English composers from the Victorian era....

[Peggy Toller]

Can someone give me a some examples of English composers from the
Victorian era? I am new to the world of classical music, and I love the
Victorian era, so, I thought it would be wonderful to combine them!!!

The most beautiful piece I have ever heard is Pachel Bel's Canon in D,
it's just so romantic and heavenly, are there any other pieces that have
this sort of sound to them?

Thank you so very much!!!

Warmest regards, Peggy

[vertigo]

Peggy Toller wrote:

Try Sullivan, of Gilbert & Sullivan fame (or should I say, notoriety?).
Also, for Pachelbel clone music, try (Samuel) Barber's Adagio for Strings.

--
*************************************
"Mon metier et mon art, c'est vivre!"
MONTAIGNE
*************************************

[JohnLFryer]

I would recommend STANFORD, whose symphonies and clarinet concerto are well
worth investigating. Some would say his best music is his choral music and
there are some beautiful motets (sacred works for unaccompanied chorus).
Another fine composer was PARRY, who is greatly neglected these days but is
music his very English, and typically Victorian. PARRY and STANFORD were
also important in the development of the English Church Music tradition and as
teachers, as they taught at the London conservatoires.
An even more neglected composer, unjustly so in my view, is STERNDALE BENNETT,
who wrote some quite attractive music, particularly for the piano. On looking
him up, I see his music was much praised by SCHUMANN.
Some would say ELGAR is a Victorian composer, but he did not really become
prominent until the 20th Century.
Mention of Gilbert and Sullivan should not stop you looking at the other works
of SULLIVAN, which show him to be a more "serious" composer than is often
thought.
regards
John L Fryer

[Carter@marcopolo26.freeserve.co.uk John Carter]

English music of the period leaned strongly upon German music Parry is
rather like Schumann or Brahms.Chandos and Naxos. Stanford is again Brahms
influenced but with Irish overtones. Again Chandos and Naxos.
Sterndale Bennett is a must, The Overtures are not available but should be
as part of the Naxos coverage. The Piano Concerti were on Lyrita, Try to
find them though Naxos plans to do them. The symphony is recorded I think on
Unicorn but again Naxos should cover it.There are several recordings of the
Stanford Clarinet Concerto. I have the Unicorn.
Harty also Irish , one disc Chandos, Irish Symphony, etc
Sterndale Bennetts Piano music is a must. Three volumes Marco Polo.
now for rare treats. Cowens Third Symphony with "Butterflys Ball" etc on
Marco Polo.I await their doing the "Welsh" symphony in vain.
Edward German several discs on Marco Polo Norwich Symphony, Nell Gwyn,
Gipsy suite.
Sullivan. The Irish symphony is available again on a single disc from EMI.
Early Ballet music Victoria and Merry England, another disc of ballets and
two of incidental music all on Marco Polo.
Archibald Joyce, the waltz king of the Crystal Palace. with touches of the
old empire. Marco Polo British Light Music.
A popular German disc in the same series.
Ketelbey. Some more of the beaten path numbers and two volumes of Piano
Music also on Marco Polo
Victorian Concert Overtures Hyperion
Edward German one disc of piano music also on Marco Polo
York Bowen is just about Victorian. Piano music on Hyperion
Holbrooke just makes it as well Celtic Twilight.
Marco Polo again. Symphonic poems mostly after Poe and The Birds of Rhiannon
etc, not to be missed.
Rutland Boughton, third Symphony on Hyperion, also opera "the Immortal Hour"
I think that is enough for now.
John Carter Barsoom.
Peggy Toller wrote in message
<28603-385...@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...

[Dave Hurwitz]

Dear Peggy:

I think you're going to get a lot of advice, more than you can use. The fact
is that English music from the Victorian period had one noteworthy composer,
and only one: Sullivan, of Gilbert and Sullivan fame. All of the other
composers you have seem mentioned: Standord, Parry, Sterndale-Bennett etc,
are really marginal figures whose music is interesting to classical music
experts and fans, but not really to new listeners just discovering the
classics. This is because their style is highly imitative of German music of
the period, particularly Mendelssohn and Brahms. The sad fact is that
England had no uncontroversially great composers after Handel until this
century, when Elgar got the ball rolling for them again. The great composers
of the Victorian era were not English, and even in England the popularity of
Verdi, Dvorak, Gounod, Tchaikovsky, and Brahms greatly eclipsed that of the
native English composers.

