"MODERN" Means What You Want It To Mean
Juan Jose Morales
Schonberg, calling him "that ARCHMODERNIST!" I wondered if that
announcer was aware at all of what century he was living in, for a guy
who died FIFTY-TWO years ago can no longer be regarded as modern in
anything. In fact, I strongly propose the following: that the term and
concept "modern"--in any and every incarnation--be restricted to people
who are actually alive, such as Rautavaara and the two John Williams,
and not to people such as Copland and Stravinskii, who died decades ago.
Dr.Matt
There are some people who think Monteverdi is an arch-modernist
and who long for the good old days of Palestrina. From the distance
of 52 years, Schoenberg can also quite coherently be seen as a
Romantic.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Jerry Kohl
Well, according to cultural historians, the Modern era ended in 1848, to be
supplanted by the Post-Modern era. Schoenberg hadn't even been born by
then, of course. The other end of the period in question is variously
placed in the 16th or 17th century (a very strong argument for ca. 1630 is
made by Stephen Toulmin in his 1990 book, Cosmology) but this raises a
number of interesting questions about musical modernity. For example, is
Tonality a characteristic "totalising discourse"?
--
Jerry Kohl <jerom...@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Lyle K. Neff
Scriabin, Debussy, D'Indy, etc. to be "modernists" -- and dangerous to
the future of music.
Best,
lkn
--
Lyle K. Neff -- mailto:ln...@udel.edu
http://copland.udel.edu/~lneff
Marcello Penso
Hijod...@webtv.net says...
Modern: 1900-1950s, with the real modern style being Bauhaus (1920s-
1930s)
Postmodern: 1965-now. 1965 is when Venturi, Graves, Meier and others
started resuscitating 'complexity and contradiction' in architecture
Contemporary- early 1990s-now. This may or may not include de-
constructivist works, depending on the reviewer.
I'm sure literature, sculpture, painting and so on have similar
classifications, though not necessarily the same dates.
Marcello
Dr.Matt
Of course, and in that time, they WERE! How lucky we are that the
muses took such risks... :) :) :) :)
Peter T. Daniels
Hang on -- where has Richard Meier done anything that isn't pure Modern?
Notably the Getty Museum and a county office building on Long Island
that I haven't gone looking for yet, even though Paul Goldberger raved
about it.
Don't leave Stanley Tigerman off your Postmodern list; he and Helmut
Jahn have done a great deal to remake the look of Chicago over the past
generation.
What label does Libeskind (and the Freedom Tower) get? --They're about
to unveil the compromise that he and SOM have come up with for the WTC
site.
--
Peter T. Daniels gram...@att.net
Jerry Kohl
> Some commentators ca. 1900 considered composers such as R. Strauss,
> Scriabin, Debussy, D'Indy, etc. to be "modernists" -- and dangerous to
> the future of music.
Not to mention what Artusi had to say about that Modernist Monteverdi.
Come to that, Jacobus of Liège was rather hard on the Moderns of his day,
as well, though he was diplomatic enough not to name names.
Jerry Kohl
> In article <28007-3FA...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> Hijod...@webtv.net says...
> > Earlier this year an announcer of Tampa's WUSF-FM spoke scathingly of
> > Schonberg, calling him "that ARCHMODERNIST!" I wondered if that
> > announcer was aware at all of what century he was living in, for a guy
> > who died FIFTY-TWO years ago can no longer be regarded as modern in
> > anything. In fact, I strongly propose the following: that the term and
> > concept "modern"--in any and every incarnation--be restricted to people
> > who are actually alive, such as Rautavaara and the two John Williams,
> > and not to people such as Copland and Stravinskii, who died decades ago.
> >
> >
> If architectural classifications are anything to go by:
>
> Modern: 1900-1950s, with the real modern style being Bauhaus (1920s-
> 1930s)
> Postmodern: 1965-now. 1965 is when Venturi, Graves, Meier and others
> started resuscitating 'complexity and contradiction' in architecture
Except that this terminology is retrospective architecture criticism from the
late 1970s. Up to then, Bauhaus et al. was "International Style". Trouble
was, "Post-International" just wasn't very catchy.
> Contemporary- early 1990s-now. This may or may not include de-
> constructivist works, depending on the reviewer.
>
> I'm sure literature, sculpture, painting and so on have similar
> classifications, though not necessarily the same dates.
