Tuning
Clive Camm
Dumb questions du jour.
What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
Robert L. Stoskopf
clive...@verus.com (Clive Camm) wrote:
>Dumb questions du jour.
>What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
Yes, it is an A. Generally 440 Hz, but some tend to raise it a bit as
it will have the effect of making the orchestra sound "brighter." (no
reflection on intelligence meant).
YY
I didn't know they do it on purpose! It's really frustrating when you
have perfect pitch!
yy
--
==============================================
All we can know is that we know nothing.
And that is the height of human wisdom
-- Pierre Bezukhov <War and Peace> --
==============================================
Marco Jansen
>Dumb questions du jour.
>
>What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
Yes, normally A=3D440 Hz (and in the Philips Symphony Orchestra A=3D442 Hz)
Cia, Marco.
## CrossPoint v3.02 ##
John Rethorst
In article <6PFyG...@viola.iaehv.nl>, mja...@viola.iaehv.nl (Marco
Jansen) wrote:
> >Dumb questions du jour.
> >
> >What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
>
> Yes, normally A=3D440 Hz (and in the Philips Symphony Orchestra A=3D442 Hz)
>
i've heard that for the NY Phil, A=441 and for Vienna Phil it's 445.
Latter figure seems high, though.
Anyone know any others?
John
Jim Dunphy
Robert L. Stoskopf wrote:
>
> clive...@verus.com (Clive Camm) wrote:
>
> >Dumb questions du jour.
>
> >What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
>
> it will have the effect of making the orchestra sound "brighter." (no
> reflection on intelligence meant).
In the booklet that comes with the Archive CD of L'Incoronazione di
Poppea, I read:
Pitch: a' = 440 Hz
Tuning: 1/6th-comma mean-tone
What does that bit mean about Tuning?
Jim Dunphy
Matthew Vaughan
> In the booklet that comes with the Archive CD of L'Incoronazione di
> Poppea, I read:
>
> Pitch: a' = 440 Hz
> Tuning: 1/6th-comma mean-tone
>
> What does that bit mean about Tuning?
>
> Jim Dunphy
You've opened up an extremely complicated subject.
The gist of it is this:
It is impossible to make every interval in the 12-note diatonic scale
perfectly in tune. If some are in tune, others will be out of tune.
So 'tuning' or 'tempering' involves the art of juggling which intervals
are more or less out of tune in each key. In the last century we have
generally adopted (for keyboard instruments, at least) a system known as
'equal temperament,' in which all semi-tones are the same. That is, the
difference between C and C# is proportionally the same as the difference
between Eb and E, E and F, etc. Also, all keys (as in C major, e minor,
etc.) sound the same, other than absolute pitch level.
There are many other systems which make different choices. Some intervals
are more pure, and others more noticeably out of tune, depending on which
key the music is in. This means some keys (say C-major) sound more in tune
than others (say E-major), and this may account for the coloration or
character once attributed to different keys.
--
Matthew Vaughan
matt...@macconnect.com
Classical Music and Macintosh computers? Yeah, you could say I'm in the minority...
Fred Goldrich
In article <clive_camm-25...@line248.nwm.mindlink.net>,
Clive Camm <clive...@verus.com> wrote:
>
>Last night at the symphony, while listening to it go through the tuning
>ritual, my companion whispered that it was playing more than one note (not
>an octave). As it sounded neither minor or major, I guessed they were
>playing the root ‹ an A ‹ and the fifth ‹ an E. Is this correct, or am I
>really out to lunch.
What you were probably hearing was the tuning of the
individual strings of the string instruments, each of which
must be tuned separately. Without going into too much detail,
each string instrument has four strings (except that some
basses have five); each instrument has one A string; and the
other strings are tuned in fifths (fourths for the basses),
beginning with the A tuned to the oboe's A and progressing
up and down from there (down only for violas and cellos, for
which the A is the highest open string). Bottom line, you
would have been hearing C's, G's, D's, A's, and E's.
The accuracy of the tuning is checked by sounding
two adjacent string simultaneously, the one being adjusted
compared to the one already tuned.
-- Fred Goldrich
--
Fred Goldrich
gold...@panix.com
Clive Camm
> >
> > clive...@verus.com (Clive Camm) wrote:
> >
> > >Dumb questions du jour.
> >
> > >What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
> >
> > Yes, it is an A. Generally 440 Hz, but some tend to raise it a bit as
> > it will have the effect of making the orchestra sound "brighter." (no
> > reflection on intelligence meant).
