Tchaikovsky Symphony No. 6: When to Clap
doy...@aol.com
sixth? It's kind of odd not to, isn't it? At NJPAC in Newark, New
Jersey, the audience did just that. It was a pretty rousing
performance of a pretty rousing movement, I felt, and to just remain
quiet and wait till the beginning of the last movement, the slow
movement which is oddly placed at the end, to begin would have seemed
a little too prissy or something.
I mean come on now, it would just be stupid not to applaud.
Has anyone witnessed the same thing in performance of this symphony?
Or is the Newark crowd just uncultured?
Matt
grammatim
Many years ago, Barbara Schubert conducted the University of Chicago
student orchestra in this work, including a very rousing third
movement, and somehow with a commanding gesture prevented the audience
from applauding and almost immediately began the fourth movement.
It was a stunning moment.
Jon Teske
I've been in concert halls a few time for this work and I have
performed it myself (as an orchestral Violin 1 or Viola) at least a
half dozen times and I have never seen the third movement go by
without applause.
The other Tchaikovsky work with a "false applause" moment is the Fifth
Symphony where there is a G.P (grand pause) in the last movement not
too far from the end. I have heard applause at that point as well even
though someone with some music training would recognize that cadence
is in the "wrong" key to end the piece. We haven't had a problem too
much of late at that point (I just was part of a performance in
January, and I'm playing it again at the end of this month as a
"guest" performer [I think that is a euphemism for "ringer." In the
last two outings with the piece the program notes have warmed people
about that moment and in one case the conductor mentioned it in his
pre perfromance talk.
I seem to do the last three symphonies pretty often and I have also
played #'s 1 and 3. No one ever seems to do #3 the "Polish"
symphony. I've never played it and I've never heard anyone else doing
it. I just did a Romeo and Juliet two weekends ago. I love playing
that piece...a real workout for the fiddles.
Jon Teske, violinist (sometime violist)
Paul Dormer
<185e5b32-38cf-472e...@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
doy...@aol.com () wrote:
It all depends on the cultural customs of your time and place. In
England now it is generally considered impolite to applaud between
movements of a multi-movement work. To do so is to mark yourself out as
someone who is not paying attention and doesn't realise there's more to
come. (I actually heard applause between movements of a work by Xenakis
recently. Contemporary music audiences are usually more aware of the end
of a work. A friend suggested afterwards that some Classic FM listeners
must have accidentally turned up for the concert.)
I don't know what the custom would have been in the Russia of
Tchaikovsky's day. I believe 200 years ago in Vienna, Beethoven would
have wondered what had gone wrong if there was not generous applause not
only between movements, but during them.
And I've heard that in the days of the Soviet Union, believing that the
people must be right, the last two movements of the Tchaikovsky symphony
were swapped round so that the march movement came last, followed by the
applause.
It also reminds me that on a visit to the US last year, I attended a
baseball game. I grew up watching cricket, where it is considered polite
to applaud a fine play, even if it was not made by your side, I applauded
a play made by the away side. I was the only person in my area of
seating who did so.
grammatim
> On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 20:26:58 -0700 (PDT), grammatim
>
>
>
>
>
> <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >On Apr 6, 9:42 pm, "doyl...@aol.com" <doyl...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Is it customary to applaud after the third movement of Tchaikovsky's
> >> sixth? It's kind of odd not to, isn't it? At NJPAC in Newark, New
> >> Jersey, the audience did just that. It was a pretty rousing
> >> performance of a pretty rousing movement, I felt, and to just remain
> >> quiet and wait till the beginning of the last movement, the slow
> >> movement which is oddly placed at the end, to begin would have seemed
> >> a little too prissy or something.
>
> >> I mean come on now, it would just be stupid not to applaud.
>
> >> Has anyone witnessed the same thing in performance of this symphony?
> >> Or is the Newark crowd just uncultured?
>
> >Many years ago, Barbara Schubert conducted the University of Chicago
> >student orchestra in this work, including a very rousing third
> >movement, and somehow with a commanding gesture prevented the audience
> >from applauding and almost immediately began the fourth movement.
>
> >It was a stunning moment.
>
> I've been in concert halls a few time for this work and I have
> performed it myself (as an orchestral Violin 1 or Viola) at least a
> half dozen times and I have never seen the third movement go by
> without applause.
As I said, Barbara accomplished something quite extraordinary, and the
work benefits from the near-attacca continuation.