Also, if you love Pachelbel's Canon, it seems to me that you are asking
either for music of the Baroque period (the Pachelbel was written more than
a 100 years before the Victorian era), or similar music for string
orchestra. It just so happens that many masterpieces for strings were
written during the Victorian period, or just after, many by English and
non-English composers. Here is a list of them:

Dvorak: Serenade for Strings
Tchaikovsky: Serenade for Strings
Vaughan-Williams: Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis (maybe the most
beautiful string piece of all)
Elgar: Serenade for Strings
Grieg: Holberg Suite for String Orchestra (there's also a solo piano
version)
Suk: Serenade for Strings
Albinoni: Adagio
Mozart: Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (A Little Night Music)
Elgar: Introduction and Allegro for String Quartet and String Orchestra
Vaughan-Williams: The Lark Ascending
Vaughan-Williams: Five Variants of "Dives and Lazarus"
Vaughan-Williams: Fantasia on Greensleeves
Holst: St. Paul's Suite

Finally, however much you like the Victorian period, the true English sound
of this era is not found in classical music at all, but in popular songs and
tunes from shows, including Gilbert and Sullivan. I suspect that if you were
to start getting heaps of Stanford, Parry, and the like, you would not hear
anything especially "Victorian," and you would also be bored with music
which is really not all that interesting on its face. I strongly suggest
that the above list is more in keeping with what you are listening to now,
and what you think you would like to hear. And all of it is by composers of
virtually unquestioned greatness.
--
David Hurwitz
Executive Editor
ClassicsToday.com
http://www.classicstoday.com
dhur...@classicstoday.com
John Carter <John Car...@marcopolo26.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8318ea$v2$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...

[Mark and Gill Tennant]

In article <19991212153804...@ngol02.aol.com>,
johnl...@aol.comnogo (JohnLFryer) wrote:

> Another fine composer was PARRY, who is greatly neglected these
> days but is music his very English, and typically Victorian.

Being a Welshman I have to object to that remark since Joseph Parry was
*Welsh* NOT /English/ - apart from that slight niggle I would agree that
he is an excellent choice as a *British* composer.
Of the others 3 out of 4 are English (Stanford was born in Dublin).

/\/\ark ~|~ennant
(to send a personal reply remove ".nospam")

[Peggy Toller]

I want to thank you everyone very very much for all of your wonderful
help, I will be checking into all of these composers right away, and I
think I will enjoy them all immensely!!!!!! Thank you so much!!!

Warmest regards, Peggy

[Peter Stoll]

Dave Hurwitz schrieb:

> ..... All of the other

> composers you have seem mentioned: Standord, Parry, Sterndale-Bennett etc,
> are really marginal figures whose music is interesting to classical music
> experts and fans, but not really to new listeners just discovering the
> classics. This is because their style is highly imitative of German music of

> the period, particularly Mendelssohn and Brahms. .....

With respect to Hubert Parry, the only one of the above mentioned composers I
really know, I can only say that I must protest. I admit that I myself came
comparatively late to appreciate Parry, but that was mainly due to the relative
scarcity of recordings, and when I first listened to 2nd symphony (Naxos) it was
a most agreeable surprise; indeed, it was one of the not all that frequent
experiences that I thought, well, here's someone you've never heard of before
after years of listening to classical music, but who isn't just a pleasant
marginal note to the history of music. I found that much of what I'd hitherto
labelled as typically Elgarian tone was already there in Parry' music; and
though I realize that he's probably dependent to some extent on Brahms,
'imitative' seems somewhat exaggerated. Thus, though Parry isn't essential
listening for newcomers who want to get a fair idea of the established canon, no
one interested in 19th century music and appreciative of, say, Elgar, should be
put off.

Peter

>

[David Samuel Barr]

Mark and Gill Tennant wrote:
>
> In article <19991212153804...@ngol02.aol.com>,
> johnl...@aol.comnogo (JohnLFryer) wrote:
>
> > Another fine composer was PARRY, who is greatly neglected these
> > days but is music his very English, and typically Victorian.
>
> Being a Welshman I have to object to that remark since Joseph Parry
> was *Welsh* NOT /English/ - apart from that slight niggle I would
> agree that he is an excellent choice as a *British* composer.

Mr Fryer was clearly referring to Sir Charles Hubert Hastings Parry (of
"Jerusalem" fame), not Joseph Parry.

[vertigo]

Stanford.

[Juan I. Cahis]

Dear Friends:

Well, I disagree. I found Parry's and Stanford Symphonies (on the
Chandos sets) one of the most astonishing discoveries on unjustly
forgotten great music I did in the last two years.

I will add of that category Bruch's Odysseus (on Koch) and Gernsheim's
Symphonies (on Arte Nova).

Of course, these are only personal opinions.

