The 10 worst symphonies
davyd
why?
Jerry Kohl
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
Now *there* is a sensible question, at last!
Alberto Williams, Symphony No. 7 in D Major, op. 103 ("Eterno
reposa"), composed in 1937. It has no memorable ideas, is as shapeless
and drab as a worn-out burlap sack, and wobbles aimlessly back
and forth amongst the styles of Wagner, Richard Strauss, and
Rachmaninov, without ever coherently employing any of them, let
alone assimilating them into a plausible whole. Though I have not heard
any other symphonies by Mr. Williams, he must have composed better
ones than this--six at least. It may not be the worst symphony in the
history of the known universe, but I'd say it is a contender for the title.
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Nightingale
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
>
>
Incoming from Patterson...
--
Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
To all musicians, appear and inspire:
Translated Daughter, come down and startle
Composing mortals with immortal fire.
Jerry Kohl
> davyd wrote:
>
> > What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> > why?
> >
> >
>
> Incoming from Patterson...
I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
Nightingale
> Nightingale wrote:
>
>
>>davyd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>why?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Incoming from Patterson...
>
>
> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
>
Almost as bad as Banres's 3rd
Juan Jose Morales
religious music in Christendom--and Respighi, a jackdaw who tried to
pass himself off as a peacock by stealing the feathers of Baroque
composers who, unlike him, had real talent.
En el Nombre de DIOS Arriba Nosotros.
ajb723
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
>
>
Bruckner Sym #1,2,3,5,6,0
Dvorak #1,2,4
Shostakovich #15
--
Alan
Brendan R. Wehrung
Gee, I thought I was the only one unimpressed by Williams.
Brendan
--
Peter T. Daniels
>
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
Anything by Raff. Bo-o-o-ring! And he tried to take credit for Liszt's
orchestrations.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Marcello Penso
Hijod...@webtv.net says...
worth a listen, and certainly not 'the worst'.
Marcello
Jerry Kohl
Unimpressed?!! Unimpressed??!!! Weren't you listening?!!!
I am *very* impressed by Williams's 7th Symphony. I've
scarcely ever been so impressed by *any* symphony. The
impression is wholly unfavorable, but it is very strong, indeed!
Jerry Kohl
Agreed, and I don't understand how The Pines or Fountains can be
characterized as "stealing the feathers of baroque composers ..."
Apparently we are all agreed about Gounod, however ... ;-)
Jerry Kohl
But you did not remember to answer the all-important "why?"
I would be particularly interested to have your answer to that question
with reference to Bruckner's 5th and 6th, which I regard as among the
finest symphonies ever composed. Dvorak's 4th ain't half bad, either.
And why would you avoid Shostakovich's 15th, but not the 2nd or 3rd?
Nightingale
Jerry Kohl wrote:
> But you did not remember to answer the all-important "why?"
>
> I would be particularly interested to have your answer to that question
> with reference to Bruckner's 5th and 6th, which I regard as among the
> finest symphonies ever composed. Dvorak's 4th ain't half bad, either.
> And why would you avoid Shostakovich's 15th, but not the 2nd or 3rd?
>
Yes, the reason why are much more interesting than just a list.
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and
serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely
to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
Richard Schultz
: I actually think Respighi wrote some fine orchestral music. Definitely
: worth a listen, and certainly not 'the worst'.
Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
in the top 10 most annoying composers in history. I once attended a concert
in which one of the pieces was his orchestration of the Bach c minor
Passacaglia and Fugue. The piece opens up with the ground bass being played
by. . . an organ! I mean, what's the point of "orchestrating" a piece for
organ if you're going to include an organ in the orchestra?
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska
Richard Schultz
: Agreed, and I don't understand how The Pines or Fountains can be
: characterized as "stealing the feathers of baroque composers ..."
They're just lousy pieces of music.
: Apparently we are all agreed about Gounod, however ... ;-)
Actually, I quite like Gounod's symphonies. It's not the deepest music
ever written, but it's quite pleasant.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Richard Schultz
: Dvorak's 4th ain't half bad, either.
I'll admit that Dvorak's 4th is a "guilty pleasure" for me. It's a bit
too derivative to be on the list of great symphonies, but the scherzo is
a lot of fun. On the other hand, the symphony that the OP left off his
list -- Dvorak's 3d -- is a great piece of music and it's a shame that
it's not better known. (Everyone but Alan Watkins will probably like
the Kertesz/London Symphony Orchestra recording, which is or was available
as part of a 2-CD set of the early Dvorak Symphonies.)
I've never been able to get into Bruckner's 5th, but I agree with you that
Bruckner's 6th is one of the great ones. It's also a great piece of music
for playing at high volume when you're driving down the highway.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
". . . Mengelberg was not the kind of artist who would let us walk home
after a concert with the feeling of having experienced an extraordinary
musical event."
-- Max Rudolf, _The Grammar of Conducting_
Christopher Green
Not sure I agree with you on Gounod; I definitely don't agree with you
on Respighi. His compositions are simply too loud, too vulgar, and too
much fun to be really bad. I sort of feel the same way about Orff and
Scriabin.
Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
Stockhausen (in a class by himself), Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
Telemann, Michael Haydn, and Grainger aren't consequential enough to
really dislike.
