Recommendations for Beethoven's symphonies on period instruments ?
Peter Tommes
would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood and
Norrington are available.
Thanks, Peter.
Peter Tommes
Inst. fuer Anorganische Chemie I
Universitaet Duesseldorf
40225 Duesseldorf
Germany
Terje Rydland
tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de (Peter Tommes) wrote:
I have Hogwood in #9 and Norrington in #6 (and #2?). I don't like
Hogwoods #9 at all (bought at a sale). Norringtons way with #6 is much
better
to my ears.
I have not heard Norrington in #9 (or Hogwood in #6) so I cannot
directly compare the two, but so far I would prefer Norrington to Hogwood.
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Dept. of Informatics Fax.:07/591733 (+47-7-591733)
UNIT/AVH E-Mail:terje....@ifi.unit.no
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David Martland
: Which recordings of Beethoven's symphonies played on period instruments
--
David Martland, Dept. of Computer Science, Brunel University, United Kingdom
email: David.M...@brunel.ac.uk
Tel: (+44) 0/895 - 274000 ext 2139 [Overseas callers should suppress
Fax: (+44) 0/895 - 256186 the leading zero of the area code]
David Martland
: Peter Tommes (tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de) wrote:
: : Which recordings of Beethoven's symphonies played on period instruments
: : would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood and
: : Norrington are available.
: : Thanks, Peter.
So much for the New Year - this is the 3rd time I'm having to
type this - because our software loses the postings! C'est la vie!
I would recommend ALL of the versions above, plus also
Frans Bruggen's on Philips.
Norrington and Hogwood are both good in #3, with N perhaps being
more imaginative, and Hogwood powerful, and leaving a
very good impression.
Similarly in #7 both are good, with N giving perhaps the most
beautiful performance of the slow movement I have heard
for a long while. H is again solid and powerful.
In #9 Hogwood is very strange, with erratic speeds, often slow.
Despite this, I shall still buy it when I have the money.
Norrington is perhaps a safer bet here,
although I found Goodman's version very exciting - perhaps the best here?
Last year's Prom performance by Bruggen was very good - and followed up by a
CD. Sadly, the reviewers have not rated the recording so highly, although
I heard excerpts which were OK. This could still be one to look into.
Other performances by Bruggen's group are well worth hearing, including other
Beethoven, such as the Eroica.
For "period style performances on conventional instruments...!! " try
Harnoncourt.
The following (non period versions) are a few which I think are well
worth comparing other versions with.
1 & 2 Walter (this is really how these should go.)
2 Klemperer.
3 Bernstein and NYPO, Barbirolli (Bernstein is powerful, Barbirolli
is sonorous - I haven't heard the VPO Bernstein - I suspect
it is not so good, but could be worth hearing.)
4. Walter? (Harnoncourt is good here)
5. Kleibers .... (both father and son!)
6. ???? not sure ... Walter? Schmidt-Isserstedt? (I have Pretre - v. good)
7. Kleiber, Konwitschny
8. Toscanini
9. Furtwangler, Karajan (Schmidt-Isserstedt? - I even like Ansermet here!
...oh and Stokowski
Hope this gives you some ideas - you can find more in Deryk Barker's
Beethoven file.
Dave
Gadfly
terje....@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland) writes:
> I have Hogwood in #9 and Norrington in #6 (and #2?). I don't like
> Hogwoods #9 at all (bought at a sale). Norringtons way with #6 is much
> better to my ears.
> I have not heard Norrington in #9 (or Hogwood in #6) so I cannot
I have the complete Norrington/Hanover Band set. (I don't know if
it's still in print, but the whole 5-CD box went for ~$30, this
back in '89 or so, so I couldn't pass it up.) Anyway, I like his
quick, crisp interpretations of 1, 2, and 4. 6 is cleanly done,
but kind of bland. And 9 seems very modern. The singers (Eiddwen
Harrhy, Jean Bailey, Andrew Murgatroyd, and Michael George, none
of whom I was heretofore familiar with) have very pronounced
vibratos, although unlike most modern renditions with these folks
you can at least hear distinct pitches.
A month or so ago I heard on the radio Norrington conducting the
Amsterdam Concertgebouw doing Schubert's C-Major. He takes the
last movement real fast--essentially in 1. And yes!!! finally,
an interpretation from which the phrasing bursts forth! But be
warned--after you hear it all other renditions of that finale will
sound like "Bolero".