> The other Tchaikovsky work with a "false applause" moment is the Fifth
> Symphony where there is a G.P (grand pause) in the last movement not
> too far from the end. I have heard applause at that point as well even
> though someone with some music training would recognize that cadence
> is in the "wrong" key to end the piece.
You don't even need training -- maybe 15 years ago, Sir David
Willcocks was guest-conducting His Majesties Clerkes (a 16-voice
unaccompanied ensemble, which after I left Chicago changed its name to
Colla Voce) in a Baroque work in rondo form, and at the performance I
attended he simply forgot to do the last repetition of the refrain --
so the piece ended on the dominant, and the audience was very confused
about whether to applaud: it just ddn't sound right.
> We haven't had a problem too
> much of late at that point (I just was part of a performance in
> January, and I'm playing it again at the end of this month as a
> "guest" performer [I think that is a euphemism for "ringer." In the
> last two outings with the piece the program notes have warmed people
> about that moment and in one case the conductor mentioned it in his
> pre perfromance talk.
>
> I seem to do the last three symphonies pretty often and I have also
> played #'s 1 and 3. No one ever seems to do #3 the "Polish"
> symphony. I've never played it and I've never heard anyone else doing
> it. I just did a Romeo and Juliet two weekends ago. I love playing
> that piece...a real workout for the fiddles.
>
> Jon Teske, violinist (sometime violist)-
grammatim
> In article
> <185e5b32-38cf-472e-847f-627977f87...@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Literally "applauded"? by clapping, as in cricket? Now that would be
weird.
Unlike (American) football crowds, the stands at baseball games aren't
usually segregated by team. Maybe it was some sort of cross-
continental game, and there weren't any away fans in attendance?
What was the play that impressed you?
grammatim
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:42:50 +1000, doyl...@aol.com wrote
> (in article
> <185e5b32-38cf-472e-847f-627977f87...@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>):
> If he's not, do what seems right to you. You'll either get other people in
> the audience joining in, or you'll get hissing and withering looks. Enjoy!
Surely shushing rather than hissing.
Paul Dormer
<3e96027e-90c5-4e45...@f19g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > It also reminds me that on a visit to the US last year, I attended a
> > baseball game. I grew up watching cricket, where it is considered
> > polite to applaud a fine play, even if it was not made by your side,
> > I applauded a play made by the away side. I was the only person in
> > my area of seating who did so.
>
> Literally "applauded"? by clapping, as in cricket? Now that would be
> weird.
>
Yep. Don't think I shouted, "Well played, sir."
> Unlike (American) football crowds, the stands at baseball games aren't
> usually segregated by team. Maybe it was some sort of cross-
> continental game, and there weren't any away fans in attendance?
>
Nationals playing at the Rockies, so fairly cross-continent.
> What was the play that impressed you?
Can't remember.
grammatim
>
> gramma...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > > It also reminds me that on a visit to the US last year, I attended a
> > > baseball game. I grew up watching cricket, where it is considered
> > > polite to applaud a fine play, even if it was not made by your side,
> > > I applauded a play made by the away side. I was the only person in
> > > my area of seating who did so.
>
> > Literally "applauded"? by clapping, as in cricket? Now that would be
> > weird.
>
> Yep. Don't think I shouted, "Well played, sir."
>
> > Unlike (American) football crowds, the stands at baseball games aren't
> > usually segregated by team. Maybe it was some sort of cross-
> > continental game, and there weren't any away fans in attendance?
>
> Nationals playing at the Rockies, so fairly cross-continent.
Many years ago, back when baseball was played in the Nation's Capital,
there was a saying:
First in war, first in peace, last in the American League.
(Based on "First in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his
countrymen," said of George Washington.)
The new DC franchise doesn't seem to be doing any better (though it's
now in the National League).
Yep, just looked at the website. After 1 game, they're last in the NL
East -- lost to the Florida Marlins 12 - 6.
Paul Dormer
<3dc4e150-30a1-4005...@x6g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> The new DC franchise doesn't seem to be doing any better (though
> it's now in the National League).
>
> Yep, just looked at the website. After 1 game, they're last in the
> NL East -- lost to the Florida Marlins 12 - 6.
Although in this case, if memory serves, they won both games in a double
header. 6-3 in both games, I think it was.
grammatim
> gramma...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > The new DC franchise doesn't seem to be doing any better (though
> > it's now in the National League).
>
> > Yep, just looked at the website. After 1 game, they're last in the
> > NL East -- lost to the Florida Marlins 12 - 6.
>
> Although in this case, if memory serves, they won both games in a double
> header. 6-3 in both games, I think it was.