--
Chris Green
Jerry Kohl
> In article <40E236D6...@comcast.net>, Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> : Dvorak's 4th ain't half bad, either.
>
> I'll admit that Dvorak's 4th is a "guilty pleasure" for me. It's a bit
> too derivative to be on the list of great symphonies, but the scherzo is
> a lot of fun. On the other hand, the symphony that the OP left off his
> list -- Dvorak's 3d -- is a great piece of music and it's a shame that
> it's not better known. (Everyone but Alan Watkins will probably like
> the Kertesz/London Symphony Orchestra recording, which is or was available
> as part of a 2-CD set of the early Dvorak Symphonies.)
>
> I've never been able to get into Bruckner's 5th, but I agree with you that
> Bruckner's 6th is one of the great ones. It's also a great piece of music
> for playing at high volume when you're driving down the highway.
And in any case, none of these are real contenders for a "ten worst" list.
I mean, we haven't even gotten to the Villa-Lobos symphonies yet, none
of which can seriously be regarded as superior to anything by Bruckner,
Dvorak, or Shostakovich. And Villa-Lobos is miles better than Alberto
Williams. I re-listened to Camargo Guarnieri's Third Symphony tonight,
thinking it might be a candidate for this list, but it is really not that awful.
Weak first movement, and the finale absolutely reeks of Aaron Copland,
but the middle movement in more than merely competent, and the many
Villa-Lobosisms in it are not enough to be fatal.
Another Brazilian symphony that should certainly be nominated,
however, is the Apocalypse Symphony, jointly composed by José de
Paiva Netto and Almeida Prado, in 1989. As a committee project,
perhaps this belongs in a separate category (along with Paul
McCartney's Liverpool Oratorio, by Carl Davis). Paiva Netto is a
musical amateur, and Prado is probably responsible for most of the
technical side of the composition. It may not be quite as awful as
Williams's Seventh, but it is dull as ditch water and twice as murky.
Not to leave the impression that South America has a monopoly
on the dreadful symphony, I should like also to nominate Roy
Harris's Fourth Symphony ("Folksong"), which is a steep plunge
from his superb Third Symphony.
Getting out of the Americas altogether, Andrzej Panufnik has his
admirers, but I am not one of them. It is difficult to make a choice
from among so many abysmal examples of the form, but I will
plump for his Eighth Symphony ("Sinfonia Votiva"), as marginally
the most disastrous.
But now I am leaving the impression that only the twentieth
century is capable of producing the truly disgusting symphony.
Not true, as the symphonies of Louis Spohr prove beyond a
doubt. His Sixth Symphony (the "Historische"), in G Minor,
Op. 116 (1839) is the clear front-runner, and probably beats
even the 19-year-old Richard Wagner's Symphony in C Major
(1832) for nomination to represent 19th-century Germany in
this prestigious contest. Wagner would probably have to be
disqualified in any case because, unlike all the other nominees
on my list, his symphony does not sport a pretentious subtitle.
tho...@antispam.ham
> Nightingale wrote:
>> davyd wrote:
>>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>> why?
>> Incoming from Patterson...
> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
Have you even heard Barnes' Second Symphony, Kohl?
tho...@antispam.ham
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
>> Nightingale wrote:
>>> davyd wrote:
>>>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>> why?
>>> Incoming from Patterson...
>> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
> Almost as bad as Banres's 3rd
Who is "Banres", nightingale?
Thomas Muething
>
> Anything by Raff. Bo-o-o-ring! And he tried to take credit for Liszt's
> orchestrations.
I always suspected this to be boasting on Raff's part. His own works are
*much* better orchestrated than anything by Liszt.
Thomas
Thomas Muething
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
I got to say:
- Bernhard Schmidt-Kowalski's 3rd Symphony (and that's just because I
haven't heard the first two, and I'm not gonna...) - he is a
"contemporary composer", but he writes in the style of Brahms and
Schumann. The symphony is also devoid of anything even remotely
resembling "inspiration". It was released by Naxos, but, wisely, only in
Germany.
- Michael Daugherty, Metropolis Symphony - absolute neo-xxx crap.
- Philip Glass, "Low" Symphony - low indeed, neo-romantic/minimalistic
kitsch at its worst.
- Havergal Brian, Symphony No.4 "Das Siegeslied" - terribly heavy-going
pseudo-Teutonic muddle
- Franz Liszt, Dante Symphony -
ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
Thomas
Peter T. Daniels
Even if that were so, what difference would it make, since they're
unlistenable?
Dr.Matt
Some of us tend to tune out music which doesn't interest us.
Really, strong negative reactions, historically, have applied
primarily to highly influential works--the worst you can say
about a piece of music is "well, that's over now".
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
"Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria."
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Daniel Kolle
(Richard Schultz) thought hard and said:
>Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
>in the top 10 most annoying composers in history.
Mendelssohn would have to be in there, too. He never seems to be able
to end his works. They just go on and on and.
On and on...
And...
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tviett are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
Daniel Kolle
said:
>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>why?
Any Bach symphony.
Dr.Matt
Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard and
>said:
>
>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>why?
>
>Any Bach symphony.
And also any entry by J S Bach in the International Electronic Music Festivals.
Rich.Andrews
news:cuyEc.39$iK....@news.itd.umich.edu:
> In article <ipb5e0538h69dv682...@4ax.com>,
> Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard and
>>said:
>>
>>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague,
>>>and why?
