Did Debussy hate Beethoven's music?
aest...@hotmail.com
pastorale.
(Seeing the day break is more useful than hearing the Symphonie
pastorale.)
Claude DEBUSSY, Monsieur Croche antidilettante
Ian Pace
to r.m.c.r. about a year ago.
Ian
'Debussy was the most violent of all the critics I ever met, in spite of his
enthusiams and the delicacy of feeling he seemed able to express, in words
as in music. He satirized Wagner, he despised and detested Brahms, and he
attacked Beethoven with such bitterness and sarcasm that it made one's blood
boil. Once, in my hearing, he mentioned that he had 'escaped' the previous
evening from a concert where a Beethoven quartet was being played, just at
the moment when the 'old deaf one' ('le vieux sourd') started to 'develop a
theme'. There was something so hateful in the tone of his voice as he said
this that I rose up indignantly and denounced him for his disrespect to the
name of a great genius; and the result was, I regret to say, that our
relations were broken on the spot and not renewed for a number of years.' -
Harold Bauer, quoted in Debussy Remembered - Roger Nichols (ed), pp156-157
'Certainly, even apart from living musicians, he had very pronounced
dislikes, one of which was Beethoven, whom he described as le vieux
sourd.' - Cyril Scott, in Nichols, op cit, p105
'My first experience of him was of this rather important, bearded figure who
would explode suddenly in great indignation; and perhaps my first
recollection of him is his seizing my arm when I was aged about six and
saying; 'If you have any affection, my boy, for me, *never* play or even
talk of Wagner or Beethoven to me, because it is like somebody dancing on my
grave.' - Simon Harcourt-Smith, in Nichols, op cit, p120
'Debussy liked Mozart, and he believed that Beethoven had terrifically
profound things to say, but that he did not know how to say them, because he
was imprisoned in a web of incessant restatement and of German
aggressiveness.' - George Copeland, in Nichols, op cit, p166
'For instance, he murmured one day: "I detest the concertos of Mozart,"
adding, "but less than those of Beethoven."' - Margeurite Long, in Nichols
op cit, p178
Debussy had a love-hate relationship with Beethoven throughout his life -
the fact that he was so often mentioning him shows that the relationship was
important, whether the feelings were admiring or antipathetic (or sometimes
both at the same time). He did clearly admire the Ninth Symphony, though
(perhaps because of its proto-Wagnerian qualities?):
'A symphony of M.G.M. Witkowski was greeted with much enthusiasm. But it
seemed to me to be only further proof of the uselessness of the symphony
since Beethoven. Certainly in Schumann and Mendelssohn it is merely a
respectful reworking of the same old forms with a good deal less conviction.
The Ninth is a landmark and a work of genius: it has a magnificent desire to
grow, to liberate itself from the customary forms and at the same time to
imbue them with the harmonious proportions of a fresco.*
Beethoven's real lesson to us was not that we should preserve age-old forms,
nor even that we should plant our footsteps where he first trod. We should
look out through open windows into clear skies. Many people appear to have
closed them, seemingly for good; those successful so-called geniuses should
have no excuse for their academic contrapuntal exercises, which are called
(out of habit) "symphonies"
*It has been stated elsewhere that Beethoven made the spoken word the
"apotheosis and crowning glory" of this edifice in sound, and that the
finale of the Ninth thus prepared the way for music drama. Isn't that just a
convenient theory for the Wagnerians to hold? The intervention of the
thousand voices is really to salute the art of music above all else.' - 'At
the Societe Nationale: Orchestral Concert on 16 March' in La Revue Blanche,
1 April 1901, quoted in Debussy on Music - collected and introduced by
Francois Lesure, translated and edited Richard Langham Smith, pp15-16
'The Ninth has long been surronded by a haze of adjectives. Together with
the Mona Lisa's smile - which for some strange reason has always been
labelled "mysterious" - it is a masterpiece about which the most stupid
comments have been made. It's a wonder it hasn't been submerged entirely
beneath the mass of words it has excited. Wagner intended completing the
orchestration; others imagined an explanation of its development in terms of
illuminated pictures. In the end, this fine, intelligible work is turned
into something unapproachable by the general public. I suppose some light is
thrown upon the subject by admitting that it does contain a mystery, but
does that really help?
