Earliest born recorded fiddler #1
Paul M. Gifford
A while back I posted a question concerning the earliest-born fiddler to be
commercially recorded. I've been interested in this for a while, since at one
time I tried to verify rumors of a recording of Henry Thorne (1841-1928), a
Sault Ste. Marie, MI, fiddler and Civil War veteran. Charles Wolfe once wrote
an article (?in _Devil's Box_) on this subject, and he named Uncle Jimmy
Thompson (born 1848) as the earliest born fiddler. Since I knew of two born
earlier than that, I figured there must be others. Here are the results. If
anyone has suggestions for other possibilities, I'd be interested in hearing
of them. The Scottish fiddler J. Scott Skinner, who began his recording
career in 1905, was born a week later than Bisbee.
JASPER "JEP" BISBEE (born July 29, 1843, Allegany County, NY, died 1935,
Ludington, MI). Son of Alanson and Mary C. (Bagley) Bisbee, the family moved
in 1858 to a farm in Campbell Township, Ionia County, Michigan, at which time
he began to play the fiddle. In the 1860s, he spent three years traveling
with a troupe giving "public entertainments." In 1870, he located in Paris,
Michigan, where he made boots and shoes. In the 1880s, he was a grocer and
druggist and after 1900, worked as a painter, but during this period was a
musician and music teacher (he apparently could read music) and operated a
dance hall, playing with his children for dances. Visited by Henry Ford and
Thomas Edison in August 1923 while on their annual camping trip, Edison asked
him to go to New Jersey to record, and in November Ford provided his private
railcar for their trip. Following the publicity, he was in constant demand to
play at dances around the state.
9259 Money Musk, with variations Ed 51381
9260 Girl I Left Behind Me Medley Ed 51381
9261 College Hornpipe Ed 51382
9262 McDonald's Reel Ed 51278, 4916
9263 Devil's Dream Ed 51382
9264 Opera Reel, with calls Ed 51278, 4912
West Orange, NJ, Nov. 1923
Beulah Bisbee Schuler, piano
"COLONEL" JOHN A. PATTEE (born June 5, 1844, Huron, Wayne County, Michigan,
died Nov. 15, 1924, Monroe County, Michigan). Parents came from Ohio; he
started playing the fiddle at seventeen. Served in the "Iron Brigade" as a
private at Gettysburg. About 1880, operated a hotel in Dundee, MI. In 1918,
led a vaudeville troupe called the "Old Soldier Fiddlers."
81976 Old Catville Quadrille Col 231-D
81977 Old Money Musk Quadrille Col 231-D
81978 Virginia Reel unissued
81979 Old Zip Coon unissued
New York, NY, Sept. 6, 1924
unknown piano
HENRY CLAY GILLILAND (born March 11, 1845, Jasper County, Missouri, died 1924,
Altus, Oklahoma). Son of Joseph Gilliland, of Irish descent. The family
moved in 1851 to Independence, MO, and in 1853 to near Sherman, TX, in 1854 to
Dallas County, TX, and then to Parker County. In 1861, one of Henry's older
brothers enlisted in the Confederate army, leaving him with a fiddle, which he
began practicing. He served in a Confederate unit from 1863 to 1865 and
participated in a massacre of Comanches in 1869. During this time, he was in
demand at balls. In later years, he participated in fiddlers' contests with
such people as Moses J. Bonner, Sam P. Stafford, Jim Gunn, Jesse Roberts, and
Polk Harris. Henry felt that the greatest fiddler was Mat Brown, who died at
Spur, TX, on June 18, 1915. He served as district clerk of Parker County from
1888 to 1890. In 1901, he sold his land in Texas and moved to Altus,
Oklahoma, where he was city clerk for several years (see Martrue Hutcheson
Greenwood, _The Loving Irish: the Gillilands_ [Bluff Dale, TX: Holy Oakes
Farm, 1970], pp. 28-29; the author cites _Texas and Texans_, 1916, 5: 2432).
In 1922, he went to New York City (not Atlanta, as has been written) to attend
a convention of the United Confederate Veterans, following which he went with
Eck Robertson to record for Victor.
With A. C. (Eck) Robertson, violin:
Arkansaw Traveler Vi 18956B
Turkey in the Straw Vi 19149A
New York, July 1, 1922
Paul Gifford
Oldtime1
What a wonderful contribution! Thank you, Paul. May I append a small
correction? No full scale Confederate reunions were ever held in New York
City. That would be about as likely as Beelzebub succeeding Oral Roberts
as Stud Duck of Liberty University, or Old Scratch becoming a yes-man
guest on the Pat Robertson motor-mouth show or (last one) the trustees of
Bob Jones University supporting a woman's right to choose. Eck and Henry
were at the Confederate reunion in Richmond in 1922 and were well received
by the old soldiers. They noticed that New York was relatively close
(about the same distance from Richmond by rail as Fort Worth is from San
Antonio) and decided to self-invite themselves to the Victor Recording
Company. In a later advertisement for their recordings, a Victor flack
recalled ther coming to the company door, dressed in plainsmen's garb.
