pop and serialism/12 tone
Stephanie Franklin
Firstly I want to introduce myself. I am new to the newgroups and am
Steph from Australia.
I write Christian pop and have also studied music composition for 2
years. Mainly things such as John Cage, serialism, sound scapes etc.
Now I want to conbine different techniques in my songs. For example,
pop chords and a 12-tone row. Has anyone done this? How did you go
about it? And do you have samples of music I can hear?
Also, if performed live, how did your audience react?
Thanks for any help/suggestions.
Steph
Samuel Vriezen
Franklin) wrote:
What do you mean by 'pop chords'? If you just mean triads and seventh
chords etc, you might want to examine the music of Alban Berg for an
example of how you can reference tonal stuff in a dodecaphonic
context.
And Dutch composer Peter Schat wrote some very relevant pieces in the
early 70s which use post-serial techniques with a very 'poppy' sound;
they are his best pieces, I think, quite unique. 'Thema' (Theme) is
one, and 'To You' is another. Both include a nice battery of loud
instruments, brass, electric guitars and all; in To You you also get
man-sized spinning tops.
The main point to ask yourself: what is it you're trying to do,
assimilating pop harmony in 12-tone music?
--
Samuel
http://concerten.free.fr/home.html
Today everyone's so jaded. The whole postmodern stance is a dead end in terms of
art and its transformational qualities. I think people used to go to art for visions.
- Elliott Sharp
David Cleary
is of high quality, you might want to check out the band Sonic
Youth. The albums "Sister," "EVOL," and "Daydream Nation" are
probably the best ones they've released. Captain Beefheart's
"Trout Mask Replica" is also worth a listen in this regard.
Given that you're into Christian rock, I'm not vouching for
the lyrics here, though if memory serves they're not
"offensive" in a bad-words or controversial subjects way.
I may be wrong on this, though--if so, I'd appreciate
a correction from a fellow poster here.
Hope this helps.
Dave
In rec.music.compose Stephanie Franklin <sm...@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
: Hi everyone,
Kevin Dooley
"Stephanie Franklin" <sm...@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:32243ed5.02071...@posting.google.com...
Although it's jazz, not pop, you might want to find recordings of
Bill Evans playing his TTT (which stands for Twelve Tone Tune)
and TTTT (Twelve Tone Tune Two). There's a wonderful recording
of TTTT on his Live in Tokyo disk. Both of these tunes use rows
to create the melody, which the bass and piano play in unison the
first time through. Then Evans starts harmonizing the row using normal
jazz chords, then they improvise on the harmonic structure for a while
before playing the row again. In some recordings you can hear Evans
using sections of the row in his improvisation as well.
It's fiendishly clever stuff, really. But it's not pop, and it's not proper
serialism.
K
Garth Wallace
I believe the British band Henry Cow did things like that. You might try
listening to some Rock In Opposition bands like Univers Zero or Present,
or zeuhl groups like Magma.
--
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David Olen Baird
http://www.symsonic.org/). Although the instrumentation is not pop,
the tune is definitely pop (well, pop inspired, anyway). For the "b"
section, I morph the tune into a 12 tone series, then do a development
using pure serial technique, then recapitulate the diatonic material
just before a short coda and then fine.
You could do something serial in the bridge of a standard pop song
form.
Another way to combine 12 tone and diatonic (or as you call them "pop"
chords is to use a 12 tone row as a bass line, then harmonize on top
of that. I did something similar in a later movement of the Suite,
but as I recall, I harmonized with chords by fourths, which is
definitely not popish.
On 18 Jul 2002 23:04:13 -0700, sm...@iprimus.com.au (Stephanie
Franklin) wrote:
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http://www.tfs.net/~davbaird/
David Olen Baird
wrote:
>Somehow, I can't see serial Christian pop going over. It's always going to
>sound a little "off". Though I think it would be fun to see Amy Grant sing
>a tone row.
Which brings up the question - has any pop music been 12 tone based?
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Dan Schmidt
| Which brings up the question - has any pop music been 12 tone based?
I dunno if it really counts, but I have a song whose main riff
consists of power chords in the following sequence:
Eb D
A G#
Eb D
A G#
E F
B Bb
F# G
C C#
Dan
David Olen Baird
davidrose...@gmail.com
Wikipedia reports that he used dodecaphonism which is not correct.
If you read portoguese, please check this article about:
http://musica.ufmg.br/permusi/port/numeros/01/num01_cap_01.pdf
elemen...@gmail.com
As you studied music in the area of composition, you may have noticed that the composer's ability to hear the musical genre he uses is of utmost importance. Wether it be 'pop' 12-tone, serial, CPP or Religious music, the real music comes from inside the composer. When you learn to hear what you are asking about, your questions will be answered so my advice is to work with your chosen genres and concentrate on ear training.
When a composer does not hear the music in his head, he is using chance music techniques to sort out random ideas he stumbles upon. When you ask what others have already done and what the audience thought of it, you are telling me that you don't hear the technique yourself and you will be working on chance and editing out what you don't like. When using CPP (traditional cycle of 5ths Harmony) you have centuries of resources to help you express emotions in your music. Bach is one of the most prolific and emotional composer of religious music. When he started, functional music was as foreign to his peers' ears as Schoenberg is to yours. But he learned to hear functional harmony and only then was he able to create music that inspired religious feeling.
In short, learn the medium if you want to use it. You have to put YOUR religious feelings in the medium so you have to know and understand the medium before you can put that deep emotional feeling in your music. If you don't learn the system you are doing the equivalent of trying to verbally describe your feelings in Chinese when you don't speak anything but English.
Start by studying and listening and trying things to see how YOU express feelings to yourself with the music you uncover. It might take more than 2 years.
If you are serious about learning, contact me and I may be able to help.
LJS
<element7music.com>
Ps, I haven't seen this group in years, if you respond to this post and I do not reply, I did not receive notice of your reply. If that happens, go to my site and contact me there.