The recorder vs. the bagpipes
DAN TALBOT
Answer: bagpipes burn longer, but both are gosh-awful sounding as
musical instruments. The accordian sounds better than the recorder.
Come to think of it, so does the kazzoo !
So howcome classical radio stations still play recorder music? UGH!
Conjures images of white powdered wigs, scroll-top desks and quill pens
and a PBS masterpiece play: sheer boredom.
Dan Talbot
David Chamberlain
Hayward) wrote:
>In message <313ab300...@news.demon.co.uk>
> da...@leguer.demon.co.uk (David Chamberlain) writes:
>
>> Even hearing experienced
>> practioners of this aural torture device revives memories of my
>> schooldays where it was the instrument given to the tone deaf so they
>> could 'participate'. The inevitable result being a cacaphony of
>> screeching assualting the eardrums (sounds like Maxwell-Davies)
>
>I assume that you were given a recorder.
>
No, during music lessons at school being one of those taking private
lessons on the piano I was forced to accompany these and thus missed
out on playing the recorder. I heard a recital of recorder music at a
freebie RFH lunchtime concert recently when I was visiting the record
shop there. Very pleasant it was too, but it still conjured up this
particular memory of a fat girl with puffed out cheeks blowing this
damnable plastic recorder as hard as she could in the hope that it
would make a better noise.
Music often stimulates memories in me, another unpleasant one is of
hearing Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah for the first time
belted out at maximum volume by chortling old trouts from the
Wolverhampton Civic? Choir about 20 years ago Conversely pleasant
ones (which far outnumber those not so) is the first time I heard the
Seigfreid Funeral March from Gotterdamurung in the cheap seats at
Convent Garden or the Allegri Miserere sung in Westminster Abbey.
david
Charles J. Lord
***ANY*** instrument, played poorly, is an irritant!
A recorder consort consisting of skilled players, playing well-arranged
music, using decent, in-tune instruments (YES THESE EXIST) can produce
music that can thrill the heart and touch the soul. I have the honor and
pleasure of participating in such a group (with my mediocre skills) and
am amazed at the enthusiastic response we get whenever we perform.
I also contend that a bagpipe, properly played with a good piece of
music, in the proper setting, can be a joy. Until you have heard the
strains of pipes rolling through the Scottish hills in a fresh morning
mist, do not pass judgement on this instrument. It can truly be a
religious experience.
Again, any instrument can be played poorly, or in the wrong setting. I
have been assaulted by young recorder or flutophone choruses, 30 students
playing 30 recorders at 30 DIFFERENT pitches. I have also been mugged by
bagpipes (about a regiment) in an indoor room that would have been better
suited for chamber music (six years later my ears still ring). I could
name instances of other instruments that have been misused, but so could
all of you. Just don't pass judgement just because you haven't heard an
instrument in its proper context. And what is wrong with powdered wigs,
roll-top desks, and Masterpiece Theatre anyway???
Now, if you want to ban an instrument, I personally think all
steel-string guitars (of country and Hawaiian music fame) ought to be
burned!!! (no smilies here - I mean it)
Charles Lord
T. Sax, Bass Recorder, Clairnet, and sometimes Oboe...
c...@mercury.interpath.net
Neil Tingley
<c...@mercury.interpath.net> writes
>Sorry, but I must plunge into the fray. You have struck too raw a nerve.
>
>***ANY*** instrument, played poorly, is an irritant!
>
>A recorder consort consisting of skilled players, playing well-arranged
>music, using decent, in-tune instruments (YES THESE EXIST) can produce
>music that can thrill the heart and touch the soul. I have the honor and
>pleasure of participating in such a group (with my mediocre skills) and
>am amazed at the enthusiastic response we get whenever we perform.
>
>I also contend that a bagpipe, properly played with a good piece of
>music, in the proper setting, can be a joy. Until you have heard the
>strains of pipes rolling through the Scottish hills in a fresh morning
>mist, do not pass judgement on this instrument. It can truly be a
>religious experience.
