DeBeers Commercial Music
Shane Kiser
I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and the
piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
television commercial. Do you know what it is?
Thanks!
Shane Kiser
Ouroboros
Doctor Gonzo
Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and the
>piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>television commercial. Do you know what it is?
Wrong newsgroup... have you tried alt.tv.commercials?
That aside, the actual original title of this pseudo-music has been
long debated... in a previous post, John Grabowski asserted:
>It's called "Chippin' Away in South Africa," performed by Merrill
>Haggard and the 24K Band.
Amanda Stockton posted the following bit of historical information to
CompuServe:
>It's the "Vivace mediocris" from the "Concerto Molto
>Grosso No. 86" by neo-Baroque hack composer Karl Jenkins,
>from the 1994 folio "Musicus Exploitationis Commerciales."
Even The Doc chimed in with an answer, based on information provided
by a friend in the advertising industry regarding the planning and
implementation of this music, when he replied in an earlier post that
the music was titled
>"Music for the Subliminal Programming of the Weak-Minded" by Karl
>Jenkins (in cooperation with at least one psychoacoustic consultant),
>issued under the far more palatable title "Palladio" on a recent Sony
>CD >;-)
Sadly, many misinformed individuals ask incorrectly ask this newsgroup
what the diamond commercial "song" is; Sabin...@aol.com makes
herself clear:
>There is no "song" on the commercial and it is a splotch of the most
>mediocre crap ever produced (next to any film score by
>John Williams or ANYTHING at all by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
The fact that she compares this pseudo-Baroque mediocrity to Lloyd
Webber should give you a hint (though by comparing it to those two she
gives the music too much credibility).
This question is so frequently - and incorrectly - asked of this group
that Alan Swindells asked the $64,000 question:
>How much does de Beers pay for continually posting these inane
>questions about their blasted commercials?
>And can I have some?
In summary: the so-called "diamond music" has been released on CD by
Sony, and is most likely found in either the classical or easy
listening section of your local Wal-Mart. You'd be better off buying
_real_ Baroque music which has more staying power...heck, they're
still playing the stuff 300 years after it was written! Try "The Four
Seasons" by Antonio Vivaldi, "Concerto Grossi Opus 3" by Handel,
anything by Zavateri or Zelenka, or Bach's "Orchestral Suites" and
"Brandenburg Concertos."
'Nuff said,
The Doc
The Doc
Visit The Doc's mind-bending web site at
http://www.pipeline.com/~drgonzo
John Grabowski
In <32CF05...@scs.oda.edu> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> writes:
>
>I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and the
>piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>television commercial. Do you know what it is?
>
>
>
>
>Shane Kiser
>
>sh...@scs.oda.edu
TWO YEARS??? *Phew!* In your long and undoubtedly thorough search,
have you tried any CD stores?
...Just a thought.
John
John Grabowski
In <5aqsgn$a...@camel2.mindspring.com> drg...@pipeline.com (Doctor
Gonzo) writes:
>Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>
>>I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and the
>>piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>>television commercial. Do you know what it is?
>
>
>That aside, the actual original title of this pseudo-music has been
>long debated... in a previous post, John Grabowski asserted:
>
>>It's called "Chippin' Away in South Africa," performed by Merrill
>>Haggard and the 24K Band.
Witty answer, but once again I'm quoted having said something I did
not.
John
dh...@lehigh.edu
In article <5asek6$p...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, joh...@ix.netcom.com(John Gr
>>piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>>television commercial. Do you know what it is?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Shane Kiser
>>
>>sh...@scs.oda.edu
>
>TWO YEARS??? *Phew!* In your long and undoubtedly thorough search,
>have you tried any CD stores?
>
>...Just a thought.
>
>
>John
>
>
I have it on CD, but its only about 50 some seconds long. Pretty much what
you heard on TV is all of it.
