Music for Princess Diana's funeral . . . and for Ravel's "princess"
Kathryn S. Long
I haven't had the chance to watch the entire funeral service but from
what little I heard of the music, it was lovely. I'd like to raise
another question: All this hype about her the princess' death has made
me think about another piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
was it composed specifically for a real princess)? I think it's one of
the most tender and melancholy pieces of music I've ever heard (if it's
performed properly, without too much sentimentality). This music has
been churning in my brain for the past week, ever since I heard of
Diana's death.
Kathryn Long (:
Phil Cope
Kathryn S. Long wrote:
[snip]
> piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
> defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
> tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
> was it composed specifically for a real princess)?
Ravel "liked the sound of the words" (in the original French
presumably!). It was not composed with anyone specific in mind.
I've always assumed that infanta didn't quite translate to princess
but to "young girl princess" or something like that. Anyone confirm ?
> Kathryn Long (:
Phil Cope
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All opinions expressed in this message are purely personal and do not
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Al Gerheim
Phil Cope wrote:
>
> Kathryn S. Long wrote:
> [snip]
> > piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
> > defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
> > tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
> > was it composed specifically for a real princess)?
>
> Ravel "liked the sound of the words" (in the original French
> presumably!). It was not composed with anyone specific in mind.
>
> I've always assumed that infanta didn't quite translate to princess
> but to "young girl princess" or something like that. Anyone confirm ?
>
I've been told that it translates to something like, "Young girl
_from_the_past_". In mood, it is more sentimental than tragic or
solemn. Outside of the title, I don't think it would have been fitting.
From the posts, I can't tell if it was performed or not.
--
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(O-O)
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Steve Forrest
In article <34153A...@sonalysts.com>,
Al Gerheim <ger...@sonalysts.com> wrote:
>Phil Cope wrote:
>>
>> Kathryn S. Long wrote:
>> [snip]
>> > piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
>> > defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
>> > tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
>> > was it composed specifically for a real princess)?
>>
>> Ravel "liked the sound of the words" (in the original French
>> presumably!). It was not composed with anyone specific in mind.
>>
>> I've always assumed that infanta didn't quite translate to princess
>> but to "young girl princess" or something like that. Anyone confirm ?
>>
>
>I've been told that it translates to something like, "Young girl
>_from_the_past_". In mood, it is more sentimental than tragic or solemn.
'Infanta' in Spanish and Portuguese denotes daughter of the
king and queen. I don't know if the term refers to a daughter of a
particular age. 'Infante' is the French form of the word.
Ravel uses the word 'defunte' instead of 'morte' for "dead".
This is probably like, in English, using 'deceased' instead of 'dead'.
(French experts, please correct me if I'm wrong!)
-Steve
Deryk Barker
Steve Forrest (sfor...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu) wrote:
: In article <34153A...@sonalysts.com>,
My understanding too was that Ravel chose the title for its sound. So
translating it - especially into what Stephen Potter would doubtless
call the 'plonking' "Pavane for a Dead Princess" - rather misses the
point.
--
|Deryk Barker, Computer Science Dept. | Across the pale parabola of Joy |
|Camosun College, Victoria, BC, Canada | |
|email: dba...@camosun.bc.ca | Ralston McTodd |
|phone: +1 250 370 4452 | (Songs of Squalor). |
Matt Faunce
> I haven't had the chance to watch the entire funeral service but from
> what little I heard of the music, it was lovely. I'd like to raise
> another question: All this hype about her the princess' death has made
> me think about another piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
> defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
> tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
> was it composed specifically for a real princess)? I think it's one of
> the most tender and melancholy pieces of music I've ever heard (if it's
> performed properly, without too much sentimentality). This music has
> been churning in my brain for the past week, ever since I heard of
> Diana's death.
>
> Kathryn Long (:
From the liner notes to the Pavane and other works performed by
L'Orchestra Symphonique de Montreal w/ Charles Dutoit (1984 Decca.
London):
"... Pavane pour une infante defunte - a title chosen,
according to Ravel himself, purely for its euphonious qualities.
...the Pavane ... is an early piece, written, as a solo piano work,
in 1899. The orchestral version, replete with Ravel's mature
mastery of sound-colours, dates from some eleven years later."
I agree with you on the 'without too much sentimentality' idea. I would
think the fact that it's a pavane - traditionally a stately, majestic
dance - should tell the performer to show restraint of any fanciful
tendencies. In fact, despite Ravel's statement on the title, performing it
with respect and reverence, as if it were for a princess' funeral, would
be perfect. Although I wouldn't cling to tightly to that association.
-Matt Faunce
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
"Sight Reading for Guitar" by Matt Faunce: Thorough
coverage of every position in every major key. Email
big...@infomagic.com for info.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
A de Muynck / Joyce Maier
Steve Forrest <sfor...@ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in article
<5v4leu$lsl$1...@dismay.ucs.indiana.edu>..