Well, as a Scot, this is an experience which I've not enjoyed. We are
inundated by pipers playing in Prince's Street here in Edinburgh. The
sound grates especially if you are close by - one piper always seems to
be playing outside Marks and Spencer, and at the corner of Waverley
Bridge.
There is a mystic lure in the old music of the Gaels however, which was
handed down through one family principally, the McCrimmonds of Skye,
pipers to the Lord of the Isles.
Good pipers are not heard very often, but can be a joy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Tingley Furtwaengler FAQ from r.m.c.r contributers at:
ne...@music.demon.co.uk http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/music/furt.html
Edinburgh, SCOTLAND * GG mailing list: f_m...@gandalf.rutgers.edu *
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A & P Barnett
<Pine.SUN.3.91.960310...@gigue.peabody.jhu.edu>, "James
H. Young" <jhy...@peabody.jhu.edu> wrote:
> I never defended any unmusical performance of the recorder.
> I *know* that recorder performances are subjected to the same poor treatment
> as performances of ANY instrument. Can you tell me in which live
> performance or recording does Bruggen "push[] the boundaries of the
> instrument beyond the laws of physics?" I'd be interested to know.
>
I went to hear Bruggen play a concert in Boston's Jordan Hall circa 1980.
It remains the only time I've heard him. I still have vivid memories of
the concert, the main one being the out of tune playing. Many, many
phrases Bruggen ended with a musically sensible diminuendo accompanied by
an extremely unmusical flatting of the pitch. I left the hall with no
desire to hear Bruggen play again, and with the distinct impression that
the useful dynamic range of the recorder is extremely narrow. He also
played some modern pieces that featured multiphonics (called mistakes when
played by a beginner) and other rather un-musical effects. I think it is
accurate to describe the performance as an attempt to "push the boundaries
of the instrument beyond the laws of physics". Maybe he was having on off
night; but in any case his intonation was terrible and his performance
seemed hamstrung by the technical limitations of the instrument.
Mike Starke
[snip]
>. Maybe he was having on off
>night; but in any case his intonation was terrible and his performance
>seemed hamstrung by the technical limitations of the instrument.
You make Mr Bruggen's poor performance sound like the
instrument is at fault. If I drive my car off a cliff am I exceeding
the technical limitations of my vehicle or just being stupid?
I don't drive my car like and airplane and I don't play my recorder
like a traverso!
MJS
"Give to every instrument its due.
The player will be pleased, and so will you."
---GP Telemann
Collections of my music:
Classical MIDI Connection
http://www.dtx.net:80/~raborn/starke.html
And:
Classical MIDI Archives
http://www.prs.net/starke.html
Nicholas Bodley
Charles Lord's mention of 30 flutophones all at different pitches
reminds me of an experience some time ago in which I was the only wind
player among about a dozen folk guitarists; they had their instruments
tuned over the range of about a semitone.
So Mr. Lord doesn't like even John Renbourn playing e.m. on steel
strings? Aw, gee... I love his e.m. playing; maybe I'm unsophisticated,
but John seems to understand very well the essence of the music he plays.
I also like some of the Travis picking I've heard, but that's for another
newsgroup.
----------------------------------------------------*
NB Nicholas Bodley Autodidact & Polymath |*| Keep smiling! It makes |
Waltham, Mass. Electronic Technician |*| people wonder what |
nbo...@tiac.net Amateur musician |*| you have been up to. |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Nicholas Bodley
Now that I'm reminded of it, I also recall Bruggen's weird "drooping"
of pitch. Why did he do it?
----------------
On 18 Mar 1996, A & P Barnett wrote:
{Many snips}
>
> I went to hear Bruggen play a concert in Boston's Jordan Hall circa 1980.
