sterngold and the girls
Corey, Cleo and Isis
please reply to banj...@unforgettable.com
> Sir, present your documentation <g>. We'll have to bring Gifford in here
> > The Hoosier in me would be remiss if I didn't mention that W.H. Elmore may have
> > been born in Kentucky, but he was a barber in West Baden, Indiana when he won
> > the regional contest at Louisville over Mr. Stephens. Too bad he never recorded
> > anything.
but what color barber was he?? Is this the answer to the mystery of
"yellow barber"??? :)
Paul Tyler
> Sir, present your documentation <g>. We'll have to bring Gifford in here again
> to present what he dug up in the Henry Ford archives (or search the newsgroup
> archives). I pretty sure that he found no evidence of any finals. Besides,
> how does one have the finals of a fiddle contest with no competition? do
> mean the regional finalists came to Dearborn to play for old Henry? In any
> case, there is no evidence -- other than his own sayso -- that Bunt actually
> played for Henry, if I recall this correctly.
You nailed it. My documentation is Paul Gifford. I don't EVER doubt him 'cause
he knows his stuff.> The "finalists" did make a trip to Dearborn. I find it
hard to believe they wouldn't have played for Henry when they were there. He'd
been making headlines for bringing the likes of Jep Bisbee, Jesse Martin, and
Mellie Dunham to play for him. Henry was deep into his initial dance madness at
the time. Perhaps he took them down to the ballroom he had set up in the
engineering building, brought in a few executives and had Ben Lovett call a few
quadrille changes. Can you imagine a first change danced to Candy Girl? But
then we have no documentation for what they did there.
> Paul, have you recovered yet from all the partying?
I'm ready for the next round.
Paul
Paul Mitchell
> A tune that was pretty common through much of Kentucky was
> "The Widow Haley." I have a couple versions of it on 78s,
> can't recall who now. Maybe the Walter Family? Arthur
> Smith reputedly played it over the radio (several fiddling
> informants reported learning it in that manner), though
> I don't believe he ever waxed it on 78. I wonder if
> that tune is wedespread because of Smith's popularity
> or if he picked it up from some regional fiddler and
> merely popularized and helped disseminate it?
Doesn't John Salyer fiddle something called the Daemon Widder, (or
something similar)? Basically a tune close to Big Scioty, and We'll All
Go To Heaven When the Devil Goes Blind.
> > Hell in Texas
>
> this on e rings a big beel in my head (or is that the head
> cold?), but I can't put my finger on it. I'll report more
> later.
I think Hell in Texas appears in Christeson's Old Time Fiddlers Rep.,
attributesd to Bill Driver.
Paul
==============================================================================
Paul Mitchell
email: pmit...@email.unc.edu
phone: (919) 962-9778
office: I have an office, room 28, Phillips Hall
life: It appears I have one of these, as well...
==============================================================================
Kerry Blech
> There is a
> nice article about the Louisville regional contest in an old issue of
> the Journal of country Music, including quality reprints of many of the
> photos taken of the fiddlers competing there. I recall a couple other entrants
> being from Indiana. I'll have to go home tonight and dig out that issue.
Jim Nelson asked me for my documentation :>).
The Journal of Country Music, Vol. XII, No. 3, 1989, pp. 37-45. The
article and
photo essay is called "Fiddles & Fords -- Photographs from Louisville's
Caulfield & Shook studio." Text by Gus Meade. There are photos of Uncle
Jimmy
Thompson (Martha, TN), Homer Ryan (Highland Park, KY), JP "Cooney"
Purdue
(Tompkinsville, KY), Marshall Clairborne (Westmoreland, TN), W.H. Elmore
(West Baden, IN), J.T. stallings (Samuels, KY), Bunt Stephens
(Tullahoma, TN),
Andy Palmer (Shelbyville, KY), Blind Joe Mangrum (Paducah, KY), J.A.