*** ***
Ken Perlow ***** *****
04 Jan 94 ****** ****** 15 Nivose An CCII
***** ***** gad...@ihspc.att.com
** ** ** **
...L'AUDACE! *** *** TOUJOURS DE L'AUDACE! ENCORE DE L'AUDACE!
Michael Dunn
I really hate the Norrington 9th! Some very odd sounding instruments, for
starters. If we're talking about a complete set from one group, my choice
would definitely be the Hannover Band. Their enthusiasm occasionally
outpaces their control, but overall I find the performances the most
enjoyable, and with the nicest sound quality. I've not heard enough
of the other sets to give a sym by sym recmdation...
Note that the Hannovers are available as a boxed set with symphonies only,
or as individual discs that include many overtures and some piano ctos.
The start of the slow (2nd) mvmnt of the 1st sym still gives me
goosebumps! It's also a great source for auditioning audio components.
Good Luck.
--
Michael Dunn
dwi...@uwindsor.ca
Deryk Barker
: In article <terje.rydland...@majestix.ifi.unit.no>,
: terje....@ifi.unit.no (Terje Rydland) writes:
: > I have Hogwood in #9 and Norrington in #6 (and #2?). I don't like
: > Hogwoods #9 at all (bought at a sale). Norringtons way with #6 is much
: > better to my ears.
: > I have not heard Norrington in #9 (or Hogwood in #6) so I cannot
: > directly compare the two...
: I have the complete Norrington/Hanover Band set. (I don't know if
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you mean Goodman. Norrington's cycle is with the London
Classical players.
: it's still in print, but the whole 5-CD box went for ~$30, this
: back in '89 or so, so I couldn't pass it up.) Anyway, I like his
: quick, crisp interpretations of 1, 2, and 4.
And Goodman didn't actually direct the earliest recordings. No.5 wsa
directed by Monica Huggett as I recall, and a truly direc performance
it is too.
: A month or so ago I heard on the radio Norrington conducting the
: Amsterdam Concertgebouw doing Schubert's C-Major. He takes the
: last movement real fast--essentially in 1. And yes!!! finally,
: an interpretation from which the phrasing bursts forth! But be
: warned--after you hear it all other renditions of that finale will
: sound like "Bolero".
You obviously have yet to hear Mackerras's OAE recording - the first
on period instrumentsm - which knocks Norrington's into a cocked hat.
Come to that Furtwaengler's approach to the finale is pretty swift too.
--
Deryk.
=================================================================
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Without music, life |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | would be a mistake |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
|phone: +1 604 370 4452 | (Friedrich Nietzsche).|
=================================================================
Tom Wood
I've heard all of the Norrington performances, and they're all quite
exciting. IMHO, the 9th is the weakest of the Norrington cycle. The
tenor and bass soloists are quite annoying; and while I'll accept his
contention that the orchestral recitative passage in the finale should be
played at a fast tempo, Norrington just can't pull it off in a musical
way.
The Hogwood 9th is VERY interesting: the large orchestra with doubled wind
and brass makes a wonderful sound, and the different elements of the
finale are well integrated. But the first movement, in particular, comes
off badly -- it seems like a lot of disjointed noise, which it should not
under good direction.
I've heard lots of good things about the Goodman/Hanover Band 9th, but
I haven't heard it. I have NOT liked some of the other symphonies
performed by the Hanover Band, however. The instumental balances seem
way out of kilter much of the time.
Have y'all seen some of the rapturous reviews of the Frans Brueggen/
Orchestra of the Eighteenth Century recording of the 5th? I'd like
to hear it!
--
===== . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .===== . . . . . . . . . . .=====
@uuu@ Tom Wood @uuu@ Sunt @uuu@
||| Sangamon State University ||| lacrimae |||
||| Springfield, Illinois USA ||| rerum. |||
||| wo...@eagle.sangamon.edu ||| ...Vergil |||
===== . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .===== . . . . . . . . . . .=====
Steven G. Ungar
>From: tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de (Peter Tommes)
>Subject: Recommendations for Beethoven's symphonies on period instruments ?
>Date: Mon, 3 Jan 1994 15:40:53 GMT
I have Hogwood in 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 9. I like them all, except for 4, which
is actually as bad as the critics have said. I think 9 is one of the best 9s
I've heard, and 5 is direct and visceral.