As I've already pointed out once on this thread, the corrupt usage of
architectural history has long since been rectified by Cultural Historians
who, more or less in agreement with traditional Political Historians, place
the Modern Era as beginning around 1500-1600 and ending with a bang in 1848
with the Communist Manifesto.
Jerry Kohl
FWIW, around 1990 many architecture critics decided that Postmodernism had run
its course(s), and some of these began referring to those architects who were
turning their backs on that trend as Post-Postmodernists.
However, so far as music is concerned, here is a quotation from the glossary of
an actual book (so you know it must be true), Otto Karolyi's Modern British
Music: The Second British Renaissance--From Elgar to P. Maxwell Davies
(Cranbury NJ, London, Mississauga: Associated University Presses, 1994, p.
135): "<b>Modern</b> is a general reference to the twentieth century.
<i>Modernism</i> however, is more specific in that it emphasises developments,
especially in the arts, between 1890 and 1930. The term postmodernism, now also
in common parlance, refers to the period after 1930."
So there.
Peter T. Daniels
So ten years ago.
I say Postmodernism died on 9/11.
Peter T. Daniels
Not within history of architecture, though, where Postmodern includes
the two Chicagoans I named, Philip Johnson for a while (he's gone on to
something interesting and idiosyncratic now), and of course [ObMus]
Frank Gehry and that sneezy organ. (Did they say when it's supposed to
be finished?)
Jerry Kohl
I'm afraid that may have been it's rebirth. Reread the late Edward Said's many
essays, with particular emphasis on the concept of "resistance".
Jerry Kohl
Yes within the history of architecture--and *only* within the history of
architecture. Philip Johnson in particular becomes a Post-Postmodern architect ca.
1990. The problem is only in deciding how to describe the difference between the
pluralistic (or "eclectic") style common in the period 1978-1990, and that
different but equally pluralistic style which succeeded it.
Nightingale
Lyle K. Neff wrote:
> Some commentators ca. 1900 considered composers such as R. Strauss,
> Scriabin, Debussy, D'Indy, etc. to be "modernists" -- and dangerous to
> the future of music.
>
> Best,
>
> lkn
Dangerous to their vision of the future perhaps. My piano teacher seemed
to think that everything past about Chopin was some kind of decline into chaos.
I only ever did enough modern music to pass my exams.
--
Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
To all musicians, appear and inspire:
Translated Daughter, come down and startle
Composing mortals with immortal fire.
Dr.Matt
Well, gee! Welcome aboard! There's Brahms and Debussy and Ravel and Stravinsky
and ... tons of piano music for you to catch up on. Crumb is standard repertoire
already...
Peter T. Daniels
Thanks, I'll pass.
Nightingale
> In article <3FA5BEF5...@music.ca>, Nightingale <si...@music.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>>Lyle K. Neff wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Some commentators ca. 1900 considered composers such as R. Strauss,
>>>Scriabin, Debussy, D'Indy, etc. to be "modernists" -- and dangerous to
>>>the future of music.
>>>
>>>Best,
>>>
>>>lkn
>>
>>
>>Dangerous to their vision of the future perhaps. My piano teacher seemed
>>
>>to think that everything past about Chopin was some kind of decline into chaos.
>>
>>I only ever did enough modern music to pass my exams.
>>
>>--
>>Blessed Cecilia, appear in visions
>>To all musicians, appear and inspire:
>>Translated Daughter, come down and startle
>>Composing mortals with immortal fire.
>
>
> Well, gee! Welcome aboard! There's Brahms and Debussy and Ravel and Stravinsky
> and ... tons of piano music for you to catch up on. Crumb is standard repertoire
> already...
>
Lots of everything to catch up on. I was such an idiot when I was
younger, took a lot of wrong turns & only starting on music education
now - I hope I live to be very old, because there is so much still that
I want to learn and do!
Jerry Kohl
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
> >
> > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
> > > I say Postmodernism died on 9/11.
> >
> > I'm afraid that may have been it's rebirth. Reread the late Edward Said's many
> > essays, with particular emphasis on the concept of "resistance".
>
> Thanks, I'll pass.
Well then, you would do well not to get involved in discussions of what is and is
not "postmodern(ism)".
Peter T. Daniels
>
> "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
> > Jerry Kohl wrote:
> > >
> > > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
> >
> > > > I say Postmodernism died on 9/11.
> > >
> > > I'm afraid that may have been it's rebirth. Reread the late Edward Said's many
> > > essays, with particular emphasis on the concept of "resistance".