>>
>>Any Bach symphony.
>
> And also any entry by J S Bach in the International Electronic Music
> Festivals.
>
Richard Dubugnon's "Arcane Symphonique" is quite horrible, thank you.
Almost as bad as Vogon poetry.
r
--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.
Nightingale
> Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
> Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative posts.
> Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
> The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
Nightingale
> In article <ipb5e0538h69dv682...@4ax.com>,
> Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard and
>>said:
>>
>>
>>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>why?
>>
>>Any Bach symphony.
>
>
> And also any entry by J S Bach in the International Electronic Music Festivals.
>
LOL!
Nightingale
You would have to ask Don. He keeps mentioning him, but I've been
unable to track down any recordings ;-)
Seriously Tholen, it was just a joke. I have a recording of Barnes's
3rd that I like - I haven't heard anything else of his yet, but soon.
I'm going to be ordering some CDs over the summer & he's on my wishlist
to hear more of.
Dr.Matt
>Christopher Green wrote:
>> Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
>> Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
>
>I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
>now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative posts.
>
>> Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
>> The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
>
>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
I agree about the Purcell, but wonder why he says that about Barber.
graham
"Daniel Kolle" <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qgb5e0pf7rbn6gpq9...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:06:00 +0000 (UTC), sch...@mail.biu.ack.il
> (Richard Schultz) thought hard and said:
>
> >Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
> >in the top 10 most annoying composers in history.
>
> Mendelssohn would have to be in there, too. He never seems to be able
> to end his works. They just go on and on and.
> On and on...
> And...
Graham
Nightingale
> In article <2kfu26F...@uni-berlin.de>, Nightingale <si...@music.ca> wrote:
>
>>Christopher Green wrote:
>>
>>>Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
>>>Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
>>
>>I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
>>now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative posts.
>>
>>
>>>Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
>>>The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
>>
>>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
>
>
> I agree about the Purcell, but wonder why he says that about Barber.
>
LOL!
Richard Schultz
:>> The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
:>
:>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
:
: I agree about the Purcell, but wonder why he says that about Barber.
I can't believe that the author of "Knoxville: Summer of 1915" could
possibly be on anyone's ten worst list. As for Purcell, I always think
of him as the composer who drove the studio engineer of our college radio
station insane. It seems that they were doing a program of Purcell's
music that lasted several hours, and she had to spend most of that time
putting up a new LP (this was in the days of LPs) every 30 seconds, since
whoever arranged the program wanted it in some bizarre order that involved
taking a single 30 second track from each record of Purcelll's music
ever made. . .
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
graham
"Nightingale" <si...@music.ca> wrote in message
news:2kfu26F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Christopher Green wrote:
> > Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
> > Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
>
> I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
> now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative
posts.
>
> > Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
> > The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
>
> I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
>
made".
Graham
Nightingale
Or "What can we poor females do?"
It was a different world.
graham
> graham wrote:
> > "Nightingale" <si...@music.ca> wrote in message
> > news:2kfu26F...@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> >>Christopher Green wrote:
> >>
> >>>Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
> >>>Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
> >>
> >>I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
> >>now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative
> >
> > posts.
> >
> >>>Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
> >>>The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
> >>
> >>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
> >>
> >
> > I wonder what Gloria Steinem thinks of Purcell's "Man is for the woman
> > made".
> >
>
> Or "What can we poor females do?"
>
> It was a different world.
>
changed;-)
Graham
Marcello Penso
says...
his Symphonie Concertante either, but in both cases I'd have to say the
point is to have some fun with orchestral color, and I can't say there's
nothing compositionally bad about that. Sometimes, it's good to keep
things slim and trim; at other times pulling all the stops may be called
for.
As for most annoying 'composers', I'd say the latest rap/grunge/techno
composers qualify most deservedly for that title.
Marcello
Owain Sutton
My single nomination is Corigliano's mawkish, sentimental, derivative,
introverted, introspective 'Aids symphony'. Horrid piece.
Oh, and Khachaturian 3 - well, it's either the worst, or the best,
depending just how overblown you like your forcefully enforced Soviet
propoganda.
Marcello Penso
says...
>
> Getting out of the Americas altogether, Andrzej Panufnik has his
> admirers, but I am not one of them. It is difficult to make a choice
> from among so many abysmal examples of the form, but I will
> plump for his Eighth Symphony ("Sinfonia Votiva"), as marginally
> the most disastrous.
>
I actually like Panufnik's Sinfonia Rustica. I also had his Universal
Prayer at one time, which I don't remember much anymore, but do remember
thinking it was decent enough at the time.
There was a piece I heard over a month ago on NPR, a new composition by
a young (late 20s- early 30s) composer which I found to be just too
much. I believe it was his first symphony of sorts....but can't remember
the name of composer or the piece. It was like Donald Erb's Prismatic
Variations on really raunchy acid.
Marcello
Dr.Matt
Actually, the remarkable thing is that it was this same world, with
different people in it! :)
Nightingale
>
> I can't believe that the author of "Knoxville: Summer of 1915" could
> possibly be on anyone's ten worst list. As for Purcell, I always think
> of him as the composer who drove the studio engineer of our college radio
> station insane. It seems that they were doing a program of Purcell's
> music that lasted several hours, and she had to spend most of that time
> putting up a new LP (this was in the days of LPs) every 30 seconds, since
> whoever arranged the program wanted it in some bizarre order that involved
> taking a single 30 second track from each record of Purcelll's music
> ever made. . .
