Rafe or Ralph?? (Vaughn Williams
bulrich
pronounced this way (Rafe..long A) and I'm beginning to wonder where
the hell all of this comes from. I've heard Ralph (regular
pronunciation) all of my life (I'm 55 years) and now all of a sudden
(last couple of years), Rafe. Is this something that is "politically
correct" or what?? Pardon my stupidity.
R. Barry Ulrich |General Class Ham Radio Operator,
KB6RAA
Teacher, Explorations in Technology |Packet:
KB6...@K6VE.SOCA.CA.USA.NA
Montebello Intermediate School |bar...@aol.com
1600 Whittier Boulevard |7226...@CompuServe.com
Montebello, CA 90640 |bul...@eworld.com
bul...@cello.gina.calstate.edu |sws...@prodigy.com
David M. Cook
Williams own wife called him "ralf". I use "ralf" myself.
Dave Cook
August Nelson
>
>I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
>pronounced this way (Rafe..long A) and I'm beginning to wonder where
>the hell all of this comes from. I've heard Ralph (regular
>pronunciation) all of my life (I'm 55 years) and now all of a sudden
>(last couple of years), Rafe. Is this something that is "politically
>correct" or what?? Pardon my stupidity.
>
Williams wanted it pronounced. Whether it's a family idiosyncracy or a
British or English peculiarity I don't know. But with proper names
anywhere all rules are off.
I do know that quite a few British (English?) proper names are
pronounced in ways you'd never conceive. My favorite is Cholmondeley,
which as any fool must know, demmit all, one pronounces CHUMLEY.
If you think I'm kidding, I once had a fine young man working for me
named Gerald Cholmondeley Jones -- Gerry CHUMLEY Jones to his friends
and all good Brits. And that was right here in the U.S., in New York
City.
The inimitable Wodehouse, if I recall correctly, makes elegant use of
such names in several of his characters. Wasn't he responsible for
"Leave It To Psmith"? As in, "The F is silent, as the P in Psmith."
Another example, "Worcestershire." Not, of course, War-sester-sheer
Sauce, as that pretentious idiotic fraud the Frugal Gourmet pronounced
it, but WOOS-ter-sheer. From the name of the English shire, natch
(county, to us colonials). Not far from where I now live in Pennsylvania
is the village, I guess it is, of Worcester. When I first pronounced it
Wooster I was taken sternly to task for not saying War-sester. What can
I tell you?
Robert S. Coren
August Nelson <Gus...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>It's pronounced Rafe for the simple reason that that's how Vaughan
>Williams wanted it pronounced. Whether it's a family idiosyncracy or a
>British or English peculiarity I don't know. But with proper names
>anywhere all rules are off.
The "rafe" pronunciation for the name "Ralph" is or was at the very
least a common alternative in Great Britain. I've heard
"authoritative" claims for both pronunciations of Vaughan Williams's
name. But there's no question how W. S. Gilbert intended the first
name of the tenor lead in _H.M.S. Pinafore_ to be pronounced: he
rhymed it with "waif".
--
-------Robert Coren (co...@spdcc.com)-------------------------
"Never try to outstubborn a cat." -- R. A. Heinlein
Aaron Z Snyder
: In article <3k3jd3$f...@ixnews1.ix.netcom.com>,
I first became aware of the "Rafe" pronunciation when RVW's Symphony #9
was first issued in 1959 on Everest. Sir Adrian Boult's brief spoken
introduction (also included on the recently-released CD of this
recording) begins,"We had hoped that our beloved friend "Rafe" Vaughan
Williams could have been in the studio while we were making this
recording..." Boult's long-term association with RVW would imply a
knowledge of the pronunciation of his name. Also look at the actor Ralph
Fiennes, pronounced "Rafe Fines."
My understanding is that "Rafe" is a Welsh pronunciation. Whatever the
case may be, it is a common pronunciation.
Aaron Z. Snyder
John-Michael Albert
The announcer had the presence of mind to ask, and she said that he
was "Rafe." Period. No question.
Bottom line: say it the way the want it said. No rules abide when it
comes to names.
Mike
Bradford Kellogg
Rafe has some historical basis, as I recall. I think it has to do
with the traditional pronunciation of that name from a certain region
of England, the region where Vaughn Williams either was from or has
some ancestry. That's all I remember.
