CFV: rec.music.classical.recordings
Ron Asbestos Dippold
unmoderated group rec.music.classical.recordings
Newsgroups line:
rec.music.classical.recordings Classical music on CD, vinyl, cassette, etc.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 22 December 1994.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdip...@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact James Chokey <jch...@leland.stanford.edu>
CHARTER
Rec.music.classical.recordings is a forum for the discussion
of recordings of classical music on any format (CD, vinyl, cassette,
videotape/videodisc, etc.) This includes (but is by no means limited to):
* Reviews/reccomendations of new and old recordings
* Requests for reccomendations (i.e. "What recording of X
should I buy?")
* Comparative discussions of different recordings
* Questions/discussion about the availability of specific
recordings or specific pieces
* Discographical discussion
* Discussion of places to buy recordings of classical music
Posting between rec.music.classical.recordings and rec.music.classical
is discouraged.
Rationale (taken from the RFD):
Rec.music.classical is a high traffic group, receiving around 200
posts per day and between 1300-1500 posts per week, on average. During
the past several months, there has been a regular undercurrent of dis-
cussion on the possibility of splitting the group. Few practical ideas,
however, have been put forward regarding just how a split might be
effected. The one idea that has gained substantial support, and which
many r.m.c readers feel might be an effective way to effect a "compromise"
is to simply create a new group in the r.m.c.* hierarchy for the discussion
of recordings of classical music. Discussions and reccomendations of
recordings constitute a sizable chunk of the discussion on rec.music.classical.
Based on a random sampling I did of 200 posts, there were 49 posts (approx.
25%) which clearly fell into the "Reccomendations wanted," "Which version
of x should I get," and "Is there a good recording of y available?"
varieties. Additionally, the fact that the discussion of recordings
constitutes a fairly easy-to-define body of discourse makes the possibility
of a *.recordings group much more viable than some of the other proposals
which were being bandied about. So, I am proposing the creation of rec.
music.classical.recordings in order to move all recordings-related traffic
to a separate newsgroup. By doing this, the amount of traffic on r.m.c.
should go down considerably (approx. 25%), but yet the change will be modest
enough that it should not overly rankle those folks who are opposed to seeing
r.m.c. split up into multiple newsgroups.
HOW TO VOTE
Send MAIL to: vot...@qualcomm.com
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
Your mail message should contain one of the following statements:
I vote YES on rec.music.classical.recordings
I vote NO on rec.music.classical.recordings
You may also ABSTAIN in place of YES/NO - this will not affect the outcome.
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
One vote counted per person, no more than one per account. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
Fred Goldrich
As I have pointed out recently, the most common argument
against the formation of this group -- namely, that threads about
recordings can be distinguished by the subject line -- has proven
to be largely false. While some subjects are self-explanatory,
most are not, and despite repeated pleas and assurances, recent
traffic has shown *not a single* subject line with an identifying
'REC' tag.
Please, let's do it. Vote 'YES.'
-- Fred Goldrich
--
Fred Goldrich
gold...@panix.com
--
Fred Goldrich
gold...@panix.com
Philip F. Wight
classical music forum. When you begin talking about a particular
composer or orchestra one almost always will refer to particular
performances and/or recordings. Some traffic cop is going to be forever
moving posts back and forth, or advising posters that they are in the
wrong pew, etc.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
Phil
-------------------------
Fred Goldrich (gold...@panix.com) wrote: : Hi folks --
--
Philip F. Wight <pwi...@rahul.net>
Jim_...@transarc.com
> Hi folks --
>
> As I have pointed out recently, the most common argument
> against the formation of this group -- namely, that threads about
> recordings can be distinguished by the subject line -- has proven
> to be largely false.
I don't know about "the most common argument." My reasons against it
(and why I voted "no") is that it's not all that easy to divide
"recordings" from everything else. Much of the time, the "which
Beethoven recordings are best" is also a discussion of condutors, of
performes, and so forth. A discussion of whether Karajan is a good
Beethoven conductor doesn't seem to me to be about "recordings" even
if some of the discussion involves them.
