TOP TEN TENORS OF ALL TIME
Derek Abbott
top ten tenors of all time?
To get the ball rolling here is my bias:
1) Caruso
2) Bjoerling
3) Elvis
4) John McCormack
5) Carreras
6) Mario Lanza
7) Gigli
8) Pavarotti
9) Domingo
10) Vicars
(For those with discernment, you could have two separate top
ten lists: one for robusto tenors and the other for sprinto tenors).
(How about a top ten list of second rate tenors like Harry Seacombe,
Carlo Bergonzi, tec. :-)
Basses:
1) Chaliapin
2) Ivan Rebroff
3) Paul Robeson
4) Fisher Descau
:
:
:
:
10) ??????
Dan Koren
>Would people care to share their personal ranking of
>top ten tenors of all time?
>
>To get the ball rolling here is my bias:
>
>
>1) Caruso
>
>2) Bjoerling
>
>3) Elvis
Do you mean Pelvis Resley ?!?
>4) John McCormack
>
>5) Carreras
>
>6) Mario Lanza
>
>7) Gigli
>
>8) Pavarotti
>
>9) Domingo
>
>10) Vicars
I think you're totally off the mark:
Richard Tauber, Joseph Schmidt, Fritz Wunderlich, Richard Tucker, and
Sergei Lemeshev.
Case closed.
;-))
dk
PS. Strangely enough, how could such an Italophile like you miss
Giuseppe di Stefano, Mario del Monaco, and Carlo Bergonzi ?!?
Do you really think they were inferior to the great Pelvis?
IO1...@maine.maine.edu
to be mentioned...
Gareth Morrell
What if we thought about tenors who were equally skillful in concert and
operatic repertoire? Tauber and Wunderlich would presumably stay on the
list. And we might think about including Nicolai Gedda, Richard Lewis, and
even Peter Pears.
--
Gareth Morrell do...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
A. L. Winkler
Vanzo (for the higher-voiced tenor)?
Stefan Kurth
-Stefan
_____________________________________________________________________
Stefan Kurth Berlin, Germany s...@contrib.de
Arne Adolfsen
dab...@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Derek Abbott) writes:
> Would people care to share their personal ranking of
> top ten tenors of all time?
How about since the advent of the phonograph instead
of "all time"? After all, we don't know what estimable
tenors like Mario and Jean de Reszke sounded like.
In no particular order:
Fernando de Lucia, Herman Jadlowker, Dmitri Smirnov,
Enrico Caruso, Tito Schipa, Lauritz Melchior, Beniamino
Gigli, Mattia Battistini, Luciano Pavorotti, David
Devries.
Arne
Kerrie Boardman
10) Jussi Bjorling
9) Luciano Pavarotti
8) Richard Tucker
7) Lauritz melchior
6) Tito Schipa
5) Placido Domingo
4) Giacomo Aragall (the only one who can move me to tears with E
lucevan...)
3) Giovanni Martinelli
2) Giacomo Lauri-Volpi
1) Enrico Caruso
Gabriel M. Kuper
I was in Stuttgart yesterday (to see Krenek's Der Diktator,
Das geheimne Koenigreich and Schwergericht oder die Ehre der Nation).
I noticed that near the opera house there was a Wolfgang-Windgassen-Weg.
Stuttgart street scenes have a brief description of who the
person the street is named after was. Windgassen is described
as "Operndirektor, Opernregisseur und Kammersaenger". Interesting
set of priorities...
Gabriel Kuper
Richard M. Berrong
GK>
GK>I was in Stuttgart yesterday (to see Krenek's Der Diktator,
GK>Das geheimne Koenigreich and Schwergericht oder die Ehre der Nation).
GK>
GK>Gabriel Kuper
Could you tell us (or at least me) something about this opera/s? The only
opera of his that I know is Jonny spielt auf.
Richard Berrong
Richard M. Berrong
AA>
AA>In article <2h5fd3$g...@huon.itd.adelaide.edu.au>
AA>dab...@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au (Derek Abbott) writes:
AA>
AA>> Would people care to share their personal ranking of
AA>> top ten tenors of all time?
AA>
AA>In no particular order:
AA>Fernando de Lucia, Herman Jadlowker, Dmitri Smirnov,
AA>Enrico Caruso, Tito Schipa, Lauritz Melchior, Beniamino
AA>Gigli, Mattia Battistini, Luciano Pavorotti, David
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
AA>Devries.
AA>
AA>Arne
I suspect you're confusing him with someone else. Battistini was a
baritone - a high baritone, granted, but a baritone none the less.
Richard Berrong
Stevan Apter
>Das geheimne Koenigreich and Schwergericht oder die Ehre der Nation).
How was it?
Diarmuid Pigott
: Would people care to share their personal ranking of
: top ten tenors of all time?