"Dave Hurwitz" <sce...@erols.com> wrote:

Thanks
Juan I. Cahis
Santiago de Chile (South America)
Email: jic...@ibm.net
Note: Please forgive me for my bad English, I am trying to improve it!

[Phil]

I still find it difficult to accept Handel as English - like Geminiani or JC
Bach perhaps?

And yes English composers of the 18th century before Elgar are relatively
minor figures - but still interesting. One not mentioned so far as I can see
in this thread is Sir Alexander MacKenzie - a bit of a British (note not
English) Bruch in that he wrote Violin works for Joachim and Sarasate
(Pibroch Suite - great fun). CD available on Hyperion.

Phil

Dave Hurwitz <sce...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:831q82$bio$1...@autumn.news.rcn.net...

[David L. Quinlan]

What about Havergal Brian? And while we're at it how do i correctly spell the
newsgroup for classical phonograph records and/ or/ CD's? This info is
carefully hidden is seemeth to me. REgards David Quinlan Roseland new jersey.,
Thank you.

[Phil]

Although born in 1876 Brian is hardly Victorian - most of his work is from
the 1930s to 60s.

Phil

David L. Quinlan <Pou...@hicom.net> wrote in message
news:385C2F70...@hicom.net...

[aldou...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 11, 1999 at 3:00:00 AM UTC-5, Peggy Toller wrote:
> Can someone give me a some examples of English composers from the
> Victorian era? I am new to the world of classical music, and I love the
> Victorian era, so, I thought it would be wonderful to combine them!!!
>
> The most beautiful piece I have ever heard is Pachel Bel's Canon in D,
> it's just so romantic and heavenly, are there any other pieces that have
> this sort of sound to them?
>
> Thank you so very much!!!
>
> Warmest regards, Peggy

Please be aware that Mozart is not a Victorian composer. The same could be said of Vaughan Williams, who, although born in the late Victorian era, did not publish any music until 1902. Queen Victoria died in 1901. Vaughan Williams was a hybrid of modernist and romantic, if any category needs to be applied - with a powerfully lyrical temperament. Absolutely beautiful music, but not Victorian, per se. There may be some 'Victorian' influence to his early music - but it's hard to define a particular style of 'serious' or symphonic Victorian music. As has been pointed out, there were few British (or Welsh, Irish, etc.)Victorian composers to gain any real influence during her long, long reign. European composers (Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, Robert Schumann) dominated Western orchestral music of the time. Sir Edward Elgar published his Enigma Variations in 1899, and is thought of as quintessentially British, although he was strongly influenced by European composers. All in all, I would go to continental composers of Victoria's era, to Elgar, to Gilbert and Sullivan, and to Vaudeville songs, if you are looking for the kind of music that was most popular throughout the Victorian era, from the upper classes through to the so-called lower classes.

[John W Kennedy]

Don't forget Balfe.

If, by "Victorian", the original poster merely means "19th-century",
then there are gazillions of possibilities, from Beethoven on. A couple
of less known possibilities that have been revelations to some people
are "Má Vlast", by Smetana (the tight canons make a neat gateway to the
Romantic for Bach fans) and Boito's "Mefistofele", which has the
remarkable characteristic, for an Italian opera, of being actually
about something.

--
John W Kennedy
"Never try to take over the international economy based on a radical
feminist agenda if you're not sure your leader isn't a transvestite."
-- David Misch: "She-Spies", "While You Were Out"

[Peter T. Daniels]

Since the original poster, 15 years ago, 's "favorite composer" was Pachel
Bel, it's unlikely that she was interested in anything "Victorian" -- or
"classical" -- at all. _Any_ classical selection that somehow got airplay on
pop stations (back then) or on the various "Talent" shows (today) becomes a
"favorite." Primarily dreck like "Pachelbel's" Canon, "Albinoni's" Adagio,
and Gorecki's "Third Symphony." (You should have seen the despair when flocks
of people who'd never been to a concert before showed up at a Grant Park
Symphony concert and discovered they actually had to sit through an entire
orchestral program, and then half of another work, to get to the three
minutes of lugubrious mezzo-soprano that had been presented to them as
"Gorecki's Third Symphony.") (Not to mention the first, and hopefully last,
time the Lyric Opera of Chicago chorus and the Chicago Symphony Chorus
appeared together -- in the largest church in Chicago -- to moan through
Gorecki's "Miserere." The place was packed, and the result was even published
on CD.) (I was there because I wanted to hear two of the finest large choral
ensembles in the world combined, but the acoustic was lousy and I didn't know
what the music would be like.)