Darnell
(Adair Co., KY), Dallas Erwin (Henry Co. KY), J.H. Aubrey (Hodgenville,
KY),
and a number of unidentified fiddlers.
Gus Meade also discusses the fiddle contest craze of the mid-1920s. He
describes
how Mellie Dunham, age 72 from Norway Maine, in October 1925 won first
place
in the fiddle contest at Lewiston Maine's "Pageant of Progress Fair."
Henry Ford
then invited Dunham to play for him in Dearborn Michigan. Dunham
parlayed this
invitation into a performance tour. A follow-on All-New England contest
was
staged in Providence, Rhode Island in January 1926, with the offer that
the
winner would get an opportunity to challenge Dunham for the New England
championship. this contest was won by Joe Shippee, though he never
received
such an opportunity. (Steve Green has an as-yet unpublished article
describing
this contest in great detail, hopefully to be published sometime soon;
Paul
Wells assembled and annotated a fine anthology of older New England
fiddling
as an LP and booklet set for JEMF and describes these events as well).
Contests proliferated throughout the North American continent in the
wake of
these events. In January 1926, the Ford Motor Company's district
headquarters
in Louisville, KY announced its intention to stage a series of fiddle
competitions throughout 111 counties in Tennessee, Kentucky, and
southern
Indiana, which would serve as preliminaries to regional playoffs in
nashville and Louisville, which in turn would culminate in a contest in
Louisville featuring the winners from Tennessee, Kentucky, and Indiana.
Meade notes that the Louisville playoff featured the winners of 72
different contest (well below the announced 111). Meade was able to
identify
and authenticate 65 of the 72 first round contests through newpaper
accounts.
Some of the participants in Louisville were runners-up or also-rans, so
that
lowers the number of contests a bit, as well.
The Tennessee contest attracted 30,000 spectators, held in the Ryman
auditorium.
First went to Uncle Jimmy thompson, second to Marshall Clairborne (who
only
had one arm), third to Bunt Stephens.
Kentucky finalists probably were: JP Purdue (Tompkinsville, KY), James
Aubrey
(Hodgenville, KY), Frank Hodges (Nolin, KY), John Stallings (Samuels,
KY),
Dallas Erwin (Henry Co., KY), and Blind Joe Mangrum (Paducah).
Indiana regional winners, who competed at Louisville, were: Lawrence
Shafer
(Marengo, IN), Allen Warner (Nobb, IN), Sam Miller (Salem, IN),
Blashford
Songer (Huntingburg, IN), Joe Summerville (Scottburg, IN), and W.H.
Elmore, mentioned above.
William Henry Elmore, the Hoosier, was the winner of the Louisville
playoff, winning a Ford touring car and a free trip to Detroit to
compete
against several other state champions. Elmore was originally from
Texas County, Missouri (oh man! now we're going to hear from Nelson
again!!!).
Bunt Stephens took second in this playoff, receiving $50 in gold and a
free trip
to Detroit. Marshall Clairborne garnered third, worth a free trip to
Detroit.
JP Purdue took fourth place.
Meade writes:
"The top three finalists then went on to Detroit, presumably to
contend
against winners from Michigan, Ohio, and other states. No record appears
in the
Detroit papers concerning this event, but according to reports in
several
Tennessee newpapers, Bunt Stephens was the winner of this contest, which
included the gift of a Lincoln automobile and a recording contract with
Columbia. The event took place around February 15-16. The participants
remained about a month in Detroit where they were entertained by Henry
Ford."
The Ford Archives, Acc. 285, Box 465, examined by Paul Gifford, states
merely
that the four won trips to Detroit to play for Henry Ford. Gifford also
reports: "The Chicago Radio Digest for Feb. 3, 1926 says: 'Bunt
Stephens, world's
champion old-time fiddler, who won the blue ribbon at the recent contest
held
by Henry Ford in Detroit...'"