> 'Infanta' in Spanish and Portuguese denotes daughter of the
> king and queen. I don't know if the term refers to a daughter
of a
> particular age. 'Infante' is the French form of the word.
> Ravel uses the word 'defunte' instead of 'morte' for "dead".
> This is probably like, in English, using 'deceased' instead of
'dead'.
> (French experts, please correct me if I'm wrong!)
As far as I know the word "infanta" or "infante" has nothing to do
with the age of the daughter, (or daughter-in-law), just with the
fact that she was not (yet) the queen. If this is correct Diana
was an infanta indeed.
Regards,
Joyce Maier (ad...@pi.net).
Stephen C. Byrns
> ...
> All this hype about her the princess' death has made
> me think about another piece by Ravel, called "Pavane pour une infante
> defunte" ("Pavane for a Dead Princess"). Can any music history buffs
> tell me the significance of this piece (i.e. when was it written, and
> was it composed specifically for a real princess)? I think it's one of
> the most tender and melancholy pieces of music I've ever heard (if it's
> performed properly, without too much sentimentality). ...
>
> Kathryn Long (:
Ravel's Pavane pour une Infante defunte for piano was finished by
1899. It was published in 1900 (Paris: Demets) and premiered in
1902 by the Spanish pianist Ricardo Vines. As it was Ravel's second
or third publication the original publisher never bothered to obtain
an American copyright so the edition was many times pirated in
America. Ravel orchestrated it around 1909-10 for the English
conductor Henry J. Wood who premiered that version in England.
The work was Ravel's earliest popular success, so much so that
Ravel tried to later distance himself from it by criticizing it
in a published article (1912). Ravel himself made a piano roll
of the work around 1922 which has appeared on disc a few times.
And you're right about the sentimentalizing which is frequently
applied to this piece. When Ravel was asked to listen to an
informal recital of young performers (ca 1930) at which one played
the Pavane his comment was (roughly translated): "please remember
it's the Princess who's deceased, not the Pavane!"
Curiously enough, the Pavane WAS written for a princess, although
a very living one. A young American, Winnaretta Singer (1865-1941),
fabulously wealthy (she inherited the Singer Sewing Machine fortune),
married the Prince Edmond de Polignac of Paris who had the decency
to die not long thereafter (it was a marriage of convienience).
Winnaretta became the Princesse Edmond de Polignac and from the
1890's to the 1920's maintained a fabulous artistic salon in Paris
attended by all the greatest names in the arts. She occasionally
commissioned composers (like Stravinsky, Falla, Poulenc). Ravel's
Pavane was one of her earliest commissions (it's dedicated to her).
Unfortunately, no record of her response to receiving a Pavane for
a DEAD Princess! A dead Prince, yes, but Winnaretta was very much
alive. At any rate Ravel continued to frequent her salon, so I
guess there were no hard feelings.
Sorry, us history buffs are long-winded.
Regards,
Stephen
T. J. Wood
Steve Forrest wrote:
>
> 'Infanta' in Spanish and Portuguese denotes daughter of the
> king and queen. I don't know if the term refers to a daughter of a
> particular age. 'Infante' is the French form of the word.
> Ravel uses the word 'defunte' instead of 'morte' for "dead".
> This is probably like, in English, using 'deceased' instead of 'dead'.
> (French experts, please correct me if I'm wrong!)
How about: "A Peacock-Dance for a Deceased Iberian Royal Princess"?
Somehow I think this etymologically-correct translation isn't going to
catch on....
--
------------------------------------------------------
Thomas Wood
University of Illinois at Springfield
wo...@uis.edu
------------------------------------------------------
Carl Tait
In article <5v6ai2$5...@winter.news.erols.com>,
Stephen C. Byrns <"sby...@mail.erols.com"@erols.com> wrote:
>
>Curiously enough, the Pavane WAS written for a princess, although
>a very living one. A young American, Winnaretta Singer (1865-1941),
>fabulously wealthy (she inherited the Singer Sewing Machine fortune)
Interesting; thanks for the details. Another strange musical
tie-in with Singer sewing machines: the company's co-founder,
Edward Clark, was the builder of the Dakota Apartments, home to
many of New York's musical luminaries over the years. Leonard
Bernstein and John Lennon were two of the best-known residents;
the Steinways and Gustav Schirmer were among the building's original
tenants in the 1880s. (Theodor Steinway frequently complained about
the noise of his neighbors' piano playing.)
The Schirmers gave a dinner party in Tchaikovsky's honor when
he came to New York. Tschaikovsky did not understand English well
enough to follow what was going on: he mistakenly believed that
the Dakota was Schirmer's private mansion on Central Park West.
In his diary, he wrote, "No wonder we composers are so poor.
The American publisher, Mr. Schirmer, is rich beyond dreams.
He lives in a palace bigger than the Czar's! In front of it
is his own private park!"
(Source: _Life at the Dakota_ by Stephen Birmingham, Syracuse Univ. Press)
--
Carl Tait IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
cdt...@us.ibm.com Yorktown Heights, NY 10598