- Don Juan Is that Don Wahn or Don Jewen as BBC says it?
Bill Carroll
Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC presenter
calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the UK?
Thanks very much.
bill carroll, toronto
Paul Ilechko
How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
The Republican Party - building a grassroots organization, one golf
course at a time.
Dr.Matt
Paul Ilechko <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote:
>Bill Carroll wrote:
>
>> The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
>> Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC presenter
>> calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the UK?
>> Thanks very much.
>> bill carroll, toronto
>>
>>
>How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
>--
Strictly speaking, the J in Spanish is a glottal fricative, slightly
softer than the CH in Bach, but about equal to the sound at the
beginning of Chanuka.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
"Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria."
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Thomas Wood
"Paul Ilechko" <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote in message
news:2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Bill Carroll wrote:
>
> > The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
> > Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC
presenter
> > calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the
UK?
> > Thanks very much.
> > bill carroll, toronto
> >
> >
> How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
> --
In fact "Don Jew-one" is the conventional British pronunciation. The rhymes
in Byron's poem prove it:
"I want a hero, an uncommon want,
When every year and month sends forth a new one,
Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
The age discovers he is not the true one.
Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
They tradtionally said "Don Quicks-ut" for Don Quixote, too.
And they pronounce the t in "valet."
Tom Wood
J. Teske
reason. Many years ago there was a play, or more properly a reading by
four reknown British actors and actresses (I don't remember exactly
who was in it but they were of the Olivier, Richardson, Ritchard,
Gielgud rank) called "Don Juan in Hell." I think that may be by Shaw.
They pronounced it "Jewan".
OTOH, I once read a British-authored history of Russia in which
Ivan Grozny (Ivan the Terrible) was called "John the Dread." It may
actually be a more accurate translation. This may be an Oxbridge
conceit.
Jon Teske (colonialist)
Jim
in the US can get to the Spanish pronunciation. To further confound people,
we usually say Dahn Hwahn - I guest half right is the best we can do.
Never forget, the Brits call the car Jagyou-ar.
Jim
"Bill Carroll" <xxxx...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:oy_Gc.39588$JG5.8...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Peter T. Daniels
>
> "Paul Ilechko" <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote in message
> news:2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de...
> > Bill Carroll wrote:
> >
> > > The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
> > > Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC
> presenter
> > > calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the
> UK?
> > > Thanks very much.
> > > bill carroll, toronto
> > >
> > >
> > How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
> > --
>
> In fact "Don Jew-one" is the conventional British pronunciation. The rhymes
> in Byron's poem prove it:
>
> "I want a hero, an uncommon want,
> When every year and month sends forth a new one,
> Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
> The age discovers he is not the true one.
> Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
> I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
Do you have the reference? I heard this from a high school English
teacher but never managed to find it in the epic.
> They tradtionally said "Don Quicks-ut" for Don Quixote, too.
>
> And they pronounce the t in "valet."
>
> Tom Wood
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Literary Brits do call Don Juan, Don Jewan. I'm not sure of the
> reason. Many years ago there was a play, or more properly a reading by
> four reknown British actors and actresses (I don't remember exactly
> who was in it but they were of the Olivier, Richardson, Ritchard,
> Gielgud rank) called "Don Juan in Hell." I think that may be by Shaw.
> They pronounced it "Jewan".
"Don Juan in Hell" is a short excerpt from Shaw's *Man and Superman* (it
runs only about an hour).
Owain Sutton
We do?
Frederick Shorts
Since its Spanish, the "j" sounds like a "h". The closest pronunciation is
hwan or huan with the "h" voiced and one syllable.
--
Freddie D. 'fag' Shorts
I'm loud and I'm proud. I'm gay and I like it that way!
Another proud buttplug owner. Honk if yer horny!
I support Gay Pride! The Ramrod rocks! Kerry sux!
Wanna hire me for web site development? I'm way under-employed!
Contact me by email (mailto:cyphe...@nyc.rr.com) or mail me at
FS Newssite Inc.
101 West 23rd St. Suite 2237, New York, NY, 10011
On second thoughts, don't bother. Just sign me up for subscriptions.
I like to steal copyrighted material.
Check out my current web sites -
http://www.orwellian.org
http://www.miscstuff.org
http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/
I'm really proud of this -
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http://www.plugger.info
http://www.pluggers.com/daily/
Hay! My kinda place - http://www.gaylordhotels.com/
Richard Schultz
: In article <2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de>,
:>> The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
:>> Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC presenter
:>> calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the UK?
:>How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
: Strictly speaking, the J in Spanish is a glottal fricative, slightly
: softer than the CH in Bach, but about equal to the sound at the
: beginning of Chanuka.
Strictly speaking, in the poem by Byron, the name is pretty clearly
supposed to be pronounced "Jew-un." Presumably that's what the BBC
announcer had in mind.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell bad."
Thomas Wood
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40EC98...@worldnet.att.net...
> Thomas Wood wrote:
> > In fact "Don Jew-one" is the conventional British pronunciation. The
rhymes
> > in Byron's poem prove it:
> >
> > "I want a hero, an uncommon want,
> > When every year and month sends forth a new one,
> > Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
> > The age discovers he is not the true one.
> > Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
> > I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
>
> Do you have the reference? I heard this from a high school English
> teacher but never managed to find it in the epic.
That's the opening stanza of Lord Byron's poem "Don Juan."