: To get the ball rolling here is my bias:
: 1) Caruso
: 2) Bjoerling
: 3) Elvis
^^^^^
Slonimsky lists him as a baritone...
Kerrie Boardman
Edoardo Ferrari-Fontana.
Stephen Wilcox
decent tenors, you've got to go well beyond the can belto school
of grand opera and look at singers with intelligence and sheer
beauty of voice. Peter Pears is a must. And only one singer still
active today has been mentioned. What about Rogers Covey-Crump,
Anthony Rolfe Johnson or John Mark Ainsley? Be a bit more
imaginative!
------
Stephen Wilcox ** Research is 5% inspiration
wil...@maths.ox.ac.uk ** and 95% desperation.
Steve R. Van Dien
: Would people care to share their personal ranking of
: top ten tenors of all time?
: To get the ball rolling here is my bias:
: 1) Caruso
: 2) Bjoerling
I agree that they're 1 and 2, but I can never decide who's first and
second. Some days I think it's C, some days B --
: 3) Elvis
No go, Derek: Elvis was a baritone! A *high* baritone, to be sure,
but still not a tenor. Check out the chapter on Elvis in Henry Pleasants'
THE GREAT AMERICAN POPULAR SINGERS (not a classical singer, either, but
that's beside the point) --
: 4) John McCormack
: 5) Carreras
: 6) Mario Lanza
: 7) Gigli
: 8) Pavarotti
: 9) Domingo
: 10) Vicars
: (For those with discernment, you could have two separate top
: ten lists: one for robusto tenors and the other for sprinto tenors).
: (How about a top ten list of second rate tenors like Harry Seacombe,
: Carlo Bergonzi, tec. :-)
Well, I'd drop Carreras. He *might* have become an all-time great if he
hadn't blown his voice out on heavy roles years ago. P and D -- well, I
dunno. A month or too ago I argued that they didn't belong on the all-time
list, but behold: I have the capacity for growth! I now think they do, but
where? That's what I'm not sure about. I'd have to rate them below
Bjoerling and Caruso for sure, also Gigli, probably McCormack,
and a few you didn't mention,
such as Melchior, Georges Thill, Leo Slezak, perhaps Lauri-Volpi, and
Vickers. And Lanza doesn't qualify, sorry; *potential* greatness isn't
enough. The voice *was* terrific, but the technique was rough and ready, his
interpretive skills rudimentary.
A *second*-rate list? Geez, it'd be longer than an Arctic night! :) Many
opera afficianados would rate Bergonzi at least as high as Domingo and
Pavarotti --
: Basses:
: 1) Chaliapin
: 2) Ivan Rebroff
: 3) Paul Robeson
: 4) Fisher Descau
: :
: :
: :
: :
: 10) ??????
Wellll -- Fischer-Dieskau is a baritone, not a bass. Rebroff --
ieouhhh, let's leave him out:). More of a pop-classic singer than a
classical one. I'd leave Robeson out for the same reason; though he had one
of the greatest natural voices I've heard (far better than Rebroff's, IMO),
it was never fully developed --
the compass and range of color were always limited. Though *nobody* sang
spirituals as well as Robeson (possible exception: Marian Anderson). No
argument about Chaliapin. A few more to round out the list, in no
particular order (rating them as to first, second, etc. is too tough):
Ezio Pinza, Marcel Journet, Jose Mardones, Alexander Kipnis, Gottlob
Frick, Cesare Siepi. And Samuel Ramey --
Steve Van Dien
John William Thomas
After reading through the various "Top Ten Tenors" listings, I was
pleased to notice your listing of Joseph Schmidt. I heartily agree. I
first heard him when I was fourteen or fifteen, just as my interest in
opera was starting to bloom. I have since done considerable research on
his life and would be curious to know if you (or anybody else on the net)
knew him personally. Recently I acquired some CD issues containing
performances of his, some of which were thought lost or destroyed by the
Nazis. A few are actual radio broadcast transcriptions; others are
Jewish hymns. Sometime last year, EMI released the "Complete EMI
Recordings of Joseph Schmidt," a very good four CD set (which took a
chunk out of my poor student's paycheck!) and Koch has released a
wonderful CD of previously unissued radio broadcast performances, some
quite unusual. Preiser has issued a fascinating CD of Jewish hymns,
most available for the first time since their original issues in
1929-1930.
My Other Top Tenors:
1) Caruso
2) Jussi Bjoerling
3) Joseph Schmidt
4) Richard Tauber
5) Placido Domingo
6) Leo Sleazak
7) Helge Rosewange (spelling?)
8) Chris Merritt
9) Jan Peerce
10) George Thill
If anybody has any info. out there about Schmidt, I'd really be happy to
hear from you. Thanks!
jwthomas
Topi Ylinen
Never mind whether he was a tenor or a baritone, he doesn't really belong
here. Not arguing about his singing technique here, but IMHO we don't need
to go that far: he forfeits his place on the list already by singing into
a microphone...