******************************************************************
Jim Mann jm...@transarc.com
Transarc Corporation
The Gulf Tower, 707 Grant Street, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 (412) 338-4442
WWW Homepage:
file://grand.central.org/afs/transarc.com/public/jmann/html/Home.html
Football players, somewhere back in their phylogenic development,
learned how to talk like football coaches. ("Our goals this week were
to contain Dickerson and control the line of scrimmage.") Baseball
players say things like, "This pitcher's so bad that when he comes in,
the grounds crew drags the warning track."
-- Tom Boswell, "99 Reasons Why Baseball Is Better than Football"
HenryFogel
<pwi...@rahul.net> writes:
>It's going to be hard as hell to isolate recording talk from the
>classical music forum. When you begin talking about a particular
>composer or orchestra one almost always will refer to particular
>performances and/or recordings. Some traffic cop is going to be forever
>moving posts back and forth, or advising posters that they are in the
>wrong pew, etc.
>Just my 2 cents worth.
>Cheers,
>Phil
My two cents is firmly with Phil.
HenryFogel
----
L Scanlon
As some other posters have pointed out, when discussing composers,
conductors, and performers, it's only natural to mention their available
recordings. And for *performing* issues, there is already
rec.music.classical.performing.
Leo Scanlon
A replicant
Okay- you're right and you're wrong- you're right that, if the
new group were intended to TOTALLY separate discussions involving
particular recordings from the regular r.m.c. chat, it would
cause numerous headaches.
You're wrong, however, in what the new group's purpose is.
The new group is used as an area to post requests for suggestions
about pieces and to post suggestions. This means that if you're
talking about Brahms in r.m.c. and you want to mention a particular
recording to back up your talk, or whatever- you can use it.
The new group wouldn't banish reference to particular recordings
from r.m.c., it makes a domain for the SUBJECT of purchasing recordings.
That is: if the subject of the post is about buying a recording, it goes to
recordings- if the subject of a post is not about a recording- it goes to
r.m.c.
Simple. You still get to refer to recordings in r.m.c., you just
post exclusively about them in r.m.c.recordings. (An emphasis, of
course, is aksing for or suggesting recommendations of certain pieces'
recordings.)
>HenryFogel
>----
--
"It's still hard for me to have a clear mind thinking on it.
But it's the truth even if it didn't happen."
Stan Szpakowicz
>The new group wouldn't banish reference to particular recordings
>from r.m.c., it makes a domain for the SUBJECT of purchasing recordings.
>That is: if the subject of the post is about buying a recording, it goes to
>recordings- if the subject of a post is not about a recording- it goes to
>r.m.c.
You just inflicted damage on your side. Reducing the domain to _buying_
makes the group you want created narrow and uninteresting. The reason I
might ask about performances of a piece (note: performances, not recordings
and not CDs, as in rec.music.classical.cds that Mario seems to want to vote
for ;^) could be to compare opinions or to confirm my choices rather than
consider a dollar transaction. And yes, sometimes to learn about the music
itself -- many advice-givers offer reasons worth knowing.
For those who can't read scores (yours truly among them) performances and,
consequently, recordings ARE music. For those who can, I suppose, scores
without performances may feel incomplete. Splitting off performances would
probably take all music with it, so why split?
I am willing to concede that announcements of sales at Tower in Boston or
New York, posted to the world, leave me cold (I live in a cold place :-),
but I am happy to skip them when I see them. Other than that, the group we
have now is dandy. I voted NO to the new group and thus to the duality it
would create quite, in my view, unnecessarily.
--
Dr. Stan Szpakowicz :: Univ. of Ottawa :: Dept. of Computer Science
sz...@csi.uottawa.ca :: tel. +613 564 2450 :: fax +613 564 9486
(also at sz...@dal.carleton.ca, Carleton Univ.)