I also have Norrington on 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. In general, I don't like them
much, except for 4, which is just lovely, and 6, which is also pretty good.
I dislike 7 more each time I try it. I have also listened to 9 several times,
including an A/B with Hogwood. Norrington is generally considered to be
superb and Hogwood good in their respective 9s; I love Hogwood (see above),
and think that Norrington is dreadful and dull. Another poster commented that
Hogwood's tempi were slow in 9; I find them to be fast to conventional.
Goodman's set is performed well, but the sound is by Nimbus, which means that
there's enough reverberation to set your house vibrating. (I timed it once at
9 seconds). I just can't stand the sound. The early Hanover Band recordings
were conducted by Monica Huggett, who is a superb violinist but a poor
conductor...the results (combined with the reverb) are, for me, unacceptable.
I have heard some of Bruggen's work on the radio, and it is rather exciting,
and probably deserves careful consideration.
Hope this is of some help, or interest.
Steven Ungar
Gadfly
> I have the complete Norrington/Hanover Band set.
Yes I do, but if I'd stop to look at it once in a while instead
of just popping it into the player I'd remember that the HB was
directed by Goodman and Huggett, not Norrington.
> A month or so ago I heard on the radio Norrington conducting the
> Amsterdam Concertgebouw doing Schubert's C-Major.
Again, not Norrington, but Harnoncourt. Sorry about that.
*** ***
Ken Perlow ***** *****
05 Jan 94 ****** ****** 16 Nivose An CCII
Deryk Barker
[....]
: I also have Norrington on 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. In general, I don't like them
: I dislike 7 more each time I try it. I have also listened to 9 several times,
: including an A/B with Hogwood. Norrington is generally considered to be
: superb and Hogwood good in their respective 9s; I love Hogwood (see above),
: and think that Norrington is dreadful and dull. Another poster commented that
: Hogwood's tempi were slow in 9; I find them to be fast to conventional.
My biggest problem with Norrington (and I recall Hogwood was nearly as
bad) was the ludicrously slow tempi for the tenor solo with 'Turkish
music' in the finale.
David Martland
: Steven G. Ungar (s...@aries.bellcore.com) wrote:
: [....]
: : I also have Norrington on 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. In general, I don't like them
: : much, except for 4, which is just lovely, and 6, which is also pretty good.
: : I dislike 7 more each time I try it. I have also listened to 9 several times,
: : including an A/B with Hogwood. Norrington is generally considered to be
: : superb and Hogwood good in their respective 9s; I love Hogwood (see above),
: : and think that Norrington is dreadful and dull. Another poster commented that
: : Hogwood's tempi were slow in 9; I find them to be fast to conventional.
: My biggest problem with Norrington (and I recall Hogwood was nearly as
: bad) was the ludicrously slow tempi for the tenor solo with 'Turkish
: music' in the finale.
But surely Norrington takes the opening of the last movement twice as fast as everyone
else? At least, if my memory serves me! So you get more "variety" with Norrington.
Not quite so ludicrous as some of his Mozart, though - has anyone tried his late
Mozart symphonies! One of them - I think #39 has a hilarious opening.
Lamont Downs
>would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood and
>Norrington are available.
>Thanks, Peter.
>
pretty good nine with bits and pieces of each. My favorites:
1) Norrington (I find Hogwood rather strident in this one)
2) Norrington (one of his best)
3) Hogwood
4) Hogwood
5) Hogwood (an _exciting_ perfomance)
6) Norrington
7) Hogwood and Norrington a toss-up here, IMHO
8) Norrington (the other one of his best)
9) Not really happy with any of them, really; if I had to make
_one_ choice I'd probably take Hogwood, with Norrington a close second
Although I like a lot of Goodman's work, I find his Beethoven set hopelessly
marred by Nimbus' eccentric notion of good accoustics. Perhaps those with
Ambisonic decoders will differ (but his Schubert, also on Nimbus, is
magnificent!)
I'm sure you'll get the exact opposite of these recommendations from
someone else--like everything else, It All Depends.
