Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Music with instruments performed off-stage

421 views
Skip to first unread message

Vernon Edwards

unread,
May 1, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/1/95
to

Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
Beethoven: Leonora Overture
Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
Wagner)

Daniel Barolsky

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon

Mahler 1- trumpets

dgb

Daniel G Barolsky
Swarthmore College
dbar...@cc.swarthmore.edu

Robert R. Ramirez

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon Edwards) writes:

> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> Wagner)

There are three I can name offhand: Mahler's 1st, 2nd (which has a whole
slew of offstage instruments) and 3rd symphonies.

Robert Ramirez
Baylor College of Medicine
Houston, Texas
rr69...@bcm.tmc.edu
RR69...@aol.com

Colin 't Hart

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
Edwards) wrote:

> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> Wagner)

There's an aria in the Christmas Oratorio by Bach that has an alto and (I think) and oboe
off stage for echo effects.

Colin
ha...@tartarus.uwa.edu.au

Steve Wang

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
>In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
>Edwards) wrote:

>> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:


I believe Corigliano's Symphony No. 1 has a part for an offstage piano.

-Steve

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Wang The University of Chicago
wa...@galton.uchicago.edu Department of Statistics

Adrian Hunter

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
In article <dbarols2-0...@mac17.marylyonb.swarthmore.edu>, dbar...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Daniel Barolsky) writes:
|> In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
|> Edwards) wrote:

|> > Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
|> > instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
|> >

|> > Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
|> > Beethoven: Leonora Overture
|> > Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
|> > Wagner)
|>

|> Mahler 1- trumpets
|>
|> dgb
|>

Mahler 2, 3 (posthorn?), 8. Walton - Belshazarr's Feast
Britten: War Requiem (children's chorus), etc, etc.

I would be more interested to know of pieces that used non-brass or non-choral
offstage forces.
--
Adrian Hunter Physics Edinburgh University
email: Adrian...@ed.ac.uk
or p92...@cplab.ph.ed.ac.uk

Daniel Massey Debertin

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
: instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

: Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
: Beethoven: Leonora Overture
: Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
: Wagner)

Shoot, there's lots. Mahler's 2nd has offstage horns, trumpets, and
percussion. I think the posthorn in Mahler 3 is offstage. The trumpets
that announce the war scene in R. Stauss' Heldenleben are offstage.
Haydn's "Abschied" symphony in f# minor has each instrument gradually
leave the stage (!), though they don't play offstage. The trumpets in
Fidelio, playing the same call as in Leonore, are also offstage. There
are Stierhorner (stierhorns) offstage in Wagner's Gotterdammerung, the
Siegfried call in Siegfried, which returns in the prelude to
Gotterdammerung, not to mention that wierd horn (Solti uses an alphorn)
used before Hagen fights Siegmund in Walkure, the "tuned anvils" in
Rheingold.
That's all i can think of. Anyone else care to add?
Daniel D.


--

Daniel M. Debertin
Horn Performance major, concordia college
dmde...@gloria.cord.edu
*Never attribute to malice what can be
adequately explained by stupidity*


Mark Schuster

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
In article <dbarols2-0...@mac17.marylyonb.swarthmore.edu>,
dbar...@cc.swarthmore.edu says...

>
>In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
>Edwards) wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>>
>> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
>> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
>> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
>> Wagner)
>
>Mahler 1- trumpets

Respighi Pines of Rome
Mozart Don Giovanni (In most modern productions, played from the pit,
though)
--
Mark Schuster
Viola/Composition Student
DePaul University, Chicago, IL
msch...@wppost.depaul.edu
marks...@aol.com


Charles W Haxthausen

unread,
May 2, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/2/95
to
In article <D7xwG...@midway.uchicago.edu> wa...@johann.uchicago.edu (Steve Wang) writes:
>>In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
>>Edwards) wrote:
>
>>> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>>> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
>

I didn't see your original post, so I don't know which three you ahve
in mind. I can think of three also:

Mahler Symphony No 2
Mahler Symphony No.3
Beethoven, Leonore Overture No. 3

Mark Haxthausen

Mike Quigley

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
I have been to performances of Berlioz' Requiem where there were three
different brass groups "off stage" in the auditorium, but I dunno if
this qualifies it for this thread. Wasn't this piece originally written
to be performed in a church?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shameless plug: My home page -- http://mindlink.net/a4369/mq.html
Lots of cool stuff: X-Files, Zappa, Gould, Beach Boys, Hawaii Five-O!