Mr. Sutton: regarding the pronunciation of "valet," see
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0185.html
Tom Wood
Michael Lockhart
> > "Paul Ilechko" <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote in message
> > news:2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de...
> > > Bill Carroll wrote:
> > > > The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's
Don
> > > > Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC
> > presenter
> > > > calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in
the
> > UK?
> > > > Thanks very much.
> > > > bill carroll, toronto
> > > How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
rhymes
> > in Byron's poem prove it:
> >
> > "I want a hero, an uncommon want,
> > When every year and month sends forth a new one,
> > Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
> > The age discovers he is not the true one.
> > Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
> > I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
>
> Do you have the reference? I heard this from a high school English
> teacher but never managed to find it in the epic.
Are you serious? Not very assiduous, are you? :-)
Canto the First, lines 1-6.
Where did you look??
Michael
Robert Marshall
>
> And they pronounce the t in "valet."
>
varlet! (no we don't)
Robert
--
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
Thomas Muething
> Since its Spanish, the "j" sounds like a "h". The closest pronunciation is
> hwan or huan with the "h" voiced and one syllable.
Yep. Or, like "Don Wahn" spoken by a Scotsman.
Thomas
Peter T. Daniels
At random. Happily, we were never required to read the thing.
Keith Edgerley
"Thomas Muething" <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:ccipgk$vph$04$1...@news.t-online.com...
Jeremy Paxmanpronounced it it Jewan only last week or the week before on
University Challenge. It has been so pronounced by educated English-speakers
for centuries.
I do know how Spanish is pronounced; and in another life I used to read El
Pais nearly every day. But I think giving the name a Spanish pronunciation
is pedantic, but otherwise harmless.
--
Keith Edgerley
owe war sint verswunden
alliu miniu jar
Dr.Matt
I cannot figure out why he isn't just called Sir John, then. The
Italians have no trouble calling him Don Giovanni...
Keith Edgerley
"Dr.Matt" <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:zwdHc.65$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> In article <40ed63e6$1...@news.bluewin.ch>,
> Keith Edgerley <edger...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Jeremy Paxmanpronounced it it Jewan only last week or the week before
on
> >University Challenge. It has been so pronounced by educated
English-speakers
> >for centuries.
> >
> >I do know how Spanish is pronounced; and in another life I used to read
El
> >Pais nearly every day. But I think giving the name a Spanish
pronunciation
> >is pedantic, but otherwise harmless.
> >
> I cannot figure out why he isn't just called Sir John, then. The
> Italians have no trouble calling him Don Giovanni...
>
True. I suppose it's just one of those things.
OTOH it might be to avoid confusion with Don John of Austria.
Dr.Matt
Keith Edgerley <edger...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>
>"Dr.Matt" <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
>news:zwdHc.65$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
>> In article <40ed63e6$1...@news.bluewin.ch>,
>> Keith Edgerley <edger...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > >Jeremy Paxmanpronounced it it Jewan only last week or the week before
>on
>> >University Challenge. It has been so pronounced by educated
>English-speakers
>> >for centuries.
>> >
>> >I do know how Spanish is pronounced; and in another life I used to read
>El
>> >Pais nearly every day. But I think giving the name a Spanish
>pronunciation
>> >is pedantic, but otherwise harmless.
>> >
>
>> I cannot figure out why he isn't just called Sir John, then. The
>> Italians have no trouble calling him Don Giovanni...
>>
>
>True. I suppose it's just one of those things.
>OTOH it might be to avoid confusion with Don John of Austria.
Maybe we'd better check the catalog of 1003 Sir Johns.
Jerry Kohl
> In article <40ed6e59$1...@news.bluewin.ch>,
> Keith Edgerley <edger...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
> >
> >
> >"Dr.Matt" <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
> >news:zwdHc.65$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> >> In article <40ed63e6$1...@news.bluewin.ch>,
> >> Keith Edgerley <edger...@bluewin.ch> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > >Jeremy Paxmanpronounced it it Jewan only last week or the week before
> >on
> >> >University Challenge. It has been so pronounced by educated
> >English-speakers
> >> >for centuries.
> >> >
> >> >I do know how Spanish is pronounced; and in another life I used to read
> >El
> >> >Pais nearly every day. But I think giving the name a Spanish
> >pronunciation
> >> >is pedantic, but otherwise harmless.
> >> >
> >
> >> I cannot figure out why he isn't just called Sir John, then. The
> >> Italians have no trouble calling him Don Giovanni...
> >>
> >
> >True. I suppose it's just one of those things.
> >OTOH it might be to avoid confusion with Don John of Austria.
>
> Maybe we'd better check the catalog of 1003 Sir Johns.
While we're about it, shouldn't we be sending a stern reprimand to
all those opera singers who address the character in Carmen as
"Don Zhozay"? (Not to mention putting the acCENT on the wrong
sylLABle with the minor character of Moralčs.)
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Jerry Kohl
> In article <SO%Gc.58$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu>, Dr.Matt <fie...@tetris.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
> : In article <2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de>,
> : Paul Ilechko <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote:
> :>Bill Carroll wrote:
>
> :>> The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
> :>> Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC presenter
> :>> calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the UK?
>
> :>How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
>
> : Strictly speaking, the J in Spanish is a glottal fricative, slightly
> : softer than the CH in Bach, but about equal to the sound at the
> : beginning of Chanuka.
