Mozart's children
Allan F
I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
Roger L. Lustig
Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
had no children.
It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
Brahms, Wagner...
Roger
Axel Reichert
R. Iain Farquhar wrote:
>
> Ouch -- I bet Wieland Wagner in Bayreuth may be alarmed to hear that
> he's dead!
Ouch. He cannot be alarmed any more: He died. AFAIK 1967. You are
thinking of Wolfgang Wagner.
--
Axel Reichert () Free Speech Online
re...@mpie-duesseldorf.mpg.de /\ The Blue Ribbon Campaign
Richard R Uren~a
juli...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
>that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
Bach? Johann Sebastian Bach?
Then who fathered Emanuel, Friedrich, Christoph, Friedman, etc.?
Axel Reichert
But are they still alive? Read again, Rich ;-)
Krehbiel, Hanns
Roger L. Lustig wrote:
>
> Allan F wrote:
> >
> > I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
> > mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
> > children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
> > Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
> > the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
> had no children.
Two of his sons reached a mature age. One of them had children, but that was it.
Sorry, my sources are at home, but where is Margaret M.?
> It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
> that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
> Brahms, Wagner...
With Wagner you are certainly wrong! His descendants live among us alive and
kicking; their name is Wagner, sometimes one is still producing grandpa's
operas. Among them there is more or less harmony.
However your list may be extended:
Bruckner, Schubert, Wolf, Tchaikowskij, Verdi....
Daniel N Leeson
Mozart and his wife had several children, I think 5. Only two survived,
both boys. Neither married nor had children, at least legitimate ones.
There is a rumor having to do with a woman named Hofdamel who was accused
by her husband of having had a child fathered by Mozart. She had the
child and disappeared into the east. No one knows the truth or falsity of
that story or what happened to Mrs. Hofdamel.
Mozart's sister married and I think had children by her husband but I
am not at all certain of this. I know that she married a widower who
had children by a previous marriage and that may be making it all mixed
up in my head.
I know nothing about what happened with respect to Mozart's aunts
and uncles and their children, or even further generations back.
Jonathan Addleman
>Allan F wrote:
>>
>> I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
>> mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
>> children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
>> Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
>> the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
>>
>
>Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
>had no children.
>
>It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
>that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
>Brahms, Wagner...
>
BACH? I find that hard to believe... I heard he had twenty children
that survived, and at least a few of those must have had children of
their own.
Roland van Gaalen
Here's a story that the romantics in this forum will appreciate.
"When Mendelssohn visited Italy in 1831, he had an introduction to the
wife of the military commander at Milan, Dorothea von Ertmann, the
intimate friend of Beethoven. Her name is immortalized on the title
page of the Sonata, Op. 101. Mendelssohn was invited to her house, and
had played her own special sonata and a great deal of Beethoven
besides, when a little modest Austrian official who had been sitting
in the corner came up and said timidly, "Ach! Wollen Sie nicht etwas
vom lieben Vater spielen?" (Won't you play something of my dear
father's?)
Mendelssohn: "Who was your father?"
Austrian official: "Ach! Mozart."
"And," said Mendelssohn, "I did play Mozart for him, and for the rest
of the evening." This little touch of filial jealousy moved him
deeply.
C.V. Stanford, Unwritten Diary 1914
quoted in Words about Music, by John Amis and Michael Rose.
Roland van Gaalen - Amsterdam
Guy Beaulieu
I heard on CBC radio recently some symphonic music attributed to WA
Mozart's son but could not get the particulars. It was amazingly
interesting. Does anyone know about this? (I'll try to inquire at CBC,
Can. Broadcasting Corp.
Guy
Aloysia
David Black wrote:
>
> On 24 Nov 1996 15:33:34 GMT, st...@getnet.com (Allan F) wrote:
>
> >I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
> >mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
> Regards, David Black (moz...@labyrinth.net.au)
No, there aren't any people directly related to him today (or
yesterday for that matter). I wish there were. I'm sure whoever it
was would be pretty famous, or at least known in the world. What do you
direct in Amadeus?
Aloysia
--
" But I got one hand in my pocket,
And the other's playing the piano . . ." :-)
-
Leroy Curtis
In article <57cc7n$b...@asimov.oit.umass.edu>, Richard R Uren~a
<ur...@asimov.oit.umass.edu> writes
>juli...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>>It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
>>that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
>
>Then who fathered Emanuel, Friedrich, Christoph, Friedman, etc.?