David Brooks

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon Edwards) writes:
>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage?

During a performance of a Boulez piano sonata (I think it was Boulez) at a
Prom many years ago, the many long fermatas were "decorated" by the brass
warming up for Berlioz in the orchestra den backstage. The Times reviewer
took the opportunity to point out that, while this was inappropriate for
Boulez, Cage would have adored the result.

(every thread leads to 4'33"...)
--
David Brooks, Support Manager dbr...@ics.com
Integrated Computer Solutions <URL:http://www.ics.com/~dbrooks/>
Commit planned giving and daily acts of compassion.

Sam Lorber

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
The oboist in George Crumb's _Ancient Voices of Children_ leaves the
stage and plays from offstage in the last movement.


Matanya Ophee

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com says...

>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

The Hummel Sereneade No. 2, Op. 66 for bassoon, clarinet, guitar, violin and piano
has one section when all the musicians, except the pianist, play off stage.In the
next number, they play a slow march in pianissimo>crescendo while marching back to
their seats, arriveng there at the FFF. Fun to watch.

Matanya Ophee
>
>
>
>


James Scott u

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
I think Prokofiev's "Lieutenant Kije" suite can be performed with an off
stage trumpet.


WilliePitt

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
Not to mention Beethoven's Leonore Overtures #2-3, both of which have
trumpet fanfares played offstage. The trumpeter is supposed to move closer
to the stage for the second one in each overture.
William H. Pittman

Sam Lorber

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
(More about Crumb's _Ancient Voices_...)

Come to think of it, the boy soprano sings from offstage until the
final measures of the piece.


Kevin Powell u

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
: instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
:
: Strauss: An Alpine Symphony

: Beethoven: Leonora Overture
: Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
: Wagner)


Mahler: 2nd Symphony
Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique


Kevin

strasser michael c

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to

On Wed, 3 May 1995, Kevin Powell u wrote:

> Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> :
> : Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> : instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
> :

I know that Ives's 4th uses "distant" instruments, but I can't recall if
they are offstage or not. What about the solo trumpets in Adams's Tromba
Lontana? Are they offstage? Corigliano's Clarinet Concerto calls for
various instruments (brass only?) playing from behind the back and side
doors of the hall.

Regards,
Mike

Vodnik

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
Another Mahler piece that uses an off-stage band briefly is "Das Klagende
Lied", which he wrote when he was 20.

Berlioz uses an off-stage oboe in the Symphonie Fantastique.

And in Ives' "The Unanswered Question", the whole string section is
offstage- at least the one time I actually saw it played.

-Sol Siegel, Philadelphia, PA


CONGREVE

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
You know, of course, about the stage manager who rushed up to the offstage
trumpet player in the Leonore Overture just as he was putting the horn to
his lips, grabbed it from him, and said "You can't play that thing now,
man, there's a concert going on out there!"

Cong...@aol.com

LAWM...@miamiu.bitnet

unread,
May 3, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/3/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon

Edwards) says:
>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage?

There is one movement of "The Planets" by Gustav Holst, with a women's choir
offstage. Another piece I've been fortunate enough to perform publicly. I
think it's "Jupiter." Someone's already mentioned the Britten "War Requiem."

Okay, I've shared enough.
Lisalan
>
>
>
>

Dean Economou

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
Monteverdi's Vespers of 1610 have _voices_ off stage.

Dean.