More from Paul G.:
"[Ccharles] Wolfe quotes a Nashville Banner story of Feb. 15, 1926, that
said that
Stephens's wife had come into Tullahoma for her weekly visit, and she
said
that Ford had presented Bunt with a Lincoln, $1000 in money, a
broadcloth suit
of clothes, and entertained him as a guest for a week. Wolfe says that
later
Uncle Bunt talked Ford into giving him a Ford instead of the Lincoln,
whereupon he purchased a Ford and pocketed the difference (all of this
is
dubious, as will be seen). Wolfe also says he played on WSM first on
Feb. 28,
1926, and that his touring act included a clog dance done by his wife."
...and continuing:
"The French Lick (IN) Herald, Feb. 19, 1926, says:
William H. Elmore, of West Baden, who won the coveted title of the
"Champion
Old Time Fiddler of Dixie" at the Brown Theatre in Louisville, a few
weeks
ago, was the guest of Henry Ford at Detroit Tuesday and Wednesday of
last
week. Lewis Bedster, local Ford dealer, accompanied him. While there,
they
were conducted through the immense Ford plant, in company with several
Ford
dealers and old fiddlers...On Wednesday night a banquet was given at the
Book-Cadillac Hotel for the entire party. Mr. Elmore...was highly
honored by
the auto king. Immediately following his introduction to Ford, Mr.
Elmore
inquired if there was to be a contest. Ford looked at all the old
champion's
medals, laughed and said, "No, no contest. You have won enough." So
there
was no contest but all the old fiddlers played their different
selections.
The champion was allowed the privilege of playing on a genuine
Stradivarius,
valued at $6500.00, belonging to Mr. Ford. Mr. Elmore was born in the
Ozark
Mountains of Missouri in 1865 and has been fiddling for more than 50
years...Ford is having an artificial arm made for Mr. Claiborne."
So it seems apparent that there was no competition in Detroit,
thus Bunt Stephens claims to have won, and his subsequent boasting
was done as self-promotion. If you want to read more about Paul
Gifford's
research and his results and observations, go to Dejanews
(http://www.dejanews.com) and go to the power search. Put "Henry Ford"
in the top Box, type rec.music.country.old-time in the forum box
and enter giff...@lib.flint.umich.edu in the author box and click on
the "find" box. Then go to the January 20, 1997 entries for
" Re: Uncle Bunt & Ford's #1/2" and "Re: Uncle Bunt & Ford's #2/2."
Whew!
To obtain copies of the photographs of the fiddlers in the University of
Louisville's collection, contact Photographic Archives, Ekstrom Library,
University of Louisville, Louisville, KY 40292. Phone:(502) 588-6752
[information current as of 1989!]
regards,
Dmarts
something similar)? Basically a tune close to Big Scioty, and We'll All
Go To Heaven When the Devil Goes Blind. <<<<<<<
it's basically a Hell Among the Yearlings sorta thing.
dave
Paul Mitchell
Right you are, Dave. Actually, I was wondering if Hell in Texas was a
corruption of Day's Hell and Sissors ("really a frolic tune..").
What's the difference between a frolic and a square dance tune?
Paul
Joel
(Dmarts) wrote:
>>>>>>Doesn't John Salyer fiddle something called the Daemon Widder, (or
>something similar)? Basically a tune close to Big Scioty, and We'll All
>Go To Heaven When the Devil Goes Blind. <<<<<<<
>You're thinkin of his "Kentucky Winder". Damon's winder was recorded by JW Day,
>it's basically a Hell Among the Yearlings sorta thing.
>dave
I wonder what folks who post here about Porter Wagoner and Tammy Winette
think about threads like this.
Joel Shimberg
--
(Joel)shim...@poboxes.com
Insanity is hereditary.
You get it from your kids.
Kerry Blech
>
>
> What's the difference between a frolic and a square dance tune?
>
sounds like it could be a dissertation subject.
In some circles, some (Joe & Odell Thompson) might say that a
frolic is a house dance in the Black community while a square
dance is what the White folks would do.