>
a couple of months ago ;-)
Regards
--
Leroy Curtis
Roger L. Lustig
Richard R Uren~a wrote:
>
> juli...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> >It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living
> >that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
>
> Bach? Johann Sebastian Bach?
> Then who fathered Emanuel, Friedrich, Christoph, Friedman, etc.?
Someone who's dead. Like them.
Roger
Roger L. Lustig
Jonathan Addleman wrote:
>
> On Sun, 24 Nov 1996 21:13:15 -0500, "Roger L. Lustig"
> <juli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> >>
> >> I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
> >> mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
> >> Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
> >> the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
> >>
> >
> >Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
> >had no children.
> >
> >that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
> >
>
> BACH? I find that hard to believe... I heard he had twenty children
> that survived, and at least a few of those must have had children of
> their own.
OK--I typed Wagner when I meant Bruckner. It was late, I was
stupid...
As for Bach, his descendants can't be traced after about 1850.
Any news of them would be extremely welcome.
Roger
Aloysia
Leroy Curtis wrote:
> Erm...yes, the youngest, Johann Christian, celebrated his 261st birthday
> a couple of months ago ;-)
>
> Regards
> --
> Leroy Curtis
Oh, well happy belated birthday to him!
David Black
On 24 Nov 1996 15:33:34 GMT, st...@getnet.com (Allan F) wrote:
>I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
>mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
>children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
>Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
>the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
>
Mozart and Constanze had 6 children, of which two sons survived
infancy: Carl Thomas (1784-1858), and Franz Xaver, who called himself
Wolfgang (1791-1844). Carl, after a period of study with the composer
Asioli, gave up music and became a public servant. Franz Xaver
followed his father's profession, and was a child prodigy (he wrote a
piano quartet when he was 11). He studied with Hummel, Salieri and
others, and from 1807-38 was in Russia, before settling in Vienna to
teach. His compositions include 2 piano concertos, chamber music and
songs. Unfortunately, neither of Mozart's sons had any children, so
there aren't any direct descendents. The Mozart line survived through
Aloys Josef Anton Mozart, a descendent of Leopold Mozart's younger
borther Josef Ignaz. The last member of the direct Mozart line,
Caroline Jacobine, died in Augsburg in 1965. Hope this helps...
Stan Szpakowicz
Richard R Uren~a <ur...@asimov.oit.umass.edu> wrote:
>juli...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>>It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
^^^^^^
>>that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
>Bach? Johann Sebastian Bach?
>Then who fathered Emanuel, Friedrich, Christoph, Friedman, etc.?
Read again: the poster says "living" (as in "now").
(And it's Friedemann, while we are at it. :-)
--
Dr. Stan Szpakowicz, Dept. of Computer Science, Univ. of Ottawa
phone +613 562 5800 (6687) fax +613 562 5187
sz...@csi.uottawa.ca http://www.csi.uottawa.ca/~szpak/
Axel Reichert
Krehbiel, Hanns wrote:
>
> With Wagner you are certainly wrong! His descendants live among us alive and
> kicking; their name is Wagner, sometimes one is still producing grandpa's
> operas. Among them there is more or less harmony.
More less, I think! ;-)
Krehbiel, Hanns
Jonathan Addleman wrote:
> ........
>
> BACH? I find that hard to believe... I heard he had twenty children
> that survived, and at least a few of those must have had children of
> their own.
You may not believe it, but it is true. This topic has been thoroughly
researched. A single grandson, afaik his name was not Bach, was there
as guest of honour for a ceremony (in Leipzig?) when a Bach monument
was unveiled. But that was it.
Rumours come and go, that Felix Schumann, the last child of Clara Schumann,
was actually the son of Brahms, F.S. had afaik no children.
Bob Morrow
In article <329A58...@ix.netcom.com>, "Roger L. Lustig" <juli...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
|
|> As for Bach, his descendants can't be traced after about 1850.
|> Any news of them would be extremely welcome.
A former boss of mine told me hismother's maiden name as "Bach".
She had been a ballerina in London in the 20's & 30's. His claim
was that she was a descendant of J.C. Bach Any experts on J.C.