Not worth buying. Stop your search.
dan
Robert John Kerr
Doctor Gonzo wrote:
>
> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>
>
> >There is no "song" on the commercial and it is a splotch of the most
> >mediocre crap ever produced (next to any film score by
> >John Williams or ANYTHING at all by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
>
> The fact that she compares this pseudo-Baroque mediocrity to Lloyd
> Webber should give you a hint (though by comparing it to those two she
> gives the music too much credibility).
Why does none of this group seem to like anything from Palladio? Is it
so much worse than Songs of Sanctuary? I just recently acquired
Adiemus, and I must say it is my most played CD - I love the rhythms and
orchestral effects, and the interplay between the voices is wonderfully
melodious.
--
Robert Kerr - r...@cs.nott.ac.uk
"It's got three keyboards and a hundred extra knobs, including twelve
with '?' on them."
-- The Unseen University Organ, as designed by B. S. Johnson
(Terry Pratchett, Men At Arms)
John Grabowski
In <5b73g7$j...@mtinsc01-mgt.ops.worldnet.att.net>
mi...@worldnet.att.net (John M. Miano) writes:
>
>In article <32D56E...@cs.nott.ac.uk>, Robert John Kerr
<r...@cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Why does none of this group seem to like anything from Palladio? Is
it
>>so much worse than Songs of Sanctuary? I just recently acquired
>>Adiemus, and I must say it is my most played CD - I love the rhythms
and
>>orchestral effects, and the interplay between the voices is
wonderfully
>>melodious.
>
Vivaldi and Glass. Now there's one I'd never dreamed of before.
...Shudder!
John
John M. Miano
In article <32D56E...@cs.nott.ac.uk>, Robert John Kerr <r...@cs.nott.ac.uk> wrote:
>Why does none of this group seem to like anything from Palladio? Is it
>so much worse than Songs of Sanctuary? I just recently acquired
>Adiemus, and I must say it is my most played CD - I love the rhythms and
>orchestral effects, and the interplay between the voices is wonderfully
>melodious.
It sounds like bad mixture of Vivaldi and Glass.
IMHO, of course.
John
------------------------------------------------
Save money...make Newt and Hillary share a cell!
mazurka
> >piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
> >television commercial. Do you know what it is?
>
>
> That aside, the actual original title of this pseudo-music has been
> long debated... in a previous post, John Grabowski asserted:
>
> >It's called "Chippin' Away in South Africa," performed by Merrill
> >Haggard and the 24K Band.
>
> CompuServe:
>
> >It's the "Vivace mediocris" from the "Concerto Molto
> >Grosso No. 86" by neo-Baroque hack composer Karl Jenkins,
> >from the 1994 folio "Musicus Exploitationis Commerciales."
>
> Even The Doc chimed in with an answer, based on information provided
> by a friend in the advertising industry regarding the planning and
> implementation of this music, when he replied in an earlier post that
> the music was titled
>
> >"Music for the Subliminal Programming of the Weak-Minded" by Karl
> >Jenkins (in cooperation with at least one psychoacoustic consultant),
> >issued under the far more palatable title "Palladio" on a recent Sony
> >CD >;-)
>
> Sadly, many misinformed individuals ask incorrectly ask this newsgroup
> what the diamond commercial "song" is; Sabin...@aol.com makes
> herself clear:
>
> >mediocre crap ever produced (next to any film score by
> >John Williams or ANYTHING at all by Andrew Lloyd Webber.
>
> The fact that she compares this pseudo-Baroque mediocrity to Lloyd
> Webber should give you a hint (though by comparing it to those two she
> gives the music too much credibility).
>
> that Alan Swindells asked the $64,000 question:
>
> >How much does de Beers pay for continually posting these inane
> >questions about their blasted commercials?
>
> >And can I have some?
>
> In summary: the so-called "diamond music" has been released on CD by
> Sony, and is most likely found in either the classical or easy
> listening section of your local Wal-Mart. You'd be better off buying
> _real_ Baroque music which has more staying power...heck, they're
> still playing the stuff 300 years after it was written! Try "The Four
> Seasons" by Antonio Vivaldi, "Concerto Grossi Opus 3" by Handel,
> anything by Zavateri or Zelenka, or Bach's "Orchestral Suites" and
> "Brandenburg Concertos."