Another interpretation might be that in southern set dancing,
probably very few were done in square sets. Different regions
most likely had different names for this social dancing
phenomenon. Wasn't it Cecil sharp who called some of the
kentucky sets, "running sets?" This could be in the form
of a hundred people or two or three couples. A frolic
probably is a name for at least one kind of such a dance scene.
Up in New England, a lot of those things were called
"kitchen junkets." My grandmother (originally from Quebec,
but most of her life in various places in Upstate NY --
Glens Falls, when and where my father was born) called them
"kitchen dances." What she described (her older brothers
fiddled and called figures) is very similar to what Joe
Thompson has taught as his "house frolic" scenario. A lot
of the figures differ, though some are the same or similar,
but I am certain the dance style is quite different, as
was the music played.
But the difference between a frolic tune and a square dance tune?
I don't know. Maybe nothing. Maybe one needs a violin and the
other needs a fiddle?
Later,
Gail Gillespie
: Paul Mitchell wrote:
: >
: >
: > What's the difference between a frolic and a square dance tune?
: >
: sounds like it could be a dissertation subject.
: In some circles, some (Joe & Odell Thompson) might say that a
: frolic is a house dance in the Black community while a square
: dance is what the White folks would do.
FWIW, I think I remember hearing that "frolic" comes from the German
"froelich" (sp?). Since there were lots of Germans in the South, who moved
into the Piedmont from Pa. down the Valley of Virginia, this may make some
sort of sense in a melting pot sort of way. There's also the African
American house-party, as Kerry mentions, in the Piedmont that Joe
Thompson calls a "frolic," though I'm of the impression that his is an
older term. I don't believe that blues house parties of a later
period were called "frolics," though there was certainly dancing at these
parties.
-GG
Cleoma
FWIW, I think I remember hearing that "frolic" comes from the German
"froelich" (sp?). Since there were lots of Germans in the South, who moved
into the Piedmont from Pa. down the Valley of Virginia, this may make some
sort of sense in a melting pot sort of way. There's also the African
American house-party, as Kerry mentions, in the Piedmont that Joe
Thompson calls a "frolic," though I'm of the impression that his is an
older term. I don't believe that blues house parties of a later
period were called "frolics," though there was certainly dancing at these
parties.
-GG
So -- a frolic would also then be a "freilach" which, in Klezmer music is
usually described as a "lively dance tune".
Suzy T.
Paul Tyler
David Lynch
> Kerry Blech wrote:
> > There is a
> > nice article about the Louisville regional contest in an old issue of
> > the Journal of country Music, including quality reprints of many of the
> > photos taken of the fiddlers competing there. I recall a couple other
entrants
> > being from Indiana. I'll have to go home tonight and dig out that issue.
>
> Jim Nelson asked me for my documentation :>).
> The Journal of Country Music, Vol. XII, No. 3, 1989, pp. 37-45. The
> article and
> photo essay is called "Fiddles & Fords -- Photographs from Louisville's
> Caulfield & Shook studio."
I have reproduced some of those photos on the web, for anyone interested.
They're on Uncle Bunt Stephens' page on the Old Time Fiddler's Hall of
Fame.
www.oldtimemusic.com/fiddlershof.html
--
- David Lynch
dly...@mindspring.com
Check out the Old Time Music Home Page
http://www.oldtimemusic.com
Fiddling will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no fiddling.
Peter C. Gorman
<Pine.GSO.3.95L.98102...@sunny.isis.unc.edu>
Paul Mitchell <pmit...@email.unc.edu> writes:
> Right you are, Dave. Actually, I was wondering if Hell in Texas was a
> corruption of Day's Hell and Sissors ("really a frolic tune..").
>
I don't hear much similarity in the two tunes, if Day's Hell and
Scissors is the one (in cross tuning) Bruce Greene plays.
Dmarts
Scissors is the one (in cross tuning) Bruce Greene plays.<<<<<<
Bruce plays Days version, he plays it in A but tuned ADae. Bruce said he'd
never heard another version of it.
dave