David Brooks

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
p92...@cplab.ph.ed.ac.uk (Adrian Hunter) writes:
> Mahler 2, 3 (posthorn?), 8. Walton - Belshazarr's Feast

There's nothing offstage in Belshazzar or the Mahler 2/8, unless you mean
the added brass bands. But to me offstage means outside the auditorium, in
a separate space, and remote-sounding. Added bands are often placed
somewhere other than the main stage, but are still well in the forefront
(you may as well include the Berlioz Requiem in this list).

OTOH, the fanfares in the early measures of Mahler 1 are usually played in
a separate room, but that does create a stage management problem; the
players are needed onstage later!

> Britten: War Requiem (children's chorus), etc, etc.

A tricky case: there are three layers of music, and the boys and organ's
"sound should be distant", but it's still not the "behind a half-closed
door" sound.

I think the solo trumpet in Pines of Rome, and the piano in Corigliano's
symphony, qualify. So does the Leonora trumpet. Then there's the chorus
in Planets and the solo soprano in RVW's Sinfonia Antarctica.

Chia Han-Leon

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
Adrian Hunter (p92...@cplab.ph.ed.ac.uk) wrote:

: |> > Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
: |> > instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
: |> >

: |> > Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
: |> > Beethoven: Leonora Overture
: |> > Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
: |> > Wagner)

: |> Mahler 1- trumpets
: Mahler 2, 3 (posthorn?), 8. Walton - Belshazarr's Feast
: Britten: War Requiem (children's chorus), etc, etc.

: I would be more interested to know of pieces that used non-brass or
non-choral : offstage forces.

Leevi Madetoja : Symphony No.2
- 2nd movement has an offstage oboe with horn

In addition, Aulis Sallinen's Sunrise Serenade has an offstage trumpet

Leon

Andrew David Gross

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,

Vernon Edwards <p...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> Wagner)


Verdi: Requiem (trumpets in the balcony)

Berlioz: Romeo and Juliet (off-stage orchestra)

Verdi: La Traviata (the details are fuzzy, but I believe there is a
tenor/soprano duet in which the tenor is off-stage).

andrew


James C Liu

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon Edwards) writes:
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> Wagner)

Ralph Vaughan Williams's Fantasy on a Theme of Thomas Tallis is scored
for three bodies of strings, one of which is a significantly distanced
(and sometimes offstage) second group. PDQ Bach has an echo sonata
with a second group of instruments sitting somewhere in the audience.

--
/James C.S. Liu, MD Pohl's law:
jl...@world.std.com Nothing is so good that somebody, somewhere
Department of Medicine will not hate it.

Dale Gold

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon Edwards) asked:

>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> Wagner)

Prokofieff: Lieutenant Kije
Berlioz: Symphony Fantastique

brass players in the hall:
Verdi: Requiem
Berlioz: Requiem

Dale
--
- dg...@basso.actrix.gen.nz --- Korokoro, New Zealand -
- Principal Double Bass, New Zealand Symphony Orchestra -
<a href="http://www.actrix.gen.nz/users/dgold/">My Home Page</a>
<a href="http://www.actrix.gen.nz/users/dgold/nzso.html">NZSO Page</a>

Patrick Lien

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com says...

>
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
>instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

Mahler Symphony #1, 1st movement - offstage trumpet fanfares
Corigliano, Symphony #1, 1st and 4th movements - offstage piano
Mahler Symphony #8, ends of 1st and 2nd movements - offstage brass choir
Ives - The Unanswered Question - offstage strings (although performances
differ on how exactly this is accomplished)


---------------------------------------------
Patrick Lien
pat...@pcnet.com
pat...@msn.com
http://www.pcnet.com/users/patlien/index.html

Robert Bridson

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

In either Vaughan-Williams' 3rd or 5th, there's an offstage soprano.
The Verdi Requiem has a few offstage trumpets.

--
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
; Robert Bridson --- rebr...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca :
'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`

Daniel Israel

unread,
May 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/4/95
to
In article <3o93ne$q...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, willi...@aol.com (WilliePitt)
writes:

> Not to mention Beethoven's Leonore Overtures #2-3, both of which have
> trumpet fanfares played offstage. The trumpeter is supposed to move
> closer to the stage for the second one in each overture.