You know Beethoven's literary side wasn't worth twopence - at least not in
the present-day sense of the word. He loved music and was proud of her; for
him she contained all the passion and joy that were so noticeably missing
from his private life. Perhaps we should see the Choral Symphony as simly an
overblown gesture of musical pride. A notebook containing over two hundred
different versions of the main theme of the coda to this symphony tells us
of the painstaking care and the purely musical vision that was guiding him;
Schiller's verses are included only for their value as sounds. His wish was
that the initial theme should contain all the potential for development. As
well as being of prodigious beauty in itself, it is also magnificent because
of the other elements it throws into relief. There is no more triumphant
example of how flexible an idea can become within the mold imposed upon it.
At each leap forward a new joy is discovered, and it never seems tired or
repetitious. You could say it was like the magical growth of a tree that was
sprouting fresh leaves and blossoming at the same time. There is nothing
redundant in this work of such giant proportions, not even the Andante,
which some recent aesthetes have accused of being too long. Is this not just
a finely judged moment of repose to offset the rhythmic insistence of the
Scherzo and the instrumental torrent that carries, invincibly, the voices
toward the glory of the Finale? Beethoven had already written eight
symphonies; the Ninth seemed almost to signify a fight against destiny. He
had tried to excel himself, and I hardly see how anyone could deny that he
succeeded. As for the excesses of humanity that burst the customary seams of
this symphony: they sprang out of his own soul, which, drunk with the idea
of freedom, was gradually destroying itself. Ironically, he was already
destined for the golden gates that would force him to be numbered among the
unlucky company of many other great men. Beethoven suffered with all his
heart; he ardently desired humanity to find communion in him, and from that
desire was born his cry "to the humblest and poorest of his brothers."
uttered by the thousand voices of his genius. But did they hear him? A vexed
question. The Choral Symphony was conducted on Good Friday by Chevillard,
with an understanding that ranks this conductor among the very greatest. It
found itself in the company of several festering pieces by Richard Wagner.
Tannhauser, Siegmund, Lohengrin - everybody once again staked his claim to a
leitmotiv. But the severe and loyal mastery of old Beethoven easily won the
day from such meandering, high-hatted humbugs!' - 'The Ninth Symphony', in
La Revue Blanche, 1 May 1901, in Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, pp29-30
Afterwards, Debussy was prone to snide remarks about Beethoven's music:
'I recall the parallel he drew between Beethoven's orchestra, which he spoke
of in terms of black and white (and therefore giving a marvellous scale of
grays) and Wagner's, which he said was like a kind of multicoloured putty,
perfectly evenly spread, where he could no longer differentiate between the
sound of a violin and that of a trombone.' - 'Conversation with M. Croche',
La Revue Blanche, 1 July 1901, quoted in Lesure/Richard Langham Smith, op
cit, p45
Debussy (as Monsieur Croche) did also compare the piano sonata of Dukas to
those of Beethoven:
'Naturally, M. P. Lalo does not forget to compare your friend Dukas to the
great master Beethoven. But if I were he I'd have been only moderately
flattered: Beethoven's sonatas are very badly written for the piano, and are
really more like orchestral transcriptions, especially the last ones. Often
they seem to require a third hand, which I'm sure Beethoven intended, at
least I hope he did.' - 'Conversation with M. Croche., La Revue Blanche, 1
July 1901, quoted in Lesure/Richard Langham Smith, op cit, p47
'Meanwhile, M. David-G Henderson sang, with a distinguished quaver, a song
by Beethoven bearing the somewhat old-fashioned title of "Adelaide." I think
the old man must have forgotten to burn this piece, and we must put the
blame for its exhumation on his greedy heirs' - 'Concerts', Gil Blas, 19
January 1903, in Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p95-96
'Or Beethoven? A man who was so ill-bred that he decided to become deaf so
that he could better annoy his contemporaries with his last quartets?' -
'Prince L.-F. of Bavaria', Gil Blas, 19 January 1903, in Lesure/Langham
Smith, op cit, p96
The following statement was perhaps one of Debussy's most thoughtful on
Beethoven:
'All in all, the popularity of the Pastoral Symphony rests upon the common
and mutual misunderstanding that exists between man and nature. Look at that
scene by the brook!....A brook where, apparently, the oxen come to drink. At
least, that's what the sound of the bassoons suggests to me. Not to mention
the wooden nightingale and the Swiss cuckoo-clock cuckoo - more like the art
of M. de Vaucauson than drawn from nature's book. All such imitations are in
the end useless - purely arbitrary interpretations.