> an extremely unmusical flatting of the pitch. I left the hall with no
----------------------------------------------------*
Neil Tingley
<ta...@news.cs.columbia.edu> writes
>In article <+onWmCAb...@music.demon.co.uk>,
>Neil Tingley <ne...@neil.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>There is a mystic lure in the old music of the Gaels however, which was
>>handed down through one family principally, the McCrimmonds of Skye,
>>pipers to the Lord of the Isles.
>
>classical music of the bagpipe, is generally unappealing to all but
>the most hardened bagpipe fans. For those who are unfamiliar with
>piobaireachd, it's kind of a cross between theme-and-variations and
>a chaconne. The main theme is stated in the "urlar" (ground), and
>the variations build on the outline of the tune with increasingly
>complex embellishments. There's a da capo of the urlar at the end.
>
>Also, I've always seen the spelling "MacCrimmon" instead of "McCrimmond."
>Is either one acceptable? I certainly agree that the music of the
>MacCrimmon hereditary pipers is among the best music written for the
>instrument (do you know the "Lament for Patrick Og"?).
I was displaying my ignorance ! I don't follow pipe music that much. The
best place to hear it is at the Mod, the annual festival of all Gaelic
art. Much of the "folk" music in Edinburgh is too Irish for my taste.
Give me a good Ceilidh (sp ?) band any day. That's a real treat
especially with a good dose of whisky in the system. Real "whisky
galore" stuff - the most sentimental of all Scottish films set to a
story by Compton MacKenzie, the founder of Gramophone.
Some old Scots fiddle music is very fine, though again you don't always
here it. The Shetland players are fascinating. Aly Bain who lives in
Edinburgh is an extraordindary player with a technique that would
impress any seasoned violinist. And I think some of the burns songs are
as beautiful as Schubert, especially my Love is like a red, red rose or
Ae Fond Kiss.
Carl Tait
Neil Tingley <ne...@music.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I was displaying my ignorance ! I don't follow pipe music that much. The
>best place to hear it is at the Mod, the annual festival of all Gaelic
>art.
When is this held? Sounds like I'd really enjoy this festival, and
I'd like to keep it in mind for my next trip across the Atlantic.
>Much of the "folk" music in Edinburgh is too Irish for my taste.
>Give me a good Ceilidh (sp ?) band any day. That's a real treat
>especially with a good dose of whisky in the system.
Oddly enough, the states along the southeastern coast of the U.S.
have a number of pipe bands and Scottish festivals -- particularly
in Georgia and the Carolinas. There are many people of Scottish
descent in that part of the country. I played the pipes in about
a gazillion ceilidhs as a teenager. Lots of fun, except when you're
wearing a kilt and a wool jacket in the middle of July.
>Some old Scots fiddle music is very fine, though again you don't always
>here it. The Shetland players are fascinating.
I'm not familiar with this music, and will try to find some recordings.
This thread has inspired me to give the piano a rest this week and pick
up my practice chanter to work on "MacLeod's Rowing Piobaireachd."
Perhaps "The Lament for the Children" would be more appropriate....
Carl Tait
Nancy Nystul
> So Mr. Lord doesn't like even John Renbourn playing e.m. on steel
> strings? Aw, gee... I love his e.m. playing; maybe I'm unsophisticated,
> but John seems to understand very well the essence of the music he plays.
> I also like some of the Travis picking I've heard, but that's for another
> newsgroup.
>
string guitar, but the pedal steel guitar, a rather odd instrument with up
to 10 strings played with a slide, and pedals that change the strings'
notes, much like a modern harp mechanism. It's all the swooping (from the
slide and the pedals) that grates on so many ears.
Paul Opel
PO...@sover.net
Laura E Conrad
Now that I'm reminded of it, I also recall Bruggen's weird "drooping"
of pitch. Why did he do it?
I just last night acquired what might be an insight into this. At my
recorder lesson my teacher (a student of Bruggen's) was working on
getting me to keep my throat open all the time, and we did an exercise
where I didn't stop the air with my throat or tongue even when it was
running out. It was actually a fairly interesting sound.