> >
> > Thanks, I'll pass.
>
> Well then, you would do well not to get involved in discussions of what is and is
> not "postmodern(ism)".
Said is hardly a significant representative of the "postmodernism"
debate! A precis of my take on his "Orientalism" will be published in
the Blackwell Companion to the Ancient Near East next year some time,
and upon glancing through his collection of essays on music and his
dialog with Barenboim, I didn't see that he had anything interesting to
say in our area, either.
Jerry Kohl
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
> >
> > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
> >
> > > Jerry Kohl wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I say Postmodernism died on 9/11.
> > > >
> > > > I'm afraid that may have been it's rebirth. Reread the late Edward Said's many
> > > > essays, with particular emphasis on the concept of "resistance".
> > >
> > > Thanks, I'll pass.
> >
> > Well then, you would do well not to get involved in discussions of what is and is
> > not "postmodern(ism)".
>
> Said is hardly a significant representative of the "postmodernism"
> debate!
I think you will find you are badly mistaken. He is most often cited in the political
arena, and on questions of culture (often in the same breath as Fredric Jameson), but
was also a significant voice in literary criticism.
> A precis of my take on his "Orientalism" will be published in
> the Blackwell Companion to the Ancient Near East next year some time,
> and upon glancing through his collection of essays on music and his
> dialog with Barenboim, I didn't see that he had anything interesting to
> say in our area, either.
That's as may be, but it doesn't stop others from referring to him frequently when
discussing issues of postmodernity, and especially in connection with music, due to
that collection of essays (I presume you are referring to Musical Elaborations (1991)).
Michael Haslam
> Jerry Kohl wrote:
> >
> > "Peter T. Daniels" wrote:
>
> > > I say Postmodernism died on 9/11.
> >
> > I'm afraid that may have been it's rebirth. Reread the late Edward
> > Said's many essays, with particular emphasis on the concept of
> > "resistance".
>
> Thanks, I'll pass.
Are we to infer that you've read the essays a first time, Peter?
MJHaslam
Michael Haslam
> the two Chicagoans I named, Philip Johnson for a while (he's gone on to
> something interesting and idiosyncratic now), and of course [ObMus]
> Frank Gehry and that sneezy
Well, it is the Disney Hall! Imagine if they'd based the organ on the
one in Snow White!
> organ. (Did they say when it's supposed to
> be finished?)
I've not seen a date. Even when there isn't a funding problem it's
always better for most of the installation of the organ to happen after
the rest of the building is finished.
MJHaslam
Peter T. Daniels
Was it that long ago?
I guess I just missed any postmodern stuff about music.
Peter T. Daniels
>
> Peter T. Daniels <gram...@att.net> wrote:
> >
> > Not within history of architecture, though, where Postmodern includes
> > the two Chicagoans I named, Philip Johnson for a while (he's gone on to
> > something interesting and idiosyncratic now), and of course [ObMus]
> > Frank Gehry and that sneezy
>
> Well, it is the Disney Hall! Imagine if they'd based the organ on the
> one in Snow White!
Good one!
> > organ. (Did they say when it's supposed to
> > be finished?)
>
> I've not seen a date. Even when there isn't a funding problem it's
> always better for most of the installation of the organ to happen after
> the rest of the building is finished.
Hmm, was that published stoplist more of a wishlist, then?
Jerry Kohl
It can be exceedingly tedious, especially as the musicology crowd didn't jump on the
bandwagon until it had pretty much run out of gas. Add to this the fact that musicians have
this kneejerk assumption (which is, after all, the subject of this thread) that what they
are accustomed to labelling Modern is what everybody in other fields calls Modern. I
remember what a shock it was my first day in Modern Art History class to discover we were
going to start with Watteau, and by the end of the first semester would not yet have reached
the Impressionists. I'm not quite sure now why I was so surprised, though, since I had
already had the Modern History survey course that started with ca. 1450!
Peter T. Daniels
Certainly nothing specific to postmodern musicology about that.
> especially as the musicology crowd didn't jump on the
> bandwagon until it had pretty much run out of gas. Add to this the fact that musicians have
> this kneejerk assumption (which is, after all, the subject of this thread) that what they
> are accustomed to labelling Modern is what everybody in other fields calls Modern. I
> remember what a shock it was my first day in Modern Art History class to discover we were
> going to start with Watteau, and by the end of the first semester would not yet have reached
> the Impressionists. I'm not quite sure now why I was so surprised, though, since I had
> already had the Modern History survey course that started with ca. 1450!
