Eric Carmen's "All By MySelf" and Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No 2

John Doe

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Nov 1, 2011, 3:09:20 PM11/1/11

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I vaguely recalled that was Barry Manilow singing "All by myself",
but obviously it was some guy named Eric Carmen.

Some of the music was copied from Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No
2 Mvt II?

Thanks.

Steven Bornfeld

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Nov 2, 2011, 6:41:15 PM11/2/11

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Yes. Unfortunately for Eric, he didn't have Manilow's staying power.
Unfortunately for us, Barry did. ;-)

Steve

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718-258-5001

anon

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Nov 3, 2011, 4:44:43 AM11/3/11

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Steven Bornfeld <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:
> On 11/1/2011 3:09 PM, John Doe wrote:
>> I vaguely recalled that was Barry Manilow singing "All by myself",
>> but obviously it was some guy named Eric Carmen.
>>
>> Some of the music was copied from Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No
>> 2 Mvt II?
>>
>> Thanks.
>
>
> Yes. Unfortunately for Eric, he didn't have Manilow's staying power.
> Unfortunately for us, Barry did. ;-)
>
> Steve

Even by schlock standards, I must say Manilow was as soul-less and
uninspired as they come. Every song seemingly arranged the same way,
sung the same way. Even when doing a cover, he truly knew how to strip a
good song of its artistic qualities.

Compare, for example, his version of "It Never Rains In Southern
California" with the original:

Manilow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbkoohvd3cw
Original: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zESYDjWrpbA

At least Eric Carmen appreciated classical music, and could even rock
out once in a while.

But yes, Carmen wrote and performed the original, even though IMO he
left out the 2nd movement's best part, i.e. the flute intro.

Steven Bornfeld

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Nov 3, 2011, 12:04:35 PM11/3/11

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I will admit to having purchased The Raspberries first album when it
came out.
I was wrong to imply he was anything like a one-hit wonder, as he's
apparently (based on his Wikipedia entry) been working more or less
steadily except for a few years in the early 1980s.
As far as Carmen and Rachmaninoff, the entry states:

His first two solo singles were chart hits in 1976. Both were built
around themes by Sergei Rachmaninoff. The first of these singles, "All
By Myself" – an adaptation of a theme from Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto
No. 2 – hit #2 in the United States, and #12 in the United Kingdom where
it was his only charting hit. It sold over one million copies, and was
awarded a gold disc by the R.I.A.A. in April 1976.[3] The follow-up
single, "Never Gonna Fall in Love Again" – heavily inspired by the main
theme of the slow movement of Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 – reached
#11 on the Billboard Hot 100, and hit #1 on the US Adult Contemporary
Chart, as well as #1 on the Cash Box chart.

In any case, a talented guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Carmen

John Doe

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Nov 3, 2011, 4:11:42 PM11/3/11

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anon <anon anon.invalid> wrote:

> Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldmung dentaltwins.com> wrote:

>> John Doe wrote:

>>> Some of the music was copied from Rachmaninoff's Piano
>>> Concerto No 2 Mvt II?

>> Yes.

Thanks for the confirmation.

> Even by schlock standards, I must say Manilow was as soul-less
> and uninspired as they come. Every song seemingly arranged the
> same way, sung the same way. Even when doing a cover, he truly
> knew how to strip a good song of its artistic qualities.

Right. Now get over it.

> But yes, Carmen wrote and performed the original, even though
> IMO he left out the 2nd movement's best part, i.e. the flute
> intro.

Sounds like you're trying to attribute Rachmaninoff's work to him.

I don't know why anyone seriously interested in music would be so
adoring of a musician who copies someone else's musical work,
especially when it's practically has only decent song. Yeah, it's
a good song, but the music isn't even original.
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> From: anon <anon anon.invalid>
> Subject: Re: Eric Carmen's "All By MySelf" and Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto No 2
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anon

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Nov 4, 2011, 3:35:08 AM11/4/11

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John Doe <jd...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

>> Even by schlock standards, I must say Manilow was as soul-less
>> and uninspired as they come. Every song seemingly arranged the
>> same way, sung the same way. Even when doing a cover, he truly
>> knew how to strip a good song of its artistic qualities.
>
> Right. Now get over it.

I write the posts (wait for it...) that make a young girl cry.

> Sounds like you're trying to attribute Rachmaninoff's work to him.
>
> I don't know why anyone seriously interested in music would be so
> adoring of a musician who copies someone else's musical work,
> especially when it's practically has only decent song. Yeah, it's
> a good song, but the music isn't even original.

Actually, only the verse section was based on Rachmaninoff, and even
then, the melody obviously underwent some tweaking. Carmen deserves some
credit for transforming a quiet romantic piano piece into a rather
grandiose yet compelling power ballad.

anon

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Nov 4, 2011, 3:43:14 AM11/4/11

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Steven Bornfeld <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote:

> I will admit to having purchased The Raspberries first album when it
> came out.
> I was wrong to imply he was anything like a one-hit wonder, as he's
> apparently (based on his Wikipedia entry) been working more or less
> steadily except for a few years in the early 1980s.
> As far as Carmen and Rachmaninoff, the entry states:
>
> His first two solo singles were chart hits in 1976. Both were built
> around themes by Sergei Rachmaninoff. The first of these singles, "All

> By Myself" ??? an adaptation of a theme from Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto
> No. 2 ??? hit #2 in the United States, and #12 in the United Kingdom where

> it was his only charting hit. It sold over one million copies, and was
> awarded a gold disc by the R.I.A.A. in April 1976.[3] The follow-up

> single, "Never Gonna Fall in Love Again" ??? heavily inspired by the main
> theme of the slow movement of Rachmaninoff's Symphony No. 2 ??? reached

> #11 on the Billboard Hot 100, and hit #1 on the US Adult Contemporary
> Chart, as well as #1 on the Cash Box chart.
>
> In any case, a talented guy.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Carmen
>
> Steve

He definitely didn't earn comparisons to McCartney and Brian Wilson for
no reason, some of the chord progressions from the early albums were
almost too good to be true, quite sophisticated with modulations all
over the place.

Steven Bornfeld

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Nov 5, 2011, 3:57:02 PM11/5/11

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I actually hadn't heard the comparisons (nor do I remember many of his
early songs).
I do like modulations in pop songs when they make sense. They at least
imply the writer has some facility with his/her scales ;-). It can be
overdone. I'm definitely in the minority--many call Kern's "All the
Things You Are" the best popular song ever written. I think the
modulations here are almost a fetish. But modulations can add interest
to the melodic line (to say nothing of the harmonizations).