>
How strange. I can see why that would drive the poor guy insane.
Peter H. Granzeau
>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>why?
>
Generally, if a work is on record, someone thought it should be heard
(although you might want to avoid works which were premiered by the
conductor and orchestra not long before release of the recording).
Bad works from the public domain don't get recorded (many good works
from the PD don't get recorded, either, of course).
The final arbiter of which works should avoided is yourself. If you
hear a work, and don't like it, don't listen to it any more. If you
were unlucky enough to have bought it in a cording, you can always
recycle the media to your public library or local classical music
station.
Thomas Muething
>
> Even if that were so, what difference would it make, since they're
> unlistenable?
They're not unlistenable. What they occasionally lack is drama, but his
best symphonies (Nos. 3 & 5) can stand comparison with the best of 19th
century Romanticism. His scherzos are better orchestrated than
Mendelssohn's (from which they take their inspiration), his programmatic
grouping of movements foreshadows Mahler (his style does not, fortunately).
Thomas
Brendan R. Wehrung
> davyd schrieb:
>
>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>> why?
>
> I got to say:
>
> - Bernhard Schmidt-Kowalski's 3rd Symphony (and that's just because I
> haven't heard the first two, and I'm not gonna...) - he is a
> "contemporary composer", but he writes in the style of Brahms and
> Schumann. The symphony is also devoid of anything even remotely
> resembling "inspiration". It was released by Naxos, but, wisely, only in
> Germany.
>
Self-financed recording?
Brendan
> - Michael Daugherty, Metropolis Symphony - absolute neo-xxx crap.
>
> - Philip Glass, "Low" Symphony - low indeed, neo-romantic/minimalistic
> kitsch at its worst.
>
> - Havergal Brian, Symphony No.4 "Das Siegeslied" - terribly heavy-going
> pseudo-Teutonic muddle
>
> - Franz Liszt, Dante Symphony -
> ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
>
> Thomas
>
>
--
Alan Watkins
worst or best composers but only what is on the page . It is the
audience or listeners who decide who is worst or best.
Either way you have to play it to the best of your ability and I think
it is the not knowing the worst or best which makes the business so
attractive.
Of course you look at parts from time to time and think hmmmmm.....but
that is just my section and it might not apply to parts in the other
sections (and frequently does not and vice versa).
Mendelssohn, for example, writes wonderfully well for the timpani in
his choral works but not so well in the symphonies which are plagued
with awkward writing not to be found in the Psalms and Oratorios.
Mr Barber has a place in percussion folklore in Knoxville: Summer of
1915 for there is one player only who gets one note on the triangle.
That's it.
However the extremely difficult zylophone part in Medea ballet is a
wholly different matter which is why it turns up in auditions
throughout the world. In Medea he also requires a cymbal to be played
with a file.
Ditto the solo snare part in Suppe "Pique Dame" or the killer crush
rolls in Smetana Bajaderen Galopp or the wonderful writing for it in
Gaiete Parisienne (arr Rosenthal) or the wonderful writing for timpani
in Sibelius Symphony 6 or Imperial March (Williams).
No idea about best or worst, I am happy to say. Down to the audience,
I think.
I just ask that they give me a chance.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
graham
"ajb723" <ajb...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:BD078621.B2876%ajb...@optonline.net...
>
>
> > What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague,
and
> > why?
> >
Beethoven.
Here is an excellent example of the pot calling the kettle black.
Graham
Peter T. Daniels
You misspelled "unfortunately."
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Jerry Kohl
> In article <40E234F5...@comcast.net>,
> Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >"Brendan R. Wehrung" wrote:
> >
> >> Jerry Kohl (jerom...@comcast.net) writes:
> >> > davyd wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> >> >> why?
> >> >
> >> > Now *there* is a sensible question, at last!
> >> >
> >> > Alberto Williams, Symphony No. 7 in D Major, op. 103 ("Eterno
> >> > reposa"), composed in 1937. It has no memorable ideas, is as shapeless
> >> > and drab as a worn-out burlap sack, and wobbles aimlessly back
> >> > and forth amongst the styles of Wagner, Richard Strauss, and
> >> > Rachmaninov, without ever coherently employing any of them, let
> >> > alone assimilating them into a plausible whole. Though I have not heard
> >> > any other symphonies by Mr. Williams, he must have composed better
> >> > ones than this--six at least. It may not be the worst symphony in the
> >> > history of the known universe, but I'd say it is a contender for the title.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
> >> > "Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Gee, I thought I was the only one unimpressed by Williams.
> >
> >Unimpressed?!! Unimpressed??!!! Weren't you listening?!!!
> >I am *very* impressed by Williams's 7th Symphony. I've
> >scarcely ever been so impressed by *any* symphony. The
> >impression is wholly unfavorable, but it is very strong, indeed!
>
> Some of us tend to tune out music which doesn't interest us.
> Really, strong negative reactions, historically, have applied
> primarily to highly influential works--the worst you can say
> about a piece of music is "well, that's over now".