>
> Strictly speaking, in the poem by Byron, the name is pretty clearly
> supposed to be pronounced "Jew-un." Presumably that's what the BBC
> announcer had in mind.
More to the point, given that it was Strauss's Don Juan that was under
discussion: wouldn't it be more correct to use the German pronunciation
than the Spanish? If, on the other hand, we had been talking about
Mozart's opera, wasn't the libretto based on Moličre's play?
<http://www.sensible.it/personal/resio/donjuan/moliere/index.html>
In that case, wouldn't it be more suitable to jettison the Italian
"Don Giovanni" for the French "Dom Juan", and pronounce it
accordingly?
Dr.Matt
If you're using Zh like >|<, then indeed it's odd but not entirely
incorrect for French!
Jerry Kohl
(I assume that, with the three characters you used you meant to represent
the Cyrillic character that stands for French J). Yes, that is my point exactly.
Those ignorant French have been mangling these names for years--it's
about time someone set them straight ;-)
On a similar subject, Matt, you live near a large American city with a
French name--how come none of the ignorant louts in your neck of
the woods pronounce it correctly: Duh-TRWAH?
Dr.Matt
From my childhood in ill annoy (Illinois):
Kay-row (Cairo); Mar sales (Marseilles); Lions (Lyons); Luh Sayal (La Salle);
etc.
Jerry Kohl
Yepper! Place-name "mispronunciations" abound. There is a town just south
of Seattle called Des Moines (Dez Moynz), but in Iowa the identical spelling
gets you "duh moyn"--both completely wrong, of course. And never mind
personal names of well-known historical figures--we can't even *spell*
Aristoteles or Platon correctly, let alone pronounce them!
Alan Watkins
> In article <2l3ei0F...@uni-berlin.de>,
> Paul Ilechko <noSPaM_pile...@patmedia.net> wrote:
> >Bill Carroll wrote:
> >
> >> The BBC's Discovering Music archives includes a program on Strauss's Don
> >> Juan. In Toronto we've always pronounced Juan as Wahn. The BBC presenter
> >> calls the man Don Jewen. Is that how the lad is commonly called in the UK?
> >> Thanks very much.
> >> bill carroll, toronto
> >>
> >>
> >How embarrassing for the idiot presenter. The Beeb used to have class.
> >--
>
> Strictly speaking, the J in Spanish is a glottal fricative, slightly
> softer than the CH in Bach, but about equal to the sound at the
> beginning of Chanuka.
Strictly speaking it is timpani plus three percussion.
1. Triangle
2. Glockenspiel
3. Cymbals
Cannot say about a glottal fricative, only about the notes and the
rests. I have no idea how people pronounce it but I doubt it will
make any difference to the orchestra playing it.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
Thomas Wood
"Robert Marshall" <sp...@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:m18ydvr...@chezmarshall.freeserve.co.uk...
> On Wed, 07 Jul 2004, Thomas Wood wrote:
>
> >
> > And they pronounce the t in "valet."
> >
>
> varlet! (no we don't)
Well, the folks at American Heritage Dictionary think you do -- at least
"traditionally."
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C007/0185.html
And the OED lists it as the more common pronunciation.
Tom Wood
Sacqueboutier
meaderings on 7/7/04 7:45 PM:
The Brits are notorious for Anglicizing foreign names on the air. Try
Claude Debussy (rhymes with Gary Busey).
Don
Frederick Shorts
A Scotsman? Youz mean as in Don Wan? Wan, of course, being the English word
pronounced "won" (as opposed to won which is pronounced wan; man, English is a
strange language!). Nice rhyme butt I'm sure that if Shaw could pronounce ghoti
as fish, then he could easily spell Tholen as kook.
>
> Thomas
Robert Marshall
Wouldn't dispute that it's more 'common'
I see that varlet and valet unsurprisingly share a derivation
but some of us pronounce that end rather differently
Michael Haslam
>
> In fact "Don Jew-one" is the conventional British pronunciation. The rhymes
> in Byron's poem prove it:
>
> "I want a hero, an uncommon want,
> When every year and month sends forth a new one,
> Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
> The age discovers he is not the true one.
> Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
> I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
Jewen to rhyme with newen, I'd guess from the above. I've only dipped
into the Byron piece but I think it is extremely dangerous to use any of
it to prove anything about pronunciation; Byron was not even consistent
within one stanza, IIRC.
>
> They tradtionally said "Don Quicks-ut" for Don Quixote, too.
I've always tried to say that, but normally go for Ki-ho-ti.
>
> And they pronounce the t in "valet."
The upper classes do, and they are the people that have them! Everyone
else doesn't, and they haven't, although they sometimes are!
MJHaslam
Keith Edgerley
"Michael Haslam" <innat...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1ggq93q.10b9o8zv8lvqtN%innat...@btinternet.com...
> Thomas Wood <woo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > In fact "Don Jew-one" is the conventional British pronunciation. The
rhymes
> > in Byron's poem prove it:
> >
> > "I want a hero, an uncommon want,
> > When every year and month sends forth a new one,
> > Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,
> > The age discovers he is not the true one.
> > Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;
> > I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan."
>
> Jewen to rhyme with newen, I'd guess from the above. I've only dipped
> into the Byron piece but I think it is extremely dangerous to use any of
> it to prove anything about pronunciation; Byron was not even consistent
> within one stanza, IIRC.