Well, sure, everyone _knows_ when Modern History begins!
Dr.Matt
>> already had the Modern History survey course that started with ca. 1450!
>
>Well, sure, everyone _knows_ when Modern History begins!
10:10 am. The schedule book says 10:am but the first ten minutes
are allocated for getting there from the previous class.
Dana Hill
away from that area I had become extremely disenchanted with them. They
seem to have adopted the style of the worst kind of classical radio, i.e.,
little/no vocal music except for Saturday (on the Met broadcasts, which
aren't for the whole year), no organ or harpsichord music, nothing too
challenging. On one of my last visits to the area I was listening, and they
played Handel's Water Music in an arrangement for banjo. It was a fun
novelty, but, for the most part, I don't like the direction they have taken.
Dana Hill
Gainesville, Florida
http://www.danajohnhill.com
"Juan Jose Morales" <Hijod...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28007-3FA...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Michael Haslam
I'm sure it's real. There might be some small changes along the way but
I would imagine it's all designed and the chests, pipes and action are
being made as we speak. Can you imagine the planning that goes into a
tracker organ of this size? Thank goodness for CAD.
MJHaslam
Dr.Matt
Dana Hill <johns...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Was WUSF actually playing any of Schoenberg's music? By the time I moved
>away from that area I had become extremely disenchanted with them. They
>seem to have adopted the style of the worst kind of classical radio, i.e.,
>little/no vocal music except for Saturday (on the Met broadcasts, which
>aren't for the whole year), no organ or harpsichord music, nothing too
>challenging. On one of my last visits to the area I was listening, and they
>played Handel's Water Music in an arrangement for banjo. It was a fun
>novelty, but, for the most part, I don't like the direction they have taken.
>
>Dana Hill
>Gainesville, Florida
>http://www.danajohnhill.com
>
Yet another reason why I'm glad to get Tom Allen on CBC 2.
Peter T. Daniels
Tracker?????
Yes, I didn't study every page ... that makes the odd angles even more
weird; how do they expect all the trackers and stickers not to get
warped and sticky and all that?
And there's a limit on how many stops you can handle purely with the
mechanical effort of the fingers.
And with an instrument that big, you want electronic (the latest version
of electro-mechanical, no?) combinations and couplers and all that!
Peter T. Daniels
>
> In article <3FA7AC...@att.net>, Peter T. Daniels <gram...@att.net> wrote:
> >> already had the Modern History survey course that started with ca. 1450!
> >
> >Well, sure, everyone _knows_ when Modern History begins!
>
> 10:10 am. The schedule book says 10:am but the first ten minutes
> are allocated for getting there from the previous class.
At Cornell 50-minute classes start at 8, 9:05, 10:10, 11:15, etc.
Marcello Penso
> Marcello Penso wrote:
> >
> > In article <28007-3FA...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> > Hijod...@webtv.net says...
> > > Schonberg, calling him "that ARCHMODERNIST!" I wondered if that
> > > announcer was aware at all of what century he was living in, for a guy
> > > who died FIFTY-TWO years ago can no longer be regarded as modern in
> > > anything. In fact, I strongly propose the following: that the term and
> > > concept "modern"--in any and every incarnation--be restricted to people
> > > who are actually alive, such as Rautavaara and the two John Williams,
> > > and not to people such as Copland and Stravinskii, who died decades ago.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Modern: 1900-1950s, with the real modern style being Bauhaus (1920s-
> > 1930s)
> >
> > Postmodern: 1965-now. 1965 is when Venturi, Graves, Meier and others
> > started resuscitating 'complexity and contradiction' in architecture
> >
> > constructivist works, depending on the reviewer.
> >
> > I'm sure literature, sculpture, painting and so on have similar
> > classifications, though not necessarily the same dates.
>
His use of the 'piano curve', and the white panels as an independant
skin, to some degree. There may be other elements. I'm not too familiar
with his work, but know he was part of the 'New York Five' that came out
in '65 or thereabouts, responding affirmatively to Venturi's essay.
Meier may have had early works that where post-modern in sense but not
so much in detail or material. Not sure where he considers himself.
> Notably the Getty Museum and a county office building on Long Island
> that I haven't gone looking for yet, even though Paul Goldberger raved
> about it.
>
> Don't leave Stanley Tigerman off your Postmodern list; he and Helmut
> Jahn have done a great deal to remake the look of Chicago over the past
> generation.