I'm not suggesting Bruggen was doing this exercise in public, but he
might have been working on the problem of keeping the throat open and
overdoing it by accident.
--
Laura (lco...@world.std.com)
(617) 661-8097
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
Doug Ordunio
All you folks talking about bagpipes makes we want to put a gun to my
head. Bagpipes are great for funerals, and they are somewhat humorous
when some joker runs around in a restaurant on Burns' Night and plays
them, but come on!!
You know why a bagpiper walks when he(she) plays???
To get away from the noise.
Have fun!
DO
Nicholas Bodley
I may have lost track of the thread somewhat, but some of the indoor
"smallpipes" are about as offensive as a decent concertina, which if
well-played, is hardly at all. Consider the Northumbrian smallpipes, or a
musette (?).
Even the most-sophisticated bagpipes of all, the Irish uilleann (I'm
told it means "elbow" in Gaelic) pipes can be pretty tolerable for short
periods to non-enthusiasts.
Steve Lee
> pm...@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu (A & P Barnett) wrote:
> [snip]
>
> >. Maybe he was having on off
> >night; but in any case his intonation was terrible and his performance
> >seemed hamstrung by the technical limitations of the instrument.
>
> You make Mr Bruggen's poor performance sound like the
> instrument is at fault. If I drive my car off a cliff am I exceeding
> the technical limitations of my vehicle or just being stupid?
>
> I don't drive my car like and airplane and I don't play my recorder
> like a traverso!
>
But from what was said, Bruggen did. He tried a dimenuendo that exceded
the dynamic range at which that recorder could sound that note in tune,
and thus "seemed hamstrung by the techical limitations of the instrument."
A professor I had for composition started writing a piece for his friends
who had a recorder group. They played often at our afternoon chamber
concerts, and sounded glorious. The prof gave them a draft of his first
movement to read through, and when he heard it, he decided to abandon the
project. His ideas did not fit the characteristics (limitations?) of the
instruments.
In driving your car off the cliff, you are exceeding the technical
limitations of your vehicle. If you do it on purpose, it is stupid.
Whether on purpose or not, it is unhealthful.
PNathan240
<Now that I'm reminded of it, I also recall Bruggen's weird "drooping"
<of pitch. Why did he do it?
Well, I've often wondered that, too. Logically, he must have thought it
was either "authentic" or that it sounded good, right? As for sound,
fagedaboudit. I first heard him play at Berkeley in the late 60's:
magical. Then again in the late seventies: yuk, both because of over the
top pitch variation AND wooden tonguing. As for authentic, could never
find any support for the pitch-drooping in my library of baroque-period
treatises (Quantz, Tromlitz), contemporary interpretative guides
(Donington's two books) and recorder books (Rowland-Jones, Wollitz) ...
Phil Nathanson
Redondo Beach, CA
Charles J. Lord
: Nicholas Bodley writes:
: > So Mr. Lord doesn't like even John Renbourn playing e.m. on steel
: > strings? Aw, gee... I love his e.m. playing; maybe I'm unsophisticated,
: > but John seems to understand very well the essence of the music he plays.
: string guitar, but the pedal steel guitar, a rather odd instrument with up
: to 10 strings played with a slide, and pedals that change the strings'
: notes, much like a modern harp mechanism. It's all the swooping (from the
: slide and the pedals) that grates on so many ears.
You are quite correct; I have even played a steel-strung classical
guitar and enjoyed the bright tone. The pedal guitar is the culprit -
it is something like an aeolian harp in a typhoon, hooked to a Marshall
amp... The "swoop" as you put it is many times more irritating than pipes
could ever be (IMHO).
Don't get me wrong - picking at a guitar (classical or even country) is
NOT part of what I was condemning. Anyone who has heard Roy Clark's
stage show and has not been moved has a cold stone for a soul.