Two home losses! That must have been fun.
How was the storm the day before?
(There haven't been scheduled double-headers in decades -- though my
very first baseball game, at the Polo Grounds in the Mets' first
season, 1962, was one, and they beat St. Louis twice -- the only time
that season they took both ends of a double-header.)
Paul Dormer
<bf1de855-8fb5-476c...@v15g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> Two home losses! That must have been fun.
>
> How was the storm the day before?
>
Good guess. To give the background to this, the World Science Fiction
Convention was in Denver last August and I was attending. Someone among
the organisers thought it might be a good idea to get a group together to
go to the game one night during the convention and bought a batch of
tickets for an evening game and I put my name down for one.
Got my ticket, got to the stadium, and it rained, and rained, and rained.
Ticket was good to get into a hastily arranged double header the next day.
Don't get much chance to see baseball, so I skipped the convention that
afternoon for several hours in the Denver sun. (Get even less chance to
see baseball now. The one non-subscription TV channel in the UK that
showed baseball has decided not to this year as a cost cutting measure.
Grumble, grumble.)
> (There haven't been scheduled double-headers in decades -- though my
> very first baseball game, at the Polo Grounds in the Mets' first
> season, 1962, was one, and they beat St. Louis twice -- the only
> time that season they took both ends of a double-header.)
At Coors stadium, they have a rule that they don't sell beer after the
7th. (Don't know if this is a general rule at baseball stadia.) But
this doesn't apply during the first game of a double header. The
beer-seller claimed this was only the second time he'd sold beer that
late in a game since the ground opened.
Neil
> sixth?
NO
> It's kind of odd not to, isn't it? At NJPAC in Newark, New
> Jersey, the audience did just that. It was a pretty rousing
> performance of a pretty rousing movement, I felt, and to just remain
> quiet and wait till the beginning of the last movement, the slow
> movement which is oddly placed at the end, to begin would have seemed
> a little too prissy or something.
>
> I mean come on now, it would just be stupid not to applaud.
OK -- THEN GO AHEAD. We've all been at concerts where a movement is
played so wonderfully, the audience applauds, and may even get an
encore of it.
Neil Miller, author: The Piano Lessons Book & Piano Classics Analyzed
Methods and theory for confident memorized performances
http://ThePianoLessonsBook.com
Jonathan Ellis
"Terry" <bo...@clown.invalid> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C6015D73...@news.tpg.com.au...
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:42:50 +1000, doy...@aol.com wrote
> (in article
> <185e5b32-38cf-472e...@v19g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>):
> not.
> If he's not, do what seems right to you. You'll either get other people in
> the audience joining in, or you'll get hissing and withering looks. Enjoy!
Of course, in Tchaikovsky's day, applause between movements would in many
places have been *expected* anyway - although not all conductors and not all
composers considered it acceptable.
doy...@aol.com
think about this refraining from applauding until after all movements
are played.
If you think about it, it is kind of stupid. Imagine not applauding
after a well-played point while watching a tennis match at Wimbledon.
Imagine if the etiquette was only to applaud after a game in a set was
played but never after one of the individual points. Now wouldn't it
be stupid to just sit there after some incredible point was played and
say to yourself, "Oh, looky, looky how stiffy, stiffy I am. I am
educated and well-cultured. Tsk! Tsk! to those heathens who applaud
now! I'll wait until after the game to show my appreciation for such
a fine play. I wouldn't want to disturb the players, you know."
Did Petey really write such music so the audience would just sit there
after it was played? Did he expect to hear crickets?
I mean if he expected an audience just to sit there, why write such
music in the first place?
This is stupid and just not what music was and ever will be about.
By the way, I did look this movement up on line and do see that there
is a history of clapping after it. Some conductors warn the audience
and others have warnings in the notes. One guest conductor scolded
the audience, or something, and wasn't asked back.
I'm going to see Bruckner's Seventh in Newark soon. After the second
movement, my favorite, I'm gonna jump up and down. I forget how it
ends but if it is played well, I'm gonna do something! I hope Jarvi
doesn't mind too much.
Matt
J R Laredo
<doy...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:3365129b-29e0-4011...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
I can't speak for Petey, but my composition teacher HATED when the audience
applauded between movements of anything and he considered it a disruption
which can break up the flow of the piece. That is why in his violin
concerto he went against custom and ended the first movement pianissimo so
the audience wouldn't know when it ended and the second movement began.
grammatim
>
> gramma...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > Two home losses! That must have been fun.
>
> > How was the storm the day before?