> >
> > They tradtionally said "Don Quicks-ut" for Don Quixote, too.
>
> I've always tried to say that, but normally go for Ki-ho-ti.
> >
> > And they pronounce the t in "valet."
And in fillet as in tenderloin.
> The upper classes do, and they are the people that have them! Everyone
> else doesn't, and they haven't, although they sometimes
--
Owain Sutton
I always thought that "vall-et" originated from the pig-ignorant proles
who actually provided the service... ;)
Keith Edgerley
"Owain Sutton" <owain....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ccpvjn$i38$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
Well, now you know.
The pronunciation without the "t" is called over-compensation or, as my wife
says, "common posh".
As in gar'age instead of 'garage.
Richard Brooks
> "Owain Sutton" <owain....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:ccpvjn$i38$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
>> Michael Haslam wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas Wood <woo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>> MJHaslam
>>
>> I always thought that "vall-et" originated from the pig-ignorant
>> proles who actually provided the service... ;)
>
> Well, now you know.
>
> The pronunciation without the "t" is called over-compensation or, as
> my wife says, "common posh".
> As in gar'age instead of 'garage.
Or Garaazsh (a place to store one's cars in) as opposed to garridge (a place
to store boxes of crap in).
Then again the posh are sometimes heard to precede the word "what" with
either an 'h' of 'f'.
There's American posh where the wonderful French invention 'lingerie' is
irritatingly pronounced 'launzheray' rather than 'launzheree' and now they
really might want to put 'route' back as 'root' rather than 'rowt' as that
would intimate an arse-kicking by opposing forces. ;-)
Richard.
Frederick Shorts
How does yer wife pronounce Target?
>
> --
> Keith Edgerley
> owe war sint verswunden
> alliu miniu jar
Jose
> Thomas Muething wrote:
> >
> > Frederick Shorts schrieb:
> >
> > > Since its Spanish, the "j" sounds like a "h". The closest pronunciation is
> > > hwan or huan with the "h" voiced and one syllable.
> >
> > Yep. Or, like "Don Wahn" spoken by a Scotsman.
>
>
> A Scotsman? Youz mean as in Don Wan? Wan, of course, being the English word
> pronounced "won" (as opposed to won which is pronounced wan; man, English is a
> strange language!). Nice rhyme butt I'm sure that if Shaw could pronounce ghoti
> as fish, then he could easily spell Tholen as kook.
>
> >
> > Thomas
>
>
pronunciation is moreover like "hoo-an", efectively with an "h"
aspirated. Tough I don't usually listen to BBC, how is pronunced for
example "Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga"? They're pronunced all bad? In any
case, perhaps the most "authentic" is to pronunce "Don Juan" like it's
said into German (moreover like Mozart said).
Thanks and wishes!
Michael Lockhart
news:ccst5i$tv7$1...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Keith Edgerley wrote:
> > "Owain Sutton" <owain....@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> > news:ccpvjn$i38$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >> Michael Haslam wrote:
> >>> Thomas Wood <woo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> [snipped]
> >>> MJHaslam
> >> I always thought that "vall-et" originated from the pig-ignorant
> >> proles who actually provided the service... ;)
> >
> > Well, now you know.
> >
> > The pronunciation without the "t" is called over-compensation or, as
> > my wife says, "common posh".
> > As in gar'age instead of 'garage.
>
> Or Garaazsh (a place to store one's cars in) as opposed to garridge (a
place
> to store boxes of crap in).
>
> Then again the posh are sometimes heard to precede the word "what" with
> either an 'h' of 'f'.
>
> There's American posh where the wonderful French invention 'lingerie' is
> irritatingly pronounced 'launzheray' rather than 'launzheree'
Strange you'd complain about that one. My family pronounces it
correctly--as "lanzheree". The French don't say "lawn" at the beginning.
They say "lan", kind of like LAN (Local Area Network), but without the "n"
being so prominent. If you're going to complain about the last vowel, you
should get the first one right, too.
Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe to do
so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
Michael
Peter T. Daniels
> Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe to do
> so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
Michael Haslam
> Michael Lockhart wrote:
>
> > Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe to do
> > so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
>
> Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
So what's understood is right, right?
However I say Shostakovitch, or Unilateral Disarmament, or Breach of
International Law, there will be plenty of people round here (North
London) that will say "What?"
MJHaslam
Dr.Matt
Michael Lockhart
news:%TuIc.175$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> In article <40F278...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Michael Lockhart wrote:
> >> Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe
to do
> >> so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
> >
> >Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
>
Argumentum ad populum.
The mere fact that there is always someone around who won't understand a
particular thing doesn't mean that thing is somehow incorrect.
Michael
Dr.Matt
Peter is equivocating between meanings of "pronouncing properly",
at least one of which DOES depend upon the most popular idiom (i.e.
the descriptive rather than proscriptive school of diction).
Dr.Matt
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <oXvIc.43$2b2...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
> Michael Lockhart <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >"Dr.Matt" <fie...@mspacman.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
> >news:%TuIc.175$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> >> In article <40F278...@worldnet.att.net>,
> >> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >> >Michael Lockhart wrote:
> >> >> Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe
> >to do
> >> >> so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
> >> >
> >> >Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
> >>
> >> Argumentum ad equivocatio!
> >
> >Argumentum ad populum.