Lamont Downs
do...@nevada.edu
Mary McGowan-Pettibone
I have every heard. Actually, the period instrument approach to
Beethoven for me was a complete revelation. I began with the #6, and
for the first time this work made sense, was entertaining, lively, and
conveyed a sense of people making music to be listened to as a
pleasure and entertainment, rather than some artistic exercise. I
have heard Walter (slow and boring), Bernstein, Previn, Szell, etc.
etc., and only Bruggen's makes this work come alive. It is as though
we had been looking at Rembrandt paintings redone in modern latex
colors, and now see the originals. The effect is that different.
Anyway, I heartily recommend Bruggen's Beethoven.
Deryk Barker
: In article <tommes.5....@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de> tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de (Peter Tommes) writes:
: >Which recordings of Beethoven's symphonies played on period instruments
: >would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood and
: >Norrington are available.
: >Thanks, Peter.
: >
: Well, I personally wouldn't recommend any one set, but you can assemble a
: pretty good nine with bits and pieces of each. My favorites:
: 1) Norrington (I find Hogwood rather strident in this one)
: 2) Norrington (one of his best)
: 3) Hogwood
Personally I think Brueggen's Eroica beats both Norrington and Hogwood
hands down.
---
Hank Heijink
>Lamont Downs (do...@helios.nevada.edu) wrote:
>: In article <tommes.5....@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de> tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de (Peter Tommes) writes:
>: >Which recordings of Beethoven's symphonies played on period instruments
>: >would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood and
>: >Norrington are available.
>: >Thanks, Peter.
>: >
>: Well, I personally wouldn't recommend any one set, but you can assemble a
>: pretty good nine with bits and pieces of each. My favorites:
>: 1) Norrington (I find Hogwood rather strident in this one)
>: 2) Norrington (one of his best)
>: 3) Hogwood
>Personally I think Brueggen's Eroica beats both Norrington and Hogwood
>hands down.
Ever tried Harnoncourt? I hear he recently recorded all nine of 'em. I
only heard the nineth and it sounded great, but as it was the first time
I ever heard the nineth, that doesn't mean much :-)
Anyway, Harnoncourt is imho the best conductor at this moment, so I'm
biased too.
>---
>Deryk.
>=================================================================
>|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Without music, life |
>|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | would be a mistake |
>|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | |
>|phone: +1 604 370 4452 | (Friedrich Nietzsche).|
>=================================================================
Nietsche was damned right.
Hank Heijink
--
Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong
Dire Straits (Industrial Disease)
Sylvio Tabor
> In <CJC1u...@suncad.camosun.bc.ca> dbarker@turing (Deryk Barker) writes:
>
> >Lamont Downs (do...@helios.nevada.edu) wrote:
> >: In article <tommes.5....@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de>
> tom...@ms.uni-duesseldorf.de (Peter Tommes) writes:
> >: >Which recordings of Beethoven's symphonies played on period
> instruments
> >: >would You recommend ? I know that recordings by Goodman, Hogwood
> and
> >: >Norrington are available.
> >: >Thanks, Peter.
> >: >
> Ever tried Harnoncourt? I hear he recently recorded all nine of 'em. I
> only heard the nineth and it sounded great, but as it was the first time
> I ever heard the nineth, that doesn't mean much :-)
> >---
> >Deryk.
Yes, Harnoncourt is simply the best (IMO), but it's not on period instruments!
--
Sylvio
Hank Heijink
>> Ever tried Harnoncourt? I hear he recently recorded all nine of 'em. I
>> only heard the nineth and it sounded great, but as it was the first time
>> I ever heard the nineth, that doesn't mean much :-)
>Yes, Harnoncourt is simply the best (IMO), but it's not on period instruments!
Isn't it? Sorry, I thought it was. It's a few months ago I lent that CD.
>--
>Sylvio
Hank
Stevan Apter
:
>
>Personally I think Brueggen's Eroica beats both Norrington and Hogwood
>hands down.
What do you think of Jaap Schroeder's (in the Smithsonian Collection,
also on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi)?
Deryk Barker
: In article <CJC1u...@suncad.camosun.bc.ca> dba...@camosun.bc.ca writes:
: :
: >
: >Personally I think Brueggen's Eroica beats both Norrington and Hogwood
: >hands down.
: What do you think of Jaap Schroeder's (in the Smithsonian Collection,
: also on Deutsche Harmonia Mundi)?
I confess to not having heard this one. (Well, you can't hear them
*all*). I seem to recall a moderately lukewarm Fanfare review though.