I heard a spectacular performance of this by Kurt Masur/NYPO last season. He
put the offstage trumpet in the back, with one of the fourth tier rear doors
left open, to exellent effect...

--
Daniel M. Israel "It is more important to have
<dan...@vega.ame.arizona.edu> beauty in one's equations than
Aerospace Building, University of Arizona to have them fit experiment"
Tucson, AZ -Dirac

Francis Cox

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to
In article <D7xwG...@midway.uchicago.edu>
wa...@johann.uchicago.edu "Steve Wang" writes:

> >In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon


> >Edwards) wrote:
>
> >> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> >> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>
>

> I believe Corigliano's Symphony No. 1 has a part for an offstage piano.
>

q.v. Schnittke's Concerto Grosso No. 5 for Violin, Invisible [=offstage]
Piano and Orchestra. Composed for the centenary of Carnegie Hall,
premiered there in 1991 with Gidon Kremer, Christoph von Dohnanyi, and
the Cleveland Orchestra.

In Mahler's 6th, there is a very interesting contrast between the cow-bells
played in the orchestra in the slow movement, and those played off-stage in
the other movements.

--
Francis Cox ............. fc...@octave.demon.co.uk

Alan D. Hull

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to
As I recall, Respighi's _Pines of Rome_ also uses off-stage trumpets. I heard
it at the Detroit Symphony last year, and 3 or 4 of the trumpet players moved
off-stage before the beginning of the piece, and rejoined the orchestra a
while later.


Regards,
Al
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Al Hull | hu...@a1.eld.ford.com | Cross a crooked lawyer and a crooked
Motown | hu...@ohf.mts.dec.com | politician and you get ----> Chelsea!
area | |
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
"Don't take life too seriously, you won't get out alive."

Warren Mobey

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to

The Planets by Gustav Holst uses a hidden choir.


Mats Bengtsson

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to

An example from earlier music. The "Night-watchman" by
Ignaz Franz Biber is preferably performed with the singer off-stage.
It makes a great effect when, in the middle of a long suite for strings,
somebody starts singing behind the audience.

/Mats B

Robert Bridson

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to
In article <3ob7rh$7...@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>,
Andrew David Gross <jzs...@umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>,

>
>Verdi: La Traviata (the details are fuzzy, but I believe there is a
>tenor/soprano duet in which the tenor is off-stage).

Isn't the Duke offstage in the final scene of Rigoletto (when Rigoletto hears
the Duke singing and realizes a terrible mistake has been made)?

Count Pete

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to
I saw the Unanswered Question played at Woolsey Hall in Yale some (20 or
so) years ago. The strings playing the 'Druid' music were in the
basement, and the sound came through the hot air vents in the floor -- an
outstanding effect!

Eric Kallen

unread,
May 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/5/95
to
In article <D82nI...@world.std.com>, jl...@world.std.com (James C Liu) wrote:

> p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon Edwards) writes:
> > Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> >instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>

Lt. Keji Suite- off-stage trumpet (Prokofiefe)
Aida- off-stage banda (Verdi)
Pines of Rome- off-stage trumpet (Respigi)
Carmen- Children's march- 2nd trumpet- off stage
- Finale- off stage banda

Someone included the Berloiz Symphony Fantastique in this list. I've done
this piece several times and do not recall an off-stage part. The brass
theme in mvt4 could be done off-stage, but the parts do not call for it.

ci...@cts.com

Warren Bond Porter

unread,
May 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/6/95
to
: >In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com (Vernon
: >Edwards) wrote:
: >>
: >>
: >> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
: >> instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
: >>
: >> Strauss: An Alpine Symphony

: >> Beethoven: Leonora Overture
: >> Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
: >> Wagner)
: >
: >Mahler 1- trumpets

: Respighi Pines of Rome
: Mozart Don Giovanni (In most modern productions, played from the pit,
: though)

In the Verdi REquiem, the Tuba Mirum has some echoing trumpets near
the rear of the auditorium.