<Topi Ylinen = f1t...@kielo.uta.fi>
**************************************************************
* One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, *
* One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. *
**************************************************************
<Urgent messages to: t...@modeemi.cs.tut.fi - thank you>
Simon Aspden
> top ten tenors of all time?
Funnily enough the last time I read this group was a couple of years ago and
the topic of the time was a top ten tenors list.....
I wouldn't have a hope of listing 10 but.....how about 3....
In rough ranking order of the top "Three Tenors" of my collection:
1) Gigli ) I can't really choose between these two. Gigli is so dramtic
Bjorling ) and expressive yet Bjorling is so smooth and lyrical.
3) Caruso Poor guy is deader than Elvis. Sorry that his recordings
hide (or cover up) his talent (or weaknesses).
I have a number of others in my collection including:
- Pavarotti
- Domingo
- McCracken
- Vickers
- Correlli
- Carreras
They all make sounds that I like but they don't quite have that special
something that puts them up with my "Three Tenors". I am certainly not
discounting any of the other "oldies" who I have not really heard eg. Shipa.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PEACE COMPUTERS NEW ZEALAND LIMITED - Hey, buddy, wanna Buy a billing system?
Simon Aspden - A developer of "ENERGY Utility Billing and Information System"
Richard M. Berrong
>I have only heard one recording he did, but it was absolutely wonderful --
>Edoardo Ferrari-Fontana.
Could I ask which one that is? I only have one of his as well, an excerpt
in Italian from Tristan.
He interests me because Puccini spoke highly of him for a performance of
"Girl of the Golden West".
Richard Berrong
Diarmuid Pigott
Arne Adolfsen
In article <2he8qp$p...@usenet.mcs.kent.edu>
> In article <2hckf8$o...@mizar.usc.edu>
> adol...@mizar.usc.edu (Arne Adolfsen) writes:
> >Gigli, Mattia Battistini, Luciano Pavorotti, David
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I suspect you're confusing him with someone else. Battistini was a
> baritone - a high baritone, granted, but a baritone none the less.
I was thinking of Francesco Tamagno. I had meant
to correct this yesterday morning, but our seismic
activity prevented me from doing so. Anyway, it
gives me a chance to observe that Battistini was
a fantastic singer, too.
Arne
R. Wilmer
Jussi Bjorling (who seems to be on nearly everone's list)
Enrico Caruso
Lauritz Melchior
Tito Schipa
John McCormick
Bruce Brewer
Placido Domingo
Paul Derenne
Fritz Wunderlich
Jan Peerce
Luciano Pavarotti is not on my list, but I thought he was
just great in Saturday afternoon's broadcast of "I Lombardi".
j...@trentu.ca
>
>
>Jussi Bjorling (who seems to be on nearly everone's list)
>Enrico Caruso
>Lauritz Melchior
>Tito Schipa
>John McCormick
>Bruce Brewer
>Placido Domingo
>Paul Derenne
>Fritz Wunderlich
>Jan Peerce
>
Joseph So
Trent University
Peterborough, Ontario
Canada
Gabriel M. Kuper
It's operas (plural)--a triple bill, modelled, according to the
program notes on the Hindemith trilogy (Moerder, Hoffnung der Frauen
etc)--they don't mention the Puccini as a precedent, but I wonder.
(question: are there any precedents for Trittico?)
They are rather short: with 2 intermissions, the whole thing
lasts 2.5 hours. The first two, with two scenes each, are
rather longer than the last.
The trilogy is the the immediate successor to Jonny, with both
the music and the libretti by Krenek. The music is typical Krenek--
except that that doesn't tell you very much, since Jonny is rather
atypical. I suppose that the closest analogues would be Hindemith
or Busoni, though the music sounds rather lighter in character than
that comparison might suggest. The light music, particularly in the
last of the three (suggesting period dance music), is much more integrated
into the surrounding music than is the case (intentionally) with Jonny.
As for the individual operas. The first, Der Diktator, least impressed
me--the music didn't seem to do much beyond illustrating the text.
It's described as a "Tragische Oper"--the dictator that the title
refers to in modelled on Mussolini, but the opera concerns itself
mainly with his relation with his wife, and seduction of the officer's
wife. The main topical references concern the officer being blinded
in the gas warfare in WWI.
The second opera, Das gehime Koenigreich is described as a
"Maerchenoper"--fairy tale opera. It's a King-Lear based story,
about a King and his Fool. It has a rather complicated plot
involving a rebellion, the King exchanging clothes
with the Fool to escape, his wife being transformed into
a tree, the King trying to kill himself by hanging--only
to discover that the tree is really his wife...
