Need a latin scholar!!
Roger Lustig
>Ok, folks. For those of you who have subscribed to the Complete Mozart Edition and
>have received your shipment of canons (vol. 23), there is one canon which
>is listed only as 'an obscene pun'. All the others have been translated. I don't
>read Latin very well, so for those who do, could someone please translate this?
>Difficile lectu mihi mars et jonicu difficile.
The pun is not in Latin, but in German. The first four words are, in
Latin, approximately "The lessons of war are hard for me."
But if you SAY those words, the 2nd through 4th words sound like the
German "Leck' du mich im Arsch," which means, "lick my arse."
To a liner-note writer, the game might not be worth the candle...
Roger
William Hohl
have received your shipment of canons (vol. 23), there is one canon which
is listed only as 'an obscene pun'. All the others have been translated. I don't
read Latin very well, so for those who do, could someone please translate this?
Difficile lectu mihi mars et jonicu difficile.
If it's really in bad taste, then please provide an overview of the references made,
not the explicit language.
Thanks for your help!
Bill
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Bill Hohl email: cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!hohl
Motorola Inc. MD OE38 __o
6501 William Cannon Dr. West -\<,
Noam Elkies
>>Difficile lectu mihi mars et jonicu difficile.
>The pun is not in Latin, but in German. The first four words are, in
>Latin, approximately "The lessons of war are hard for me."
>But if you SAY those words, the 2nd through 4th words sound like the
>German "Leck' du mich im Arsch," which means, "lick my arse."
>To a liner-note writer, the game might not be worth the candle...
...though it does prove that the pronunciation "mickey" of Latin "mihi"
was known at the time. [One easy way to get a chorus into an argument is
to have it sing text that contains the word "mihi".]
My questions: how far back is this pronunciation documented?
Is there a good reason to pronounce it this way? Is it an
isolated exception, or does the "h" also sound like a "k"
in such words as "nihil"?
--Noam D. Elkies (elk...@zariski.harvard.edu)
Department of Math., Harvard University
P.S. Something called the "Harvard Hymn" (written by J.K.Paine) that
gets trotted out every year at our Commencement Exercises includes
the line "virtus vivida valebit", whose pwonunication in Cwassical
Latin neuer fails to pwecipitate giggles in weheawsal.
Gabe M Wiener
Well, it sort of went like this. Mozart had a friend, I think the name was
Pereil (I may be botching the spelling here) who had a series speech
impediment of sorts. So Mozart and his friends devised a gag. I believe
that "Difficile lectu mihi mars et jonicu difficle" came out something
like "Leck du mich im Arsch" (someone correct me if I got that wrong) which
means, well, "Lick my...", when sung by Pereil with the speech impediment.
Anyway, Mozart's friend fell right into the trap. After he finished
singing, they turned the page over, and written on the other side was
a canon called "O du eselhafter Pereil" (Oh, you donkey-headed Pereil,
I think it is).
The second song was later rendered in another version, "O du eselhafter
Martin," which was directed at a Vienese impressario.
--
Gabe Wiener - Columbia Univ. "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings
gm...@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu to be seriously considered as a means of
N2GPZ in ham radio circles communication. The device is inherently of
72355,1226 on CI$ no value to us." -Western Union memo, 1877
Stan Brown
>...though it does prove that the pronunciation "mickey" of Latin "mihi"
>was known at the time. [One easy way to get a chorus into an argument is
>to have it sing text that contains the word "mihi".]
>
>My questions: how far back is this pronunciation documented?
>Is there a good reason to pronounce it this way? Is it an
>isolated exception, or does the "h" also sound like a "k"
>in such words as "nihil"?
When I was with the Cleveland Orchestra Chorus, Robert Page told us
that the 'h' was pronounced in 'mihi' and 'nihil' and no others.
Of course, he also had us pronouncing every 'qu' as 'kv'. Blech!
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA +1 216 371 0043
email: br...@ncoast.org -or- ap...@cleveland.freenet.edu
"You are not the only pebble on the beach." --Athill
Roger Lustig
>In article <1991Sep27....@husc3.harvard.edu> elk...@ramanujan.harvard.edu (Noam Elkies) writes:
>>...though it does prove that the pronunciation "mickey" of Latin "mihi"
>>was known at the time. [One easy way to get a chorus into an argument is
>>to have it sing text that contains the word "mihi".]
Actually, it doesn't prove that. In Austrian dialects,
"Leck du mi' im Ars"
would be understood just fine...
>>My questions: how far back is this pronunciation documented?
>>Is there a good reason to pronounce it this way? Is it an
>>isolated exception, or does the "h" also sound like a "k"
>>in such words as "nihil"?
I don't know too many Latin words with the -ihi- string...
I seem to recall something about this being legit for the 14th C, or
even for earlier Medieval Latin.
Roger
Mike Oliver
>...though it does prove that the pronunciation "mickey" of Latin "mihi"
>was known at the time. [One easy way to get a chorus into an argument is
>to have it sing text that contains the word "mihi".]
>
>Is there a good reason to pronounce it this way? Is it an
>isolated exception, or does the "h" also sound like a "k"
>in such words as "nihil"?
This appears to be based on the notion that "mich" is pronounced "meek."
This is true in certain dialects, and I certainly don't claim to know
how it was pronounced in 17th-century Vienna. But in today's Hochdeutsch,
the "ch" sound in "mich" may be produced by forcing air between the middle of
the tongue and the front of the hard palate; the sound is closer to "meesh"
than to "meek" or even "meekh." But "meesh" isn't correct either; it
uses the teeth too much.
--
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Mike Oliver
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