--
Warren Porter wbpo...@whale.st.usm.edu

Jeanette Griscavage

unread,
May 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/6/95
to

In article <D80BG...@info.uucp>, powe...@mach1.wlu.ca (Kevin Powell u)
wrote:

> Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> :
> : Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> : instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
> :
> : Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> : Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> : Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> : Wagner)
>
>

> Mahler: 2nd Symphony
> Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
>
>
>
>
> Kevin

You,re wrong about the Symphonie Fantastique>.

WilliePitt

unread,
May 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/6/95
to
This is a fascinating thread!

Nielsen's Symphony #2 ("Espansiva") has a tenor and soprano voice singing
offstage in at least the second movement.
William H. Pittman

Dwight Gruber

unread,
May 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/6/95
to
In <3o9dq2$7...@pcnet1.pcnet.com>,
pat...@pcnet.com (Patrick Lien) writes:

> In article <3o3mhn$2...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, p...@ix.netcom.com says...


> >
> > Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> >instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
>

> Mahler Symphony #1, 1st movement - offstage trumpet fanfares
> Corigliano, Symphony #1, 1st and 4th movements - offstage piano
> Mahler Symphony #8, ends of 1st and 2nd movements - offstage brass choir
> Ives - The Unanswered Question - offstage strings (although performances
> differ on how exactly this is accomplished)

This post makes me wonder, do you mean "offstage" = specifically
backastage, or do you accept brass choirs in the balcony, etc.?

--DwightG

--
Dwi...@nesbbx.rain.COM

Francis Cox

unread,
May 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/7/95
to
In article <jeanette-0...@149.142.143.164>

jean...@pharm.medsch.ucla.edu "Jeanette Griscavage" writes:
>
> In article <D80BG...@info.uucp>, powe...@mach1.wlu.ca (Kevin Powell u)
> wrote:
>
> > Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> > :
> > : Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
> > : instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:
> > :
> > : Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
> > : Beethoven: Leonora Overture
> > : Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
> > : Wagner)
> >
> > Mahler: 2nd Symphony
> > Berlioz: Symphonie Fantastique
> >
> > Kevin
>
> You,re wrong about the Symphonie Fantastique>.

At the start of the third movement, Sce`ne aux Champs, the 1st oboe plays
"derrie`re la sce`ne" (behind the stage) for the first 20 bars, and then is
told to return to the orchestra. The musical dialogue with the cor anglais
is to give the effect of shepherd's pipes echoing through a valley.
Obviously, certain orchestral stage setups do not permit the easy entry and
exit of a wind principal, but certainly Berlioz asked for this effect.

Rhabliss

unread,
May 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/7/95
to
How about "The Unanswered Question"?

David Bluestone

unread,
May 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/7/95
to
Britten - Serenade (horn up in the gods at beginning and end)

Ives - The Unanswered Question (with a whole string section off stage!)

Walton - Balshazzar's Feast (a couple of brass bands off stage)

David

Andrea TRAVE

unread,
May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
to

As several persons have pointed out, you have to separate off-stage instru-
ments and instruments that simply are situated in a different part of the
hall.

If I have to restrict myself to the first case only, I would mention:

Respighi: Church Windows - II (trumpet)
Nielsen: Symphony Nr.5 - end of I mvt. (I'm not sure of this, but the sound
of the side drum under the solo clarinet sounds very distant)
Berlioz: Les Troyens - Royal Hunt and Storm (brasses, a really striking
effect)
Benstein: Symph. Nr.2 - end of the Masque (pianino, echoing the preceding
solo of the piano)
Grieg: Peer Gynt - Boyg Scene (organ, bells and choir)
Strauss: Frau ohne Schatten (brasses at the end of the Act II; choir in the
petrification scene in the 3rd Act; Barak and his wife at the
beginning of the Act III)
Mahler: Symph. Nr.3 - I (side drum, at the end of the development)
Symph. Nr.6 - I & IV (bells and cowbells)
Schonberg: Moses und Aron (several instruments, out-stage, above the stage;
voices within the orchestra and off-stage... the spatial factor plays
a fundamental role in this work)
Strauss: Salome (Johanaan's firs notes)
Prokofiev: Romeo and Juliet (in two episodes there is a brass band behind
the scenes)
Ravel: Daphnis et Chloe' - beginning of the Part II (choir, horns & trumpets)

