I hate Bel Canto
David Black
Hi,
a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert for
James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc. The
audience was going wild, but it just put me to sleep. I really don't
like the bel canto style of singing, it just seems soppy, sentimental
and BORING. Does anybody else share my opinion?
Brian Newhouse
In article <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au>,
moz...@labyrinth.net.au wrote:
Well, not personally--but I can't say more if you don't tell us what kind
of solo unamplified singing, if any,, you _do_ like.
--
Brian Newhouse
newh...@mail.crisp.net
Sara Freeman
In <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au
(David Black) writes:
>
>Hi,
> a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert for
>James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
>Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc. The
>audience was going wild, but it just put me to sleep. I really don't
>like the bel canto style of singing, it just seems soppy, sentimental
>and BORING. Does anybody else share my opinion?
>
but too much bel canto goes a long way with me also. In opera I like
variety. What opera do you like, and why don't you tell them about it
on rec.music.opera? I am sure you will stir up some stuff among darling
Cecilia's fans.
--
"If you think of reality as the software for the universe,
all it would take is for someone to change a comma in the
program, and the chair you are sitting on wouldn't be a
chair at all."--Jacques Vallee
Margaret Mikulska
In article <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au writes:
>Hi,
> a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert for
>James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
>Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc. The
>audience was going wild, but it just put me to sleep. I really don't
>like the bel canto style of singing, it just seems soppy, sentimental
>and BORING. Does anybody else share my opinion?
"Bel canto" refers to the style of singing in the 18th and *early* 19th C.
Verdi, Mascagni, and Puccini don't belong to it. (Bellini and Donizetti
are regarded as the last bel canto composers.) The style of Mascagni or
Puccini singing is much too weighty to qualify as bel canto, and I'm
actually a bit surprised that you throw, say, Mascagni and Bellini into
the same grab-bag.
It seems that you simply don't like 19th-C Italian opera. That's fine,
but why *hate* it? (How does one hate a piece of music?)
No, I don't find bel canto or Verdi boring, but I'm not particularly
fond of Mascagni.
-Margaret
Terrymelin
I doubt you were watching the Levine Gala. There was very little bel
canto.
Terry Ellsworth, Chicago
lanza
David Black wrote:
>
> Hi,
> a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert for
> James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
> Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc. The
> audience was going wild, but it just put me to sleep. I really don't
> like the bel canto style of singing, it just seems soppy, sentimental
> and BORING. Does anybody else share my opinion?
Not really: it's a question of taste; and Donizetti, for one, is among
the most melodious and entertaining composers (same for Bellini, etc.).
Verdi is in a class by himself. As for several of the others, I don't
think they would easily fall into the Bel Canto category (they belonged
to a school of realism or "truism" called "verismo" and received harsh
criticism for their harsh clangy sounds (unbelievable as it "sounds"
today!). But really, some moments in, for ex., Manon Lescaut by Puccini
musically prefigure Benny Herrmann's clangy film scores (I personally
think Puccini was a huge influence on Herrmann, but I've never seen
documentation to that effect).
So let's hear it from our people out there: would you classify these
composers as bel canto (beautiful song) or verismo (harsh realism)? As
for me, I'll stand by and enjoy! :)
--
************************************************
"Ma quando vien lo sgelo, il primo sole e mio;
il primo bacio dell'aprile e mio!" (MIMI)
************************************************
David Black
On 22 Jan 1997 04:40:43 GMT, miku...@Princeton.EDU (Margaret
Mikulska) wrote:
>"Bel canto" refers to the style of singing in the 18th and *early* 19th C.
>Verdi, Mascagni, and Puccini don't belong to it. (Bellini and Donizetti
>are regarded as the last bel canto composers.) The style of Mascagni or
>Puccini singing is much too weighty to qualify as bel canto, and I'm
>actually a bit surprised that you throw, say, Mascagni and Bellini into
>the same grab-bag.
Yes, I didn't intend to group them all together as representatives of
the same style (Mascagni's _verismo_ style is of course vastly
different from anything that Bellini wrote).
>It seems that you simply don't like 19th-C Italian opera. That's fine,
>but why *hate* it? (How does one hate a piece of music?)
Yeah, okay, wrong choice of verb ;-) It's just that everyone I know
who's into classical music really likes this sort of stuff, and I just
get annoyed when talented opera singers limit themselves to this
repertoire, when there's so much other good operatic material from the
17th and 18th centuries. I should point out that my dislike isn't due
at all to the sometimes contrived plots and characters that these
operas have; after all, I can thoroughly enjoy listening to Aspasia in
Mozart's _Mitridate_ sing about how supposedly unhappy she is while
mouthing off pages of coloratura in C major ;-)
David M Pickering
Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.classical: 22-Jan-97 Re: I hate Bel
Canto by Terry...@aol.com
> canto.
Aside from Ruth Ann Swenson's performance, I can't think of any at all
in the Levine Gala.
Dave
dp...@andrew.cmu.edu
http://www.psy.cmu.edu/~dp3u/dave.html
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The credit belongs to those who are actually in the arena, who strive
valiantly; who know the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and
speed themselves in a worthy cause; who at the best, know the triumph of
high achievement; and who, at the worst, if they fail, fail while daring
greatly, so that their place shall never be with those cold and timid
souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
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Trat Colins
David M Pickering wrote:
>
> Excerpts from netnews.rec.music.classical: 22-Jan-97 Re: I hate Bel
> Canto by Terry...@aol.com
> > I doubt you were watching the Levine Gala. There was very little bel
> > canto.
>
> Aside from Ruth Ann Swenson's performance, I can't think of any at all
> in the Levine Gala.
>
Well, the Cherry duet from L'Amico Fritz sort of could be considered bel
canto. But it really is in the wrong era to be technically considered
bel canto.