James Alexander Chokey
Stan Szpakowicz <sz...@sebastian.carleton.ca> wrote:
>A replicant <ep...@hubcap.clemson.edu> wrote:
>
>>The new group wouldn't banish reference to particular recordings
>>from r.m.c., it makes a domain for the SUBJECT of purchasing recordings.
>>That is: if the subject of the post is about buying a recording, it goes to
>>recordings- if the subject of a post is not about a recording- it goes to
>>r.m.c.
>
>You just inflicted damage on your side. Reducing the domain to _buying_
>makes the group you want created narrow and uninteresting.
Mr. Replicant was incorrect when he claimed that the proposed
recording group was only about purchasing recordings or about buying
recordings. To clarify any misperceptions about what this group would
be, here is a copy of the charter that is currently being voted on in the
CFV:
>CHARTER:
>
> Rec.music.classical.recordings is a forum for the discussion
>of recordings of classical music on any format (CD, vinyl, cassette,
>videotape/videodisc, etc.) This includes (but is by no means limited to):
>
> * Reviews/reccomendations of new and old recordings
> * Requests for reccomendations (i.e. "What recording of X
> should I buy?")
> * Comparative discussions of different recordings
> * Questions/discussion about the availability of specific
> recordings or specific pieces
> * Discographical discussion
> * Discussion of places to buy recordings of classical music
>
>Cross-posting between rec.music.classical.recordings and rec.music.classical
>is discouraged.
I hope this clears things up.
-- Jim C.
==========================================================================
| James A. Chokey jch...@leland.stanford.edu |
| |
| Alas! Coquettes are but too rare. |
| -- Disraeli |
==========================================================================
John Proffitt
all aspects of classical music. I, too, think it will be impossible to
"isolate" discussion of recordings from discussions of "just" music. A
single posting can easily cover multiple points about a particular piece of
music, a conductor, or whatever, with internal references to available
recordings.
I vote NO, thank you.
Tony Wilson
David Mark Das
> I vot YES on rec.music.classical.recordings
NOT HERE, DUMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) E-mail them!!!
Ron Asbestos Dippold
unmoderated group rec.music.classical.recordings
CHARTER
HOW TO VOTE
rec.music.classical.recordings Bounce List - No need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce...@worldbank.org
Ron Asbestos Dippold
unmoderated group rec.music.classical.recordings passes 178:64
There were 178 YES votes and 64 NO votes, for a total of 242 valid votes.
There were 2 abstains.
For group passage, YES votes must be at least 2/3 of all valid (YES and NO)
votes. There also must be at least 100 more YES votes than NO votes.
There is a five day discussion period after these results are posted. If no
serious allegations of voting irregularities are raised, the moderator of
news.announce.newgroups will create the group shortly thereafter.
Newsgroups line:
rec.music.classical.recordings Classical music on CD, vinyl, cassette, etc.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
CHARTER
rec.music.classical.recordings Final Vote Ack
Voted Yes
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1685...@MSU.EDU Renato.Cerdena
aar...@netcom.com Aaron Priven
abro...@cc.swarthmore.edu Aaron Brockett