The title of the third opera (a "Burleske Operette") means
"Heavyweight, or the Glory of the Nation". The main character--
Adam Ochsenschwanz--is a heavyweight boxer. This is of course
a Zeitoper, with popular dance music, journalists, training
equipment (electrified), etc. A lot of fun, and at 20 minutes
never becomes tiresome, as some parts of Jonny can.
The main plot (he manages to work in side plots, even though
it's so short...) concerns the seduction of Ochsenschwanz's
wife by the Dancing Master--when he gets suspicious, he is satisfied
by the explanation that they are training for the "Weltrekord im
Dauertanz"...the opera ends with the pair escaping, and the boxer is
left hooked up to an electrified training machine, with the
state official informing him that "Sie sind die Ehre der Nation".
I'm not sure what point, if any, this all is supposed to make,
but it was a lot of fun.
The performances were all very good. Alexander Winterson
conducted very well (as far as I can tell, with nothing to compare
it to). Karl-Friedrich Duerr sang Ochsenschwanz and the Dictator.
Other role were doubled as well--I've no idea if these doublings
were specified by Krenek or not. I enjoyed them all a lot--my reservations
about the Dictator are mainly because I can't remember much about the
music.
As for the audience: this was the only opera that week in Stuttgart
that was not sold out--the house was about half full. On the
other hand, a lot of the people waiting with me for the box office
to open were there for at least the second time (I'd
like to go again, but Stuttgart has by far the worst late night
train connections to Munich of all the nearby towns. I got
home after 3am...)
Gabriel Kuper
Richard M. Berrong
>
>(question: are there any precedents for Trittico?)
>
a variety of different three opera groupings, such as settings for three
Gorky stories, three stories by different authors, etc. The obvious
precedent, at least in his mind, was Cav/Pag. Since it was much more
common in his day to have double bills - an opera and a ballet, usually,
but sometimes a longer opera and a shorter one - I don't think the
idea of three short operas being done in one evening struck either him
or his contemporaries as being that original.
And, for what it's worth, when he wrote the first of the three, Il
Tabarro, he had no idea either what other short operas he might undertake,
or even if he was going to write any other short operas to be performed
with it. Once Tabarro was almost done, he at first suggested a
performance of it with his own early, short "Le Villi". Only later did
he come up with the idea of writing Gianni Schicchi and Suor Angelica.
In fact, had WWI not come along when it did, he probably would have
premiered Tabarro before he got around to considering GS and SA.
Richard Berrong
Gabriel M. Kuper
> In article <CJvJ8...@ecrc.de> ku...@ecrc.de (Gabriel M. Kuper) writes:
> >
> >(question: are there any precedents for Trittico?)
> >
> I suppose that depends on what you mean by precedents. Puccini considered
> a variety of different three opera groupings, such as settings for three
> Gorky stories, three stories by different authors, etc. The obvious
> precedent, at least in his mind, was Cav/Pag. Since it was much more
> common in his day to have double bills - an opera and a ballet, usually,
> but sometimes a longer opera and a shorter one - I don't think the
> idea of three short operas being done in one evening struck either him
> or his contemporaries as being that original.
>
I didn't make myself too clear, but there I thought there was some
similarity between the sequence of operas in the Krenek and the
Puccini: A naturalistic, tragic opera, then a magical, fantastic
opera (in the Puccini just the miracle at the end, of course), and finally,
a comic one. I don't know whether the Hindemith triple-bill
has a similar sequence or not.
The Cav/Pag precedent is of fairly similar operas, in that sense.
(of course, the practice of mixing serious/comic operas is very old,
going back at least to the intermezzi a century or two earlier).
Gabriel Kuper
Kerrie Boardman
I think that it was either La donna e mobile or Questo e quella.
Kerrie Boardman
kbo...@andy.bgsu.edu
Kenneth Wolman
|> Enrico Caruso
|> Lauritz Melchior
|> Tito Schipa
|> John McCormick
|> Bruce Brewer
|> Placido Domingo
|> Paul Derenne
|> Fritz Wunderlich
|> Jan Peerce
It occurs to me that the topic is impossible to address given that tenors such
as Duprez never recorded. I'd also love to hear what some of the great castrati
sounded like: not tenors, surely; not necessarily sopranos. Maybe the question
really is "favorites" rather than "all time greatest."
Given that constraint, here are mine, personal opinions, utterly indefensible in
some cases except that I LIKE them, with some obvious crossovers.
Bjoerling (of course: I think he sings to God each morning)
Caruso (even through the lousy recordings the voice is still astounding)
Melchior
Nicolai Gedda (I can still hear his Nemorino in L'Elisir d'Amore in November
1965: "Una Furtiva Lagrima" was the single most perfect piece of singing I think
I've ever heard)
Jon Vickers
Domingo
Pavarotti
Richard Tucker
Richard Tauber
Wunderlich (who would have become the greatest German and Mozartean lyric tenor
who ever lived if HE'D lived)
|>
|> Luciano Pavarotti is not on my list, but I thought he was
|> just great in Saturday afternoon's broadcast of "I Lombardi".
|>
|>
--
Kenneth Wolman | "Which way are we going?"