CJL
A440A
of a aesthetically challenged individual, it is murder, but under the
playing of Buddy Emmons, it can be anything.
regards,
Ed Foote
(I personally prefer the hurdy gurdy to either the bagpipes or recorder,
but the pedal steel is really a great instrument
Ed Foote
nashville
Anne Gwin
I couldn't agree more! Possibly the ears on which the pedal-steel guitar
grates belong to those poor benighted souls who didn't grow up on country
music. <teasing! see my grin?>
Anne, from Beaumont, TX, birthplace of Mark Chesnutt, close to where
George Jones is from...It may be in the water. :)
Rodney Myrvaagnes
used his knee to shade the bell of a renaissance treble. Lots of people were
offended by his playing, but few suggested it was accidental.
In message <LCONRAD.96...@world.std.com> - lco...@world.std.com
(Laura E Conrad) writes:
:>
:>In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960320...@sunspot.tiac.net> Nicholas Bodley <nbo...@sunspot.tiac.net> writes:
:>
:> Now that I'm reminded of it, I also recall Bruggen's weird "drooping"
:> of pitch. Why did he do it?
:>
:>I just last night acquired what might be an insight into this. At my
:>recorder lesson my teacher (a student of Bruggen's) was working on
:>getting me to keep my throat open all the time, and we did an exercise
:>where I didn't stop the air with my throat or tongue even when it was
:>running out. It was actually a fairly interesting sound.
:>
:>I'm not suggesting Bruggen was doing this exercise in public, but he
:>might have been working on the problem of keeping the throat open and
:>overdoing it by accident.
:>--
:> Laura (lco...@world.std.com)
:>(617) 661-8097
:>233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
:>
Rodney Myrvaagnes J36 Gjo/a
20 years without a car, TV, or home page
Roland Hutchinson
testing the limits of the instrument, pushing the envelope of its
expressive possibilities.
We wouldn't be where we are today if he hadn't done that. It also
made a lot of people stand up and notice the recorder, some of whom
went on to be counted the leading recorder virtuosi and teachers of
the 1990s. The quest for more expressive recorder playing also played
a role in convincing recorder makers to copy the voicing dimensions
and tonal design of historical instruments more closely than had been
the practice, even among the very best builders, in the 1960s.
If some people now think (or thought at the time) that Bruggen went
over the edge, then so be it.
You don't know where the edge is until you've been over it.
--
Roland Hutchinson Visiting Specialist/Early Music
rhut...@email.njin.net <==New preferred address! Dept. of Music
hutch...@alpha.montclair.edu Montclair State University
From All-in-1 at MSU: rhutchin@apollo@wins Upper Montclair, NJ 07043
Nicholas Bodley
On 23 Mar 1996, Charles J. Lord wrote:
> Nancy Nystul (PO...@sover.net) wrote:
> : Nicholas Bodley writes:
> : > So Mr. Lord doesn't like even John Renbourn playing e.m. on steel
> You are quite correct; I have even played a steel-strung classical
> guitar and enjoyed the bright tone. The pedal guitar is the culprit -
> it is something like an aeolian harp in a typhoon, hooked to a Marshall
> amp... The "swoop" as you put it is many times more irritating than pipes
> could ever be (IMHO).
>
> Don't get me wrong - picking at a guitar (classical or even country) is
> NOT part of what I was condemning. Anyone who has heard Roy Clark's
> stage show and has not been moved has a cold stone for a soul.
> CJL
Perhaps part of the reason I piped up (I play "duct flutes") was that I
have a Vega steel-string "classical" (12th fret at the body) guitar from
circa 1930; I like to tune it very carefully viol-style, and pick/pluck
out improvisations (and even a Playford tune once in a blue moon).
Perhaps Mr. Lord has no love, either, for the polyphonic portamento in
modern synthesizers, but I'm getting off-topic.
I'm glad this thread was resolved!