--
Bradford Kellogg __ _ "There is nothing,
br...@viewlogic.com \_) ( ) absolutely nothing,
_________ \ / \ ________ quite so worth doing
\ \_____\__/___)/ / as simply messing
\ \_ / about in boats."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~(_\~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John W Kennedy
>I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
>pronounced this way (Rafe..long A) and I'm beginning to wonder where
>the hell all of this comes from. I've heard Ralph (regular
>pronunciation) all of my life (I'm 55 years) and now all of a sudden
>(last couple of years), Rafe. Is this something that is "politically
>correct" or what?? Pardon my stupidity.
<Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England. However, it
appears that the composer pronounced it <Ralf> in his own particular
case.
John W. Kennedy - Hoechst Celanese - Team OS/2 - (The OS/2 Hobbit) - TIPA
IBMMAIL: USAHC29S IBMLink: NAAO3IY "Compact is becoming contract;
CompuServe: 75136,1413 Prodigy: MTMV04A Man only earns and pays."
Internet: kenn...@bwmail1.hcc.com -- Charles Williams
X.400: US Telemail Hoechst
Ernest T Rees
: In <3k3398$s...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, cello.gina.calstate.edu (bulrich) writes:
: >I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
: >pronounced this way (Rafe..long A) and I'm beginning to wonder where
: >the hell all of this comes from. I've heard Ralph (regular
: >pronunciation) all of my life (I'm 55 years) and now all of a sudden
: >(last couple of years), Rafe. Is this something that is "politically
: >correct" or what?? Pardon my stupidity.
: <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England. However, it
: appears that the composer pronounced it <Ralf> in his own particular
: case.
No he didn't. According to the BBC pronunciation guide he prononunced it
Rafe. The source is given as a telephone call with the man himself.
John W Kennedy
Fascinating! I have heard both claims made, and thought that <ralf>
was finally settled on, last time.
Or is it that _he_ said <rafe> and his wife said <ralf>? Sounds like
an interesting marriage, if that be so....
John Montanari
> : In <3k3398$s...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, cello.gina.calstate.edu
(bulrich) writes:
> : >I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
> : >pronounced this way (Rafe..long A) and I'm beginning to wonder where
> : >the hell all of this comes from. I've heard Ralph (regular
> : >pronunciation) all of my life (I'm 55 years) and now all of a sudden
> : >(last couple of years), Rafe. Is this something that is "politically
> : >correct" or what?? Pardon my stupidity.
>
> : <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England. However, it
> : appears that the composer pronounced it <Ralf> in his own particular
> : case.
I attended a radio conference several years ago that was also attended by
some music staff from the BBC (which has its own pronunciation division).
They insisted it was "Rafe," and told us that if anyone mistakenly said
"Ralph" on the air, they would receive a phone call of correction from
RVW's widow.
John Montanari
mont...@admin.umass.edu
Robert M Franklin
>August Nelson <Gus...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>It's pronounced Rafe for the simple reason that that's how Vaughan
>>Williams wanted it pronounced. Whether it's a family idiosyncracy or a
>>British or English peculiarity I don't know. But with proper names
>>anywhere all rules are off.
>
Ursula Vaughan Williams, makes it clear that RVW wanted it pronounced
"Rafe" and most emphatically not "Ralf". this is a peculiarity of the
class from which he came - aristocrats are a law unto themselves...
It is not necessarily an "English" peculiarity, as the English use
both pronunciations.
So there you go...
regards
Rob
--
************************gt9...@brunel.ac.uk************************************
"I don't know whether I like it, but it's what I meant."
_ Ralph Vaughan Williams on his 4th symphony (attributed)
********************************************************************************
August Nelson
writes:
>Gus...@ix.netcom.com (August Nelson) wrote:
>> I do know that quite a few British (English?) proper names are
>> pronounced in ways you'd never conceive. My favorite is Cholmondeley,
>> which as any fool must know, demmit all, one pronounces CHUMLEY.
>
>Milngavie or Menzies (Kur-KOObry, Mill-GUY, MING-ez) ...
>
>But what of Arkansas and (as recent personalities) Colin (KOH-lin)
>and Crowe (to rhyme with now)? Idiosyncratic -- and American.
>
>Ralph as "rafe" seems reasonable, when set beside "half" and "wolf".
>I've actually met someone whose name was indeed Rafe, which solved
>that particular problem.