I find it fascinating, though, that such different things cause this
"tuning out", and these "strong, negative reactions". The negative
reactions are not, for me, a valid criterion for "worst symphonies"--
on the contrary, they hold out great promise for the works in
question. I must hasten to add that, in the case of the Williams
Seventh, my judgment is not based on "strong negative reactions"
so much as the lack of anything of real musical interest. It's very
lack of compositional fibre is what I find so richly qualifies it
for the scrapheap of history to which it had been consigned--until
a recent recording brought it to my attention.
Jerry Kohl
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:06:00 +0000 (UTC), sch...@mail.biu.ack.il
> (Richard Schultz) thought hard and said:
>
> >Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
> >in the top 10 most annoying composers in history.
>
> Mendelssohn would have to be in there, too. He never seems to be able
> to end his works. They just go on and on and.
>
> On and on...
>
> And...
Unlike the works of Mahler, of course ;-)
It once suddenly struck me, while listening to Messiaen's Turangalîla
Symphonie, that here was a composer of the most perfect miniatures
in all of music history ...
Jerry Kohl
> Jerry Kohl writes:
>
> > Nightingale wrote:
>
> >> davyd wrote:
>
> >>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> >>> why?
>
> >> Incoming from Patterson...
>
> > I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
>
> Have you even heard Barnes' Second Symphony, Kohl?
No, I have not. I just keep hearing these opinions bandied about on this
newsgroup, which is terribly confusing.
Jerry Kohl
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard and
> said:
>
> >What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> >why?
>
> Any Bach symphony.
What's wrong with Bach symphonies? W. A. Mozart admired them greatly,
and even modelled his own early efforts on them.
Jerry Kohl
> fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt) wrote in
> news:cuyEc.39$iK....@news.itd.umich.edu:
>
> > In article <ipb5e0538h69dv682...@4ax.com>,
> > Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard and
> >>said:
> >>
> >>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague,
> >>>and why?
> >>
> >>Any Bach symphony.
> >
> > And also any entry by J S Bach in the International Electronic Music
> > Festivals.
> >
>
> Richard Dubugnon's "Arcane Symphonique" is quite horrible, thank you.
> Almost as bad as Vogon poetry.
Sounds awful. I have this terrible pain in the diodes down my left side ...
Paul Ilechko
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
>
>
Brendan R. Wehrung
You could tell us who the most boring compeser to perform is, thoough?
Brendan
--
Daniel Kolle
Yeah, well at least Mahler varied his stuff somewhat.
--
-Daniel "Mr. Brevity" Kolle; 16 A.A. #2035
Koji Kondo, Yo-Yo Ma, Gustav Mahler, Krzysztof Penderecki, and Geirr Tviett are my Gods.
Head of EAC Denial Department and Madly Insane Scientist.
Richard Schultz
: Bad works from the public domain don't get recorded (many good works
: from the PD don't get recorded, either, of course).
Pull the other one -- it's got bells on it.
-----
Richard Schultz sch...@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
Thomas Muething
No I didn't.
Thomas
Thomas Muething
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
It's not a symphony, but Tony Banks' "Seven" is the worst orchestral
work I have ever heard.
Thomas
Jerry Kohl
Yes, you did.
Thomas Muething
>>Peter T. Daniels schrieb:
>>>
>>>You misspelled "unfortunately."
>>
>>No I didn't.
>
>
> Yes, you did.
No, I didn't.
Thomas
Thomas Muething
> What's wrong with Bach symphonies? W. A. Mozart admired them greatly,
> and even modelled his own early efforts on them.
Since you're mentioning Mozart: His first 27 symphonies certainly count
among the least interesting ever.
Thomas
Thomas Muething
> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> why?
Lest I forget: Amy Beach's "Gaelic Symphony". A total dud, would never
have been recorded hadn't it been written by woman.
Thomas
Christopher Eva
> In article <pQzEc.45$iK....@news.itd.umich.edu>, Dr.Matt <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
>
> :>> The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
> :>
> :>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
> :
>
> I can't believe that the author of "Knoxville: Summer of 1915" could
> possibly be on anyone's ten worst list. As for Purcell, I always think
> of him as the composer who drove the studio engineer of our college radio
> station insane. It seems that they were doing a program of Purcell's
> music that lasted several hours, and she had to spend most of that time
> putting up a new LP (this was in the days of LPs) every 30 seconds, since
> whoever arranged the program wanted it in some bizarre order that involved
> taking a single 30 second track from each record of Purcelll's music
> ever made. . .
>
I can't believe that Purcell and Copland, two of my favourite
composers, could come up in a thread called "The 10 worst composers".
Have you listened to much of Purcell's music? He's not generally known
for 30 second tracks. He is known for technical inventiveness (see the
Chacony in G minor, where an 8-bar ground bass is the basis for 5
minutes of wonderful string music), contrapuntal skill (see the
Fantazias), harmonic daring (see the anthem "Jehova, quam multi sunt
hostes mei"), the dancing rhythms he learned from Lully, the
sensitivity to text that was so admired by Benjamin Britten and
Michael Tippett, and depth of expression ("When I am laid in earth"
from Dido and Aeneas). Show me a finer composer in the whole of Europe
in the period 1650-1700. What makes Purcell's achievement even more
remarkable is that there was almost no musical activity in England in
the twenty years before Purcell's birth (Civil War, Interregnum,
Puritan crackdown).