Nicholas Bodley
{Lots snipped! From Neil Tingley:}
> Give me a good Ceilidh (sp ?) band any day. That's a real treat
> especially with a good dose of whisky in the system. Real "whisky
> galore" stuff - the most sentimental of all Scottish films set to a
> story by Compton MacKenzie, the founder of Gramophone.
(Spelling's OK, btw: NB. "Ceilidh" is pronounced "kay-lee".) I've played
in many ceilidh-like gatherings, and they can be a lot of fun; much more
so than many consort sessions in NYC of the 1970s!
> Some old Scots fiddle music is very fine, though again you don't always
> hear it. The Shetland players are fascinating. Aly Bain who lives in
> Edinburgh is an extraordindary player with a technique that would
> impress any seasoned violinist. And I think some of the Burns songs are
> as beautiful as Schubert, especially my Love is like a red, red rose or
> Ae Fond Kiss.
>
I heartily agree, altho' I (unfortunately) haven't heard the songs
mentioned yet. Consider also Ronn McFarlane's performances of Scottish
lute music; they're a real treat, IMHO. (Not sure of spelling / Ronn McF.)
Chronologically, this qualifies as e.m., although not by conventional
understanding, I realize. There is a degree of crossover in the repertoire.
[Neil's .sig follows]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neil Tingley Furtwaengler FAQ from r.m.c.r contributers at:
> ne...@music.demon.co.uk http://www.netlink.co.uk/users/music/furt.html
> Edinburgh, SCOTLAND * GG mailing list: f_m...@gandalf.rutgers.edu *
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regards to all,
Laura E Conrad
I am convinced he used pitch consciously as an element of expression. He even
used his knee to shade the bell of a renaissance treble. Lots of people were
offended by his playing, but few suggested it was accidental.
When he deliberately shaded holes, I think he was trying to use
dynamics as an element of expression, and all the ways to produce
dynamic variation on the recorder also vary the pitch; thus various
ways to control the pitch. As Roland points out, he was one of the
first people to experiment with this, and some of his experiments were
more successful than others, and some of his students and their
students have been more successful than he was.
I don't believe he deliberately played out of tune, although he may
have used some tune variations as an ornament.
:>In article <Pine.SUN.3.91.960320...@sunspot.tiac.net> Nicholas Bodley <nbo...@sunspot.tiac.net> writes:
:>
:> Now that I'm reminded of it, I also recall Bruggen's weird "drooping"
:> of pitch. Why did he do it?
:>
In answer, I wrote:
:>I just last night acquired what might be an insight into this. At my
:>recorder lesson my teacher (a student of Bruggen's) was working on
:>getting me to keep my throat open all the time, and we did an exercise
:>where I didn't stop the air with my throat or tongue even when it was
:>running out. It was actually a fairly interesting sound.
:>
I am actually not at all an expert on Bruggen's playing, since I
didn't get involved in recorder playing until after he had stopped.
The word "drooping" reminded me of the sound I was getting out of this
exercise. My suggestion was that if it was something that happened at
the end of the note it may have resulted from some kind of experiment
in how to end a note.
Brian Blood
wrote:
Actually it is not correct to say that all ways that change the perceived
volume of a note cause a perceptible change in pitch. The secret is in
using the limited acuity of the human ear.
The ear integrates the incoming sound to determine the notes volume. A
longer note will seem louder than a shorter note, if the difference is
large enough. This 'trick' helps harpsichordists achieve small dynamic
changes on an instrument that is generally thought of as having an action
with no dynamic possibilities. So legato playing will appear stronger and
louder than detached staccato (rather than sforzando) playing.
A second way is through the use of alternative fingerings. To play very
quietly one needs a compensating fingering that is 'sharper' than the norm,
while to produce a loud note one will need a compensating fingering that is
'flatter' than the norm. These offer a considerable range of
possibilities.
A third way is to turn the instrument away from the audience when one
plays.
A fourth way is through the use of vibrato. An increased amount of vibrato
will strengthen the note without necessarily changing the perceived pitch.
