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Placido at 70

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Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 21, 2012, 10:07:25 AM1/21/12
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Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
(not as a stunt) at that age?

JohnGavin

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Jan 21, 2012, 10:32:12 AM1/21/12
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Victoria de los Angeles

Matthew B. Tepper

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Jan 21, 2012, 11:43:33 AM1/21/12
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JohnGavin <dag...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:44f7dd61-3bac-4ca1-8de8-
95034f...@u2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
Tito Schipa.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers

Mark S

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Jan 21, 2012, 11:53:51 AM1/21/12
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There are some who would apply the phrase "you call that singing?" to
what PD has been offering the public over the past 25 years.

I count myself among those.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 21, 2012, 2:42:42 PM1/21/12
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Did you ever encounter the competition?

BTW it's 71 -- I saw 1941 in the Britannica On Line "today's
anniversaries" email and automatically connected it to 2011.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 21, 2012, 2:49:50 PM1/21/12
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On Jan 21, 11:43 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
> to be typed in news:44f7dd61-3bac-4ca1-8de8-
> 95034f396...@u2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Jan 21, 10:07 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
> >> singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
> >> Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
> >> (not as a stunt) at that age?
>
> > Victoria de los Angeles

WP mentions the 1972 Barcelona Olympics (68); that counts as a stunt.

> Tito Schipa.

WP: "Although he undertook concert engagements until 1962, Schipa
retired from the operatic stage in 1958" (i.e., aet. 69, given the 27
December birthday)

wkasimer

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Jan 21, 2012, 3:09:02 PM1/21/12
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On Jan 21, 10:07 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
> (not as a stunt) at that age?

Mark Reizen.

Bill

JohnGavin

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Jan 21, 2012, 3:50:20 PM1/21/12
to
On Jan 21, 2:49 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Jan 21, 11:43 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > JohnGavin <dagd...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
> > to be typed in news:44f7dd61-3bac-4ca1-8de8-
> > 95034f396...@u2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > On Jan 21, 10:07 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >> Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
> > >> singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
> > >> Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
> > >> (not as a stunt) at that age?
>
> > > Victoria de los Angeles
>
> WP mentions the 1972 Barcelona Olympics (68); that counts as a stunt.
>
No - she sang at the 1992 Olympics at age 70. Here it is on YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRsUMqZgvcA

It doesn't sound like a stunt to me.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 21, 2012, 11:54:35 PM1/21/12
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Sorry, 1992. (1972 was Munich.) Did WP give her a false birth year?

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRsUMqZgvcA
>
> It doesn't sound like a stunt to me.-

What was her performance schedule preceding and following that
appearance?

Joan Sutherland also retired before she "had to": in her last Chicago
appearances -- *Anna Bolena* -- she was very, very good, but was not
quite Dame Joan any longer.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 22, 2012, 12:01:38 AM1/22/12
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A new name to me. However:

He retired in 1954, aet. 58 or 59.

"In 1967 he began teaching, and became a professor at the Moscow
Gnessin Institute. He gave an important recital for his 80th
anniversary, and for his 90th sang Prince Gremin (in Eugene Onegin) at
the Bolshoi in Moscow in July 1985. On both occasions his voice proved
to be in a remarkable state of preservation." --WP

That is _certainly_ a "stunt." (And a very minor role -- one aria and
out -- Ghiaurov sang it a couple of times in Chicago when he was in
town for some major part.)

Speaking of Lyric Opera basses, next Saturday's Met broadcast will
feature Paul Plishka's farewell performance -- as the Sacristan in
Tosca. What a waste! In Chicago he was Boris and such leading roles
many times, but he was never appreciated in New York, only a minor
player for 47 years.

wkasimer

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Jan 22, 2012, 12:11:21 AM1/22/12
to
On Jan 22, 12:01 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
.
Re Reizen:

> "In 1967 he began teaching, and became a professor at the Moscow
> Gnessin Institute. He gave an important recital for his 80th
> anniversary, and for his 90th sang Prince Gremin (in Eugene Onegin) at
> the Bolshoi in Moscow in July 1985. On both occasions his voice proved
> to be in a remarkable state of preservation." --WP
>
> That is _certainly_ a "stunt.".

Perhaps. But listen to this recording of Tchaikovsky songs:

https://rapidshare.com/files/18482011/tchaikovsky_reizen_stereo.zip

Reizen recorded this when he was 78.