In fact, I thought the Levine gala had quite a bit of Wagner. I think
there were a total of one or two PUccini selections and of course one of
those had to be the wonderful In questa reggia slaughtered by Gywneth
Jones.
Personally, I love the Italian repertoire better than any repertoire. I
love Rossini, Donizetti, and Bellini for their style and wonderful
melodies. I love Verdi and Puccini for the sense of the dramatic and
passion. Which, in my opinion, the German repertoire seems to lack. Of
course, that is just my opinion, no need to get upset if you disagree.
But of course, I know many musicologists that look at most of these
Italian composers as second rate hacks. Especially Puccini. Why they
feel that way, I'll never know.
--
Trat Colins' Opera House
Trat Colins, Youngstown, Ohio
http://www.stairway.bc.ca/bjorling
Jussi Rules!!!
David Black
>In article <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au>,
>moz...@labyrinth.net.au wrote:
[snip]
>>I really don't
>> like the bel canto style of singing, it just seems soppy, sentimental
>> and BORING. Does anybody else share my opinion?
>
>Well, not personally--but I can't say more if you don't tell us what kind
>of solo unamplified singing, if any,, you _do_ like.
Anything sung by Emma Kirby, who doesn't have a vibrato a minor 3rd
wide like most 19th century singers (ok, I'm exaggerating). Vocal
music by Monteverdi, Caldara, Bach, Handel, Mozart. The vocal music of
Arvo Part and John Taverner (although that isn't solo vocal).
Lance G. Hill
Speaking of Jorma Hynninen ... try to find his recording of Oskar
Merikanto's songs. They are simply incredible and how wonderfully he sings
them. Why don't we hear more of Mr. Hynninen?
Lance G. Hill, Assistant Sysop,
The Microsoft Network
> Bravo Hynninen! No one else comes near!
David Black
On 22 Jan 1997 20:15:08 GMT, fre...@ix.netcom.com(Sara Freeman)
wrote:
>>In <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au
>>(David Black) writes:
>>
>>Hi,
>> a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert for
>>James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
>>Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc.
[snip]
>>
> What opera do you like, and why don't you tell them about it
>on rec.music.opera? I am sure you will stir up some stuff among darling
>Cecilia's fans.
I like Handel, Monteverdi, Mozart, Haydn, Caldara, Bach, and Beethoven
and choral vocal music. I really like Emma Kirby and that style of
singing. I don't think I'll post this to r.m.opera, as I don't want to
get flamed for daring to question Ms. Bartoli's style of singing ;-)
Sara Freeman
In <32ecfba3...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au
Just because you don't like her style of singing, logically, shouldn't
be taken as a criticism of any particular singers, but we opera
fanatics are often not very logical.
--
Sara Freeman
In <32ecfba3...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au
(David Black) writes:
>
>On 22 Jan 1997 20:15:08 GMT, fre...@ix.netcom.com(Sara Freeman)
>wrote:
>
>>>In <32e557c...@news.labyrinth.net.au> moz...@labyrinth.net.au
>>>(David Black) writes:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>> a couple of weeks ago I watched on TV some anniversary concert
for
>>>James Levine, consisting of aria after aria of Bellini, Donizetti,
>>>Verdi, Charpentier (the 19th century one), Mascagni, Puccini etc.
>[snip]
>>>
>> What opera do you like, and why don't you tell them about it
>>on rec.music.opera? I am sure you will stir up some stuff among
darling
>>Cecilia's fans.
>
>I like Handel, Monteverdi, Mozart, Haydn, Caldara, Bach, and Beethoven
>and choral vocal music. I really like Emma Kirby and that style of
>singing. I don't think I'll post this to r.m.opera, as I don't want to
>get flamed for daring to question Ms. Bartoli's style of singing ;-)
>
Monteverdi I can't remember much about. Haydn's operas are unfamiliar
to me as much as I like his symphonies. Caldara doesn't ring a bell,
offhand.
Kevin
I hate her too.
Sara Freeman
In <01bc0c21$c69467c0$170d2399@default> "Lance G. Hill"
<lance...@msn.com> writes:
>
>Speaking of Jorma Hynninen ... try to find his recording of Oskar
>Merikanto's songs. They are simply incredible and how wonderfully he
sings
>them. Why don't we hear more of Mr. Hynninen?
> Lance G. Hill, Assistant Sysop,
> The Microsoft Network
>
machine behind him. He just goes about his career singing all over the
world doing a wonderful job, but most people say, "Who's he?" Of
course, he hasn't been at the Met for about 5 years, which is really
disappointing. Neither has Van Dam.
Daniel F. Tritter
hate, hate, hate...
have you sufficient time for all that?
I find the kirkby lady to be a very good musician but a non-starter as a
singer, but hate? let's be adults, shall we?
dft
Kevin
It was a joke, and an admittedly bad one too. I meant that I hate Mrs.
B. Canto.
Sorry for the bad humor and the misunderstanding it caused.
HenryFogel
As someone who loves all music, from complex contemporary orchestral
scores to Shostakovich Preludes and Fugues, from Bach cantatas to Wagner
operas, from Mahler symphonies to Brahms chamber music -- and a lot in
between -- I would simply like to say that I think you will miss a great
deal of very beautiful music if you write off the "bel canto" school. It
may well be true that there are many ways in which Mozart plumbed the
human psyche that cannot be found in Bellini and Donizetti, but those
composers too knew a thing about the human animal and its emotional
makeup, and reflected it in the shape of their melodies. I would
recommend starting with Bellini's "Norma", particularly in one of the live
performances by Maria Callas from 1955, and seeing if the score doesn't
move you very deeply.
Henry Fogel