>
> 'Nuff said,
>
> The Doc
>
> The Doc
>
> Visit The Doc's mind-bending web site at
> http://www.pipeline.com/~drgonzo
mean people suck!
Jeremy Berman
In <32E073...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> mazurka
<maz...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> writes:
>
>Doctor Gonzo wrote:
>>
>> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and
the
>> >piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>> >television commercial.
Jeremy writes: Can you imagine anyone searching two years for any
commercial's background music? It's both sad and scary.
Jeremy Berman
In <32E073...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> mazurka
<maz...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> writes:
>
>Doctor Gonzo wrote:
>>
>> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and
the
>> >piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>>
It's the Allegro ma non Adagio from the Concerto Grossisimo by
Vincenzo Malaproponzo. It's available on a Sony CD entitled,
"Semi-Classical Music for People Who's Attention Spans Are 60 seconds
and only Listen to Background Music Played During Ads Made to Glorify
Greed and Status Symbols."
Doctor Gonzo
mazurka <maz...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>mean people suck!
There's a difference between vociferous criticism (or satire) and
meanness --- a pity some people can't tell the difference!
Jeffrey Chesky
Seriously, work is by Jenkins. I think the first name is Carl, I could
be wrong on that.
> >> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and
> the
> >> >piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
> >> >television commercial. Do you know what it is?
> >>
> >> Jeremy writes:
> It's the Allegro ma non Adagio from the Concerto Grossisimo by
> Vincenzo Malaproponzo. It's available on a Sony CD entitled,
> "Semi-Classical Music for People Who's Attention Spans Are 60 seconds
> and only Listen to Background Music Played During Ads Made to Glorify
> Greed and Status Symbols."
--
**************************************************************************
* *
* Dr. Jeffrey A. Chesky *
* Professor of Gerontology *
* University of Illinois - Springfield *
* Springfield, Illinois 62794-9243 *
* *
* Tel: (217) 786-7335 email: che...@uis.edu *
* Fax: (217) 786-7188 *
* *
**************************************************************************
dbroo...@aol.com
In article <5buf5h$2...@eagle.uis.edu>, che...@eagle.uis.edu (Jeffrey
Chesky) writes:
>Seriously, work is by Jenkins. I think the first name is Carl, I could
>be wrong on that.
Actually, it's Karl :-)
My advice: get some real Vivaldi, not the fake. More data on:
http://www.opengroup.org/~dbrooks/diamonds/
-- David Brooks
D.G. Porter
dbroo...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <5buf5h$2...@eagle.uis.edu>, che...@eagle.uis.edu (Jeffrey
> Chesky) writes:
>
> >Seriously, work is by Jenkins. I think the first name is Carl, I could
> >be wrong on that.
>
> Actually, it's Karl :-)
>
>
No one else seems to pick up on this point, so I'll add it:
In the first vesion, the piece is in a minor key. This iomplies that
the "relationship" ain't goin' all to well. It gets rockier & rockier
until Man springs for some big-ass diamond ring (cost him the "usual"
3-months' salary I'll wager, "mandatory" in case he walks out...), then
when he slips it on her finger (and "she" is just a shadow of a human
being) it only then changes to Major (she p'o'bly slipped a ring thro'
his nose too...).
Is this implying that marriage is simply ritualised, legalised, accepted
prostitution? "You get 'some' if you pay a big load for it..." The
muzak sure reinforces that notion!
DGP
Harry Brown
mazurka <maz...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> wrote:
>Doctor Gonzo wrote:
>>
>> Shane Kiser <sh...@scs.oda.edu> wrote:
>>
>> >I have been searching for over two years for the composer of and the
>> >piece for the background of the DeBeers "Diamonds Are Forever"
>> >television commercial. Do you know what it is?