Place to start for anyone who wants to discover some glorious music:
the anthem "My heart is inditing", for strings and 8-part choir,
composed by the 26-year-old Purcell for the coronation of King James
II in Westminster Abbey in 1685 - 16 minutes of magnificent music,
beautifully varied and combined with a command of large-scale tonal
organization unsurpassed by any other composer of the period.
Christopher Eva
tho...@antispam.ham
>>> Nightingale wrote:
>>>> davyd wrote:
>>>>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>>> why?
>>>> Incoming from Patterson...
>>> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
>> Have you even heard Barnes' Second Symphony, Kohl?
> No, I have not. I just keep hearing these opinions bandied about on this
> newsgroup, which is terribly confusing.
Whose opinion of the Second Symphony are you referring to, Kohl?
Nicolai P. Zwar
Dr.Matt
Funny, I chanced upon it on the CBC recently and it was pretty
darned good stuff.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
"Hey, don't knock Placebo, its the only thing effective for my hypochondria."
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Rich.Andrews
news:40E34F87...@comcast.net:
> "Rich.Andrews" wrote:
>
>> fie...@zektor.gpcc.itd.umich.edu (Dr.Matt) wrote in
>> news:cuyEc.39$iK....@news.itd.umich.edu:
>>
>> > In article <ipb5e0538h69dv682...@4ax.com>,
>> > Daniel Kolle <DKo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 22:14:47 -0400, "davyd" <d...@c.kom> thought hard
>> >>and said:
>> >>
>> >>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial
>> >>>plague, and why?
>> >>
>> >>Any Bach symphony.
>> >
>> > And also any entry by J S Bach in the International Electronic Music
>> > Festivals.
>> >
>>
>> Richard Dubugnon's "Arcane Symphonique" is quite horrible, thank you.
>> Almost as bad as Vogon poetry.
>
> Sounds awful. I have this terrible pain in the diodes down my left side
> ...
>
Have a Pan-Galactic - you'll feel better.
r
--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with DLT tapes.
Rich.Andrews
@comcast.net:
> Daniel Kolle wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:06:00 +0000 (UTC), sch...@mail.biu.ack.il
>> (Richard Schultz) thought hard and said:
>>
>> >Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
>> >in the top 10 most annoying composers in history.
>>
>> Mendelssohn would have to be in there, too. He never seems to be able
>> to end his works. They just go on and on and.
>>
>> On and on...
>>
>> And...
>
> Unlike the works of Mahler, of course ;-)
>
> It once suddenly struck me, while listening to Messiaen's Turangalīla
> Symphonie, that here was a composer of the most perfect miniatures
> in all of music history ...
>
Perfect miniatures? I have not heard that term before. Could you give me
some insight as to what that means?
Nightingale
Dr.Matt wrote:
> In article <cc0ko5$56l$00$1...@news.t-online.com>,
> Thomas Muething <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>>davyd schrieb:
>>
>>
>>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>why?
>>>
>>Lest I forget: Amy Beach's "Gaelic Symphony". A total dud, would never
>>have been recorded hadn't it been written by woman.
>>
>>
Why would that make any difference? The music is the important thing.
>
> Funny, I chanced upon it on the CBC recently and it was pretty
> darned good stuff.
>
>
That's what I thought as well.
--
The better the voyce is, the meeter it is to honour and
serve God there-with: and the voyce of man is chiefely
to be imployed to that ende.
Omnis spiritus laudet Dominum.
-William Byrd
Peter T. Daniels
A miniature is a very short piece.
The T. Symph. is a sequence of fairly short movements.
Christopher Green
> Christopher Green wrote:
> > Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
> > Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
>
> I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
> now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative posts.
>
> > Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
> > The more Purcell and Barber I hear, the less I want to hear more.
>
> I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
Probably because I think I'm supposed to like his music and don't hear
anything in it -- it's emotionally flat to me.
--
Chris Green
Christopher Green
> In article <pQzEc.45$iK....@news.itd.umich.edu>, Dr.Matt <fie...@rastan.gpcc.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
>
> :>
> :>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
> : I agree about the Purcell, but wonder why he says that about Barber.
>
> I can't believe that the author of "Knoxville: Summer of 1915" could
> possibly be on anyone's ten worst list.
Actually, it's the dreadful "Agnus Dei" on top of the Adagio for
Strings that curdles me. What's worse, my choir director loves an even
worse organ arrangement of it.
Can't say why I don't care for "Knoxville", but it puts me to sleep
every time. I've never been awake for the end of it.
--
Chris Green
Gareth Williams
>> I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
>
> Probably because I think I'm supposed to like his music and don't hear
> anything in it -- it's emotionally flat to me.
I used to think so and still do, to some extent. However, I've recently
revisited Purcell (mainly his religious works) and what his music may
lack in emotion it makes up for in spades in rhythmic variety, the
composer's innate sense of drama and his often surprisingly "modern"
harmonies.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
Peter H. Granzeau
<gram...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> They're not unlistenable. What they occasionally lack is drama, but his
>> best symphonies (Nos. 3 & 5) can stand comparison with the best of 19th
>> century Romanticism. His scherzos are better orchestrated than
>> Mendelssohn's (from which they take their inspiration), his programmatic
>> grouping of movements foreshadows Mahler (his style does not, fortunately).
