Morbid question about Glenn Gould
Sir Hans
Could someone supply the gruesome details?
Hans,
--
Sir Hans d...@fwi.uva.nl
Upon my word it makes my blood boil to hear anyone compare
Aristotle with Plato.---James Joyce, _Ulysses_ (1922) p. 238
Gareth McCaughan
> I've been wondering for quite a while now what Glenn Gould died of.
> Could someone supply the gruesome details?
He had a stroke, at the age of 50. His circulatory system had always been
a bit dodgy, but I don't think the vast quantities of assorted medication
he took helped either.
--
Gareth McCaughan Dept. of Pure Mathematics & Mathematical Statistics,
gj...@cus.cam.ac.uk Cambridge University, England. [Research student]
Ted Grusec
>I've been wondering for quite a while now what Glenn Gould died of.
>Could someone supply the gruesome details?
>
pills he was famous for taking, and which were attributed to
"hypochondria" and wierdness included medicine for high blood pressure
which he fought all his life and which eventually caused the stroke.
Dan Koren
In article <3b4o3s$6...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> gj...@can.pmms.cam.ac.uk (Gareth McCaughan) writes:
>In article <3b4g16$a...@ow23.fwi.uva.nl>, Sir Hans <d...@fwi.uva.nl> wrote:
>> I've been wondering for quite a while now what Glenn Gould died of.
>> Could someone supply the gruesome details?
>
>He had a stroke, at the age of 50. His circulatory system had always been
>a bit dodgy, but I don't think the vast quantities of assorted medication
>he took helped either.
It is rather interesting to note that quite a few great pianists were
felled, or disabled, by strokes: Godowsky, Rosenthal, Barere, Friedman,
Edwin Fischer, Solomon, Gould. I'm wondering if this has anything to do
with piano playing. Does anyone know about other pianists to add to the
above list?
thx,
dk
James C Liu
>It is rather interesting to note that quite a few great pianists were
>felled, or disabled, by strokes: Godowsky, Rosenthal, Barere, Friedman,
>Edwin Fischer, Solomon, Gould. I'm wondering if this has anything to do
>with piano playing. Does anyone know about other pianists to add to the
>above list?
Does it? I kind of thought that strokes were reasonably common; until
relatively recently, with the big screening campaigns to treat asymptomatic
hypertension, stroke rates were relatively high. Other indications that
there were trouble (transient ischemic attacks, atrial arrhythmias,
carotid artery stenoses) weren't even known about until relatively recently.
In some cases, there are textbook patterns indicating that there was going
to be a problem (e.g. Solomon's series of TIA's and smaller strokes before
the big one that left him tragically incapacitated). Chances are that
something could have been done to prevent that today.
--
/James C.S. Liu, MD "I went to a general store, but they
jl...@world.std.com wouldn't let me buy anything specific."
Department of Medicine
New England Med Ctr, Boston MA -- Steve Wright
Alain DAGHER
: ... a few great pianists ...
: ... Solomon, Gould ...
Now I'm confused! -)
--
Best wishes,
Alain Dagher
E-Mail: al...@pet.mni.mcgill.ca
Dan Koren
>Dan Koren (d...@netcom.com) wrote:
>
>: ... a few great pianists ...
>: ... Solomon, Gould ...
>Now I'm confused! -)
We count differently when it comes to strokes... ;-))
Which reminds me of one of Klemperer's jokes. At the end of 1954 he
said to some journalist: "This was such a good year - Kleiber died,
Furtwaengler died..."
dk
dk
Ed Price
>In article <3b4g16$a...@ow23.fwi.uva.nl> d...@fwi.uva.nl (Sir Hans) writes:
>>I've been wondering for quite a while now what Glenn Gould died of.
>>Could someone supply the gruesome details?
>>
>Stroke. Once it hit, he never regained consciousness.
Actually if I remember the Friedrich biography correctly, that's not quite
true. My attempt to summarize: He noticed upon waking up one morning (or
afternoon more probably) that his left side was numb. (I think this is
because the stroke happened on one side of the brain.) He called a friend
and was convinced to go to the hospital. They tried easing the pressure on
the brain or whatever they do. Eventually the other side swelled up. He
was able to and did talk to people although he was pretty incoherent
towards the end apparently. He was put on life support but they pulled the
plug when it became clear that there was no hope. I'm not sure how long
the various phases of this process were; pehaps a week total before he
died? Well, read the Friedrich book for more accurate info (I'd refer to
it myself but unfortunately I don't own it, haven't been able to find a
copy).