>
> Good guess. To give the background to this, the World Science Fiction
> Convention was in Denver last August and I was attending. Someone among
> the organisers thought it might be a good idea to get a group together to
> go to the game one night during the convention and bought a batch of
> tickets for an evening game and I put my name down for one.
>
> Got my ticket, got to the stadium, and it rained, and rained, and rained.
> Ticket was good to get into a hastily arranged double header the next day.
> Don't get much chance to see baseball, so I skipped the convention that
> afternoon for several hours in the Denver sun. (Get even less chance to
> see baseball now. The one non-subscription TV channel in the UK that
> showed baseball has decided not to this year as a cost cutting measure.
> Grumble, grumble.)
I was in Dublin in October 1992, and the BBC obligingly showed the
World Series (Atlanta-Toronto) time-delayed. It took a while for me to
realize that they fitted the games into their 1 1/2-hour slots not by
editing out the pauses, but by omitting innings in which there was no
scoring!!!!
So if that's the way baseball was broadcast in the UK, you're not
missing anything.
I had to scramble for the International Herald Tribune on the plane
back to read the wrap-up account of the Series to find out what had
actually gone on.
(I think that was the year they raised the Canadian flag upside down
at one of the games.)
Paul Dormer
<1d60acd7-b962-4fe4...@g19g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> I was in Dublin in October 1992, and the BBC obligingly showed the
> World Series (Atlanta-Toronto) time-delayed. It took a while for me to
> realize that they fitted the games into their 1 1/2-hour slots not by
> editing out the pauses, but by omitting innings in which there was no
> scoring!!!!
>
Sure that was the BBC? I don't recall the BBC ever taking an interest in
the game.
> So if that's the way baseball was broadcast in the UK, you're not
> missing anything.
Channel Five had been doing overnight coverage since they started in 1997.
The Sunday night game was shown live in its entirety. The Wednesday
night games tended to start too early, so they were shown slightly
delayed, but usually in full. The World Series was always shown in full.
There were no ad breaks, so two guys in a studio in London had to fill in
during all the breaks in the US coverage. As you may recall, game 3 of
the 2005 World Series went to 14 innings. It finished about 7:20 in the
morning, UK time. One of the presenters then had to travel to Bristol to
present a live quiz programme, starting at 12:30 p.m., and then get back
to London for game 4.
Adam Funk
> It all depends on the cultural customs of your time and place. In
> England now it is generally considered impolite to applaud between
> movements of a multi-movement work. To do so is to mark yourself out as
> someone who is not paying attention and doesn't realise there's more to
> come. (I actually heard applause between movements of a work by Xenakis
> recently. Contemporary music audiences are usually more aware of the end
> of a work. A friend suggested afterwards that some Classic FM listeners
> must have accidentally turned up for the concert.)
>
> I don't know what the custom would have been in the Russia of
> Tchaikovsky's day. I believe 200 years ago in Vienna, Beethoven would
> have wondered what had gone wrong if there was not generous applause not
> only between movements, but during them.
Maybe musicologists should work on a "historically informed audience"
movement.
--
Taken on the whole however this is a fine disc and a good example of
the current pop scene attempting to break out of its vulgarisms and
sometimes downright obscene derivative hogwash.
(Julian Stone-Mason B.A., 1972)
Paul Dormer
<3365129b-29e0-4011...@s20g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
doy...@aol.com () wrote:
>
> I'm going to see Bruckner's Seventh in Newark soon. After the second
> movement, my favorite, I'm gonna jump up and down. I forget how it
> ends but if it is played well, I'm gonna do something! I hope Jarvi
> doesn't mind too much.
If it was in the UK, at best you'd look stupid, at worst, you'd get
thrown out.
Paul Dormer
jrlar...@comcastREMOVETHIS.net (J R Laredo) wrote:
>
> I can't speak for Petey, but my composition teacher HATED when the
> audience applauded between movements of anything and he considered
> it a disruption which can break up the flow of the piece. That is
> why in his violin concerto he went against custom and ended the
> first movement pianissimo so the audience wouldn't know when it
> ended and the second movement began.
Famously, Schumann put no gaps between the movements of his 4th symphony
to ensure no-one could clap between the movements, which suggests that
the move away from clapping between movements started some time in the
early to mid nineteenth century.
Just checked the score of the Tchaikovsky. The third movement ends with
just a single quaver at the start of the final bar in all instrument,
followed by three and a half beats rest, and there's no attaca marked to
suggest he expected the final movement to follow without a break.