--
Andrea Trave tr...@cibs.sns.it
************ *****************
URL http://sns.it/~trave/
*****************************
"...le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile."
(Henry de Regnier, quoted by Ravel above the score of his "Valses nobles et
sentimentales")


Mike Quigley

unread,
May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
to
Once upon a time, willi...@aol.com (WilliePitt) wrote:

>Nielsen's Symphony #2 ("Espansiva") has a tenor and soprano voice singing
>offstage in at least the second movement.

Methinks that is Symphony #3...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shameless plug: My home page -- http://mindlink.net/a4369/mq.html
Interviews with The Beach Boys, Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd and more!


Rosario Gennaro

unread,
May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
to
If you consider the voice as an instrument then
Berlioz, L'Enfance du Christ
at the end the choir of angel is backstage.

About Corigliano's Symphony no.1, I think the piano is backstageonly during
the first movement. I may be wrong though ...

--Rosario

--
Rosario Gennaro Laboratory for Computer Science
ros...@theory.lcs.mit.edu Massachusetts Institute of Technology
http://theory.lcs.mit.edu/~rosario Cambridge MA 02139

"... la tua loquela ti fa manifesto di quella nobil patria natio ..."
Inf. X

Dwight Gruber

unread,
May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
to
In <D84L...@ucc.su.OZ.AU>,
wmo...@geko.com.au (Warren Mobey) writes:

>
> The Planets by Gustav Holst uses a hidden choir.
>

The choir isn't always hidden.

Also, the choir isn't always *there*. Many years ago I played in an
orchestra in a hall which was too small to hold the orchestra *and* a
choir. The choir part was pre-recorded, and the sections cut together
with leader tape. I ran the tape recorder. I would cue up the tape
section, play it on cue 'til it got to the next leader, cue up the next
section, and wai 'til the next cue.

Actually, it worked out rather well...

--DwightG

--
Dwi...@nesbbx.rain.COM

Lisa Saunders Boffa

unread,
May 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/8/95
to
Also: Leonore Overture #3 (maybe #1, #2, and Fidelio as well) has an
offstage trumpet solo.

Speaking of offstage solos, the orchestra I play in did Lt. Kije in a
concert last week. The offstage trumpet was apparently not soft enough
for the conductor, no matter where the guy stood. Finally he made the
trumpet player go downstairs, into the dressing rooms, and shut the
door! Amazingly the guy came in correctly each time--there must have
been a friend giving him cues!

______________________________________________________________________________
Lisa S. Boffa *** bho...@polysci.umass.edu *** Polymer Science Dept.
University of Massachusetts at Amherst

"That'll be the day" -Buddy Holly
______________________________________________________________________________


Glenn Wayne Sewell Jr

unread,
May 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/10/95
to
WilliePitt (willi...@aol.com) wrote:
: This is a fascinating thread!

: Nielsen's Symphony #2 ("Espansiva") has a tenor and soprano voice singing


: offstage in at least the second movement.

: William H. Pittman


In the final mvt. of The Planets, by Gustav Holst, the female chorus is
supposed to be offstage in a room, and as the voices are dying away the
door to that room is to be slowly shut so it is completely closed at the
end of the piece. Pretty neat idea I think!
GWS


CHEM125

unread,
May 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/10/95
to

Not quite classical, but I saw a performance of The
Theme from "Close Encounters" where flutists were
positioned all around the audience and all played
parts echoing the lead flutist...
It was somewhat spooky and had a very nice effect...

scotty

R. Takken

unread,
May 10, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/10/95
to
Everything Henry Brant did (and does) after 1950. This spatial music is a
treat to experience live. If the hall permits it, audiences sometimes sit in
the middle (the stage).

Repons by Boulez. Four soloists in each corner of the hall,
and the ensemble in the middle is amplified spatially (quadrophonic) too.