Yes, Gwathmey Seigel also was part of the 'Five', I believe.
>
> What label does Libeskind (and the Freedom Tower) get? --They're about
> to unveil the compromise that he and SOM have come up with for the WTC
> site.
>
Liebeskind's Jewish museum in Berlin (I think it's there) is classic
deconstructivist. From the competition sketches I saw, I'd say his
towers fall into that same category, somewhat.
Marcello
Marcello Penso
> Marcello Penso wrote:
>
> > In article <28007-3FA...@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net>,
> > Hijod...@webtv.net says...
> > > Earlier this year an announcer of Tampa's WUSF-FM spoke scathingly of
> > > Schonberg, calling him "that ARCHMODERNIST!" I wondered if that
> > > announcer was aware at all of what century he was living in, for a guy
> > > who died FIFTY-TWO years ago can no longer be regarded as modern in
> > > anything. In fact, I strongly propose the following: that the term and
> > > concept "modern"--in any and every incarnation--be restricted to people
> > > who are actually alive, such as Rautavaara and the two John Williams,
> > > and not to people such as Copland and Stravinskii, who died decades ago.
> > >
> > >
> > If architectural classifications are anything to go by:
> >
> > Modern: 1900-1950s, with the real modern style being Bauhaus (1920s-
> > 1930s)
>
> > Postmodern: 1965-now. 1965 is when Venturi, Graves, Meier and others
> > started resuscitating 'complexity and contradiction' in architecture
>
> late 1970s. Up to then, Bauhaus et al. was "International Style". Trouble
> was, "Post-International" just wasn't very catchy.
Well, Philip Johnson made it out that way (Bauhaus=International Style),
but since the International Style, in its 50s and 60s applications,
lacked the social ideas at the core of the Bauhaus, it's best, I think,
to keep them distinct. I agree that Post-Modernism is 70s name- I think
by Charles Jencks, but I'm not sure if the NY Five actually used that
term (post-modern) for themselves or not.
>
> > Contemporary- early 1990s-now. This may or may not include de-
> > constructivist works, depending on the reviewer.
> >
> > I'm sure literature, sculpture, painting and so on have similar
> > classifications, though not necessarily the same dates.
>
> As I've already pointed out once on this thread, the corrupt usage of
> architectural history has long since been rectified by Cultural Historians
> who, more or less in agreement with traditional Political Historians, place
> the Modern Era as beginning around 1500-1600 and ending with a bang in 1848
> with the Communist Manifesto.
>
You sure it's a 'rectification'? I'm just wondering how many artists,
composers, writers, etc. of the '10s to '50s referred to themselves as
'modernists'.
Marcello
Michael Haslam
Why? Stop action may be mechanical, electric or both; combination
systems are possible with either of the latter two. Key action may be
mechanical but with Barker lever or electrical assists to the larger
divisions and the couplers. A recent trend in large concert hall organs
is to have an integral console with tracker action and a moveable one
with electric action. The two consoles may, I think, even be used at the
same time.
I might be wrong about the Disney organ being tracker. I can't find a
specific reference. However the ethos of the company and the
specification of their Moscow organ would imply that it is certainly
probable:
http://www.gg-organs.com/eng/projects/moscow_stoplist.htm
MJHaslam
Dr.Matt
How about those who would have, if posed the question?
At a first approximation: Debussy, yes; Schoenberg, no; Stravinsky, shrug.
Antheil, yes. Bartok, no. Strauss, yes. Dallapiccola, no. Boulez, yes.
Honneger, definitely. Satie, yes. Ravel, no. Webern, no. Ruggles, yes.
Cage, shrug.
Jerry Kohl
> In article <3FA53B...@att.net>, gram...@att.net says...
> > What label does Libeskind (and the Freedom Tower) get? --They're about
> > to unveil the compromise that he and SOM have come up with for the WTC
> > site.
> >
>
> Liebeskind's Jewish museum in Berlin (I think it's there) is classic
> deconstructivist. From the competition sketches I saw, I'd say his
> towers fall into that same category, somewhat.
Perhaps you would like to rephrase that ...
Jerry Kohl
Jencks is usually credited with the term, yes, though I believe it had already
been used (though not in reference to architecture) as early as the mid-1950s. It
didn't catch on until Jencks used it, however. And of course it is the rare
exception to find an architect (or a musician, painter, poet, playright, film
director, etc.) who welcomes being pigeon-holed by some goldurned critic!