Another random observation while I'm here: I just listened to a CD called
"The Young Glenn Gould: 1947 to 1953". I'm a fairly rabid member of the
Gould cult -- I *do* think he's special. So anyway it was "humanizing" to
hear him sound *bad*, which he does in the earlier stuff. For example
Bach's Italian Concerto, recorded in 1948 when he was about 15 or 16,
sounds like more or less an amateur stumbling through it, not like "Glenn
Gould". I was surprised.
-Ed
Dan Koren
>Another random observation while I'm here: I just listened to a CD called
>"The Young Glenn Gould: 1947 to 1953". I'm a fairly rabid member of the
>Gould cult -- I *do* think he's special. So anyway it was "humanizing" to
>hear him sound *bad*, which he does in the earlier stuff. For example
Where does he sound *good*?!? He made it a point to sound *bad* every
time.
>Bach's Italian Concerto, recorded in 1948 when he was about 15 or 16,
>sounds like more or less an amateur stumbling through it, not like "Glenn
>Gould". I was surprised.
The stuff he recorded later sounds like a professional iconoclast blazing
through. All in all, I'd rather tolerate the amateur as the lesser of two
evils.
dk
Mike Quigley#2
>Another random observation while I'm here: I just listened to a CD called
>"The Young Glenn Gould: 1947 to 1953". I'm a fairly rabid member of the
>Gould cult -- I *do* think he's special. So anyway it was "humanizing" to
>hear him sound *bad*, which he does in the earlier stuff. For example
>Bach's Italian Concerto, recorded in 1948 when he was about 15 or 16,
>sounds like more or less an amateur stumbling through it, not like "Glenn
>Gould". I was surprised.
This recording was reissued recently at full price in Canada (I bought
mine for peanuts when the previous incarnation was deleted). It is
strictly for the most psychotic Gould fans.
Mike Quigley#2
>Where does he [Gould] sound *good*?!? He made it a point to sound *bad* every
>time.
...
>The stuff he recorded later sounds like a professional iconoclast blazing
>through. All in all, I'd rather tolerate the amateur as the lesser of two
>evils.
Thus spake the David Koresh of the r.m.c. Richter cult...
Paul Homchick
> Where does he sound *good*?!? He made it a point to sound *bad* every
> The stuff he recorded later sounds like a professional iconoclast blazing
> through. All in all, I'd rather tolerate the amateur as the lesser of two
> evils.
Do I sense a glimmer of toleration of Gould here? ... Perhaps not.
In any event, the certainty of seeing such messages any time someone
brings up the subject is reassuring in an ever-changing world.
By the way, Dan, have you heard Winston Churchill's definition of a
"fanatic"? "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't
change the subject." One of my favorite Churchill-isms.
P.S. I suppose it is only fair to say that I am a dyed-in-the-wool
Gould cultist.
--
Paul Homchick :UUCP dsinc!cgh!paul
Chimitt Gilman Homchick, Inc. : pitt!amanue!-/
1111 West DeKalb Pike, Suite 101 :Internet pa...@cgh.com
Wayne, PA 19087-2179 :Sometimes/Internet phom...@wpo.hcc.com
rob...@unixg.ubc.ca
When we all know that every piece he ever conducted died right on stage.
: dk
: dk
Yoshiyuki Mukudai
d...@netcom.com writes:
[edited by YM]
>> It is rather interesting to note that quite a few great pianists were
>> felled, or disabled, by strokes: Godowsky, Rosenthal, Barere, Friedman,
>> Edwin Fischer,\italic {Solomon, Gould}.
Dan, I appreciate your comment very much. It seems to me apparent that
you regard Gould and Solomon as great pianists in the same way as I
think of Richter. Don't hesitate to say you just cannot bear their tastes
though you admit that they are among great pianists! ;-)
By the way, I have been fascinated with your definition of Solomon's
performances, namely "the taste of water". But, just in case, I'd like
to suggest one thing to you. I recommend you to come to Japan and to
travel around the rural side instead of going to every concert halls,
and you will find how varied the taste of water is whthin its limited
extent.
Yoshiyuki M.
Dan Koren
>In article <dkCzuF...@netcom.com> d...@netcom.com writes:
>
>[edited by YM]
>
>>> It is rather interesting to note that quite a few great pianists were
>>> felled, or disabled, by strokes: Godowsky, Rosenthal, Barere, Friedman,
>>> Edwin Fischer,\italic {Solomon, Gould}.
Your italics, not mine.
>Dan, I appreciate your comment very much. It seems to me apparent that
>you regard Gould and Solomon as great pianists
I do not regard Solomon or Gould as great pianists in my opinion. In
the list above I used the term "great pianists" in its conventional
meaning, i.e. pianists regarded as great by (statistical) public
opinion.
>in the same way as I think of Richter.
I have no idea what you think of Richter, or how it is relevant to
the above. As far as I can recall, you never posted your view of
Richter. Or perhaps you did and I missed it.