But I agree, the sudden contrast between the ebullience of the march and
the melancholy of the finale is ruined by applause at that point.
grammatim
>
> gramma...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > I was in Dublin in October 1992, and the BBC obligingly showed the
> > World Series (Atlanta-Toronto) time-delayed. It took a while for me to
> > realize that they fitted the games into their 1 1/2-hour slots not by
> > editing out the pauses, but by omitting innings in which there was no
> > scoring!!!!
>
> Sure that was the BBC? I don't recall the BBC ever taking an interest in
> the game.
I don't _think_ it was a special Irish channel of the BBC, but I
suppose it might have been. You could check the listings -- my talk
there was on October 19, 1992; I was there from the previous Friday
evening to the following Thursday afternoon. (And Aer Lingus managed
to serve an entire immense breakfast/generous dinner during the one-
hour flights to/from Heathrow.)
> > So if that's the way baseball was broadcast in the UK, you're not
> > missing anything.
>
> Channel Five had been doing overnight coverage since they started in 1997.
> The Sunday night game was shown live in its entirety. The Wednesday
> night games tended to start too early, so they were shown slightly
> delayed, but usually in full. The World Series was always shown in full.
>
> There were no ad breaks, so two guys in a studio in London had to fill in
> during all the breaks in the US coverage. As you may recall, game 3 of
> the 2005 World Series went to 14 innings. It finished about 7:20 in the
> morning, UK time. One of the presenters then had to travel to Bristol to
> present a live quiz programme, starting at 12:30 p.m., and then get back
> to London for game 4.
Sports guys over here don't double as game show hosts ... and to do
the reverse would be unthinkable.
Paul Dormer
(Adam Funk) wrote:
>
> > I don't know what the custom would have been in the Russia of
> > Tchaikovsky's day. I believe 200 years ago in Vienna, Beethoven
would
> > have wondered what had gone wrong if there was not generous applause
> > not only between movements, but during them.
>
> Maybe musicologists should work on a "historically informed
> audience" movement.
Norrington has done that. I remember he did a Prom concert at which he
made it known that he approved of clapping between movements. The
Prommers do not approve of this, and made some comment about how they
were not an historical audience.
Paul Dormer
<1a5b1298-27a3-42e5...@r3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > Sure that was the BBC? I don't recall the BBC ever taking an
> > interest in the game.
>
> I don't _think_ it was a special Irish channel of the BBC, but I
> suppose it might have been. You could check the listings -- my talk
> there was on October 19, 1992; I was there from the previous Friday
> evening to the following Thursday afternoon. (And Aer Lingus managed
> to serve an entire immense breakfast/generous dinner during the one-
> hour flights to/from Heathrow.)
Well, there's a coincidence. Just checked my diary and I was flying back
from Dublin on 19th that year, having been there since the Friday.
Also, as I don't appear to have watched the World Series that year, it
was probably being broadcast on a channel I don't receive at home, where
I could have videoed it. I recall Sky Sports, which I then didn't have,
used to cover it in the early nineties.
grammatim
>
> gramma...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > > Sure that was the BBC? I don't recall the BBC ever taking an
> > > interest in the game.
>
> > I don't _think_ it was a special Irish channel of the BBC, but I
> > suppose it might have been. You could check the listings -- my talk
> > there was on October 19, 1992; I was there from the previous Friday
> > evening to the following Thursday afternoon. (And Aer Lingus managed
> > to serve an entire immense breakfast/generous dinner during the one-
> > hour flights to/from Heathrow.)
>
> Well, there's a coincidence. Just checked my diary and I was flying back
> from Dublin on 19th that year, having been there since the Friday.
You didn't stay for my talk at UCD? How rude!
Paul Dormer
<764fd703-c499-4f98...@n33g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
gram...@verizon.net (grammatim) wrote:
>
> > Well, there's a coincidence. Just checked my diary and I was flying
> > back from Dublin on 19th that year, having been there since the
> > Friday.
>
> You didn't stay for my talk at UCD? How rude!
:-)
I was staying at the Royal Marine Hotel in Dun Laoghaire, where the Irish
National Science Fiction Convention was being held.
Brendan R. Wehrung
I saw Bernstein in the Tchaikovsky 6th, and if you have you'll know he
stretches out the final notes of the 4th movement almsot too long. There
he was with the baton held vertically in both hands, sawing away like he
was cutting a log as the volume diminished, when the audience burst into
applause (good performance by the way). He gave us a dirty look, which
quieted everything, while he continued sawing to silence. THEN the
applause.