Bill


Ward Hardman

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Jan 22, 2012, 7:50:21 AM1/22/12
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Magda Olivero:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magda_Olivero

(Is she still alive? If so, she'll be 102 on March 25, 2012. ;-)

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence,
just simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

Angelotti

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Jan 22, 2012, 8:02:23 AM1/22/12
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Alfred Jerger, see:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Jerger

Hvfdlinden

Angelotti

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Jan 22, 2012, 8:05:39 AM1/22/12
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On 21 jan, 16:07, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
Maybe better known:
Rita Gorr, see:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Gorr
Hvdlinden

JohnGavin

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Jan 22, 2012, 9:31:53 AM1/22/12
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I think it's a given that any soprano voice won't be at 70 what it was
at 35 or 40.
But, as I'm sure you know, some singers last because they mature
interpretively and sometimes that more than makes up for the loss of
sheen and smoothness of the vocal mechanism.

De Los Angeles went downhill as evidenced by her recordings of Songs
of the Auvergne Vol. 2 (in the mid 70s), but then she found herself
somehow and sang very well again into the 90s.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Jan 22, 2012, 2:00:29 PM1/22/12
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Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:d5a70e7c-1aba-4338-9977-e8ba85bae897
@k28g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
At least you simply express your opinion, rather than making an extended rant
of it as several denizens of the rec.music.opera cesspool did for many years.
(And if anybody knows how to rant, it would be me.)

Matthew B. Tepper

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Jan 22, 2012, 2:00:30 PM1/22/12
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wkasimer <wkas...@comcast.net> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:63361b62-30e2-49bf-bc8b-
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Giacomo Lauri-Volpi recorded an LP of opera arias when he was about 80. I
bought it, out of curiosity. It was terrible.

wkasimer

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Jan 22, 2012, 2:39:10 PM1/22/12
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On Jan 22, 2:00 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
.
> > Reizen recorded this when he was 78.

> Giacomo Lauri-Volpi recorded an LP of opera arias when he was about 80.  I
> bought it, out of curiosity.  It was terrible..

Reizen at 78 was anything but terrible...

Bill

Mark S

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Jan 22, 2012, 2:38:30 PM1/22/12
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On Jan 22, 11:00 am, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
> Giacomo Lauri-Volpi recorded an LP of opera arias when he was about 80.  I
> bought it, out of curiosity.  It was terrible.
>

But it sounds great on SHM disc, IF you have a $150,000 audiophile
system and IF - most important - you have a green magic marker handy.

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 22, 2012, 6:41:01 PM1/22/12
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Please note that the question was not, Who once made a recording at a
very advanced age?

but

Who (besides Hughes Cuenod) has maintained as extensive a performing
schedule as Placido Domingo while in their 70s?

Peter Pears did the entire run of Death in Venice in the 1972-3 or
1973-4 season at the Met, when he was in his late 60s.

wkasimer

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Jan 22, 2012, 9:35:23 PM1/22/12
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On Jan 22, 6:41 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:

> Who (besides Hughes Cuenod) has maintained as extensive a performing
> schedule as Placido Domingo while in their 70s?

Probably no one. Domingo's been providing the same generic
performances for longer than anyone else - I suspect that anyone else
would have died of boredom by now.

Although he announced his retirement several years ago, Robert Lloyd,
72, is still singing, as recently as January at Covent Garden, where
he sang the Nightwatchman in Meistersinger. I heard him as Rocco a
couple of years ago, and he sounded quite good.

Bill

Mark S

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Jan 22, 2012, 11:12:45 PM1/22/12
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On Jan 22, 6:35 pm, wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Jan 22, 6:41 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Who (besides Hughes Cuenod) has maintained as extensive a performing
> > schedule as Placido Domingo while in their 70s?
>
> Probably no one.  Domingo's been providing the same generic
> performances for longer than anyone else - I suspect that anyone else
> would have died of boredom by now.

Hah! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Jan 22, 2012, 11:45:00 PM1/22/12
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Mark S <markst...@yahoo.com> appears to have caused the following letters
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@j15g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
*chuckle*

Gerard

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Jan 23, 2012, 6:01:30 AM1/23/12
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Peter T. Daniels <gram...@verizon.net> typed:
> On Jan 22, 2:39 pm, wkasimer <wkasi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Jan 22, 2:00 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > .
> >
> > > > Reizen recorded this when he was 78.
> > > Giacomo Lauri-Volpi recorded an LP of opera arias when he was
> > > about 80. I bought it, out of curiosity. It was terrible..
> >
> > Reizen at 78 was anything but terrible...
>
> Please note that the question was not, Who once made a recording at a
> very advanced age?
>
> but
>
> Who (besides Hughes Cuenod) has maintained as extensive a performing
> schedule as Placido Domingo while in their 70s?
>

Maybe Johannes Heesters.
I don't know about his schedule, but he was still performing when 107 years old.
He did last year (108 years old), after 90 years of performing.