>
>You misspelled "unfortunately."
You should take Vice President Cheney's advice.
Gareth Williams
>> > It once suddenly struck me, while listening to Messiaen's
>> > Turangalīla Symphonie, that here was a composer of the most perfect
>> > miniatures in all of music history ...
Turangalīla is about the only piece of music I know that makes me feel
physically sick in places - I mean genuinely nauseous. Don't get me wrong
- it's a brilliant piece and quite a favourite of mine, but the only one
that evokes that level of visceral reaction in me.
--
Regards, Gareth Williams
b s
> In article <zmBEc.914723$Pk3.588367@pd7tw1no>, graham <stra...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> >"Nightingale" <si...@music.ca> wrote in message
> >> graham wrote:
> >> > "Nightingale" <si...@music.ca> wrote in message
> >> > news:2kfu26F...@uni-berlin.de...
> >> >
> >> >>Christopher Green wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>Composers that make me want to yell "The Emperor has no clothes!" are
> >> >>>Stockhausen (in a class by himself),
> >> >>
> >> >>I've ended up falling in love with Stockhausen's music. I have 3 CDs
> >> >>now, and plan to order some more. I saved all of Jerry's informative
> >> >
> >> > posts.
> >> >
> >> >>>Cage, Copland, Elgar, and Liszt.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > made".
> >> >
> >>
> >> Or "What can we poor females do?"
> >>
> >> It was a different world.
> >>
> >But "Twas within a furlong of Edinburgh town" shows that some things haven't
> >changed;-)
> >Graham
>
> Actually, the remarkable thing is that it was this same world, with
> different people in it! :)
But people are part of the world
b s
I think your first title for the digest was the best. It is the
antagonist's digest. You only ever seem to jump in when you can argue
or contradict people, but you never just have a pleasant (or even
polite) conversation with anyone. I think the entire newsgroup should
just plonk you. You are also very inconsistant with what you put in
the digest - you continue the off-topic argument in the "Transit of
Venus" thread, but you move other comments which are no more
off-topic, including comments from somebody trying to be nice to you,
into your digest. If you were really interested in reducing
antagonism in the group, you would alter your "stand up to
antagonists" plan, and stand up and walk away from the computer.
b s
Oh, btw, the second symphony, like everything else he ever wrote, is
drivel. It's well crafted, competantly orchestrated, and totally
uninspired. Ditto the third. How can somebody who loves Stockhausen
and Byrd find anything of interest in Barnes?
b s
> Dr.Matt wrote:
>
> > In article <cc0ko5$56l$00$1...@news.t-online.com>,
> > Thomas Muething <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote:
> >
> >>davyd schrieb:
> >>
> >>
> >>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
> >>>why?
> >>>
> >>Lest I forget: Amy Beach's "Gaelic Symphony". A total dud, would never
> >>have been recorded hadn't it been written by woman.
> >>
> >>
>
>
> Why would that make any difference? The music is the important thing.
>
You are such an idealist!
tho...@antispam.ham
>> Jerry Kohl writes:
>>>>> Nightingale wrote:
>>>>>> davyd wrote:
>>>>>>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>>>>> why?
>>>>>> Incoming from Patterson...
>>>>> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
>>>> Have you even heard Barnes' Second Symphony, Kohl?
>>> No, I have not. I just keep hearing these opinions bandied about on this
>>> newsgroup, which is terribly confusing.
>> Whose opinion of the Second Symphony are you referring to, Kohl?
> Oh, btw, the second symphony, like everything else he ever wrote, is
> drivel.
On what basis do you make that claim, bisectional?
> It's well crafted, competantly orchestrated, and totally
> uninspired.
On what basis do you make that claim, bisectional?
> Ditto the third.
On what basis do you make that claim, bisectional?
> How can somebody who loves Stockhausen
> and Byrd find anything of interest in Barnes?
Irrelevant, given that we weren't discussing people who love
Stockhausen and Byrd, bisectional.
Thomas Muething
> Thomas Muething wrote:
>
>> No, I didn't.
>
>
> Sure you did. We all can see it.
No, I didn't.
Thomas
Jerry Kohl
> Rich.Andrews wrote:
> >
> > Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net> wrote in news:40E34B89.28D135F9
> > @comcast.net:
> >
> > > Daniel Kolle wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 05:06:00 +0000 (UTC), sch...@mail.biu.ack.il
> > >> (Richard Schultz) thought hard and said:
> > >>
> > >> >Respighi may not be the worst composer in history, but he's definitely
> > >> >in the top 10 most annoying composers in history.
> > >>
> > >> Mendelssohn would have to be in there, too. He never seems to be able
> > >> to end his works. They just go on and on and.
> > >>
> > >> On and on...
> > >>
> > >> And...
> > >
> > > Unlike the works of Mahler, of course ;-)
> > >
> > > It once suddenly struck me, while listening to Messiaen's Turangalîla
> > > Symphonie, that here was a composer of the most perfect miniatures
> > > in all of music history ...
> > >
> >
> > Perfect miniatures? I have not heard that term before. Could you give me
> > some insight as to what that means?
>
> A miniature is a very short piece.
>
> The T. Symph. is a sequence of fairly short movements.