ag...@freenet.carleton.ca Colin R. Leech
AHER...@us.oracle.com Ana Hernandez
am...@showme.missouri.edu Alan Munn
Ann_Ta...@mindlink.bc.ca Ann Tanlimco
ar...@thp1.if.uj.edu.pl Artur Pioro
au...@cs.albany.edu Jim Ault
Aur...@world.std.com Melinda D Hart
awi...@us.oracle.com Adam Winer
bar...@physunc.phy.uc.edu Gershom Barnard
bl...@cam.nist.gov James L Blue
bo...@crl.com Robert Zawalski
b...@world.std.com Bernard S Greenberg
can...@ziggy.dsd.ES.COM Gary Cannon
c...@ironwood.cray.com Chris Brewster
cbs...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Christopher Bradford Stone
c...@ludd.luth.se Christer Ekholm
cla...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM Claire
clo...@rpi.edu John P. Cloninger
cl...@midway.uchicago.edu Cory L. Scott
clst...@mailbox.syr.edu Chris Stamper
Conrad_Chu-1%no...@sb.com Conrad Chu-1
cor...@stna7.stna.dgac.fr Cornec ESLOG p8023 BD17
cr...@cus.cam.ac.uk Colin Bell
csm...@gabriel.hsv.trw.com Cassius Smith
cur...@plume.mit.edu Curtis Heisey
d...@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de Christine Waigl
dave...@mycenae.demon.co.uk David C Hall
david...@wfe.com David Birk
da...@miro.demon.co.uk David Baker
da...@roth-music.com David A. Roth
davi...@wharton.upenn.edu Scott Somers Davidson
dc...@cornell.edu David C. Hall
dd...@jove.acs.unt.edu David Mark Das
de...@dewey.nl.nuwc.navy.mil Sami Deeb
dgre...@sunlab.cit.cornell.edu
Doug....@cs.cmu.edu
dpbs...@world.std.com Daniel P. B. Smith
dre...@brownvm.brown.edu Drew Kim
DRUE...@orgel.shnet.org Dr.G.Ruediger
dsm...@bronze.coil.com David Smith
dth...@gonix.gonix.com Dave Thacker
ebea...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Elizabeth Jane Beaumont Bissell
ebed...@mailbox.syr.edu Ellen B. Edgerton
eijk...@cs.utk.edu
eng3...@cobra.nus.sg Tang Yee Soong
ep...@hubcap.clemson.edu A replicant
es...@oslonett.no Espen Kristensen
Even....@due.unit.no Even Flood
Falp...@aol.com
fc...@octave.demon.co.uk Francis Cox
fern...@cps.msu.edu Jose Roberto Fernandez
fma...@nyx10.cs.du.edu Farhan Malik
fran...@aztec.inre.asu.edu GREG FRANKLIN
g942...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca Craig Burley
gal...@galaxy.be Kees de Visser
GFR...@charlie.usd.edu
gho...@Uswnvg.COM Gary Howard
gka...@interaccess.com George Katele
Glenn_Wo...@mindlink.bc.ca Glenn Woodsworth
glg...@engr.psu.edu Gary L. Gray
gmi...@bostech.com
gold...@panix.com Fred Goldrich
gr...@netcom.com Kiran Wagle
gsm...@math.utoledo.edu Gene Ward Smith
gt0...@prism.gatech.edu
han...@xs4all.nl Hans Schotel
haven%hot...@hotspot.geof.ruu.nl Dolf van der Haven
her...@elektro.tih.no Herman Ranes
HEV...@CLEMSON.EDU
h...@hhdo.ping.de Henning Holtschneider
hox...@max.tiac.net Herbert J Oxley
ho...@phys.unca.edu Matt Hoyle
iw...@cus.cam.ac.uk Ian Jackson
J.Wi...@UB.RULIMBURG.NL
james....@chemistry.gatech.edu Jim Powers
j...@encap.Hanse.DE Jan-Oliver Neumann
jch...@leland.Stanford.EDU James Alexander Chokey
jc...@cyberspace.com Jim Cook
jd...@Pantaleon.cesma.usb.ve G. Javier Diaz Ch.
je...@agora.rdrop.com Jeff Winslow
jg2...@coewl.cen.uiuc.edu John Robert Grout
j...@summit.novell.com
jmcg...@uoguelph.ca
john...@aztec.inre.asu.edu JOHN NEMEROVSKI
jpat...@willamette.edu Jane Patterson
jron...@unixg.ubc.ca Jean-Pierre Rondeau
JSCH...@nova.wright.edu Jim Schwartz
ju...@umich.edu Justine Leon Uro
kee...@wustlb.wustl.edu Richard M. Keeling
k...@cunyvms1.gc.cuny.edu Bob Kosovsky
kqw...@ouray.Denver.Colorado.EDU KENNETH Q WONG
kr...@csd.uwm.edu Brian D.