>Actually, it's the theme from "Father Dowling," which most musicologists recognise as being based on still-undiscovered works attributed to Giuseppi Souffler (b. Aix-en-Boulanger, 1682), just as John Williams themes are based on old Kent cigarette commercials. And lay off Andrew Lloyd Webber; he wrote a poignant tune once and has only reincarnated it 54 times or so.
Darren
The music for the "Diamonds Are Forever" commercials is now on a disc
called "Diamond Music" (just released). As I started writing this reply,
I knew the composer's name, but it just slipped away. It's Karl something
beginning with J. Anyway, look in the new releases section and there it
is. It is part of a multi-part work and the rest of his music is great!
Minimalism meets Celtic Baroque!
David Brooks,139,7233
Sigh.
Many people write:
> What is the classical piece used in the DeBeers diamond commercial?
The music, which is called "Shadows", was composed specifically for this
commercial by Karl Jenkins (b.1944; formerly of The Soft Machine), and was
first aired in early 1994. Originally, three minutes and 45 seconds of
music were written.
Karl Jenkins has since written a three-movement suite of music based on
Shadows. It is called Palladio (Concerto Grosso), after the Italian
architect, Andrea Palladio (1508-1580), and is available on a CD along with
some other works: Sony Classical SK 62276. The CD is available in stores
and through the Wireless gift catalog -- call 1-800-336-8452.
Most musicians will observe that Shadows is not very good music, containing
a number of fundamental mistakes in construction that really grate on the
ear. One correspondent called it "a miserable little piece of crap". It
is clearly derived from of parts of "The Four Seasons", a work for violin
and orchestra written by Antonio Vivaldi and published in 1725. People are
often thinking of this piece when they ask about the diamond commercial.
There are many, many recordings of "The Four Seasons", and you will find
that listening to just about any one will be more rewarding than the
commercial's music.
Furthermore, part of a Vivaldi mandolin concerto (presumably RV 425) is
very like the second part of the commercial music. A record of the
concerto is played in Truffaut's 1967 movie "La Mariée Etait en Noir" ("The
Bride Wore Black"). A similarity to Stravinsky's "Danses Concertantes" has
also been suggested.
Just to confuse everybody, the Weather Channel (in the U.S.) has used both
"The Four Seasons" and "Shadows" during the local forecast segment.
Essentiaily the same information is now on (new address!)
http://www.opengroup.org/~dbrooks/diamonds/
--
David Brooks, QA Manager, Desktop Engineering dbr...@opengroup.org
The Open Group <URL:http://www.opengroup.org/~dbrooks/>
Commit planned giving and daily acts of compassion.
scigu...@aol.com
In article <5ctcv9$8u2$1...@towncrier.osf.org>, dbr...@x.org (David
Brooks,139,7233) writes:
>Most musicians will observe that Shadows is not very good music,
containing
>a number of fundamental mistakes in construction that really grate on the
>ear. One correspondent called it "a miserable little piece of crap".
I'm relatively new to both classical music and this group, but I can't
help but be amazed by the frequency with which this answer emerges.
Now, I'll agree with those who say this music is a lousy rip-off of
Vivaldi, and would heartily encourage anyone who enjoys Jenkins' music to
give Vivaldi or other baroque composers a listen. However, it seems to me
that this lousy bit of commercial music generates more questions from
newbies than any other single work! Doesn't that tell you that Jenkins
has managed to grab people's attention here? Isn't that at least part of
what music is supposed to do? As far as writing music for a commercial
goes, it's extremely engaging, judging by the response it generates here.
Of course, Mr. Brooks here was at least civil in his response. That's far
more than many around here can manage when someone pokes their head in
asking about this piece.
Jim Cook
Doctor Gonzo
scigu...@aol.com wrote:
>...Doesn't that tell you that Jenkins
>has managed to grab people's attention here?
...with the help of consultants and psychoacousticians!
>Isn't that at least part of
>what music is supposed to do?