Thanks for all of the responses to my original question. Now the follow up:
Last night at the symphony, while listening to it go through the tuning
ritual, my companion whispered that it was playing more than one note (not
an octave). As it sounded neither minor or major, I guessed they were
playing the root ‹ an A ‹ and the fifth ‹ an E. Is this correct, or am I
really out to lunch.
Clive
dbroo...@aol.com
In article <clive_camm-25...@line248.nwm.mindlink.net>,
clive...@verus.com (Clive Camm) writes:
>Last night at the symphony, while listening to it go through the tuning
>ritual, my companion whispered that it was playing more than one note
(not
>an octave). As it sounded neither minor or major, I guessed they were
>playing the root ‹ an A ‹ and the fifth ‹ an E. Is this correct, or am I
>really out to lunch.
An oboist in one of my orchestras would sound a brief (low) D before the
held A. I never asked her why; I assumed it had something to do with
conditioning the instrument or the reed, but that was a guess.
-- David Brooks
Georg Tintner
John Rethorst (jc...@cornell.edu) wrote:
: In article <6PFyG...@viola.iaehv.nl>, mja...@viola.iaehv.nl (Marco
: Jansen) wrote:
: > >Dumb questions du jour.
: > >
: > >What note does an orchestra tune to? Is it an A? Thanks.
: >
: > Yes, normally A=3D440 Hz (and in the Philips Symphony Orchestra A=3D442 Hz)
: >
: i've heard that for the NY Phil, A=441 and for Vienna Phil it's 445.
: Latter figure seems high, though.
: Anyone know any others?
A=442 is quite common these days. European orchestras tend to tune higher
than North American ones.
I recall many years ago in Australia being told that when the Berlin
Philharmonic ORchestra, or perhaps it was the Berlin Phlharmonic Soloists,
were intending to tour Australia with a piano concerto, they asked the ABC
(Australian Broadcasting Corporation, which ran all the major Australian
orchestras at that time) to tune their pianos to A=447! - instead of their
normal 440. The ABC rightly refused, saying if they wanted that pitch they
should bring their own piano.
Tanya Tintner
Leroy Curtis
In article <matthewv-230...@accs-as33-dp06.snfc.grid.net>,
Matthew Vaughan <matt...@macconnect.com> writes
>
>There are many other systems which make different choices. Some intervals
>are more pure, and others more noticeably out of tune, depending on which
>key the music is in. This means some keys (say C-major) sound more in tune
>than others (say E-major), and this may account for the coloration or
>character once attributed to different keys.
>
mean that when we listen to a piece of 18th or 19th century music, it
sounds different colouristically to the way the compiser heard it?
--
Regards
Leroy Curtis Le...@baram.demon.co.uk
Pauline Lerner
I have another explanation. The stringed instruments are tuned with one
fifth intervals between the strings, i.e., G, D, A, and E for the
violins. A violinist would first tune the A string, then tune the D and
E strings to be 1/5 below and above it, respectively. Last, he/she
would tune the G to be 1/5 below the D. If you listen carefully, you
can hear the pairs of strings being played together.
Patrick Lindblom
- [Disclaimer: I'm not a professional, so my answer may leave out some
- important information. If so - please fill me in.]
- Yes, it does. Well, at least for 16th and 17th (and maybe 18th) century music.
- Compared to today, the tuning then had a significantly higher pitch (about a
- half-tone). Furthermore, it was not "tempered"; meaning that some intervals
- (i.e. thirds and fifths) was much "purer" than today. As Matthew points out,
- this also means that they had difficulties playing in keys "far away" from
- C/a.
- The reason to introduced a "well-tempered" system was to be able to play in all
- keys without too much dissonance. This has in turn affected all keys.
- I've played a 16th century organ (replica) in Gothenburg with the old tuning,
- and it is striking how clean the intervals are - but it's even more striking
- how bad and dissonant it is to play, for example, in c-minor. It also have
- separate (split) keys for d sharp/e flat, as well as for f sharp/g flat. They
- sound very different.
- > --
> Regards
>
> Leroy Curtis Le...@baram.demon.co.uk
>
- Regards,
- Patrick Lindblom <p...@ecs.se>
Patrick Lindblom
In a previous message, I wrote:
> Compared to today, the tuning then had a significantly higher pitch
> (about a half-tone).
