Beethoven's Teacher
James T. Kirk
Thanks for your help
Robin Chapman
>
>Does anyone out there know who is Beethoven's teacher ??? is it Haydn ??
>Thanks for your help
>
were Christian Neefe, court organist to the elector in Bonn, under whose
tutelage Beethoven's talents first became known to the local aristocrats;
Johann Schenk, under whom he studied counterpoint and composition in Vienna
(behind Haydn's back); violin from the celebrated violinist Schuppanzigh;
and Johann Georg Albrechtsberger, also counterpoint and music theory. In
fact, though he held Haydn in the highest regard, Beethoven felt he learned
very little from Haydn, because Haydn didn't spend enough time with him,
hence the surreptitious lessons from other teachers.
Robin Chapman
cha...@infi.net
danc...@netcom.com
: cha...@infi.net
___________________________
I also thought Beethovan studied with Sallieri. In fact, it's my
understanding, Beethovan is somewhat responsible for keeping the myth
alive concerning Sallieri killing Mozart (at least this is what some
have found while studying Beethovan's dialogue books.)
--
danc...@netcom.com
Gilbert Tang
Indeed, Beethoven had studied with Salieri, and Salieri's students
include Schubert also. It's interesting that although Salieri fell under
the shadow of Mozart(!) and Haydn, his students were living giants!
Of course, Beethoven studied for a while with the great Mozart, as sent
by somebody from Bonn. Mozart was working furiously on his opera at that
time, so he didn't have time to teach Beethoven. Also, Beethoven's
mother fell ill shortly after his arrival at Vienna, and so he had to
return to Bonn to see her. Beethoven's mother actually died shortly
after Beethoven's return, and so Beethoven never returned to Mozart to
continue his studies. However, there's a famous anecdote about Mozart
realizing Beethoven's talents, when he asked Beethoven to do an
improvisation on one of his (Mozart's) themes. Mozart commented, "Keep
an eye on him. He'll make a noise some day." or something to that effect.
It is interesting to note that although these three classical giants had
actually met each other during the course of their lives, Bach and Handel,
the two Baroque giants, never actually met in person.
I wonder how Baroque music would have transformed if Bach and Handel did
meet together. And how would Beethoven have changed if he were to
continue his studies with Mozart?
Oh, one more thing. I read somewhere that Beethoven actually did not
like Haydn when he was being his student. He said Haydn was not
innovative enough, and when Beethoven wrote the c-? piano trio (one of his
very first compositions) and showed it to Haydn, Haydn advised him not to
publish it. BUT Beethoven thought it was his best work so far. So ...
Um ... I don't know about that, but that's definitely something to keep
in mind.
And of course, Beethoven attended Haydn's last performance of the
Creation, and I think he "kissed" Haydn before Haydn left the theatre (?!)
Gilbert Tang
Harvard University
Kevin Tsai
>I wonder how Baroque music would have transformed if Bach and Handel did
>meet together. And how would Beethoven have changed if he were to
>continue his studies with Mozart?
Urh, the Well-Tempered Watermusic? :)
Kevin
.
James C Liu
>Of course, Beethoven studied for a while with the great Mozart, as sent
>by somebody from Bonn. Mozart was working furiously on his opera at that
>time, so he didn't have time to teach Beethoven. Also, Beethoven's
>mother fell ill shortly after his arrival at Vienna, and so he had to
>return to Bonn to see her. Beethoven's mother actually died shortly
>after Beethoven's return, and so Beethoven never returned to Mozart to
>continue his studies. However, there's a famous anecdote about Mozart
>realizing Beethoven's talents, when he asked Beethoven to do an
>improvisation on one of his (Mozart's) themes. Mozart commented, "Keep
>an eye on him. He'll make a noise some day." or something to that effect.
Double-check your Solomon or your Thayer. Many people have told the
anecdote of Beethoven meeting Mozart, but I don't know of evidence that
Mozart gave Beethoven any lessons. He was planning to study with Mozart,
but his mother's death forced his return to Bonn; by the time he returned,
Mozart was dead and Beethoven had to ... settle for Haydn.
>I wonder how Baroque music would have transformed if Bach and Handel did
>meet together. And how would Beethoven have changed if he were to
>continue his studies with Mozart?
Bach and Handel worked along somewhat different lines, and I'm not
convinced that either would have had a significant influence on the other.
The issue of Beethoven and Mozart is a more interesting one, though, and
one which has been debated here more than once.
>Oh, one more thing. I read somewhere that Beethoven actually did not
>like Haydn when he was being his student. He said Haydn was not
>innovative enough, and when Beethoven wrote the c-? piano trio (one of his
>very first compositions) and showed it to Haydn, Haydn advised him not to
>publish it. BUT Beethoven thought it was his best work so far. So ...
>Um ... I don't know about that, but that's definitely something to keep
>in mind.
Beethoven's style was distinctly different from the style Haydn used,
but then few people indeed could adjust themselves to the serial shocks
that Beethoven provided, starting with the Op. 1 trios, and proceeding
through the 2nd and 4th symphonies (!) down to Op. 131.
>And of course, Beethoven attended Haydn's last performance of the
>Creation, and I think he "kissed" Haydn before Haydn left the theatre (?!)
He paid his respects, as any major musician might have at the Master's
last public appearance.
--
/James C.S. Liu, MD "The lion and the calf shall lie down
jl...@world.std.com together, but the calf won't get much
Department of Medicine sleep."
New England Med Ctr, Boston MA -- Woody Allen, Laws and Proverbs
Jeremy Wayne Owens
: > In article <3g3kpe$f...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu>, vi...@wam.umd.edu (James
: T. Kirk) says:
: > >
: > >Does anyone out there know who is Beethoven's teacher ??? is it Haydn ??
: > >Thanks for your help
: Richard Armour, best known for writing a series of books with pun after
: pun after pun, describes an imaginary situation where Beethoven used to go
: for lessons with Haydn, who didn't like him very much. One day when
: Beethoven came over, Haydn hid behind the couch. When Beethoven came in,
: he asked "Is that you, Haydn?"
: Yes, I know it's a dreadful pun, but it's stuck with me for many years.
: Armour's books contain such so many such puns, that after sneering at the
: first two or three thousand, they start to get to you after awhile, and
: you start laughing.
: -Owen
: --
: Owen Hartnett ow...@ids.net
: "Wagner's music is better than it sounds."
: -Bill Nye
I heard somewhere that Mozart had a hand in his teaching. Don't quote me
on that.
Jeremy