> >
> >The mere fact that there is always someone around who won't understand a
> >particular thing doesn't mean that thing is somehow incorrect.
> >
> >Michael
> >
>
> Peter is equivocating between meanings of "pronouncing properly",
> at least one of which DOES depend upon the most popular idiom (i.e.
> the descriptive rather than proscriptive school of diction).
That's prescriptive.
A major function of language is communication. If someone uses a word
that their hearers don't understand, then communication has been
thwarted. And if the hearers don't understand the word because the
speaker pronounces it according to some, perhaps false, notion as to its
etymology, then it is the speaker and no one else who is at fault.
Peter T. Daniels
And they'll have even less chance of understanding you if you pronounce
the words in a way different from how English-speakers pronounce them.
("North London" has no connotations for me as to class, ethnic
composition, or anything else.)
Dr.Matt
Dr.Matt
Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Dr.Matt wrote:
>>
>> In article <oXvIc.43$2b2...@bignews4.bellsouth.net>,
>> Michael Lockhart <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> >"Dr.Matt" <fie...@mspacman.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
>> >news:%TuIc.175$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
>> >> In article <40F278...@worldnet.att.net>,
>> >> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> >> >Michael Lockhart wrote:
>> >> >> Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe
>> >to do
>> >> >> so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
>> >> >
>> >> >Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
>> >>
>> >> Argumentum ad equivocatio!
>> >
>> >Argumentum ad populum.
>> >
>> >The mere fact that there is always someone around who won't understand a
>> >particular thing doesn't mean that thing is somehow incorrect.
>> >
>> >Michael
>> >
>>
>> Peter is equivocating between meanings of "pronouncing properly",
>> at least one of which DOES depend upon the most popular idiom (i.e.
>> the descriptive rather than proscriptive school of diction).
>
>That's prescriptive.
It's proscriptive if you say "don't say that!"
>A major function of language is communication. If someone uses a word
>that their hearers don't understand, then communication has been
>thwarted. And if the hearers don't understand the word because the
>speaker pronounces it according to some, perhaps false, notion as to its
>etymology, then it is the speaker and no one else who is at fault.
Az az!
>--
>Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <40F2A0...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Michael Haslam wrote:
> >>
> >> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Michael Lockhart wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still
> >loathe to do
> >> > > so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
> >> >
> >> > Then you're not pronouncing it properly.
> >>
> >> So what's understood is right, right?
> >>
> >> However I say Shostakovitch, or Unilateral Disarmament, or Breach of
> >> International Law, there will be plenty of people round here (North
> >> London) that will say "What?"
> >
> >And they'll have even less chance of understanding you if you pronounce
> >the words in a way different from how English-speakers pronounce them.
> >
> >("North London" has no connotations for me as to class, ethnic
> >composition, or anything else.)
> >--
> >Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
>
> Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't find
the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation of
'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
Jerry Kohl
Aha! So now we have discovered the correct British pronunciation of LAN,
I guess. I've always heard it pronounced to rhyme with "tan" or "ban", but
you are now telling me in your neck of the woods it has a nasalized vowel,
as in French "fin"?
> Sadly, even though I'm pronouncing the word properly, I'm still loathe to do
> so, as I'm sure to encounter someone who says, "What?"
Isn't that pronounce "Eh?"
Dr.Matt
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Aha! So now we have discovered the correct British pronunciation of LAN,
>I guess. I've always heard it pronounced to rhyme with "tan" or "ban", but
>you are now telling me in your neck of the woods it has a nasalized vowel,
>as in French "fin"?
That would be logical. At my job, the LAN folks are always telling us
applications folks to keep our noses out of their topologies. A couple
years ago, a medical doctor thought he could get more bandwidth by
plugging a mini-hub into two wall ports and the resulting dynamic
configuration packet storm (Dr J's computer is over here! No, wait,
it's over there! over here! over there!) brought the hospital network
almost to a halt for an hour, until Networking tracked it down
and unplugged it and had a nice discussion with the doctor about
butting his nose in. So yes, nasal does it, though I don't see
anything particularly British about that!
Christian Tessier
"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:40F2AC...@worldnet.att.net...
Christian
> Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Dr.Matt
[Re North London]
>> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
>> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't find
>> the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation of
>> 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
Since the Northwest Passage is around South America, and in NYC,
"Uptown" means a direction roughly 30 degrees off North, I think fair
is fair all around.
Jerry Kohl
> In article <40F2C2F3...@comcast.net>,
> Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >Aha! So now we have discovered the correct British pronunciation of LAN,
> >I guess. I've always heard it pronounced to rhyme with "tan" or "ban", but
> >you are now telling me in your neck of the woods it has a nasalized vowel,
> >as in French "fin"?
>
> That would be logical. At my job, the LAN folks are always telling us
> applications folks to keep our noses out of their topologies. A couple
> years ago, a medical doctor thought he could get more bandwidth by
> plugging a mini-hub into two wall ports and the resulting dynamic
> configuration packet storm (Dr J's computer is over here! No, wait,
> it's over there! over here! over there!) brought the hospital network
> almost to a halt for an hour, until Networking tracked it down
> and unplugged it and had a nice discussion with the doctor about
> butting his nose in. So yes, nasal does it, though I don't see
> anything particularly British about that!
