recordings with octobass?
webm...@girljam.no
Looking for recordings (CD) containing octobass. Having a hard time
finding pieces that is written for this instrument. I know that
Berlioz was a huge fan og the instrument, and a wild guess is that
Mahler, Wagner maybe wrote symphonys including this monster bass.
But what I actually are looking for is, as I wrote, recordings with
the instrument.
Peter T. Daniels
What's the English for "octobass"? The mention of Berlioz suggests
that it's an ophicleide? (Where the ophi- suggests it's a descendant
of the serpent.)
Michael Haslam
It appears to be a large-scale string double bass:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octobass
that was championed by Berlioz but, I suspect, not taken up by many
others; certainly Mahler and Wagner never specified its use AFAIK.
By the way, Wagner isn't generally known for writing symphonies.
--
MJHaslam
Remove accidentals to obtain correct e-address
webm...@girljam.no
> Peter T. Daniels <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 4:08 pm, webmas...@girljam.no wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > Looking for recordings (CD) containing octobass. Having a hard time
> > > finding pieces that is written for this instrument. I know that
> > > Berlioz was a huge fan og the instrument, and a wild guess is that
> > > Mahler, Wagner maybe wrote symphonys including this monster bass.
>
> > > But what I actually are looking for is, as I wrote, recordings with
> > > the instrument.
(Where the ophi- suggests it's a descendant
> > of the serpent.)
>
> It appears to be a large-scale string double bass:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octobass
>
> that was championed by Berlioz but, I suspect, not taken up by many
> others; certainly Mahler and Wagner never specified its use AFAIK.
>
> By the way, Wagner isn't generally known for writing symphonies.
> --
> MJHaslam
> Remove accidentals to obtain correct e-address
It's right. It's a large-scale string double bass. Any recordings
where the instrument actually has been used?
Keith Edgerley
--
I may be relatively unprepossessing, but I am somebody's angel child.
<webm...@girljam.no> wrote in message
news:1172821866.3...@z35g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Nicola Moneta, the only person now playing one (originally only three were
built, his is a copy) claims that it was intended to sound an octave below
the double-bass. i.e. the bottom string is tuned to 16.35 Hz. This is also
what I remember from reading Berli0oz's book on instrumentation more years
ago than I care to count.
(Oggi l'Octobasse viene suonato da Nicola Moneta che, unico al mondo,
possiede un esemplare costruito di recente dal Maestro liutaio Pierre Bohr.)
Keith Edgerley
Peter T. Daniels
> > It's right. It's a large-scale string double bass. Any recordings
> > where the instrument actually has been used?
>
> Nicola Moneta, the only person now playing one (originally only three were
> built, his is a copy) claims that it was intended to sound an octave below
> the double-bass. i.e. the bottom string is tuned to 16.35 Hz.
I.e., a 32' organ pipe.
How do you make a stringed instrument do that?
John W. Kennedy
By making the thing about twelve feet tall, so that it requires one
player to finger it (with keys, because the intervals are too wide for
fingers) and another to bow it.
The Wikipedia entry says that the octobass only goes down to CC, which
can be played on a modern extended contrabass. The hideously awkward
design, however, would seem unjustifiable for the gain of a mere major
third. I suspect that Wikipedia may be wrong, and the thing goes down to
CCC. This also tracks with Berlioz' suggestion that a few octobasses be
added to a much larger number of double basses to fill out his ideal
orchestra.
--
John W. Kennedy
"The blind rulers of Logres
Nourished the land on a fallacy of rational virtue."
-- Charles Williams. "Taliessin through Logres: Prelude"
Pete Granzeau
<jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>> On Mar 2, 5:04 am, "Keith Edgerley" <edgerley...@wandoo.fr> wrote:
>>
>>>> It's right. It's a large-scale string double bass. Any recordings
>>>> where the instrument actually has been used?
>>> Nicola Moneta, the only person now playing one (originally only three were
>>> built, his is a copy) claims that it was intended to sound an octave below
>>> the double-bass. i.e. the bottom string is tuned to 16.35 Hz.
>>
>> I.e., a 32' organ pipe.
