Schubert's "Ave Maria" - Text?
Ed Jabbour
Every time I have heard Schubert's "Ave Maria" it's been with the Latin
text of the Catholic "Hail Mary" - "Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum,
benedicta tu in mulieribus . . ." etc. E.g., on the CD Ave Maria, Philips,
Te Kanawa sings the above text, identified as Op. 52/6. However, I've
recently acquired Schubert Lieder on Teldec. There, Barbara Bonney
sings a poem by Sir Walter Scott entitled "Ellen's Song III, Hymn of
the Virgin" in German. It's a prayer to the Virgin by a "jungfrau mild,"
not the Latin text at all. It's also identified as Op. 52/6 (D 839).
Which did Schubert set to music? Both? Both have the same music exactly.
Have others appropriated his music for the Latin text? Does anyone know
what's going on here?
Thanks for any comments.
-- Ed Jabbour aa...@detroit.freenet.org
Robert A. Herrig
church in New York. "Ave Maria" was, of course, the most frequently
requested solo. Schubert's setting is a cinch compared to the
Bach/Gounod, and since all of the funerals occurred between 9am and
noon,* I usually took the easy way out and sang the Schubert. Having
said that, I still found fitting the liturgical text to the music
extremely difficult. Listen to a few recordings of the Latin version,
and you'll hear that singers divvy up the words differently--"gratia"
is a good example. Everybody tries tinkering around with it to make it
work better--it just goes to show how ill-suited the words are to the
melodic line.
* I once did five funerals in one morning--I'll reserve THAT story for
another posting.
Richard Morris
'Ave Maria' with Latin text, choirs, backgrounds of weeping strings etc.
etc. ad nauseum are nothing to do with Schubert, though I'll admit that
the Latin words do seem to fit pretty well. The original is normally
only sung by women, and is a classical Lieder with piano, though
Schubert used to play it 'on tour' with Vogl. If you have only ever
heard arrangements, I would encourage you to seek out the original.
I've recently sent the text of this song and the other Ellen Songs,
with the original text in English (or should I say Scottish) to Emily
Ezust to post on her Lieder text page (advert) which can be found at:
http://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~mindel/welcome.html
It's called 'Ellens Gesang III' because it is the third setting that
Schubert made of songs sung by Ellen Douglas in Sir Walter Scott's
'The Lady of the Lake'. He set a total of 8 songs from the 'Lady in
the lake' (2 of which were part songs if I remember correctly) which
were published together as Op 52. It is a prayer to the virgin Mary
sung by Ellen when she is in hiding.
Schubert himself was very proud of this one (well wouldn't you be). In
a letter home a 2 or 3 months after he wrote it, he says "They wondered
greatly at my piety which I expressed in a hymn to the holy Virgin and
which, it appears, grips every soul and turns it to devotion. I think
this is due to the fact that I have never forced devotion in myself
and never compose hymns or prayers of that kind unless it overcomes
me unawares; but then it is usually the right and true devotion".
There is an institute in the UK dedicated to appreciation of his music
and research into his life and works. For more information, EMail me.
Frank Daykin
But the SOURCE of the German is the English of Sir Walter Scott from his
novel The Lady of the Lake . . .
Timothy J. Mannion
>
>Every time I have heard Schubert's "Ave Maria" it's been with the Latin
>text of the Catholic "Hail Mary" - "Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum,
It isn't necessarily 'Catholic', but since latin was used as the official
church language for centuries, it might seem so. The prayer is the
biblical text uttered by St. Elizabeth, mother of St. John the Baptist,
upon the Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth. Generally, however, you might
be correct to assume it is Catholic, for the second part of the prayer is
purely the invention of the Church.
>benedicta tu in mulieribus . . ." etc. E.g., on the CD Ave Maria, Philips,
>Te Kanawa sings the above text, identified as Op. 52/6. However, I've
>recently acquired Schubert Lieder on Teldec. There, Barbara Bonney
>sings a poem by Sir Walter Scott entitled "Ellen's Song III, Hymn of
>the Virgin" in German. It's a prayer to the Virgin by a "jungfrau mild,"
>not the Latin text at all. It's also identified as Op. 52/6 (D 839).
>Which did Schubert set to music? Both? Both have the same music exactly.
>Have others appropriated his music for the Latin text? Does anyone know
>what's going on here?
On a bet, I'd say that Schubert penned his music for the German text,
however, every version I see in print as a singer shows English (!),
German, and Latin texts--but the German text has three discreet verses,
whereas the English and Latin ones have only two and repeat the first
verse after the second to compensate. Any other thoughts out there?
David Griegel
: Every time I have heard Schubert's "Ave Maria" it's been with the Latin
: text of the Catholic "Hail Mary" - "Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum,
: Te Kanawa sings the above text, identified as Op. 52/6. However, I've
: recently acquired Schubert Lieder on Teldec. There, Barbara Bonney
: sings a poem by Sir Walter Scott entitled "Ellen's Song III, Hymn of
: the Virgin" in German. It's a prayer to the Virgin by a "jungfrau mild,"
: not the Latin text at all. It's also identified as Op. 52/6 (D 839).
: Which did Schubert set to music? Both? Both have the same music exactly.
: Have others appropriated his music for the Latin text? Does anyone know
: what's going on here?
Schubert wrote the piece entitled Ellen's Song III in German as sung by
Bonney.
Dave
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Lawrence Snyder
: Every time I have heard Schubert's "Ave Maria" it's been with the Latin
: text of the Catholic "Hail Mary" - "Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum,
[...]
: recently acquired Schubert Lieder on Teldec. There, Barbara Bonney
: sings a poem by Sir Walter Scott entitled "Ellen's Song III, Hymn of
: the Virgin" in German. It's a prayer to the Virgin by a "jungfrau mild,"
: not the Latin text at all. It's also identified as Op. 52/6 (D 839).
: Which did Schubert set to music?
The ONLY text Schubert set in this song was Adam Storck's translation of
Ellen's prayer from Sir Walter Scott's "The Lady of the Lake." The latin
was attached later by other people who couldn't bear to think so lovely a
song with "Ave Maria" in each verse could possibly have secular origins.
==============================
Larry Snyder
ldsn...@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us
Davis Community Network
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