LOL! Great story, Matt, and oh, so typical, eh? I once employed a
small, independent company to paint my house, and the owner told
me why he had quit working for a large company and set up on his
own. They were sent to paint a newly-built apartment building but,
upon arrival, found that the elctricians had already been there and
finished the wiring--which meant that the switch and wall-outlet
plates were all in place, and needed to be removed again for
painting. When he got a screwdriver out of his toolbox and headed
toward the nearest switchplate, his boss said, "Hey! What do you
think you're doing? That would be in violation of our contract, and
the Electrical Workers Union would boycott us." So they sat around
for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
painting.
Dr.Matt
And here I thought some poor chap had invented masking tape specifically
for this sort of situation!
Michael Haslam
> Dr.Matt wrote:
> >
> > In article <40F2A0...@worldnet.att.net>,
> > Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >("North London" has no connotations for me as to class, ethnic
> > >composition, or anything else.)
> >
> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
>
> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't find
> the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation of
> 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
How can "a nation" find anything, let alone something that hasn't been
lost?
North London is, perhaps unsurprisingly, the Northern part (quarter,
area, region) of the metropolis commonly known as London, in Southern
England. It is a heterogenous area with regard to class, ethnic
composition, wealth etc but is known to include such areas as Hampstead,
Islington, Camden Town, Finchley, Muswell Hill, Tottenham and Golders
Green. Perhaps most importantly for listeners to BBC Radio 4 it includes
Mornington Crescent.
MJHaslam
Nightingale
> "Hey! What do you
> think you're doing? That would be in violation of our contract, and
> the Electrical Workers Union would boycott us." So they sat around
> for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
> electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
> painting.
>
'Twas on the Monday morning, the Gas man came to call...
--
Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
To all musicians, appear and inspire:
Translated Daughter, come down and startle
Composing mortals with immortal fire.
Jerry Kohl
Union regs, mate--all taping is to be done by members of the plasterer's union!
Jaakko Mantyjarvi
And just in case this goes off on the tangent I think it will, I should
note that all stations are currently under a Trellis cross-mapping shunt
and that the 1985 amendments are still valid pending the resolution of
the fifth quadrant rules to incorporate the DLR extension to Lewisham.
--
Regards,
Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
Helsinki, Finland
"Nil significat nisi oscillat. Du vap. Du vap. Du vap."
Jaakko Mantyjarvi
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
>
>> "Hey! What do you
>> think you're doing? That would be in violation of our contract, and
>> the Electrical Workers Union would boycott us." So they sat around
>> for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
>> electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
>> painting.
>>
>
> 'Twas on the Monday morning, the Gas man came to call...
Flanders & Swann, wasn't it?
Nightingale
> Nightingale wrote:
>
>> Jerry Kohl wrote:
>>
>>> "Hey! What do you
>>> think you're doing? That would be in violation of our contract, and
>>> the Electrical Workers Union would boycott us." So they sat around
>>> for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
>>> electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
>>> painting.
>>>
>>
>> 'Twas on the Monday morning, the Gas man came to call...
>
>
> Flanders & Swann, wasn't it?
>
Yes.
Dr.Matt
Ya got me there, I was expecting it was the maskmaker's guild of the
thespian union!
Jerry Kohl
Might've been, might've been. Everybody has got their own little
fiefdom to protect ...
Jaakko Mantyjarvi
> "Dr.Matt" wrote:
>>In article <40F2EC5A...@comcast.net>,
>>Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
>>>electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
>>>painting.
>>
>>And here I thought some poor chap had invented masking tape specifically
>>for this sort of situation!
>
> Union regs, mate--all taping is to be done by members of the plasterer's union!
The sound engineers' union does the taping, surely?
Jerry Kohl
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
>
>> "Dr.Matt" wrote:
>>
>>> In article <40F2EC5A...@comcast.net>,
>>> Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> (snip) So they sat around
>>>> for six hours until the proper union could send around a qualified
>>>> electrician to remove the wall plates, and they could get on with the
>>>> painting.
>>>
>>>
>>> And here I thought some poor chap had invented masking tape specifically
>>> for this sort of situation!
>>
>>
>> Union regs, mate--all taping is to be done by members of the
>> plasterer's union!
>
>
> The sound engineers' union does the taping, surely?
>
And they're plastered most of the time, yes?
Peter T. Daniels
>
> >"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >news:40F2AC...@worldnet.att.net...
>
> [Re North London]
>
> >> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
>
> >> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't find
> >> the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation of
> >> 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
>
> Since the Northwest Passage is around South America, and in NYC,
> "Uptown" means a direction roughly 30 degrees off North, I think fair
> is fair all around.
Eh? The Northwest Passage is north of Canada. Henry Hudson was looking
for it when he found Hudson's Bay, James Cook and Juan de Fuca were
looking for it when they found Washington and B.C., etc. (I don't
remember who Puget was.)
Peter T. Daniels
That doesn't seem to be why you mentioned it, though you've snipped the
context anyway.
Dr.Matt
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>Might've been, might've been. Everybody has got their own little
>fiefdom to protect ...
Oh, now let's not get the leather-weilding fife tooters involved!
Dr.Matt
The northwest passage that was being sought was a passage to Asia.
Dr.Matt
Dr.Matt <fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <40F34F...@worldnet.att.net>,
>Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>Dr.Matt wrote:
>>>
>>> >"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>>> >news:40F2AC...@worldnet.att.net...