But certain of the old master's pages do contain expression more profound
than the beauty of a landscape. Why? Simply because there is no attempt at
direct imitation but rather at capturing the invisible sentiments of nature.
Does one render the mystery of the forest by recording the height of the
trees? It is more a process where the limitless depths of the forest give
free rein to the imagination.
Elsewhere in this symphony, Beethoven shows himself to be of a time when one
never saw the world of nature except in books. This is proved by the
"storm", which forms part of this same piece. The real terror of man and
beast in the face of a storm is hidden beneath the folds of a romantic
cloak, and the thunder is hardly severe.
But it would be stupid to think that I have no respect for Beethoven. It's
just that a musician of genius, such as he, can make unconscious mistakes
greater than anyone else. There is no man who is bound to write only
masterpieces, and if we class the Pastoral Symphony in one of these, then we
have no yardstick with which to measure the others. That's all I want to
say.' - 'Monsieur F. Weingartner', Gil Blas, 16 February 1903, in
Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p117
He was still praising the Ninth Symphony in 1903 in a similar manner to how
he had in 1901:
'We also have the famous Mona Lisa's smile, which for some strange reason is
always labelled "mysterious"...Beethoven's Choral Symphony has been the
subject of such extraordinary interpretations that this music, so fine and
strong, was for a long time unapproachable to the general public.' 'Berlioz
and M. Gunsbourg', Gil Blas, 8 May 1903, in Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit,
p192
One of Debussy's harshest comments on Beethoven was the following:
'Debussy answered by asking another question: "What do you call classics?
Believe me that most of these are classics in spite of themselves, and that
quality has been forced upon them without their knowledge, consent, or even
expectation. I acknowledge one great master, but I do not know why he should
be called a classic, because he lives, breathes, and pulsates today. This is
Bach; but I will not say the same of Beethoven, as I consider him a man of
his epoch, and with a few exceptions his works should have been allowed to
rest.' - 'Debussy Talks of His Music', interview with Emily Frances Bauer,
6th August 1908, printed in Harper's Weekly, 29 August 1908, cited in
Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p233
Some of his later statements seem to be a little more measured.
'All kinds of attitudes toward the great masters have been attributed to me,
and I have been quoted as saying things about Wagner and Beethoven that I
never said. I admire Beethoven and Wagner, but I refuse to admire them
uncritically just because people have told me that they are masters! Never!