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center | "The way we're heading...."
914-784-7582 |
c1...@watson.ibm.com | Thos. Pynchon, _V_, 1963
David McAnally
David McAnally
tmu...@husc.harvard.edu
many singular voices in operatic history. Does this make those singers
great? Case in point: Tamagno. Tamagno clearly had work to do on his
technique. At the same time, his power is clearly like nothing anyone has
heard since, and the impassioned tone which was necessary for the first
Othello still speaks. Is he one of the greatest tenors? He was the
reigning dramatic tenor for twenty years, but was this the fault of a public
too desirous of, as they have been called on this group, can belto tenors?
Case in point: the man himself, Caruso. His voice was frequently described
as a trumpet. The sounds on the records do not sound like anything any of
us have heard, even on other 78's. Is this a fault in the record? Fault or
not, that all-encompassing upper range is singular. No-one ever ventured
to say that Bjoerling sounded anything like Caruso. It was only when his
generation shrank that people began to compare the latest divo to Caruso.
I am babbling on a bit, but my points are clear enough. We don't really
know the sound of the earlier recorded tenors, and all we are left with is
that there voices were significantly different from anything else we have
heard. So where do we go from there? I hear enough in the Caruso
recordings to feel that he is unquestionably the best ever, but I have had
a lot of exposure to 78's and have adapted to the sound better than most.
Most people who say that Caruso was the greatest tenor ever say it out of
tradition rather than having been moved by anything to believe it. I would
recommend his O paradiso, in a version which lets his unearthly crescendo
grow as it desires to, as proof of his number-one-ness. But again, no
recording exists which really gives us the truth. So this debate is rather
hopeless as far as pre-1930 tenors are concerned. I won't make a list
myself, because I couldn't decide. But there are a few other things I'd
like to mention. First of all, many lists place Pavarotti above Domingo; I
think this highlights the problem which has led someto suggest seperate
lists for dramatic/very spinto and lyric/lyrico-spintos. Domingo deserves
a high place on the dramatic list (his voice is now so dark that no other
classification seems reasonable to me), because in many ways he typefies
what in the past we have connected with greatness. Pavarotti, on the other
hand, does not have a voice like Caruso or Bjoerling...or Domingo; his is
a shading which makes his vocal classification obscure. While he clearly
failed at Othello, he is convincing in some other heavier roles. I think
the jury will long be out on just where his voice belongs on the list.
If we split the lists,one tenor will present a particular problem -
Gigli. He went in his recordings through just about every type of voice
there is, from the most feminine lyric to a hairy dramatic. So here lies
another discussion. John McCormack was born in the wrong time.
operatically. If he had been born later, (1)there would have been no
interest in his Irish songs and he would have had to stick to opera, and
(2)he would have had lyric roles to do. The lyric repertoire was much
restricted in his day, and many of his recordings are simply lyric
versions of spinto songs, which give him a bad name. If you haven't read
the other postings, the following will serve merely to confuse. I think
the honest vocal position of Battistini could really be debated. He
bottoms out absolutely at a C (he actually changes the low A in Eri tu,
with grace as always) and anything E or below sounds a bit hollow.
Meanwhile his high G's and even A's are very easy and seem to me to have
more of a tenor ring about them than a baritone one. The Austrian "Court
Opera Classics" LP i have of him calls him a "Tenor-Bariton" and I would
tend to agree - he probably could have sung a tenor. He certainly would
not have been one of the greatest tenors of all time, or he would have
sung in that range, but it is interesting to consider the possibilities.
I was amused by the imaginative spelling and vocal classification of
Fischer-Dieskau. His Garcia-method training does make his Four Serious
Songs as serious as you could want them, but it is in much higher stuff
that we hear the original meat of the voice; he classifies himself as a
high baritone. It is a complement to the man that he convinced someone
that he was a bass, probably on the strength of something like the Brahms.
I would place Pinza above Chaliapin, but this is just personal taste. It
takes a perverted mind to hear Pinza's terribly flat De Vieni and like it,
but mine is warped in jsut that way.I am a great fan of Kipnis.
Richard M. Berrong
I appreciate that this is an unmoderated group, but tmunro might want to
consider some of the following:
Tamagno clearly had work to do on his
TM>technique. At the same time, his power is clearly like nothing anyone has
TM>heard since,
I can think of a long list of tenors, mostly Wagnerian, who have/had Tamagno's
power, or more.
and the impassioned tone which was necessary for the first
TM>Othello still speaks.