>>>
>>> [Re North London]
>>>
>>> >> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
>>>
>>> >> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't find
>>> >> the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation of
>>> >> 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
>>>
>>> Since the Northwest Passage is around South America, and in NYC,
>>> "Uptown" means a direction roughly 30 degrees off North, I think fair
>>> is fair all around.
>>
>>Eh? The Northwest Passage is north of Canada. Henry Hudson was looking
>>for it when he found Hudson's Bay, James Cook and Juan de Fuca were
>>looking for it when they found Washington and B.C., etc. (I don't
>>remember who Puget was.)
>>--
>>Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
>
>The northwest passage that was being sought was a passage to Asia.
And the chap who found it, as you will recall, was Magellan.
Frederick Shorts
>
> Frederick Shorts <Cyphe...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message news:<40EE09AC...@giganews.com>...
> > Thomas Muething wrote:
> > >
> > > Frederick Shorts schrieb:
> > >
> > > > Since its Spanish, the "j" sounds like a "h". The closest pronunciation is
> > > > hwan or huan with the "h" voiced and one syllable.
> > >
> > > Yep. Or, like "Don Wahn" spoken by a Scotsman.
> >
> >
> > A Scotsman? Youz mean as in Don Wan? Wan, of course, being the English word
> > pronounced "won" (as opposed to won which is pronounced wan; man, English is a
> > strange language!). Nice rhyme butt I'm sure that if Shaw could pronounce ghoti
> > as fish, then he could easily spell Tholen as kook.
> >
> > >
> > > Thomas
> >
> >
> I'm Spanish and actually I canoot say anything you've said before. The
> pronunciation is moreover like "hoo-an", efectively with an "h"
> aspirated. Tough I don't usually listen to BBC, how is pronunced for
> example "Juan Crisóstomo Arriaga"? They're pronunced all bad? In any
> case, perhaps the most "authentic" is to pronunce "Don Juan" like it's
> said into German (moreover like Mozart said).
> Thanks and wishes!
Do you hear many Jose and hose B jokes?
--
Freddie D. 'fag' Shorts
I'm loud and I'm proud. I'm gay and I like it that way!
Another proud buttplug owner. Honk if yer horny!
I support Gay Pride! The Ramrod rocks! Kerry sux!
Wanna hire me for web site development? I'm way under-employed!
Contact me by email (mailto:cyphe...@nyc.rr.com) or mail me at
FS Newssite Inc.
101 West 23rd St. Suite 2237, New York, NY, 10011
On second thoughts, don't bother. Just sign me up for subscriptions.
I like to steal copyrighted material.
Check out my current web sites -
http://www.orwellian.org
http://www.miscstuff.org
http://home.nyc.rr.com/cypherpunk/
I'm really proud of this -
http://Frederick.Shorts.swellserver.com/news/top_stories/worldrecord.php
http://www.plugger.info
http://www.pluggers.com/daily/
Hay! My kinda place - http://www.gaylordhotels.com/
Frederick Shorts
Frederick Shorts
I'm sorry butt we're only answering questions on farming. In particular,
cereal crop production in the EEC.
> --
> Regards,
> Jaakko Mäntyjärvi
> Helsinki, Finland
>
> "Nil significat nisi oscillat. Du vap. Du vap. Du vap."
BTW, which song won the Eurovision Song Contest in 1964?
Jerry Kohl
> In article <40F325F1...@comcast.net>,
> Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >
> >Might've been, might've been. Everybody has got their own little
> >fiefdom to protect ...
>
> Oh, now let's not get the leather-weilding fife tooters involved!
"Weilding"? (Or did you have in mind "fief, fife, fo, fum ..."?)
Jerry Kohl
You are Manuel and I claim my five pounds.
Michael Haslam
>
> That doesn't seem to be why you mentioned it, though you've snipped the
> context anyway.
Well spotted, Peter. I only mentioned it to prevent some pedant assuming
that I meant "here on rmc" when I said "here". The polyglot/polyaccent
nature of North London certainly did not hinder the context.
MJHaslam
Michael Haslam
> In article <paJIc.227$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu>,
> Dr.Matt <fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
> >In article <40F34F...@worldnet.att.net>,
> >Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>Dr.Matt wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >>> >news:40F2AC...@worldnet.att.net...
> >>>
> >>> [Re North London]
> >>>
> >>> >> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
> >>>
> >>> >> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't
> >>> >> find the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the
> >>> >> connotation of 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
> >>>
> >>> Since the Northwest Passage is around South America, and in NYC,
> >>> "Uptown" means a direction roughly 30 degrees off North, I think fair
> >>> is fair all around.
> >>
> >>Eh? The Northwest Passage is north of Canada. Henry Hudson was looking
> >>for it when he found Hudson's Bay, James Cook and Juan de Fuca were
> >>looking for it when they found Washington and B.C., etc. (I don't
> >>remember who Puget was.)
> >>--
> >>Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
> >
> >The northwest passage that was being sought was a passage to Asia.
>
> And the chap who found it, as you will recall, was Magellan.
Was he a nation?
MJHaslam
Peter T. Daniels
Dr. Matt has confused form and function. The Northwest Passage was above
Canada. Englishmen or agents working for the English who failed to find
it included Hudson, Cook, Frobisher, and the crew whose ship got
icebound for an entire winter and some of them survived.