>
>Peter Adamson
>
Your Scottish examples, new to me, are delightful, to say nothing of
impenetrable. Compared to them and the English examples, ours are
simple-minded and pedestrian, more like the idiosyncrasies of the language
itself. You recall, of course, Shaw's suggested spelling of FISH:
GHOTI
Thanks.
Gus Nelson
P.S. And speaking of Scots, when I was growing up we had two Scottish
additions to our little hillbilly community.
One was a golf pro named Ian Robertson who was imported by the posh country
club a few miles away. Scotty, from Inverness, spoke the purest English
I've ever heard.
The other was a family named Cluny, from the Scottish Highlands. When they
arrived their burr delighted one and all. And as time passed, year by year,
instead of fading away it got inexorably thicker and thicker and thicker,
to the point where finally it was almost impossible to understand a word
they said.
==========================================================================
Will Rogers: It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble,
it's what we know that ain't so.
Will Rogers: When the Okies migrated from Oklahoma to California,
they raised the average IQ's of both states.
Peter Adamson
> I do know that quite a few British (English?) proper names are
> pronounced in ways you'd never conceive. My favorite is Cholmondeley,
> which as any fool must know, demmit all, one pronounces CHUMLEY.
Hmm. Scottish names can be a problem, too. Try Kirkcudbright,
August Nelson
writes:
> At the beginning of her biography of the great man,s second wife,
> Ursula Vaughan Williams, makes it clear that RVW wanted it pronounced
> "Rafe" and most emphatically not "Ralf". this is a peculiarity of the
> class from which he came - aristocrats are a law unto themselves...
> It is not necessarily an "English" peculiarity, as the English use
> both pronunciations.
Same thing applies here, and I suppose almost everywhere, with proper nouns.
I've come across three or four people named Levin. Some pronounce it le-VIN,
others LEV-in. So again, there you are. Many others I can't dredge up just
now.
Didn't realize he was of the aristocracy. Seems he atoned a bit for that
with his music.
I've always enjoyed Shaw's take on the vagaries of English pronunciation,
as with his spelling of ghoti for fish.
Regards
Gus
I. Neill Reid
> At the beginning of her biography of the great man,s second wife,
> Ursula Vaughan Williams, makes it clear that RVW wanted it pronounced
> "Rafe" and most emphatically not "Ralf". this is a peculiarity of the
> class from which he came - aristocrats are a law unto themselves...
^^^^^^^^^^^
Except he wasn't - his father was Arthur Charles Vaughan Williams, vicar
of the Christ Church living of Down Ampney, Gloucestershire at the time
of RVW's birth in 1872. RVW's grandfather (Sir Edward Vaughan Williams)
was knighted in 1847, but that was (presumably) through his performance
in the legal profession. ACVW married the second daughter of Josiah
Wedgwood III - emphatically `new' industry money, not even landed gentry.
No dukes, counts, earls or even baronets in the background there.
(see James Day's biography - Master Musicians series)
Neill Reid - i...@dowland.caltech.edu
Brian D. Baker
first name pronounced "Rafe". I used to program classical music on a pub-
lic radio station, and once enraged a couple of listeners because they
could _not_ figure out how anybody could say "rafe" when it's spelled
"Ralph". Our pronunciation came from a desire to be accurate, but many
interpreted it as superiority. To further confuse the issue, at a public
radio conference in Ann Arbor, MI, it was revealed that when Vaughan Wil-
liams visited America, he pronounced it "RALPH"! I now feel one should show
sufficient respect for one's listeners to pronounce obscure names in an
idiomatic way (by which I mean in plain English, assuming we Americans
actually speak a form of it.) Were I still in radio, I would probably say
"Ralph" (or say it "Rolph" and confuse everyone further!)
Regards,
Brian D Baker
Neil Tingley
"Rafe" is the accepted pronunciation here. I suspect it has something to do
with which part of England one comes from and even which social class !
These matters are always so damn complicated in England.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neil Tingley http://music.demon.co.uk (occasionally)
ne...@music.demon.co.uk Compuserve 100577,504
Edinburgh *Mail quicker to 10057...@compuserve.com*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Adamson
> John W Kennedy (KENNEDY@KENNEDY@) wrote:
> : In <3k3398$s...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, cello.gina.calstate.edu (bulrich) writes:
> : >I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
..
>
> : <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England.
No it isn't.