Yes, but Jenkins shouldn't need the help of "experts" to write "good
music." This is music designed, executed, engineered and broadcast to
induce people to buy product... surely DeBeers are happy that diamond
sales are up, and surely Jenkins, his publisher, and Sony are happy
that the "music" has taken on its own life as "product."
Trouble is, I find the music-as-music poorly written in both its
broadcast and CD versions... wallpaper music, superficial crap at
best.
The Doc
Check out a mind-bending "separated at birth?" discovery at
http://www.pipeline.com/~drgonzo/sab/sab.htm
John M. Miano
In article <19970202092...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, scigu...@aol.com wrote:
>In article <5ctcv9$8u2$1...@towncrier.osf.org>, dbr...@x.org (David
>Brooks,139,7233) writes:
>
>>Most musicians will observe that Shadows is not very good music,
>containing
>>a number of fundamental mistakes in construction that really grate on the
>>ear. One correspondent called it "a miserable little piece of crap".
>
>I'm relatively new to both classical music and this group, but I can't
>help but be amazed by the frequency with which this answer emerges.
When you study part writing in music theory you learn about the no-no's of
part changes. Two of these no-nos are parallel fifths and octaves.
The the opinion expressed relates to the piece being:
1. A bad parody of Vivaldi.
2. A poorly done one at that.
Jonathan Addleman
On Sun, 02 Feb 97 19:20:53 GMT, mi...@worldnet.att.net (John M. Miano)
wrote:
>
>When you study part writing in music theory you learn about the no-no's of
>part changes. Two of these no-nos are parallel fifths and octaves.
>
>The the opinion expressed relates to the piece being:
>
>1. A bad parody of Vivaldi.
>2. A poorly done one at that.
Though I don't like the piece, and don't mean to compare its greatness
(such as it is) with the following, I would offer the comparison of
Schnitke's concerto Grosso 1. It, too, is quite blatantly rooted in
Vivaldi, and it too, breaks just about every rule in the "baroque
composer's user manual", but it is an incredibly moving piece. One of
the few that I find genuinely frightening (I wish I knew it when that
thread was going on...). I just want to point out that rules, or lack
of them doesn't make a piece, and that it's possible to use some
facets of another composer's work without being only a bad parody.
BTW, DON'T think I'm elevating the commercial music - I'm only saying
that I don't necessarily say it's bad for the same reasons that you
do.
D.G. Porter
John M. Miano wrote:
>
> When you study part writing in music theory you learn about the no-no's of
> part changes. Two of these no-nos are parallel fifths and octaves.
>
> John
I'll go along with the octaves but not parallel fifths. That's a stupid
"rule" and those rules were made up so aristocrats could play "mine's
better!" with other aristocrats. What do you say to the opening of
Copland's "Billy the Kid," or Ives' "December" or "Over the Pavements,"
or Grainger's "Lisbon Bay"? Corelli was disparaged because someone
detected "hidden 5ths" (great googly-moogly!) in one of his scores.
(Hidden 5ths aren't even real 5ths, unless you hide one inside your vest
pocket and use a straw to drink from it.) And the great JSB, avoider of
5ths, wasn't regarded as a composer in his own time because "they" saw
him as an anachronism.
> Save money...make Newt and Hillary share a cell!
Deal: I'll share a cell with Hillary (here, honey, drop the soap!), and
you can share one with the pompous ass with the big nonstop mouth!
DGP
Matt Kennel
scigu...@aol.com wrote:
: Now, I'll agree with those who say this music is a lousy rip-off of
: Vivaldi, and would heartily encourage anyone who enjoys Jenkins' music to
: give Vivaldi or other baroque composers a listen. However, it seems to me
: that this lousy bit of commercial music generates more questions from
: newbies than any other single work! Doesn't that tell you that Jenkins
: has managed to grab people's attention here?
Or DeBeers has rummaged through enough trashbins to get dozens of free
AOL disks and hires some interns to shill this ultrapasteurized vivaldi
music product.