This is most certainly true. But his "impassioned tone", which still
speaks to us even through the very limited quality of his recordings, is
something other than his power. Francesco Merli, for example, had power,
but his singing bores me very quickly, because all I hear is power.
Is he one of the greatest tenors? He was the
TM>reigning dramatic tenor for twenty years, but was this the fault of a public
TM>too desirous of, as they have been called on this group, can belto tenors?
Puccini wanted Tamagno very much for productions of his "Edgar". Puccini
knew a little about singing. And, of course, Verdi chose him for "Otello".
From this we can safely conclude that his fame was not just the result of
audiences that liked loud singers... however good at singing loud he may
have been.
TM>Case in point: the man himself, Caruso. His voice was frequently described
TM>as a trumpet. The sounds on the records do not sound like anything any of
TM>us have heard, even on other 78's. Is this a fault in the record? Fault or
TM>not, that all-encompassing upper range is singular. No-one ever ventured
TM>to say that Bjoerling sounded anything like Caruso.
Well, actually, Caruso's wife, Dorothy, said that very thing on the record
and repeatedly. I don't mean to be unpleasant, and, as I began by saying,
I realize that this is not a moderated group, but might you not want to
reconsider making all these statements until you have done some reading
on the issues?
It was only when his
TM>generation shrank that people began to compare the latest divo to Caruso.
TM>I am babbling on a bit, but my points are clear enough.
?!?
We don't really
TM>know the sound of the earlier recorded tenors, and all we are left with is
TM>that there voices were significantly different from anything else we have
TM>heard.
Just as many of the voices we hear today sound different from each other.
John McCormack was born in the wrong time.
TM>operatically. If he had been born later, (1)there would have been no
TM>interest in his Irish songs and he would have had to stick to opera,
Trust me, the interest in, and sales of, those Irish songs is as great
now as ever.
TM>(2)he would have had lyric roles to do. The lyric repertoire was much
TM>restricted in his day, and many of his recordings are simply lyric
TM>versions of spinto songs, which give him a bad name.
Oh, but this is completely wrong. There were loads of operas with roles
for lyric tenor that were frequently sung in McCormack's day.
Richard Berrong
Margaret Mikulska
>
>Would people care to share their personal ranking of
>top ten tenors of all time?
>
>Basses:
>
>1) Chaliapin
>2) Ivan Rebroff
>3) Paul Robeson
>4) Fisher Descau
That's Fischer-Dieskau, and he's not a bass, but a baritone.
As much as I'm not really fond of ranking of anything or anybody in art,
since you started listing top basses, I can't help mentioning a
marvelous, but almost unknown voice: that of Mark Reyzen (or Reizen,
depending on how you transliterate).
Reyzen was born in Ukraine in the early 1890s. He was affiliated for
most of his life with one of the best Soviet opera theaters (either
Leningrad or Moscow, I forget which). He had a deep, big, soft voice -
the kind one usually associates with Russian basses. Unfortunately his
best years coincided with WWII and the Cold War, and there are few
available recordings from those times. However, his voice held quite
well, and he can be found on Soviet recordings from 1960s. In
particular, I recalll a recording of Rimsky-Korsakov's "Sadko" with
Reyzen singing a short but beautiful aria, the song of the merchant from
the North - from a sort of semi-mythical Scandinavian country. (If you
know "Sadko", you may remember that the opera is set in the mediaeval
city of Novgorod, and in one of the scene three merchants from three
different countries (Novgorod being an international trade center in the
Middle Ages) sing one song each. The tenor aria - the "Hindu" song - is
well known outside the opera; the baritone aria - from Venice - is not
particularly memorable; the bass aria deserves more popularity than it
has, and is a great showpiece for this kind of bass voice. A big,
Romantic aria, with large gestures.)
For the voice itself, I would rate him well above Chaliapin.
Reyzen sang until late in his life, and if I'm not completely mistaken,
he gave his farewell operatic performance at the age of 90! (If I'm
mistaken, it was 80, which is still impressive.) He sang Prince Gremin
in "Eugene Onegin" - admittedly a short role, but again, one very well
suited for his voice. He died about a year ago, at the age of (approx.) 100.
I know of one CD with his recordings available in this country, although
I don't recall the label off-hand.
-Margaret
Roger Lustig
>Would people care to share their personal ranking of
>top ten tenors of all time?
>To get the ball rolling here is my bias:
>1) Caruso
>2) Bjoerling
>3) Elvis
A baritone.
>4) John McCormack
>5) Carreras
*why*?
>6) Mario Lanza
Double *why*?
>7) Gigli
>8) Pavarotti
>9) Domingo
>10) Vicars
Vickers?
I'd find room for Melchior, de Reszke, Rubini, Beard, Borosini,
Gedda, di Stefano, Pears, and a few others--all of those long
before Carreras, in any case. Peter Schreier, too.