Peter Adamson
Peter Adamson
> John W Kennedy (KENNEDY@KENNEDY@) wrote:
> : In <3k3398$s...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, cello.gina.calstate.edu (bulrich) writes:
> : >I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
..
>
> : <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England.
No it isn't.
Peter Adamson
Neil Tingley
p...@st-and.ac.uk "Peter Adamson" writes:
>
>
> > John W Kennedy (KENNEDY@KENNEDY@) wrote:
> > : In <3k3398$s...@cello.gina.calstate.edu>, cello.gina.calstate.edu (bulrich)
> writes:
> > : >I've heard (here in Los Angeles) the name of Ralph Vaughn Williams
>
> ..
>
> >
> > : <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England.
>
> No it isn't.
Oh yes it is :-)
ken...@kennedy.bridgewater.ne.hcc.com
>> John W Kennedy (KENNEDY@KENNEDY@) wrote:
>> : <Rafe> is the normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in England.
>
The matter appears to be infinitely complex.
Let us say, then, that <Rafe> is _a_ normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in
England. That much I _know_ to be a fact. It may be regional, or may
be a peculiarity in certain families, but it certainly occurs.
Alan Portigal
> Previously, cello.gina.calstate.edu commented on hearing Vaughan Williams'
> first name pronounced "Rafe". I used to program classical music on a pub-
> lic radio station, and once enraged a couple of listeners because they
> could _not_ figure out how anybody could say "rafe" when it's spelled
> "Ralph". Our pronunciation came from a desire to be accurate, but many
> interpreted it as superiority. To further confuse the issue, at a public
> radio conference in Ann Arbor, MI, it was revealed that when Vaughan Wil-
> liams visited America, he pronounced it "RALPH"! I now feel one should show
> sufficient respect for one's listeners to pronounce obscure names in an
> idiomatic way (by which I mean in plain English, assuming we Americans
> actually speak a form of it.) Were I still in radio, I would probably say
> "Ralph" (or say it "Rolph" and confuse everyone further!)
N> "Rafe" is the accepted pronunciation here. I suspect it has something to do
N> with which part of England one comes from and even which social class !
N> These matters are always so damn complicated in England.
Can we put a lid on this by recalling the verse from Pinafore:
At length each little waif
Forsook its foster mother,
The well-born babe was Ralph,
Your captain was the other.
Alan
---
ş SPEED 1.40 #1632 ş
Chia Han-Leon
[chomp]
: The matter appears to be infinitely complex.
: Let us say, then, that <Rafe> is _a_ normal pronunciation of "Ralph" in
: England. That much I _know_ to be a fact. It may be regional, or may
: be a peculiarity in certain families, but it certainly occurs.
This pronunciation is due to the Great Vowel Shift of the
15th/16th centuries, when vowel sounds in English 'shifted' places,
relative to each other.
<Ralph> is pronounced /reif/ for about the same reason we
pronounce <safe> as /seif/ , rather than the 'original' /sar-fay/
(please forgive very inacurrate phoenetic translations). The <a> was
generally pronounced /ah/ in the old old days, but during the Shift, many
words had their vowel sounds changed, which accounts for the great many
different ways of pronouncing the various vowel sounds in the English
language.
Consider these other words with the <a> :
day, say, patent, bat, part,
made, late, etc. vs pat, bark, etc.
/ei/ sound /a/ and "air" sounds
So presumably, the <a> in <Ralph> got affected likewise.
L e o n
du...@pavilion.co.uk
It would appear that as with so much in England, then (and now?) this is very
much a matter of 'class'.
'Ralph' for the middle classes and 'Rafe' for the middle/upper and upper
classes. I know this is not very PC in these present times but VW (and his
parents) had no conception of PC.
David Martland
: Previously, cello.gina.calstate.edu commented on hearing Vaughan Williams'
: first name pronounced "Rafe". I used to program classical music on a pub-
: lic radio station, and once enraged a couple of listeners because they
: could _not_ figure out how anybody could say "rafe" when it's spelled
: "Ralph". Our pronunciation came from a desire to be accurate, but many
: interpreted it as superiority. To further confuse the issue, at a public
: radio conference in Ann Arbor, MI, it was revealed that when Vaughan Wil-
: liams visited America, he pronounced it "RALPH"! I now feel one should show
Is this documented, or does a recording of his conference exist?