Phil Cope
> scigu...@aol.com wrote:
>
> : Now, I'll agree with those who say this music is a lousy rip-off of
> : Vivaldi, and would heartily encourage anyone who enjoys Jenkins' music to
> : give Vivaldi or other baroque composers a listen. However, it seems to me
> : that this lousy bit of commercial music generates more questions from
> : newbies than any other single work! Doesn't that tell you that Jenkins
> : has managed to grab people's attention here?
I don't think it generates questions from newbies. I think it generates
questions from one-off posters who aren't really *that* interested in
classical music.
What deBeers are selling is essentially a 'lifestyle'. The beautiful
people
in the Ad's live in country piles, give or receive diamond jewellery,
and
listen to Jenkins-style pseudo-Vivaldi. If you want to be part of this
world
buy the jewellery - thats the intended message. If you want to be part
of
this world buy the music" is another message; whether its intended or
not
who knows? But the people who post questions on r.m.c about it may not
care
very much about the music per-se, but more about what they think owning
it
says about them!
Phil Cope
--
All opinions expressed in this message are purely personal and do not
reflect the opinions or policies of Smallworldwide
Mark Starr
For all those who dearly love ersatz, insipid, Vivaldi-flavored musical
wallpaper, you will absolutely adore the new Pampers TV commercial.
Regards,
Mark Starr
David Sherman
>I'll go along with the octaves but not parallel fifths. That's a stupid
>"rule" and those rules were made up so aristocrats could play "mine's
>better!" with other aristocrats.
D.G. I think you're missing the point a little here. Maybe "rules" is a
bad word. How about "guidelines" or "suggestions". Would that sit better
with you? They aren't laws. The composition cops aren't going to take you
away in handcuffs if you have parallel 5th's in your music. And where you
get this aristocracy stuff is anybody's guess.
BUT, I will say that it is a very useful guideline when learning theory
and doing harmony / figured bass exercises. It's a guideline that forces
you to think ahead when writing harmony with four independent voices, and
also forces you to try to rethink voice leading if you have chosen an easy
way out and included parallel 5th's or parallel octaves.
>What do you say to the opening of
>Copland's "Billy the Kid," or Ives' "December" or "Over the Pavements,"
>or Grainger's "Lisbon Bay"? Corelli was disparaged because someone
>detected "hidden 5ths" in one of his scores.
Yes, yes, yes. The secret is out. The world is full of examples of
parallel 5th's. The fact is m'man that parallel 5th's are the exception
and not the rule especially dealing with music form the era of common
harmonic practice. Sorry, that's just how it is.
> (great googly-moogly!)
Do I detect a Zappa fan here?
--
dshe...@panix.com \%\
\%\
\%\ "Why I oughtta..."
\%\ -Moses Horowitz
NCKenfield
snip > It is part of a multi-part work and the rest of his music is
great! <
I seriously challenge the use of "great" in connection with this piece of
commercial crap.
>Minimalism meets Celtic Baroque!<
And the perfect subsitute for sticking your finger down your throat when
you need to hurl
Peter Kwok
ncken...@aol.com (NCKenfield) writes:
I have read the diamond music bashing thread which appeared in
r.m.c. a while ago; I have listened to the CD; but I still don't
understand what is so bad about it that it deserves condemnation
from all over the world. Did Jenkin do something seriously
wrong? or is it just that musicians are trained to be cynical
and unforgiving?
Peter
--
_______________________________________________________________
Peter Kwok | "May we not describe Music as the Mathematics
p-k...@uiuc.edu | of Sense, and Mathematics the Music of
U. of Illinois | Reasons?" --- J. J. Sylvester
Doctor Gonzo
p-k...@hp48.cs.uiuc.edu (Peter Kwok) wrote:
>Did Jenkin do something seriously wrong?
He wrote bad music imitative of at least one highly regarded and
popular Baroque work I can name...
>or is it just that musicians are trained to be cynical and unforgiving?
No, they're trained to be critical, and unforgiving of the patently
mediocre.