Charles H. Sampson

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Jan 23, 2012, 12:19:34 PM1/23/12
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Didn't Alfredo Kraus sing into his 70's pretty well, sticking to
his well-chosen repertoire?

Charlie
--
Nobody in this country got rich on his own. You built a factory--good.
But you moved your goods on roads we all paid for. You hired workers we
all paid to educate. So keep a big hunk of the money from your factory.
But take a hunk and pay it forward. Elizabeth Warren (paraphrased)

Peter T. Daniels

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Jan 23, 2012, 3:07:13 PM1/23/12
to
On Jan 23, 12:19 pm, csamp...@inetworld.net (Charles H. Sampson)
wrote:
> Peter T. Daniels <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
> > singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
> > Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
> > (not as a stunt) at that age?
>
>      Didn't Alfredo Kraus sing into his 70's pretty well, sticking to
> his well-chosen repertoire?

There was certainly no hint during his last season at Chicago that he
was about to retire. But the administration changed from Carol Fox,
who was obsessed with his specialty, the French romantics (Massenet
almost every year!), to Ardis Krainik, who had a much more eclectic
approach. The theater is named for Ardis, not for Carol.)

However -- If WP is correct, he was only 71 when he died in 1999, and
that was long after his Chicago days. His last Met appearance, it
says, was in 1994.

eusebius

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Feb 1, 2012, 4:39:30 AM2/1/12
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On Jan 22, 1:07 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
> singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
> Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
> (not as a stunt) at that age?

Florence Foster Jenkins

William Sommerwerck

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Feb 1, 2012, 4:42:06 AM2/1/12
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"eusebius" <euseb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:16325760-9cbc-42de...@kn4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Where do you draw the line between "stunt" and "joke"?

There are stories that FFJ was a mean-spirited b****, and was fully aware of
how poor a singer she was.


Peter T. Daniels

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Feb 1, 2012, 7:49:59 AM2/1/12
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On Feb 1, 4:42 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> "eusebius" <eusebiu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
The way Andy Karzas put it, she was not in command of her senses and
was manipulated and used by her accompanist, Cosmo McMoon (is that an
actual name?) for his own profit. How "regularly" did she perform?

Angelotti

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Feb 1, 2012, 6:04:44 AM2/1/12
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On 1 feb, 10:42, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> "eusebius" <eusebiu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Apparently she was not always a bitch:

After a taxicab crash in 1943 she discovered that she could sing "a
higher F than ever before", and sent the cab driver a box of expensive
cigars

from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Foster_Jenkins

Hvdlinden

Steven Bornfeld

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Feb 1, 2012, 11:58:04 AM2/1/12
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Interesting material:

http://collaborativepiano.blogspot.com/2008/10/interview-with-cosme-mcmoon.html


The claim that McMoon was actually Edwin McArthur is claimed to be false
in the wiki article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_McArthur

The whole FFJ situation seems to have outlived its "sell-by" date.
However, I can imagine that I'm deriving some of the same feelings of
superiority and good taste in my visceral reactions to the Republican
presidential campaign. It feels good, but I doubt it's healthy.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Matthew B. Tepper

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Feb 1, 2012, 4:10:33 PM2/1/12
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Steven Bornfeld <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> appears to have caused the
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I'd like to see someone (obviously with more time and skill than I have,
and the money to buy the danged program in the first place) would take some
of the Florence Foster Jenkins recordings and repitch them properly using
AutoTune. Or has somebody done this already?

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!!
Read about "Proty" here: http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/proty.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of my employers.

Peter T. Daniels

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Feb 1, 2012, 5:50:52 PM2/1/12
to
On Feb 1, 4:10 pm, "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Steven Bornfeld <bornfeldm...@dentaltwins.com> appears to have caused the
> following letters to be typed innews:jgbqup$4ru$1...@dont-email.me:
> > On 2/1/2012 7:49 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>
> >> The way Andy Karzas put it, she was not in command of her senses and
> >> was manipulated and used by her accompanist, Cosmo McMoon (is that an
> >> actual name?) for his own profit. How "regularly" did she perform?
>
> >      Interesting material:
>
> >http://collaborativepiano.blogspot.com/2008/10/interview-with-cosme-m...
> > n.html
>
> > The claim that McMoon was actually Edwin McArthur is claimed to be false
> > in the wiki article:

Cosmé?? Even more unlikely. Would've worked better for Kramer, though.

> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_McArthur
>
> >      The whole FFJ situation seems to have outlived its "sell-by" date.
> > However, I can imagine that I'm deriving some of the same feelings of
> > superiority and good taste in my visceral reactions to the Republican
> > presidential campaign.  It feels good, but I doubt it's healthy.
>
> I'd like to see someone (obviously with more time and skill than I have,
> and the money to buy the danged program in the first place) would take some
> of the Florence Foster Jenkins recordings and repitch them properly using
> AutoTune.  Or has somebody done this already?

Are there _no_ limits to its capabilities?

laraine

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Feb 1, 2012, 9:20:57 PM2/1/12
to
Perhaps she was playing the comedienne,
(or should have been) and thought that if
she admitted it, the effect.would be lost.

C.

Matthew B. Tepper

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Feb 2, 2012, 1:57:59 AM2/2/12
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laraine <lara...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following letters
to be typed in news:6d3e8a76-8670-4b25-bd86-0df280f2e5b9
@dp8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> On Feb 1, 5:04 am, Angelotti <linden...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 1 feb, 10:42, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "eusebius" <eusebiu...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:16325760-9cbc-42de-842b-
0ce69c...@kn4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com..
> .
>> > On Jan 22, 1:07 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > >> Placido Domingo will observe his 70th birthday this afternoon by
>> > >> singing Neptune in the broadcast of the Met mess "The Enchanted
>> > >> Island." Who besides Hughes Cuenod has continued to sing regularly
>> > >> (not as a stunt) at that age?
>> > > Florence Foster Jenkins
>>
>> > Where do you draw the line between "stunt" and "joke"?
>>
>> > There are stories that FFJ was a mean-spirited b****, and was fully
>> > aware of how poor a singer she was.
>>
>> Apparently she was not always a bitch:
>>
>> After a taxicab crash in 1943 she discovered that she could sing "a
>> higher F than ever before", and sent the cab driver a box of expensive
>> cigars
>>
>> from:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Foster_Jenkins
>>
>> Hvdlinden
>
>
> Perhaps she was playing the comedienne, (or should have been) and thought
> that if she admitted it, the effect would be lost.
>
> C.

Margaret Dumont cultivated an image as a stately, humorless prig (in her
movies with the Marx Brothers most of all), but Simon Louvish, in his 1999
book Monkey Business: The Lives and Legends of the Marx Brothers, reveals
that the actress, born Daisy Juliette Baker, began her career as a showgirl
and comedienne. She married into the 400 and had to learn the ways of
being a grande dame in society, and when she was widowed she returned to
show business and made her career playing the type of person she had had to
pretend to be. Makes sense to me.

--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!

Kip Williams

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Feb 2, 2012, 8:32:26 AM2/2/12
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:

> Margaret Dumont cultivated an image as a stately, humorless prig (in her
> movies with the Marx Brothers most of all), but Simon Louvish, in his 1999
> book Monkey Business: The Lives and Legends of the Marx Brothers, reveals
> that the actress, born Daisy Juliette Baker, began her career as a showgirl
> and comedienne. She married into the 400 and had to learn the ways of
> being a grande dame in society, and when she was widowed she returned to
> show business and made her career playing the type of person she had had to
> pretend to be. Makes sense to me.

Margaret and Groucho in "Hooray for Captain Spaulding,"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWQqFB4ECI

She died a couple of days after this was filmed for "Hollywood Palace."
A fitting send-off.


Kip W


Matthew B. Tepper

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Feb 2, 2012, 10:36:28 AM2/2/12
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Kip Williams <mrk...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
letters to be typed in news:GfwWq.7404$236....@newsfe03.iad:
Yes, and it utterly puts paid to Groucho's oft-repeated claim that she
never understood what was so funny about their acts. Either she managed to
fool Groucho into thinking that, or she got him to keep her "secret" even
after her death; either way, that's an impressive achievement!

Kip Williams

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Feb 2, 2012, 10:52:04 AM2/2/12
to
Matthew B. Tepper wrote:
> Kip Williams<mrk...@gmail.com> appears to have caused the following
> letters to be typed in news:GfwWq.7404$236....@newsfe03.iad:
>
>> Margaret and Groucho in "Hooray for Captain Spaulding,"
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlWQqFB4ECI
>>
>> She died a couple of days after this was filmed for "Hollywood Palace."
>> A fitting send-off.
>
> Yes, and it utterly puts paid to Groucho's oft-repeated claim that she
> never understood what was so funny about their acts. Either she managed to
> fool Groucho into thinking that, or she got him to keep her "secret" even
> after her death; either way, that's an impressive achievement!

Recent writings on the topic indicate that it's something he said that
wasn't necessarily true. It's sad to think that Joe Adamson's account in
_Groucho, Harpo, Chico, and Sometimes Zeppo_ is wrong on some accounts.

I need a copy of that book that isn't falling apart.


Kip W

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