ku...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Kunal Bose
kw...@lns598.lns.cornell.edu Youngjoon Kwon
La...@physio.wa.com Lantz Rowland
lca...@cis.ohio-state.edu lawanna j casto
le...@ecf.toronto.edu Michael Lee
le...@scs.po.my Lee Yew Seng
lgo...@garoe.datsi.fi.upm.es Luis Gomez
list-...@dream.hb.north.de Martin Schroeder
lk...@andrew.cmu.edu Lisa R Kouvolo
ma...@po.CWRU.Edu Michael A. Chary
mar...@firmware.com.au Marius Coomans
mes...@engin.umich.edu Matt Messina
mez...@cambridge.village.com Mimi Ezust
m...@ac.duke.edu Michael Grubb
mic...@caad.ed.ac.uk Michael Ramscar
m...@G.GP.CS.CMU.EDU
mkw...@sdcc13.ucsd.edu Myra Wong
mma...@oxas.demon.co.uk Michael R. Mayer
mod...@netcom.com Modemac
mrst...@mailbox.syr.edu Marjorie R. Stamper
musi...@indy.net Brent Miller
nat...@bwh.harvard.edu Nathan Mehl
ni...@inferno.fc.hp.com Nick Ingegneri
nv90...@nada.kth.se
nwbe...@eecs.umich.edu NICHOLAS W BEESON
OGU...@edison.usask.ca
Olaf....@Helsinki.FI Olaf Laczak
o...@fm.unit.no Ole Martin Halck
ovill...@daimi.aau.dk Ole Villumsen
PA...@WPMAIL.NOTIS.COM
pe...@leo.SGS.ES.HAC.COM Peter Jennings
pete...@risoe.dk Thomas Petersen
pe...@ismennt.is Petur Thorsteinsson
pie...@shell.portal.com Pierre Uszynski
Porter...@msfc.nasa.gov J. Porter Clark
radr...@panix.com Rebecca Drayer
rap...@indirect.com Raphael Carter
ra...@uclink.berkeley.edu Dipanjan Ray
rdm...@srv.PacBell.COM Ralph Miller
rhar...@library.unt.edu Ralph Hartsock 2860
rh...@skidmore.EDU richard hihn
rhw...@hubcap.clemson.edu Rake of the Loch *Shmoo*
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
rlja...@crl.com Rhea Jacobs
ro...@baan.nl Ronald Bussink
rod...@hpfcla.fc.hp.com Bruce Rodean
r...@hpp.stanford.edu Bob Engelmore
ruf...@cae.wisc.edu
rv...@sebb.bel.alcatel.be Rik Verstraete
ry...@odouls.stx.com patrick m. ryan
ryw...@unixg.ubc.ca Roderick Wong
S.Nic...@edinburgh.ac.uk Sandy Nicholson
S.R.E....@statslab.cam.ac.uk Stephen Turner
sal...@ecn.purdue.edu Salah S Zenieh
sal...@climate.gsfc.nasa.gov Eric P. Salathe, Jr
sar...@pencom.com Rob Sartin
sde...@hubcap.clemson.edu S. Del Collo
sha...@faceplant.gvg.TEK.COM The Great Pumpkin
shim...@cs.nps.navy.mil timothy shimeall
sjd...@maths.ex.ac.uk S J Drew
smad...@awod.com Steve Madancy
Smh...@aol.com
sn...@gov.nt.ca Shaun Dean
spja...@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu Stephen Jacobs
stct...@shrsys.hslc.org Noel S. McFerran
tab...@mtha.usc.edu Mario Taboada
ta...@watson.ibm.com Carl Tait ((914) 784-6584)
tc...@wooten.unt.edu TIM CHEN
tcn...@engin.umich.edu Ta Chen Ni
tegt...@phantom.com John Tegtmeier
the...@csd.uwm.edu Thelma Lubkin
tjh...@dorsai.dorsai.org Thomas Hubschman
tomp...@intac.com Philip Tompkins
tor...@oslonett.no Tore B. Oestensen
uce...@ucl.ac.uk ucecw02
ude...@bay.cc.kcl.ac.uk F. Xia