Bach who can confirm he had progeny?
I met a chap from Holland whose name was Beethoven. He claimed
to be descended from LvB's great-uncle.
What about the current Boris Tchaikovsky?
There are supposedly many Haendel's living in and around central
Germany. Could they be related?
Bob
Richard R Uren~a
>> Bach? Johann Sebastian Bach?
>> Then who fathered Emanuel, Friedrich, Christoph, Friedman, etc.?
>
Ah..., OK.
I thought that not having living descendants "that we know of"
was a hint towards a discussion of the spicier aspects of
composers' biographies.
Sorry about that.
Margaret Mikulska
Krehbiel, Hanns (KREH...@vxdesy.desy.de) wrote:
: Roger L. Lustig wrote:
: >
: > Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
: > had no children.
: Two of his sons reached a mature age. One of them had children, but that was it.
: Sorry, my sources are at home, but where is Margaret M.?
I'm here, but I'm very busy.
Besides, we had this thread not a long ago, and I wrote something about
Mozart's sons.
Neither Carl Thomas nor Franz Xaver had children. Both reached mature
age, that's true, both remained unmarried, and there are no rumors
whatsoever about any illegitimate children of either.
About the older one, Carl Thomas, we don't even know if he had any
intention to marry anybody. His life as a civil servant was amazingly
dull by our standards, and as far as we know, he wasn't even interested
in music (he actually tried to study music, but lost his interest
quickly).
The younger one, Franz Xaver, was a musician, and spent part of his life
in Vienna and part in Lemberg/Lwow. He composed some music - there is a
CD with his piano pieces, charming but banal salon music - conducted,
organized musical life, concertized as a pianist. But like his elder
brother, he didn't seem to have inclination to marry.
Mozart's sister had three children, of which the only son, Leopold Alois
Pantaleon von Berchtold zu Sonnenburg, lived 1785-1840. He might have
had descendants, but I don't have any information at hand.
-Margaret
Margaret Mikulska
Krehbiel, Hanns (KREH...@vxdesy.desy.de) wrote:
: Jonathan Addleman wrote:
: >
: > BACH? I find that hard to believe... I heard he had twenty children
: > that survived, and at least a few of those must have had children of
: > their own.
: You may not believe it, but it is true. This topic has been thoroughly
: researched. A single grandson, afaik his name was not Bach, was there
: as guest of honour for a ceremony (in Leipzig?) when a Bach monument
: was unveiled. But that was it.
Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach (1759-1845), himself a composer, although
supposedly not a great talent. He was indeed present at the unveiling
of JSBach's monument in Leipzig in 1843. He and his wife lived quietly
in Berlin, and even Mendelssohn didn't know about their existence,
although with his interest in Bach's music, one would think that he
would know, especially that the couple lived for 40 years in Berlin.
There are a few recordings of WFE Bach's music.
They had a son and two daughters; the son died in childhood, one
daughter married, but was childless. (I don't know about the other
daughter.)
-Margaret
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
: >
: > BACH? I find that hard to believe... I heard he had twenty children
: > that survived, and at least a few of those must have had children of
: > their own.
: You may not believe it, but it is true. This topic has been thoroughly
: researched. A single grandson, afaik his name was not Bach, was there
: as guest of honour for a ceremony (in Leipzig?) when a Bach monument
: was unveiled. But that was it.
His name _was_ Bach. The man was Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach, son of
Johann Christoph Friedrich. WFE Bach was a composer himself, but not very
famous (I have never heard any of his works).
Bach also had a few other grandchildren. Carl Philip Emanuel had at least
one daughter (Anna Carolina Philippina) and one son (Johann Sebastian, a
talented painter). Johann Sebastian died early, and did not have any children.
I don't know anything about ACP. One of JSB's daughters (Elisabeth Juliana
Friederica?) also had at least one son, Johann Sebastian Altnikol. There
might also have been some other grandchildren which I haven't heard about.
: Rumours come and go, that Felix Schumann, the last child of Clara Schumann,
: was actually the son of Brahms, F.S. had afaik no children.
Tord
David Black
On 25 Nov 1996 20:57:26 GMT, Guy Beaulieu <gbea...@istar.ca> wrote:
>Daniel N Leeson wrote:
>>
>> Mozart and his wife had several children, I think 5. Only two survived,
>> both boys. Neither married nor had children, at least legitimate ones.