Those of us fortunate enough to meet Eck during his brief come-back during
the folk scare will testify that he was not shy and laid back, tugging at
his forelock. Joe Wilson
Peter Shenkin
In article <4ucvp7$3...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Oldtime1 <oldt...@aol.com> wrote:
>What a wonderful contribution! Thank you, Paul. May I append a small
>correction? No full scale Confederate reunions were ever held in New York
>City.
I certainly don't know otherwise.
>...That would be about as likely as Beelzebub succeeding Oral Roberts
>as Stud Duck of Liberty University, or Old Scratch becoming a yes-man
>guest on the Pat Robertson motor-mouth show or (last one) the trustees of
>Bob Jones University supporting a woman's right to choose....
Here's one more: how about "Bill Monroe Sings the Cole Porter
Songbook"? :-)
Anyway, at the outbreak of the Civil War, there were large anti-war
demonstrations in New York. People rioted in the streets to keep from
being drafted. There was considerate pro-South sentiment in NYC.
Even during and after the revolutionary war, NY was considered a
bastion of conservative sentiment. Unlike New England, which was
proud of its system of small, independent land-holdings, NY had
developed along the lines of the "patroon" system introduced by
the Dutch: large land-holders employing unentitled "mechanics".
There was great resistance to giving "mechanics" any rights at
all -- particularly the right to own land. Some of this is
described (if I remember correctly) in Edmond Wilson's book,
"Upstate" -- which turns out to be a long way from the Finland
Station.
Thus, though there may have been no Confederate reunions in NYC,
the idea that there might have been is not as unlikely as it sounds.
-P.
--
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* Peter S. Shenkin, Chemistry, Columbia U., 3000 Broadway, Mail Code 3153,*
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MacroModel WWW page: http://www.cc.columbia.edu/cu/chemistry/mmod/mmod.html
Paul M. Gifford
May I append a small
>correction? No full scale Confederate reunions were ever held in New York
>City. That would be about as likely as Beelzebub succeeding Oral Roberts
>as Stud Duck of Liberty University, or Old Scratch becoming a yes-man
>guest on the Pat Robertson motor-mouth show or (last one) the trustees of
>Bob Jones University supporting a woman's right to choose. Eck and Henry
>were at the Confederate reunion in Richmond in 1922 and were well received
>by the old soldiers.
Thanks for the correction, Joe. I agree that holding a Rebel convention
in NYC would be strange. In my occasional guise as reference librarian
I once checked the New York TImes Index for 1922 for this convention and
thought it must have been held in Gotham. Checking it again, I see that
it refers to stories of the convention June 21-24, 1922, but doesn't say where
it was, so you must be right.
I found another source which referred to the "famous Henry Gilliland." I
don't know if making a record in those days made one famous, but there should
be lots more information on him (and Bonner, and the fiddle contests
mentioned) in Texas and Oklahoma waiting to be uncovered. I found a WPA
interview with someone who related that he got good enough on the fiddle that
he played at dances with Gilliland. The "Fiddlers of Parker County" post here
talked about two fiddlers playing for dances in this period there----I wonder
if that was standard, and if they both played lead, or one lead and the other
second?
A supposed record of Henry Thorne, a local celebrity in the mixed-blood
Indian community around Sault Ste. Marie, MI, born in 1841, was held about 20
yearsago by his grandson Bill Thorne, a country DJ there, but he said it was
buriedamong thousands of records. I couldn't force him to verify it, but one
or two other local old-timers told me about it separately, so there's a slight
possibility such was made. However, it doesn't seem to have been a commercial
recording, in any case.
Paul
john burke
This was a great post.
I was very interested in the mention of Matt Brown. Benny told me Matt Brown:
1) wrote the tunes Lime Rock and Done Gone
2) Hired Bob Wills to play fiddle in his travelling show
Pretty awesome accomplishments and hiring policies, I think.
Is there any other information about Matt Brown, his show, or Wills'
recollections of him?
JB
Kerry, Sheila, & Mirabelle Blech
In article <gifford_p.1...@lib.flint.umich.edu> Paul M.
Gifford wrote:
> I found a WPA
>interview with someone who related that he got
> good enough on the fiddle that
>he played at dances with Gilliland. The "Fiddlers
> of Parker County" post here
>talked about two fiddlers playing for
> dances in this period there----I wonder
>if that was standard, and if they both played lead,
> or one lead and the other second?
I think it quite likely that one fiddle played lead with the other
seconding. For some written, eyewitness accounts of such
happenings, read Marian Thede"s "The Fiddle Book" (Oak
Publications) for descriptions of Oklahoma dances and the memoirs
of Kenner Casteel Kartchner "Frontier Fiddler" (University of
Arizona Press, edited by Larry Shumway) for accounts of similar
activities in Arizona. Kartchner often played with a transplanted
Mississippi fiddler, Claude Youngblood.
Regards,
Kerry
****** ******** ******** ***** *****
Kerry Blech Sheila Klauschie Blech Mirabelle Rose Blech
Seattle, Washington, U.S.A.
"The old tunes are the best tunes" -- Luther Davis
Paul M. Gifford
The name Matt Brown rang a bell, but I couldn't associate it with anything, so
thanks for the info. If he died in 1915, as must be the case, since the
Gilliland sketch was originally published in 1916, Bob Wills must have been
knee high to a grasshopper. The date of death is a lead for someone to follow
up on, if only to look for an obituary in a Texas newspaper.
Paul Gifford