>(For those with discernment, you could have two separate top
>ten lists: one for robusto tenors and the other for sprinto tenors).
I'm an MCIo man myself...8-)
>(How about a top ten list of second rate tenors like Harry Seacombe,
>Carlo Bergonzi, tec. :-)
Neddie deserves a list of his own.
>Basses:
>1) Chaliapin
>2) Ivan Rebroff
>3) Paul Robeson
>4) Fisher Descau
I take it you're including baritones if you include Fischer-Dieskau.
>10) ??????
Ghiaurov, Siepi, plenty of others.
Roger
Steve R. Van Dien
: In article <tmunro.57...@husc.harvard.edu> tmu...@husc.harvard.edu writes:
: I can think of a long list of tenors, mostly Wagnerian, who have/had Tamagno's
: power, or more.
I hope you don't mind my playing devil's advocate, Richard, but is it
really possible to make such an accurate judgment of Tamagno's power today?
All we have are his records, which are primitive in technology, and
contemporary accounts of his singing. Who would you say has had *more*
power, and how can you tell? Just curious --
Steve Van Dien
tmu...@husc.harvard.edu
>Subject: Re: TOP TEN TENORS OF ALL TIME
>From: rber...@Nimitz.mcs.kent.edu (Richard M. Berrong)
>Date: 20 Jan 1994 15:11:45 GMT
I don't quite know why people feel so free to belittle and insult others
when doing so over elctronic mail, and I certainly didn't expect anything
of that sort on this group. But I suppose now I must respond or lose the
duel altogether.>In article <tmunro.57...@husc.harvard.edu> tmunro@
husc.harvard.edu writes:
>I appreciate that this is an unmoderated group, but tmunro might want to
>consider some of the following:
>Tamagno clearly had work to do on his
>TM>technique. At the same time, his power is clearly like nothing anyone has
>TM>heard since,
>I can think of a long list of tenors, mostly Wagnerian, who have/had Tamagno's
>power, or more.
There is such a thing as a generational memory, and one must see that (1)
Tamagno had the biggest voice of his day, and (2)no one, as far as I know,
who heard him claimed that anyone he heard later had a bigger voice. I
lack a perfect knowledge of all literature pertaining to this, but I
understood that Tamagno having the biggest voice was commonly
acknowledged >and the impassioned tone which was necessary for the first >
TM>Othello still speaks.
>This is most certainly true. But his "impassioned tone", which still
>speaks to us even through the very limited quality of his recordings, is
>something other than his power. Francesco Merli, for example, had power,
>but his singing bores me very quickly, because all I hear is power.
Yes, it is something other than his power, or else I wouldn't have mentioned
it.
>Is he one of the greatest tenors? He was the
>TM>reigning dramatic tenor for twenty years, but was this the fault of a public
>TM>too desirous of, as they have been called on this group, can belto tenors?
>Puccini wanted Tamagno very much for productions of his "Edgar". Puccini
>knew a little about singing. And, of course, Verdi chose him for "Otello".
>From this we can safely conclude that his fame was not just the result of
>audiences that liked loud singers... however good at singing loud he may
>have been.
Tamagno was in many ways the first of his kind. I doubt that anyone before
him was able to survive in the business with the kind of voice Verdi wanted
for Othello. But when he did arrive, the waters were very warm, for
composers were attempting a dramatic level not before seen. I certainly
don't claim Tamagno made it on loudness alone (if I do lpease show me
where), I am just saying that audiences of the time were hungry for the
passion and fire which Tamagno could give them. That he did provide it
made him the major tenor of his time, but this by no means proves technical
perfection.
>TM>Case in point: the man himself, Caruso. His voice was
frequently described >TM>as a trumpet. The sounds on the records do not
sound like anything any of >TM>us have heard, even on other 78's. Is this a
fault in the record? Fault or >TM>not, that all-encompassing upper range is
singular. No-one ever ventured >TM>to say that Bjoerling sounded anything
like Caruso.
>Well, actually, Caruso's wife, Dorothy, said that very thing on the record
>and repeatedly. I don't mean to be unpleasant, and, as I began by saying,
>I realize that this is not a moderated group, but might you not want to
>reconsider making all these statements until you have done some reading
>on the issues?
Mea culpa.
>It was only when his
>TM>generation shrank that people began to compare the latest divo to Caruso.
>TM>I am babbling on a bit, but my points are clear enough.
>?!?
Was this necessary if you really don't mean to be unpleasant?
>We don't really
>TM>know the sound of the earlier recorded tenors, and all we are left with is
>TM>that there voices were significantly different from anything else we have
>TM>heard.
>Just as many of the voices we hear today sound different from each other.
I don't know what your comment has to do with what I am saying; perhaps you
jsut wished to say something nasty again.