: sufficient respect for one's listeners to pronounce obscure names in an
: idiomatic way (by which I mean in plain English, assuming we Americans
: actually speak a form of it.) Were I still in radio, I would probably say
: "Ralph" (or say it "Rolph" and confuse everyone further!)
The BBC announcers over here still insist on calling him Rafe - I assumed
that was how he wanted it, because otherwise that's NOT how Brits would
pronounce it! If it now turns out that he didn't even use that form himself...
Another composer with an awkard name is Poulenc, which I always thought
should be pronounced Pool-onk (roughly), but most announcers call
him Pool-ank (again roughly) - any comments from French speakers?
Dave
Michael D. Rohdin
means book:
leabhar
pronounced YOW-er.
I'm also fond of the phrase for open the window:
Oscaill an fhuinneog
pronounced US-kul un in-OHG.
Cassandra Kenfield
why...it's a little like the Saint John = "Synjen" thing. A tickle for the UK
folks by the way on how far this can go....a reader on our blind station ( who
is greatly to be commended, by the way for BEING there and taking the time to
read)..persistantly uses the "Synjen" pronunciation every time she sees a
reference to "St. John's Wood". Also "row" ( as in what we'd call a "fight")
always comes out "roe".
Then again, some of the garbling I hear on the BBC of foreign terms leaves me
feeling not quite so inferior!
Cheers
FredW27
Philadelphia Orchestra in the early '70's we were taught by the diction
coach, who was Italian, not French, to pronounce it Poo-link (as opposed
to "onk" or "ank".) I still use it, but I get looked at funny a lot.
Peter Adamson
> The BBC announcers over here still insist on calling him Rafe - I assumed
> that was how he wanted it, because otherwise that's NOT how Brits would
> pronounce it!
I was contradicted when I suggested that...
> Another composer with an awkard name is Poulenc, which I always thought
> should be pronounced Pool-onk (roughly), but most announcers call
> him Pool-ank (again roughly) - any comments from French speakers?
My brother once rented a flat in Paris, and his landlord was MEYNENC.
When I tackled him on the pronunciation ("may-nank" roughly), he
said it was Breton, as with -- Poulenc!
Peter Adamson
[my surname, correctly pronounced, is unintelligible in Paris!
I have to say, in effect, the French equivalent "a dansant"... Hmm.]
Alan D. Hull
question came up, and she said that he preferred that it be pronounced 'Rafe'.
Regards,
Al
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Al Hull | hu...@a1.eld.ford.com | Cross a crooked lawyer and a crooked
Motown | hu...@ohf.mts.dec.com | politician and you get ----> Chelsea!
area | |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive."
Tauser
Steinberg in the San Francisco Symphony program): "Ralph's name was
pronounced Rafe, any other pronounciation used to infuriate him."
Steve Luyben
DM>The BBC announcers over here still insist on calling him Rafe - I
DM>assumed that was how he wanted it, because otherwise that's NOT how
DM>Brits would pronounce it! If it now turns out that he didn't even use
DM>that form himself...
It seems even our contributors from the U.K are mixed in their feelings
about how "Ralph" is pronounced there. One suggested pronunciation
might be determined by class.
By now I thought someone would have mentioned Gilbert & Sullivan. The
performances I have heard use "Rafe" - I believe D'Oyly Carte for one.
____________________________________________________________
*-=Steve=-* steve....@channel1.com
Boston
* CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #1762
This is a good day to let down old friends who need help.
Steve Luyben
IN> well, Poul-ank is how I'd pronounce it based on my knowledge of
IN>French, and I seem to remember Francois Velde posting a detailed
IN>explanation of the whys and wherefores thereof some time ago.
Ahem. While most Americans say "Poulank," the French pronunciation of
the second syllable in Poulenc would have the nasal "en" sound as in "la
vie en rose."
____________________________________________________________
*-=Steve=-* steve....@channel1.com
Boston
* CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #1762
Straight trees have crooked roots.
Michael Kilpatrick
>On 04-07-95 David Martland writes:
>DM>The BBC announcers over here still insist on calling him Rafe - I
>DM>assumed that was how he wanted it, because otherwise that's NOT how
>DM>Brits would pronounce it! If it now turns out that he didn't even use
>DM>that form himself...
I've never heard that myself, but I've not listened to R3 for a while.
Saying "Rafe" is as pretentious as pronouncing "Smythe" differently
from "Smith".