>Don't hesitate to say you just cannot bear their tastes
I don't think I've ever had such hesitations, did I?
>though you admit that they are among great pianists! ;-)
Yes, in the sense I described above. They are among everybody else's
great pianists.
>By the way, I have been fascinated with your definition of Solomon's
>performances, namely "the taste of water". But, just in case, I'd like
Why? Did you think that description was appropriate?
>to suggest one thing to you. I recommend you to come to Japan and to
Thanks, it's been on my wish list for a long time. Unfortunately, I
have to make a living, and I don't feel a visit anything less than 6
months could do Japan justice. Do you think I could find work as a
music/concert/record reviewer/critic? ;-)
>travel around the rural side instead of going to every concert halls,
Of course, I'd be a lot more interested to explore the real Japan than
the Westernized large cities.
>and you will find how varied the taste of water is whthin its limited
>extent.
I'm not unaware of how different water can taste from place to place.
However, I prefer to use the little spare time I have to concentrate
on tasting cabernet, pinot and port. ;-)) What Japanese wines would
you recommend?
>Yoshiyuki M.
Should I consider myself invited?
thx,
dk
Ed Price
>>Another random observation while I'm here: I just listened to a CD called
>>"The Young Glenn Gould: 1947 to 1953". I'm a fairly rabid member of the
>>Gould cult -- I *do* think he's special. So anyway it was "humanizing" to
>>hear him sound *bad*, which he does in the earlier stuff. For example
d...@netcom.com (Dan Koren):
>Where does he sound *good*?!? He made it a point to sound *bad* every
>time.
To me Gould almost always sounds great. I don't think Gould made it a
point to sound bad. Seems highly plausible that what sounds good to Gould
-- and to me and others -- is simply not what sounds good to you.
(Well, there is the reasonable argument that Gould probably did make it a
point to avoid making a piece of music sound good if he thought that it
was, in fact, not -- but that's a somewhat different issue IMHO.)
edp:
>>Bach's Italian Concerto, recorded in 1948 when he was about 15 or 16,
>>sounds like more or less an amateur stumbling through it, not like "Glenn
>>Gould". I was surprised.
dk:
>The stuff he recorded later sounds like a professional iconoclast blazing
>through. All in all, I'd rather tolerate the amateur as the lesser of two
>evils.
Hmm. Well, I'm curious... Have you heard the recording in question? If
so, what did you think? Yeah, bad, of course (I assume), but was there
that same distinctive Gouldian badness (which the later "professional"
version of the Italian Concerto does have, IMHO, though not quite as much
as even later things like, say, the WTC)? It sounded much more
conventionally bad to me.
-Ed
Gerard Stocker
If this is the recording I think it is, I'd have to agree with you
about the Italian Concerto, but there is a pretty convincing recording of
the Berg sonata. Especially for one so young. The rest is pretty much as
you say, for Gould-o-philes only. Still, there aren't too many people out
there doing Tanieyev recordings, so for curiosity's sake...
Best,
Gerard Stocker
Lutz H. Tack
> It is rather interesting to note that quite a few great pianists were
> felled, or disabled, by strokes: Godowsky, Rosenthal, Barere, Friedman,
> Edwin Fischer, Solomon, Gould. I'm wondering if this has anything to do
> with piano playing. Does anyone know about other pianists to add to the
> above list?
Wilhelm Backhaus.
Regards,
Lutz
---
Lutz H. Tack
ta...@wharfrat.fido.de
Stephan Hamann
>e...@panix.com (Ed Price):
>>>Another random observation while I'm here: I just listened to a CD called
>>>"The Young Glenn Gould: 1947 to 1953". I'm a fairly rabid member of the
>>>Gould cult -- I *do* think he's special. So anyway it was "humanizing" to
>>>hear him sound *bad*, which he does in the earlier stuff. For example
>
>d...@netcom.com (Dan Koren):
>>Where does he sound *good*?!? He made it a point to sound *bad* every
>>time.
>
>To me Gould almost always sounds great. I don't think Gould made it a
>point to sound bad. Seems highly plausible that what sounds good to Gould
>-- and to me and others -- is simply not what sounds good to you.
I think it's more than plausible, it's obvious. :-)
>>>Bach's Italian Concerto, recorded in 1948 when he was about 15 or 16,
>>>sounds like more or less an amateur stumbling through it, not like "Glenn
>>>Gould". I was surprised.
>
I had a similar reaction to this recording. In fact, I was at first
highly suspicious of whether it was in fact Gould playing it because it
was so bad. I have heard children of that age play the Italian Concerto
much better than Gould did at that age. I guess he underwent some sort
of great transformation in his playing shortly thereafter.
--stephan
ste...@psych.toronto.edu