uom...@basilisk.Eng.Sun.COM Robert Uomini [CONTRACTOR]
ur...@miser.umass.edu Richard R Uren~a
uunet!robcad!jo...@uunet.uu.net
wk...@netcom.com William Kasimer
wo...@cps.msu.edu
wong...@cps.msu.edu Peter C Wong
yada...@Doctor.ampr.ab.ca Dave Shariff Yadallee
Voted No
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and...@bj-42.rh.uchicago.edu
arc...@frmug.fr.net Vincent Archer
art...@cs.kun.nl Arthur ter Hofstede
awe...@dciem.dnd.ca Andrew Welker
Ay....@cwi.nl
b250...@csie.ntu.edu.tw student
be...@nada.kth.se
Bruce...@worldbank.org
br...@well.sf.ca.us Bryan Higgins
BUBB...@delphi.com
cat...@netcom.com Mark Kupferman
ch...@ulb.ac.be Ohn Christian
c...@uchicago.edu Chris Koenigsberg
CL...@maxvax.scubed.com Jim Clow (619)576-7506
crou...@flidh103.delcoelect.com Kenneth P Crouch
D.S.L...@durham.ac.uk
Daria.W...@informatik.med.uni-giessen.de
dav...@infi.net David Fox
dc...@utpapa.ph.utexas.edu David M. Cook
di...@athene.informatik.uni-bonn.de Stephan Dick
d...@panix.com Dillon Read
el...@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Eugene Lau
e...@panix.com Emery Lapinski
fc...@msg.ti.com Francois Charlot
GOOD...@delphi.com
gt5...@prism.gatech.edu Pete 'Happy' Thomas
gus...@physics.rutgers.edu Torgny Gustafsson
Henry...@aol.com
h...@eng.cam.ac.uk Haig Utidjian
Iain.L...@brunel.ac.uk Iain G Liddell
idea...@amanda.dorsai.org Jeff Harrington
IO2...@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Brent Sutherland
jak...@unix.amherst.edu Josh Klein
jb...@cs.umb.edu Joan Boorstein
jcmu...@cadman.cit.buffalo.edu Jeff Murphy
je...@loki.engr.sgi.com Jeff C. Glover
je...@theory.lcs.mit.edu Jesse Lawton Clark
Jim_...@transarc.com
Joh...@aol.com
jpro...@UH.EDU John Proffitt
jsk...@lulu.acns.nwu.edu
jtb...@cs1.presby.edu Jon Bell
kim...@astrosun.TN.CORNELL.EDU Paul Kimoto
labo...@csc.albany.edu S. LaBonne
la...@rosa.informatik.uni-bonn.de Christoph Clemens Lahme
M.Wh...@law.gu.edu.au Michael Whincop
md...@cornell.edu Molly Diesing
mi...@cc.bellcore.com
m...@CS.Stanford.EDU Michael Wolverton
pa...@cgh.com Paul Homchick
ptb...@owl.WPI.EDU Pete Bastien
rap...@research.canon.oz.au Andrew Raphael
rh...@scs.unr.edu Ryan M. Hare
s934...@sfc.keio.ac.jp Yoshiyuki Mukudai
sal...@scubed.scubed.com Joe Sallay
s...@marlin.ssnet.com Steven Chung
sma...@turing.toronto.edu Smarasderagd
so...@harlow.harvard.edu Somak Raychaudhury
stai...@bga.com Dwight Brown
sta...@strix.udac.uu.se Martin Kulldorff
sz...@csi.UOttawa.CA Stan Szpakowicz
t...@netcom.com Thomas G. McWilliams
Willia...@cs.ida.org wh...@ida.org
y4b...@lvas00.lvas.srv.PacBell.COM Yibo Dong
Abstained
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
m...@RedBrick.COM M Mike Taksar KC6ZPS
ss...@andrew.cmu.edu Sam Swett
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