>It seems even our contributors from the U.K are mixed in their feelings
>about how "Ralph" is pronounced there. One suggested pronunciation
>might be determined by class.
And to confuse you all even more, I'd just like to point out that the
word "half", (which in the US and small parts of the South West of
England is more like "haff"), is, in Sheffield (Yorkshire), often
pronounced "aif", and most definitely _not_ by the same class of people
who would pronounce "Ralph" as "Rafe".
Are your heads all spinning yet?
Michael
Fred Goldrich
Steve Luyben <steve....@channel1.com> wrote:
>
>It seems even our contributors from the U.K are mixed in their feelings
>about how "Ralph" is pronounced there. One suggested pronunciation
>might be determined by class.
>
>performances I have heard use "Rafe" - I believe D'Oyly Carte for one.
This subject has been discussed extensively on SavoyNet,
the G&S mailing list. The upshot seems to be -- correct me if
someone has a better recollection than I -- that the name of
Ralph Rackstraw in _Pinafore_ must of course be pronounced 'Rafe'
to fit the rhyme scheme; but that this is not universally the
case in Britain, and that the upper-class pronunciation might
well be one of the various class-distinction jokes that underly
the plot of the operetta.
-- Fred Goldrich
--
Fred Goldrich
gold...@panix.com
JNeale1403
controversy (that's con-TRO-versey to you Brits): in HMS Pinafore, the
tenor lead's name is spelled Ralph Rackstraw and pronounced, at least in
Savoy tradition, Rafe...
Richard L Kaye
Williams, but I have yet to see anyone here quote Ursula Vaughan
Williams, the composer's widow. She said, "Ralph's name was pronounced
Rafe, any other pronunciation used to infuriate him."
Richard L. Kaye (rk...@world.std.com)
Neil Tingley
Cassandra_Kenfield@maccomw "Cassandra Kenfield" writes:
You should hear Classic FM's announcers attempting to pronouce artist's or
composer's names. The results are often hilarious. Does no-one on Radio study
languages ?
James P. H. Fuller
>The BBC announcers over here still insist on calling him Rafe - I assumed
>that was how he wanted it, because otherwise that's NOT how Brits would
>pronounce it! If it now turns out that he didn't even use that form himself...
>
BBC announcers' accent and diction comes from announcer school, not
Oxbridge, and doesn't imply (or preclude, of course) any particular level
of musical or educational background. A howler I have heard several times
is pronouncing the name of a certain well-known New York conductor/composer
"LAY-oh-naird BAIRN-schtein." Sounds oh-so-cultured--but exposes a lack of
familiarity with the music world that must be pretty total.
- JF
I. Neill Reid
A word for the defence - it's now 10 years since I was able to
listen to the BBC regularly, but at that time the radio 3 announcers
were certainly musically-literate and, as far as I could tell, on target
with their pronounciation. And I haven't noticed too much attrition
when I've been back. (Haven't heard the world service enough to comment).
I have certainly never heard `Leonard' pronounced as 3 syllables on that
side of the Atlantic (although Classic FM might find a way of doing so).
[It might also be simply a difference in the accent - and need not
imply lack of knowledge.]
The BBC, by the way, used to have a department which specialised in
pronounciation - you wanted to know how to pronounce a word in swahili,
you gave them a call (or sent them a note), they told you. Maybe that's
gone by the wayside in recent years.
Neill Reid - i...@dowland.caltech.edu
>
Hilary Bates
Reply-To: jneal...@aol.com (JNeale1403)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical
Subject: Re: Rafe or Ralph?? (Vaughn Williams
Date: 12 Apr 1995 21:09:05 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
Message-ID: <3mhtjh$p...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
References: <3mblsn$980...@ped.pto.ford.com>
Graham Dragon
However, the matter of pronouncing "Ralph" as "Rafe" is not simply personal preference nor a peculiarity of a particular region of the UK. It goes back to the Viking origin of the name.
Originally, "Ralph" was Old Norse "Raðulfr", which in the absence of that rather peculiar middle letter in the modern English alphabet would be written "Radulf" - although few would now choose to spell it in Old Norse. In Middle English the "d" was dropped anyway, and the "l" became a silent "l". Hence the pronunciation "Rafe" for those who want the association of their name with its Norse origin, and "Ralf" for those who prefer a more modern association.