>John McCormack was born in the
wrong time. >TM>operatically. If he had been born later, (1)there would
have been no >TM>interest in his Irish songs and he would have had to stick
to opera,
>Believe me, the interest in, and sales of, those Irish songs is as great
>now as ever.
Let's not exaggerate, and no I don't trust you. McCormack was the first, I
believe, to sell a million copies of a record. He would not do this today,
in all honesty.>
TM>(2)he would have had lyric roles to do. The lyric
repertoire was much >TM>restricted in his day, and many of his recordings
are simply lyric >TM>versions of spinto songs, which give him a bad name.
>Oh, but this is completely wrong. There were loads of operas with roles
>for lyric tenor that were frequently sung in McCormack's day.
Perhaps you deny the resurgence of the bel canto repertoire from what was a
sadly restricted and homogenous list of operas earlier in this century.
The major houses were not playing Rosinni,Donizetti, etc. You can go right
ahead and claim that the lyric repertoire was comparable at the major houses,
but only because this is a free country. The French repertoire was much
bigger and more popular, but this certainly did not take up the slack.
Now I am very sorry that I have tod efend myself like some sort of criminal,
but clearly many of the things you said were said simply to insult, and I am
afraid I lack the wisdom to see the advantage in doing this. I expect you
will again tell be that some of my corrections are wrong, but Ithink I am
right in desiring an apology as well.
Sincerely,
TCM
Stan Yi-Huang Liao
[ stuff deleted ]
>
> I'd find room for Melchior, de Reszke, Rubini, Beard, Borosini,
> Gedda, di Stefano, Pears, and a few others--all of those long
> before Carreras, in any case. Peter Schreier, too.
Personally I think Peter Schreier is the ideal tenor for religious
works. He is probably pretty too old now to sing as well as when he
was young, so he goes into conducting (perhaps that's why) ...
--
Stan Yi-Huang Liao syl...@rle-vlsi.mit.edu
Research Laboartory of Electronics (MIT) FAX: (617) 258-7864
Room 36-888 77 Masschusetts Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139 Phone: (617) 253-1583
R. Wilmer
Paul Derenne was a tenor with the Paris Opera and Opera Comique (1935-1960).
Three of his most famous recordings are:
Ravel's L'Heure Espagnol conducted by Ansermet
Monteverdi music conducted by Nadia Boulanger
Charpentier's Medee conducted by Nadia Boulanger
He also made a fine recordings of Faure's Bonne Chanson.
Bruce Brewer is a bel canto and baroque high tenore di grazia who
sings with the Paris Opera and La Scala.
I think his best recording is of Rameau's "Zoroastre".
He has also recorded Rameau's "Les Indes Galantes" and Lully's "Alceste".
Richard
Steve McGowan
What has no-one mentioned Gaetano Bardini?!?!?
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"...scalpel.....sutures.....clamp......oopps.....pen....death certificate...."
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Kerrie Boardman
impressed by his voice: Charles Dalmores.
Kerrie Boardman
kbo...@andy.bgsu.edu
Jon Conrad
recent replies. When it comes to singers, I'm as bad a list-maker as
anybody, so here are my 10 top tenors from the time since recordings
began (no hard evidence before then):
1. Enrico Caruso
2. Lauritz Melchior
3. Jussi Bjoerling
4. Leon Escalais
5. Richard Tauber
6. Beniamino Gigli
7. Jacques Urlus
8. Fritz Wunderlich
9. John McCormack
10. Placido Domingo
Order is solid for the first three, approximate after that. Only one
from my list is currently active (and he just squeaked on).
Jon Alan Conrad
R. Wilmer
>
>Order is solid for the first three, approximate after that. Only one
>from my list is currently active (and he just squeaked on).
>
>Jon Alan Conrad
Now really, Jon, do you consider Domingo a man or a mouse? - Richard
Derek Abbott
>Well, I would definitely nominate Peter Peers, Martyn Hill, Robert Tear.
AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH
He gets to be on the top of my list of
second rate tenors.
Jon Conrad
Fischer-Dieskau and Ivan Rebroff (I'm not even sure Ivan is *human*, but
never mind...).
1. Feodor Chaliapin
2. Ezio Pinza
3. Alexander Kipnis
4. Cesare Siepi
5. James Morris (ok, he's maybe a bass-baritone)
6. Nicolai Ghiaurov
7. Pol Plancon
8. Marcel Journet
9. Kurt Moll
10. Samuel Ramey
Jon Alan Conrad
Helmut PRODINGER
Why not Alfredo Kraus?
Fritz Wunderlich
William Matteuzzi
Worst: Jose Carreras
gggg...@gmail.com
> I don't know about ten, but I think James King...
Concerning King, the following on his recordings may be of interest:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.classical.recordings/-RrVKa7S1Mo