They had 6 kids.
>> There is a rumor having to do with a woman named Hofdamel who was accused
>> by her husband of having had a child fathered by Mozart. She had the
>> child and disappeared into the east. No one knows the truth or falsity of
>> that story or what happened to Mrs. Hofdamel.
I must point out that there is absolutely _no_ evidence linking Mozart
with Magdelena Hofdemel's child. Please don't fall for the crap in
Francis Carr's odious book "Mozart and Constanze".
>> Mozart's sister married and I think had children by her husband but I
>> am not at all certain of this. I know that she married a widower who
>> had children by a previous marriage and that may be making it all mixed
>> up in my head.
Nannerl had 3 kids by a widower who already had 5. None had children
themselves. One died in infancy, one when she was 15, and the other
lived into the 19th century.
>> I know nothing about what happened with respect to Mozart's aunts
>> and uncles and their children, or even further generations back.
The Mozart line survived until 1965 with the death of Caroline
Jacobine Mozart. Most of the Mozarts of the 19th and 20th centuries
were descended from one of Leopold Mozart's brothers.
>I heard on CBC radio recently some symphonic music attributed to WA
>Mozart's son but could not get the particulars. It was amazingly
>interesting. Does anyone know about this?
There are no authenticated symphonies by F.X. Mozart. He did however
write 2 piano concertos, chamber music and songs.
av...@aol.com
Jeff Wilson
On 24 Nov 1996 15:33:34 GMT, st...@getnet.com (Allan F) wrote:
>I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
>mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
>children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
>Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
>the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
>
Haydn had no children by his horrible marriage, but he had several
affairs (since his wife and he were always on such poor terms). I
remember reading somewhere that one of his lovers had a child that was
presumed to be fathered by Haydn. Anyone know anything about this?
I've also heard that a son named Maurice of George Sand's is thought
by some to have been fathered by Chopin, though I personally very much
doubt it for reasons that have been gone into by others in this
newsgroup.
av...@aol.com
Susan M Kirchhausen
Jeff Wilson (jmwi...@hooked.net) wrote:
: On 24 Nov 1996 15:33:34 GMT, st...@getnet.com (Allan F) wrote:
:
: >I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
: >mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
: >children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
: >Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
: >the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
: >
: Haydn had no children by his horrible marriage, but he had several
: affairs (since his wife and he were always on such poor terms). I
: remember reading somewhere that one of his lovers had a child that was
: presumed to be fathered by Haydn. Anyone know anything about this?
One of Haydn's affairs was with a woman named Luigia Polzelli. She was a
mezzo-soprano who was married to Antonio Polzelli, a violinist at
Esterhazy. She had a son named Alois Anton Nicolaus who was supposedly
fathered by Haydn. (he was also a violinist at Esterhazy)
(these random assignments we get in grad school actually pay off :)
susan
:
: I've also heard that a son named Maurice of George Sand's is thought
:
:
Susan M Kirchhausen
Someone asked if Haydn had any children...
I had to do a little bit of research on this subject and found that he
supposedly had an affair with Luigia Polzelli (a mezzo-soprano and the
wife of Antonio Polzelli, a violinist at Esterhazy). She had a son Alois
Anton Nicolaus who is thought to be Haydn's.
Roger L. Lustig (juli...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: Allan F wrote:
: >
: > I just finished assistant directing a production of AMADEUS (yes, I know it's
: > mostly fiction)and several of us have been wondering what happened to Mozart's
: > children and whether or not there are any direct descendants alive today.
: > Haven't been able to find any info on the net and haven't had time to check
: > the library. Anyone know the answers to these questions? Thanks in advance.
: >
:
: Most of Mozart's children died young. His son F.X. Wolfgang
: had no children.
:
: It's actually remarkable how many composers have no living descendants
: that we know of: Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Chopin,
: Brahms, Wagner...
:
: Roger
:
janr...@aol.com
Excuse me, Roger....
You say Wagner didn't have living children?
I believe Wagner DOES have living chidren... Who is the famous ancestor of
that gentleman who runs the Bayreuth Wagner Festival every summer?
Regards,
Janice