>
>
> >
> > > Contemporary- early 1990s-now. This may or may not include de-
> > > constructivist works, depending on the reviewer.
> > >
> > > I'm sure literature, sculpture, painting and so on have similar
> > > classifications, though not necessarily the same dates.
> >
> > As I've already pointed out once on this thread, the corrupt usage of
> > architectural history has long since been rectified by Cultural Historians
> > who, more or less in agreement with traditional Political Historians, place
> > the Modern Era as beginning around 1500-1600 and ending with a bang in 1848
> > with the Communist Manifesto.
> >
>
> You sure it's a 'rectification'? I'm just wondering how many artists,
> composers, writers, etc. of the '10s to '50s referred to themselves as
> 'modernists'.
Very few, I should imagine, unless they were given an A/B choice of being either a
"modernist" or a "traditionalist". However, it's not so much a question of
modern*ism* or postmodern*ism* (which is an attitude of an individual or closely
allied group of individuals), but rather one of "modernity" and "postmodernity",
which refers to the entire complex of societal attitudes and institutions
(including artistic ones, like architecture and music).
Nightingale
Dr.Matt wrote:
>
> Yet another reason why I'm glad to get Tom Allen on CBC 2.
>
I always end up missing some or all of Tom Allen because I am either at
school or on my way to work. I like most of the shows except sometime
the afternoon. They were playing a really interesting piece while I was
at work tonight, but I managed to miss the announcement what is was :-(
My second assignment for Musics & Culturs is to pick a radio station to
do a report on - I think CBC 2 is going to be the one I chose.
Peter T. Daniels
I've got one word for you, Benjamin. Corbusier.
> with his work, but know he was part of the 'New York Five' that came out
> in '65 or thereabouts, responding affirmatively to Venturi's essay.
> Meier may have had early works that where post-modern in sense but not
> so much in detail or material. Not sure where he considers himself.
The New Yorker (pre-Tina) had a long piece (pre-Goldberger) on the Getty
in which he came as close as he ever has done to enunciating a
"philosophy." He considers himself a pure Modernist, perhaps the last of
the breed.
> > Notably the Getty Museum and a county office building on Long Island
> > that I haven't gone looking for yet, even though Paul Goldberger raved
> > about it.
> >
> > Don't leave Stanley Tigerman off your Postmodern list; he and Helmut
> > Jahn have done a great deal to remake the look of Chicago over the past
> > generation.
>
> Yes, Gwathmey Seigel also was part of the 'Five', I believe.
> >
> > What label does Libeskind (and the Freedom Tower) get? --They're about
> > to unveil the compromise that he and SOM have come up with for the WTC
> > site.
> >
>
> Liebeskind's Jewish museum in Berlin (I think it's there) is classic
> deconstructivist. From the competition sketches I saw, I'd say his
> towers fall into that same category, somewhat.
Marcello Penso
While I know Meier looks up to Corb, Corb wasn't a stylist. Meier's
repeated use of curves and white metal panel skin shows a greater
concern for styling of form, while the modernist/rationalists were much
more strict about form expression. Also Meier's skin (the paneling in
particular) tends to be more about creating complex visuals rather than
being the staid type of skin Corb would have used (like in his Villa
Savoye.) Even Aalto, probably the most expressive of the moderns, used
curves in response to natural elements, or for acoustical modeling.
Meier's High Museum, as a counterexample, is much more about style,
(about using the modernist aesthetic as a style) and in this sense, he's
more postmodern then he'd like to admit.
Granted, the styling is less evident in buildings where the program is
more restricted. (There's a medical building Meier did in Germany which,
by itself is quite 'modern'). But Corb would NEVER have designed an
Atheneum (see Meier's website). Even Corb's Ronchamp is much more
restricted in form and style than Meier's works.
>
> > with his work, but know he was part of the 'New York Five' that came out
> > in '65 or thereabouts, responding affirmatively to Venturi's essay.
> > Meier may have had early works that where post-modern in sense but not
> > so much in detail or material. Not sure where he considers himself.
>
> The New Yorker (pre-Tina) had a long piece (pre-Goldberger) on the Getty
> in which he came as close as he ever has done to enunciating a
> "philosophy." He considers himself a pure Modernist, perhaps the last of
> the breed.
I might have guessed. Reima Pietila said the same too, but Pietila, as a
counterexample, was more modern in his sensibilities.
Marcello