This is something that need to be done with care - the vibrato should be
quick enough not to induce sea-sickness in the audience and delicate enough
not to sound like bleating sheep. By totally removing vibrato one drains
the note of colour and produces a relative quieting of the note.
There are also modern mechanical devices but I assume in this group these
would be considered too anachronistic.
Dr. Brian Blood * E-mail to: br...@be-blood.demon.co.uk
tel/fax (at home - autoswitch): +44-(0)1428-651473
tel (at work): +44-(0)1428-643235
fax (at work): +44-(0)1428-654920
also for Marguerite Dolmetsch / Dolmetsch Musical Instruments
Dolmetsch Summer School / Southern Early Music Forum
tlst...@deakin.edu.au
> wrote:
>
> >In article <4j3n9n$1...@cloner4.netcom.com> rod...@hearstelectroweb.com
(Rodney Myrvaagnes) writes:
> > I am convinced he used pitch consciously as an element of
expression. He even
> > used his knee to shade the bell of a renaissance treble. Lots of
people were
> > offended by his playing, but few suggested it was accidental.
> >I don't believe he deliberately played out of tune, although he may
> >have used some tune variations as an ornament.
Sometimes I wonder about the question of absolute values in relation to the parameters of musical sounds. Is there an absolute value for the terms fortissimo, forte, mezzoforte, piano, etc.?
Or for duration: is a crotchet ALWAYS double the duration of a quaver, and so forth?
The answer in both cases is clearly NO, and what is presented to the listener by the performer in response to the marks on the paper is very much determined by context as well as physical heft.
Surely the same flexibility or absence of absolutes exists also in the parameter we call pitch. We see a mark on the third line of a stave with a treble clef sign, and we identify the name of this note as B. But we have to recognise that there is an infinite number of pitches that can possibly carry this name B, from a pitch just too high to be safely called B flat, to another pitch just too low to be safely called C. We also know that because of the thing we call temperament, a given pitch to which we assign the name B has the potential to sound right in some chords or contexts, and wrong in others.
I have come to regard pitch, along with dynamics, note duration, articulation and tone colour as just one of the expressive resources available to be exploited. When the oboe commences its plaint at the beginning of the funeral march in Beethoven's Eroica, to me it sounds much more effective and heightens the expression if it is discernibly flat. The term "dead in tune" is one that needs a lot of thinking about because it implies the absolute values whose existence I now doubt. I have never been disconcerted or troubled by Frans Bruggen's manipulation of pitch, and have always considered it to be part of very legitimate exploitation of his instruments' expressive resources. Obviously it's a matter on which there is a wide spread of opinions. Anyway, this is mine. Comments?
---
Cheers!
Terry S.
Brian Blood
This raises very interesting points and as usual I am happy to be one of
the first into the fray. Clearly the relationship between note lengths and
note pitches will have to be flexible if it is going to allow for 'note's
inegal', rubato, acceleration and deceleration, in the first case and mean
and other tuning systems in the latter case. While one might allow
considerable flexibility in solo work (but not when a fixed meter or a
strong harmonic substructure is implied in the writing) this freedom would
not exist in ensemble playing otherwise why 'invent' the 'conductor'. A
common idea of what pitch, temperament, and tempo is needed for a good
ensemble is desirable and any rubato or other flexibility should not
sacrifice the coherence of the performance, the need among other things
that chords have clean starts, works have clean ends, unisons and octaves
are true and movement mirrored in different parts move 'as one'.
To imply that by discarding these essential features one might be able to
demonstrate more expressive possibilities is to turn one's back on
centuries of expectation.
As I have pointed out elsewhere Bruggen seems to have confused his need as
a proponent of 'avant garde' music to break with the past and to redefine
these kind of relationships with the requirements and restrictions that the
performance of earlier repertoire demands. Afterall if the freedom you
suggest were to be carried to it's logical conclusion why even play the
notes the composer wrote down - maybe a different harmony, or a changed
rhythm here or there might be nice!!