>>
>> How do you make a stringed instrument do that?
>
>By making the thing about twelve feet tall, so that it requires one
>player to finger it (with keys, because the intervals are too wide for
>fingers) and another to bow it.
>
>The Wikipedia entry says that the octobass only goes down to CC, which
>can be played on a modern extended contrabass. The hideously awkward
>design, however, would seem unjustifiable for the gain of a mere major
>third. I suspect that Wikipedia may be wrong, and the thing goes down to
>CCC. This also tracks with Berlioz' suggestion that a few octobasses be
>added to a much larger number of double basses to fill out his ideal
>orchestra.
It's a good bet that most mature adults are not able to hear 16.35 Hz.
Michael Haslam
And my guess is that low notes on the larger string instruments have
little fundamental tone in their timbre. That would lead me to think
that the octobass _might_ be the same *pitch* as the normal double bass
(apart from the, for Berlioz's time, extra 4 semitones down to C) but a
much more sonorous fundamental tone. Cf the difference between a stopped
16' pedal stop on a pipe organ and an Open Wood or similar. Not just a
difference in volume but a more profound tone.
David
I doubt that you will find commercial CDs of performances using the
octoasse. Perhaps some historical recordings might exist. There are
only two known specimens in existence: one in the museum of the Paris
Conservatoire the other in Vienna.
J.B. Vuillaume of Paris invented this now obsolete instrument in 1849.
It was a 13 feet tall instrument that had three stings tuned C2, G2,
C1. The instrument was fretted and its strings had to be stopped by a
mechanical device, including pedals. An American by the name of John
Geyer created an octobasse in 1889 that was 15 feet tall.
David Sonnenschein
www.anatomyofmusic.com
did Barney@earthlink.net David Gray Porter
be heard or sensed or "tone" by hiumar ears! I heard it at UCLA in '74 (The
Bewtiched) and those low notes kicked ass!
"Michael Haslam" <innat...@macflat.com> wrote in message
news:1hud4nv.14byh05bwtg0yN%innat...@macflat.com...
did Barney@earthlink.net David Gray Porter
downtown L.A. DEFINITELY can be heard by the human ear! Sit in the right
place and you not only hear the original projected tone, you hear the reverb
off the front wall!
"Pete Granzeau" <pgra...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:nesgu2dl8c07mu2i4...@4ax.com...
Peter T. Daniels
Bar...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Another thing -- those 32' pedals in First Congregational Chuch near
> downtown L.A. DEFINITELY can be heard by the human ear! Sit in the right
> place and you not only hear the original projected tone, you hear the reverb
> off the front wall!
Which doesn't exactly inspire confindence in the architect,
acoustician, or organbuilder, whichever was primarily responsible ...
Alpha
"David Gray Porter" <Cheney did Bar...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Ya0Gh.8144$tD2....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
The lower limit of pitch is 20 Hz. This is physiological, considering the
length of the basilar membrane (3.5 cm ca.). However, tones below this
frequency can be heard...they just do not have pitch chroma...clear pitch so
that intervals can be formed. When you get down to these frequencies
critical bandwidth is wider than a perfect fifth.
Keith Edgerley
.76980@8g2000cwh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 1, 4:08 pm, webmas...@girljam.no wrote:
> > Hi
> > Looking for recordings (CD) containing octobass. Having a hard time
> > finding pieces that is written for this instrument. I know that
> > Berlioz was a huge fan og the instrument, and a wild guess is that
> > Mahler, Wagner maybe wrote symphonys including this monster bass.
> >
> > But what I actually are looking for is, as I wrote, recordings with
> > the instrument.
>
> I doubt that you will find commercial CDs of performances using the
> octoasse. Perhaps some historical recordings might exist. There are
> only two known specimens in existence: one in the museum of the Paris
> Conservatoire the other in Vienna.
This website
Gives information about the octobass made for Nicola Moneta and the pieces
he has played on it.
It also mentions CDs.
The site is in Italian. There might be an English version, or perhaps the
little flags on the home page mean that he will accept mail in the relevant
languages. Presumably he will tell anyone interested where they can purchase
the CDs.
Keith Edgerley