In our day, it seems to me that we adopt poses in regard to the masters more
becoming to bitter old cleaning women; I wish to have the freedom to say
that a boring page of music is annoying no matter who its author.' - 'The
Ideas of a Great Musician', Excelsior, 18 January 1911, cited in
Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p245
'Why don't we stop making the secrets of the art so readily available? They
are as dangerous as they are useless! As so many of our learned professors
testify, Beethoven felt he had to discourage quite a number of young people,
for he himself knew that art means sacrifice. Today we hold him up as an
example of indestructible glory. Little harm in that, but we are ignoring
the games of chance....' - in SIM, November 1912, cited in Lesure/Langham
Smith, op cit, p265
'Of all the music played at the Concert Colonne the most modern - without
being funny - was Ludwig van Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony. It remains one
of the finest examples ever of expressive technique...To hear an orchestra
imitate the cries of animals certainly provides joy for the little ones as
well as the grownups. To be seated in a comfortable seat and be subjected to
a storm is pure Sybaritism! M. Gabriel Pierne conducted it really well, and
by that I mean that he didn't try to encumber it with commentaries but
merely allowed its charm to speak for itself [Do note this comment, one and
all at r.m.c.r.!]. Apropos of this symphony, has anyone ever thought how
much a "masterpiece" has to be a "masterpiece" to be able to survive so many
different interpretations? There is the "respectful" interpretation, where
the fear of disturbing the dust of centuries slows down all the movements
and muffles all the nuances...Then there is the "fantastic" interpretation,
which is just the opposite, giving the impression that the piece has been
submerged by a rainstorm. (Just because Beethoven was a little awkward
does't mean we should try to aggravate him!)
The reason why this last performance was so pleasing? We really were in the
country; the trees were not dressed in white ties, and the stream beside
which these most pure, most German idylls took place was cool and fresh. We
could very nearly smell the stables!' - 'Notes on the Month's Concerts', in
SIM, November 1912, cited in Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p266
'Sunday, 1 December: The Beethoven festival ... a necessary festival and on
consideration one that is most useful, in that it puts people at their ease.
One is merely called upon to admire, to exchange knowing smiles with the
right people at the right places. And they are always the same old places,
unchanging from one generation to the next.
On the way out people will say without hesitation, "That Beethoven - what a
genius he is!" How right they are! To hold the opposite view is no more than
stupid snobbery! These people thus need have no fear of having to sit
through the highly charged atmosphere which is found at the Sunday concerts
whenever the work of a young composer is being played. There, one has to
hold an opinion and that's not always convenient.' - SIM, December 1912,
Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p271
'Geniuses can evidently do without taste: take the case of Beethoven, for
example.' - SIM, 15 February 1913, Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p277
Debussy seemed to become more deeply appreciative of Beethoven's merits (in
particular those of the late quartets) soon after this.
'Let us forget for now the deplorable Rust affair, an affair that has
brought together both those who truly love music without any show of pride
or ill-temper and those whose business it is to look after the Masters,
preparing their own apologias for each one - an excellent way to have the
final say-so.
The ironic thing about this affair is that it has ended up by raising our
estimation of Beethoven. He emerges as a young revolutionary opposed to the
old professor who never makes a mistake; they were about to reproach him for
having written his last quartets. But let us not dwell on this matter; the
Rusts of this world are an innumerable race who fulfill our eternal desire
for the mediocre. We shoudl be silently thankful that occasionally there is
a Beethoven who appears on the scene to bring music back into its true
focus.' - SIM, 15 May 1913, Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p287
'First of all, our musicians willingly allowed themselves to be inspired by
the symphonic poems of Liszt and of Richard Strauss. And note, furthermore,
that any attempts at emancipation were soon forcibly quelled. Each time
anyone tried to break free from this inherited tradition he was brought to
order, crushed beneath the weight of the more illustrious examples.
Beethoven - who ought really be permitted to take a well-earned rest from
criticism - was brought to the rescue. Those severe old critics passed
judgement and threatened terrible punishments for breach of the classical
rules whose construction - they should have realized - was nothing less than
mechanical.' - SIM, 1 November 1913, Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p296
'Even at this very moment, when France is sacrificing the blood of her best
children, without regard for birthright or class, one hears some strange
proposals about Beethoven put forward: Flemish or German, he was a great
musician.' - 'Preface in the Form of a Letter to Pour la Musique Francaise:
Douze Causeries', December 1916, Lesure/Langham Smith, op cit, p324