The route to Asia was wherever they were able to get past America, and
in fact it was Vasco da Gama who found it by avoiding America entirely.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> "Dr.Matt" wrote:
>
> > In article <40F325F1...@comcast.net>,
> > Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >Might've been, might've been. Everybody has got their own little
> > >fiefdom to protect ...
> >
> > Oh, now let's not get the leather-weilding fife tooters involved!
>
> "Weilding"? (Or did you have in mind "fief, fife, fo, fum ..."?)
Spelling isn't one of his strong points. Sometimes it even matters -- as
with "proscriptive" vs. "prescriptive."
Longman
"Michael Haslam" <innat...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:1ggq93q.10b9o8zv8lvqtN%innat...@btinternet.com...
> >
> > And they pronounce the t in "valet."
>
> The upper classes do, and they are the people that have them!
But of course we do, dear boy. I'm forever ticking my under butler off about
this. It's an English word, after all. Compare the excruciatingly annoying
American habit of pronouncing the English word 'herb' as 'airrrrb'.
L.
Michael Lockhart
news:40f46b3e$0$37789$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Where did you get the idea any Americans say "herb" as "airrrrb"? I have
never heard a single American do such a thing when speaking English. In
*French*, in cuisine, for example, it's pronounced like that. It definitely
isn't pronounced "airrrrb" in normal parlance.
Michael
Gareth Williams
You mean "urb" surely? I seem to recall this was famously demonstrated by
Chuck Heston in "The Ten Commandments", when Moses relates to those around
him the significance of eating "bitter urbs" with their roast lamb.
It's the French who use "airrrrb", as in "fines airrrrbs" or "Airrrrbie
Rides Again".
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Dr.Matt
Strictly speaking, it's `urb, with a glottal stroke for `, but then
we have no trouble saying `averford and `arvard.
Christian Tessier
"Dr.Matt" <fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote in message
news:paJIc.227$nO....@news.itd.umich.edu...
> In article <40F34F...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >Dr.Matt wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Peter T. Daniels" <gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:40F2AC...@worldnet.att.net...
> >>
> >> [Re North London]
> >>
> >> >> > Isn't it, er... south of West End or something?
> >>
> >> >> Seems unlikely, but I wouldn't put it past the nation that couldn't
find
> >> >> the Northwest Passage ... anyway West End does have the connotation
of
> >> >> 'theater district, equivalent to Broadway'.
> >>
> >> Since the Northwest Passage is around South America, and in NYC,
> >> "Uptown" means a direction roughly 30 degrees off North, I think fair
> >> is fair all around.
> >
> >Eh? The Northwest Passage is north of Canada. Henry Hudson was looking
> >for it when he found Hudson's Bay, James Cook and Juan de Fuca were
> >looking for it when they found Washington and B.C., etc. (I don't
> >remember who Puget was.)
> >--
> >Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
>
> The northwest passage that was being sought was a passage to Asia.
>
the Americas. It was crossed both ways (East to West and West to East) for
the first time by a RCMP ship (I forgot the name) in the 1930s.
Christian
Christian Tessier
1759, and he did it by land. I don't remember if he crossed the Rockies
then, I don't remember all the details it's been a long time since I studied
History (over 30 years.)
Christian
> Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Dr.Matt
Whereas Magellan et al's achievement of 1519-22 had sufficed to
prove the point.
Longman
"Michael Lockhart" <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:EZZIc.2092$xH1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> Where did you get the idea any Americans say "herb" as "airrrrb"? I have
> never heard a single American do such a thing when speaking English.
See: http://www.nmt.edu/~armiller/mispronounce.htm
I hear it all the time on US TV shows (most recently on tonight's Will &
Grace shown on Dutch TV). I really wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't...
The 'h' should be aspirated and I'm not going to brook that argument of '250
million Americans can't be wrong' - they can and they are!
L.
Dr.Matt
Michael Lockhart
news:pan.2004.07.14....@nospam.com...
Exactly. There's a clear difference between omitting the initial "h" and
saying "airrrrb". No American says that.
Michael
Dr.Matt
Michael Lockhart <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>Exactly. There's a clear difference between omitting the initial "h" and
>saying "airrrrb". No American says that.
Except at artford, arvard and averford.
Peter T. Daniels
You certainly did not hear it with the vowel of "air."
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <UXwJc.87$Bz6...@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
> Michael Lockhart <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Exactly. There's a clear difference between omitting the initial "h" and
> >saying "airrrrb". No American says that.
>
> Except at artford, arvard and averford.
No, not even there does "herb" have the vowel of "air."
Dr.Matt
Frederick Shorts
>
> In article <40f68e9c$0$48959$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>,
> Longman <lon...@notmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Michael Lockhart" <ml1...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> >news:EZZIc.2092$xH1....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> >
> >> Where did you get the idea any Americans say "herb" as "airrrrb"? I have
> >> never heard a single American do such a thing when speaking English.
> >
> >See: http://www.nmt.edu/~armiller/mispronounce.htm
> >
> >I hear it all the time on US TV shows (most recently on tonight's Will &
> >Grace shown on Dutch TV). I really wouldn't have mentioned it if I hadn't...
> >The 'h' should be aspirated and I'm not going to brook that argument of '250
> >million Americans can't be wrong' - they can and they are!
> >
> >L.
>
> I notice they don't mention oybs.
Youz gotta problem wid dat?
>
> --
> Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
> Music: Splendor in Sound
> "Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria."
> Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/