This is of course wrong. The pitch was about a
half-tone *lower*, nothing else.
Sorry!
/Patrick
Patrick Lindblom
Sorry for the HTML garbage. Didn't notice it in my new Netscape Beta...
Once again - sorry!
/Patrick
Allan Jones
Georg Tintner wrote:
> A=442 is quite common these days. European orchestras tend to tune higher than North American ones.
Apparently 'standard' pitch has been creeping upwards, after having
been fixed at A = 440 Hz for some time. (If you go back far
enough pitch was much less standardized.) It's said that playing at a
higher pitch makes for a more brilliant sound. Presumably this
'benefit' is lost if everyone adopts the higher pitch.
I get the feeling that UK performers are trying to hold the line on
this, but visitng continental performers often play at higher pitch.
There doesn't seem to be much point having a standard if no one
adheres to it.
David Brooks,139,7233
If I may take another bite at this topic:
When the orchestra tunes to a piano, I often hear the concertmaster giving
an A, then a D minor chord with A at the top. Come to think, I have done
it myself when I have to give the note at a piano.
But why? Can any string players give a rationale? I would have thought the
F interferes horribly with the violin E -- and the viola/cello C, come to
that.
--
David Brooks, QA Manager, Desktop Engineering dbr...@opengroup.org
The Open Group <URL:http://www.opengroup.org/~dbrooks/>
Commit planned giving and daily acts of compassion.
D.G. Porter
Allan Jones wrote:
>
> Georg Tintner wrote:
> Apparently 'standard' pitch has been creeping upwards, after having
> been fixed at A = 440 Hz for some time. (If you go back far
> enough pitch was much less standardized.) It's said that playing at a
> higher pitch makes for a more brilliant sound.
>
>
If you go back to baroque pitch you get C-Major music played nearer
present day B-Major, a more brilliant key than C. Also explains why
they considered B-Minor to be so moody, while we would hear it as B-flat
Minor. I find that the music works better on period tuning, even if
using modern instruments.
DGP
Mark Starr
D. G. Porter wrote:
> If you go back to baroque pitch you get C-Major music played nearer
> present day B-Major, a more brilliant key than C. Also explains why
> they considered B-Minor to be so moody, while we would hear it as B-flat
> Minor. I find that the music works better on period tuning, even if
> using modern instruments.
Many musicians assume that tuning in the Baroque era was universally
based on an "A" considerably lower in pitch than today's standard 440
Hrz. And yet HIP Guru John Elliot Gardener went to the enormous trouble
and expense (for new scores and parts) to transpose the entire opera
"L'Orfeo" by Monteverdi UP one full tone for his recording and his live
performances. Gardiner based his conclusion on the tessitura of the
vocal parts, claiming that all of the roles (in particular Orfeo) lie
much more comfortably for each type of voice when sung up a tone.
Other claims about the pitch of "A" by music historians have been based
on the "A's" found today in some early instruments with "fixed"
pitches--like organs, oboes. But when I have examined some of these
early instruments, I've always found that even back then, the makers
provided some way for the player to adjust his/her pitch.
Personally, I have never bought these sweeping generalization about
pitch in various musical eras. And my conclusion is based solely on
what I think is common sense. One only has to reflect on the limited
means of transportation and communication, particularly over wide
distances, to conclude that in any given era, there must have been
hundreds of "A's" across Europe in the Renaissance, Baroque and
Classical eras--high, low, and even 440 Hz.
What is interesting today is that some of the world's most renowned
soloists (including Jean-Pierre Rampal and Yehudi Menuhin) have actually
walked out of public engagements with some of the world's most famous
orchestras (including the Berlin Philharmonic) because of the difference
in tuning pitch. Neither the soloists or the orchestral musicians were
willing to budge a Herz.
And about a decade ago, the Vienna Philharmonic was on tour in San
Francisco to play among other pieces, a Brahms' piano concerto. In
Davies hall, the orchestra encountered a magnificent Hamburg
Steinway--tuned at precisely 440 Hz. At the first rehearsal, the
musicians complained about the lower pitch. The owner/provider of the
piano absolutely refused to permit his instrument to be retuned. There
was no other concert grand of acceptable quality availble on short
notice in the immediate area. So the VPO reshuffled its programs and
had shipped by jet in less than one day its own Boesenforfer, tuned at
A=448 (or 446, I no longer remember exactly which pitch was reported in
the newspaper story at the time.)
Regards,
Mark Starr