That is certainly part of it, but I also meant that, in spite of the
*relatively*
long duration and grandiose manner of many of the movements, they are
actually quite simple in structure--just very slow to sound out.
Jerry Kohl
Patterson's, of course. Whose opinion did you think I was referring to, Tholen?
Jerry Kohl
> Thomas Muething wrote:
> > Jerry Kohl schrieb:
> >
> >>> Peter T. Daniels schrieb:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You misspelled "unfortunately."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No I didn't.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, you did.
> >
> >
> > No, I didn't.
>
> Sure you did. We all can see it.
Did, did, did, did, did! (So there!)
Nightingale
b s wrote:
Define world.
Nightingale
Christopher Green wrote:
Listen to Hear My Prayer - don't think you could call that emotionally
flat.
Jerry Kohl
... Gargle-Blaster? Much as I crave the sensation of having my brains
smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick,
I have so far been unable to locate the tooth of an Algolian Suntiger ...
Nightingale
Gareth Williams wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:47:32 -0700, Christopher Green wrote:
>
>
>>>I agree about Barber, but why do you say that about Purcell?
>>>
>>Probably because I think I'm supposed to like his music and don't hear
>>anything in it -- it's emotionally flat to me.
>>
>
> I used to think so and still do, to some extent. However, I've recently
> revisited Purcell (mainly his religious works)
His church music is what I learned first, and IMO his best.
Nightingale
b s wrote:
> Nightingale <si...@music.ca> wrote in message news:<40E419CF...@music.ca>...
>
>>Dr.Matt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <cc0ko5$56l$00$1...@news.t-online.com>,
>>>Thomas Muething <tmue...@t-online.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>davyd schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>>>why?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Lest I forget: Amy Beach's "Gaelic Symphony". A total dud, would never
>>>>have been recorded hadn't it been written by woman.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>Why would that make any difference? The music is the important thing.
>>
>>
>
> You are such an idealist!
>
>
So?
>
>
>>>Funny, I chanced upon it on the CBC recently and it was pretty
>>>darned good stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>That's what I thought as well.
>>
Alan Watkins
>
>
> You could tell us who the most boring compeser to perform is, thoough?
>
> Brendan
> --
I do not think any of them are boring because you still have to play
what you are given to the best of your ability....sometimes you just
wonder about the part:):)
I think that some seem (to me) to write "out of context" for the
section and a piece which falls into that category is Paganini Violin
Concerto No 1. I have no idea what the bass drum and cymbals are
doing in that because they sound totally out of a place in a
brilliant, lyrical spotlight for the violin.
I have often wondered whether Paganini actually wrote the parts or
whether someone else did it on his behalf (there are three editions I
think). Either way they are out of place and sound ugly and
inconsequential (in my opinion).
You still have to count it and give it your best go but there is no
musical "kick back" from it. I just wonder what the hell I am doing
in it.
It is not that I find it boring: just that I feel out of place. There
are many works in which a composer correctly decided to leave
percussion out entirely and I have no argument with any of them: there
are works I would ruin.
And there are works in which bass drum and cymbal are not appropriate.
Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
tho...@antispam.ham
>>>>> Nightingale wrote:
>>>>>> davyd wrote:
>>>>>>> What are some works that should be avoided like the proverbial plague, and
>>>>>>> why?
>>>>>> Incoming from Patterson...
>>>>> I haven't heard that one. Is it as bad as Barnes's Second Symphony?
>>>> Have you even heard Barnes' Second Symphony, Kohl?
>>> No, I have not. I just keep hearing these opinions bandied about on this
>>> newsgroup, which is terribly confusing.
>> Whose opinion of the Second Symphony are you referring to, Kohl?
> Patterson's, of course.
Where did Patterson state an opinion on the Second Symphony, Kohl?
> Whose opinion did you think I was referring to, Tholen?
Presumably someone who stated an opinion, Kohl.
Brendan R. Wehrung
> Jerry Kohl schrieb:
>
>>>Peter T. Daniels schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>You misspelled "unfortunately."
>>>
>>>No I didn't.
>>
>>
>> Yes, you did.
>
> No, I didn't.
>
>
TIMEOUT CORNER, BOTH OF YOU!
--
Alan Watkins
> It was a different world.
If you listen to the very rude tavern songs I think you might find it
is more or less the same world.
Nightingale
Alan Watkins wrote:
>>It was a different world.
>>
>
>
> If you listen to the very rude tavern songs I think you might find it
> is more or less the same world.
>
LOL! Perhaps so - I haven't spent much time listening to rude tavern
song of any era.
Alan Watkins
about at the time!
Brendan R. Wehrung
Currently, I think we're doing a fine job of (nearly) ignoring him.
I hope we keep up the good work, except when there's musical content to be
addressed.
Brendan
--
Jerry Kohl
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 15:06:44 +0000, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> >> > It once suddenly struck me, while listening to Messiaen's
> >> > Turangalîla Symphonie, that here was a composer of the most perfect
> >> > miniatures in all of music history ...
>
> Turangalîla is about the only piece of music I know that makes me feel
> physically sick in places - I mean genuinely nauseous. Don't get me wrong
> - it's a brilliant piece and quite a favourite of mine, but the only one
> that evokes that level of visceral reaction in me.
Not even Carmina Burana? (The one by Carl Orff, I mean ...)