Remco Takken


Yakov Horenstein

unread,
May 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/11/95
to
Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:

: Does anyone know of any pieces of music that have various
: instruments performed off-stage? I know of only three, myself:

: Strauss: An Alpine Symphony
: Beethoven: Leonora Overture
: Wagner: Tannhauser (I'm sure that there must be other's by
: Wagner)

Mahler's 3rd
Berloz Requiem
Mozart Don Giovanni

no...@tkyvax.phys.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp

unread,
May 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/11/95
to
Hi, this is Y.Nonomura.

Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> Does anyone know of any pieces of music that
> have various instruments performed off-stage?

I give the most radical examples by XENAKIS:
Terretektorh (1965-66) & Nomos Gamma (1969).
In these pieces, ALL the orchestral members
are off-stage, and SCATTERED INTO AUDIENCE.
--
Y.Nonomura

Dave Hoffman

unread,
May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95
to
> Vernon Edwards (p...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> > Does anyone know of any pieces of music that
> > have various instruments performed off-stage?

Sinfonietta for Concert Band by Ingolf Dahl has an offstage trumpet trio.

Paul Dormer

unread,
May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95
to
> Once upon a time, willi...@aol.com (WilliePitt) wrote:
>
> >Nielsen's Symphony #2 ("Espansiva") has a tenor and soprano voice
> singing
> >offstage in at least the second movement.
>
> Methinks that is Symphony #3...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Shameless plug: My home page -- http://mindlink.net/a4369/mq.html
> Interviews with The Beach Boys, Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd and more!
>
And are they offstage? I'm sure when I've seen it performed, the singers
have been sat in the orchestra. The score says: Die Singstimmen
[illegible] im Hintergrunde. (They use an odd typeface, and I can't make
out the word.) I assume that just means "in the background".

Paul Dormer

unread,
May 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/12/95
to

> Benstein: Symph. Nr.2 - end of the Masque (pianino, echoing the
> preceding
> solo of the piano)

I've been wanting to know this for years. What is a pianino?

David Bluestone

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
> This is a fascinating thread!

No it isn't.

David

David Bluestone

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
> > Methinks that is Symphony #3...

Yup, Symphony #2 is the Four Musketeers, or something.

David

David Bluestone

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
> I've been wanting to know this for years. What is a
> pianino?

It's a small piano.

David

Andrea TRAVE

unread,
May 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/14/95
to
Paul Dormer (pauld...@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
:
: > Benstein: Symph. Nr.2 - end of the Masque (pianino, echoing the
: > preceding
: > solo of the piano)

: I've been wanting to know this for years. What is a pianino?

I don't know precisely, but I think it could be a vertical piano, like the
ones you usually find in a house.

Charles Ehrlich

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
In article <3o695d$k...@hal.cs.depaul.edu>,
Mark Schuster <msch...@wppost.depaul.edu> wrote:

>Mozart Don Giovanni (In most modern productions, played from the pit,
>though)

I think you've got this piece backwards. The instruments in question are
performed _on-stage_ (or should be). ;^) There are oodles of cases of
operas which contain parts for on-stage instruments, Don Giovanni being
only one.

Charles Ehrlich
Wolfson College (Oxford)

Anthony Morton

unread,
May 22, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/22/95
to
In article <ciano-05059...@ciano.cts.com> ci...@cts.com (Eric Kallen) writes:
>Someone included the Berloiz Symphony Fantastique in this list. I've done
>this piece several times and do not recall an off-stage part. The brass
>theme in mvt4 could be done off-stage, but the parts do not call for it.
>
There is an off-stage oboe at the beginning of the third movement. Berlioz
actually calls for it to be 'in the distance', which usually means positioning
it at the back of the auditorium. Last week I was at a performance in
Melbourne where the oboe was positioned in one of the seldom-used boxes on
the Concert Hall's side walls. (This performance also had off-stage bells in
the final movement, although this is not called for in the score.)

Tony Morton
University of Melbourne, Australia


0 new messages