It was an outdoor music festival, if that's any excuse for the "cultural
level."
I seem to recall applause after the third movement too, which he accepted.
Brendan
John W Kennedy
> Famously, Schumann put no gaps between the movements of his 4th symphony
> to ensure no-one could clap between the movements, which suggests that
> the move away from clapping between movements started some time in the
> early to mid nineteenth century.
...which is about the time that theorists were deciding that a symphony
was a different sort of critter from a suite.
grammatim
Hunh?
Hadn't they noticed that Mozart wrote some of each, and they were
quite different animals?
Who would have confused Beethoven's Nine with "suites"?
John W Kennedy
Theory, as always, follows practice. And Beethoven's early symphonies
are not integrated in the way his later ones are.
doy...@aol.com
his symphonies or that he just didn't want clapping in the 4th?
Wasn't the 4th written first anyway. Or did he revise it a bit later
and added the attaccas then?
And if written first, then the lack of some attaccas in the later ones
must be noted.
Matt
Walter Bushell
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
> It all depends on the cultural customs of your time and place. In
> England now it is generally considered impolite to applaud between
> movements of a multi-movement work. To do so is to mark yourself out as
> someone who is not paying attention and doesn't realise there's more to
> come. (I actually heard applause between movements of a work by Xenakis
> recently. Contemporary music audiences are usually more aware of the end
> of a work. A friend suggested afterwards that some Classic FM listeners
> must have accidentally turned up for the concert.)
Thread tie with the thread about why kids don't grok classical music.
Walter Bushell
<baec2755-dcb5-470d...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
Neil <nhmi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> OK -- THEN GO AHEAD. We've all been at concerts where a movement is
> played so wonderfully, the audience applauds, and may even get an
> encore of it.
Given the state of classical music, somebody enthusiastic enough to
exceed the bounds of propriety in this manner is to be applauded not
censured.
Walter Bushell
Baseball is a sport almost but not quite unlike cricket.
In England, so I hear, you can get mobed doing what you did at a
football (in American soccer) game. [1]
[1] See it that puts a Dent in your day.
Walter Bushell
p...@pauldormer.cix.co.uk (Paul Dormer) wrote:
And you should split the Haydn and Mozart Sonata form works, let's see,
two movements of a Haydn symphony followed by some random etudes and
arias, followed by a Mahler symphonie, some more arias, and finally the
last two movements of the Haydn sympony, for dessert.
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> Is it customary to applaud after the third movement of Tchaikovsky's
> sixth? It's kind of odd not to, isn't it?
When did it become 'customary' to insert yourself into something the
composer intended as a juxtaposition and contrast? Do you stand in front of
your favourite paintings drawing smileys next to the figures whose
expressions you like?
> At NJPAC in Newark, New
> Jersey, the audience did just that. It was a pretty rousing
> performance of a pretty rousing movement, I felt, and to just remain
> quiet and wait till the beginning of the last movement, the slow
> movement which is oddly placed at the end, to begin would have seemed
> a little too prissy or something.
'Oddly placed at the end'. Silly Tchaikovsky. If only he'd done something
less 'odd': you could have clapped all over the fucking place. And what a
shame he never thought of putting some jugglers in the finale: you could
have stood up and cheered. Wouldn't that have been fun?
>
> I mean come on now, it would just be stupid not to applaud.
>
Jeeezus. Talk about 'missing the point'. I bet you think the endings of
Shostakovich 5 and 6 are 'happy' too...
W.
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If I'm there, and I'm enjoying it more, and on more levels, than they are,
then they should shut the fuck up: if I can be quiet, so can they.
If they want to show some kind of enthusiasm, they should donate to the
orchestra, not piss about with everyone else's experience of the music.
Bursting into noisy applause during a performance of a sound-based art (and
'between movements' is still during the performance) is as witless and
selfish and destructive as would be shouting words after a theatre speech
you liked; putting 'appreciative' paint on someone else's painting, or
throwing tennis balls onto the court during a good match. It's almost as
stupid as the infamous yokel who went on a trip to see a melodrama, and
eventually jumped onto the stage and shot the villain.
It isn't your music. Leave it the fuck alone.
W.
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Kids (you mean 'some kids') don't grok classical music because beyond 3 or 4
emotions, they don't want to be touched or made to feel; beyond 3 or 4
minutes they can't concentrate, beyond 3 or 4 ideas they can't handle the
complexity, and beyond 3 or 4 styles they don't have the required
sensitivity, especially when there aren't words to distract them from the
music.
W.