What instrument is this?
Steve Horvath
An easy question for someone who knows their instruments, and
is familiar with pop music of the 1960's: What is the name of
that instrument in Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer?"
You can hear it come in on the first verse and the one that
says, "In the clearing stands a Boxer..." It kind of sounds
like a "bass kazoo," but of course, it must be an "orchestra" type
instrument. I believe the same instrument is found at the
end of the Beatles "Fool on the Hill."
P.S. Wasn't "The Boxer" the first 16 track recording of a
popular song?
--
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| Steve Horvath | Post No Bills |
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David M Tate
>
>An easy question for someone who knows their instruments, and
>is familiar with pop music of the 1960's: What is the name of
>that instrument in Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer?"
>You can hear it come in on the first verse and the one that
>says, "In the clearing stands a Boxer..." It kind of sounds
>like a "bass kazoo," but of course, it must be an "orchestra" type
Your description made me suspicious, so I dragged out the old tape and took
a listen (pausing to revel in "Keep the Customer Satisfied" and "So Long,
Frank Lloyd Wright" first) to "The Boxer". Unless I miss my guess, the sound
you have in mind is none other than a baritone saxophone, being deliberately
'honked' by the player (loose emboucher) to get the extra-buzzy sound. Barry
sax is not exactly a standard orchestral instrument (is there one in Bolero?),
but those of us who were the worst sax player in the Jr. High Jazz Band are
quite familiar with them...
saxophone ("Barry Sax" to us old jazz band players)
--
David M. Tate | "The man bent over his guitar,/A shearsman of
dt...@unix.cis.pitt.edu | sorts; the day was green./They said, "You have
| a blue guitar,/You do not play things as they
"A Man for all Seasonings" | are." --Wallace Stevens
Stephen Smoliar
writes:
>>like a "bass kazoo," but of course, it must be an "orchestra" type
>
concerto. A soprano played the kazoo. I see no reason why a bass could not
do an equally serious job.
> Barry
>sax is not exactly a standard orchestral instrument (is there one in Bolero?),
>but those of us who were the worst sax player in the Jr. High Jazz Band are
>quite familiar with them...
>
No, Ravel went in the opposite direction. The only "standard" saxophone he
uses is a Bb tenor. Going up, he skips from there to Bb soprano and then has
an F sopranino on top. Now, while I was even once on playing terms with the
baritone, I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
Roland Kirk ever play one?
=========================================================================
USPS: Stephen Smoliar
USC Information Sciences Institute
4676 Admiralty Way Suite 1001
Marina del Rey, California 90292-6695
Internet: smo...@vaxa.isi.edu
"Only a schoolteacher innocent of how literature is made could have written
such a line."--Gore Vidal
Victor Eijkhout
>[...] What is the name of
>that instrument in Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer?"
A saxophone. Probably baritone, and rather close-miked.
Victor.
JTViikki
>I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
>Roland Kirk ever play one?
I think that Kirk played it (is there a reed instrument he
did not play?) and I have seen Anthony Braxton playing it.
JTViikki
---
Nou Dadoun
(Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>No, Ravel went in the opposite direction. The only "standard" saxophone he
>uses is a Bb tenor. Going up, he skips from there to Bb soprano and then has
>an F sopranino on top. Now, while I was even once on playing terms with the
>baritone, I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
>Roland Kirk ever play one?
Probably, although I can't point offhand to any recorded examples. However,
there is a (mostly) European saxophone sextet called Six Winds which
features the six major members of the saxophone family. John Tchicai on
tenor is probably the best known member; the sopranino player is Bill Smith
(not the same guy as the clarinet player who used to play with Brubeck)
co-editor of CODA magazine, co-producer of jazz film Imagine the Sound,
co-curator of Sackville records (on which the Six Winds records appear)
and in general a major behind the scenes force in contemporary American
jazz and related musics.
--------------------------------------------------------------------> Nou
Can elephants dance?
==
Nou Dadoun | ubc-cs!cs.ubc.ca!dadoun
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Vancouver, B.C. V6T 1W5 |---------------------
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Victor Eijkhout
>smo...@vaxa.isi.edu (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>>I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
>>Roland Kirk ever play one?
There is (was?) a Dutch jazz saxophone quintet that had four
sopranino players and one baritone (bass?).
Victor.
Marco Zagha
>
> (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
> >No, Ravel went in the opposite direction. The only "standard" saxophone he
> >uses is a Bb tenor. Going up, he skips from there to Bb soprano and then has
> >an F sopranino on top. Now, while I was even once on playing terms with the
> >baritone, I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
> >Roland Kirk ever play one?
Joseph Jarman of the Art Ensemble of Chicago plays sopranino. I saw him
play it live in the recent Art Ensemble concert in Pittsburgh. On
their album, _The Third Decade_, Jarman lists Sopranino, Soprano,
Alto, Tenor, Bari, Bass Clarinet, Clarinet, Piccolo, Eb Flute, C Flute,
Conch Shell, Gongs, Congas, Tom-Tom Drums, Whistles, Bell Rack, Siren,
Bike Horns, Bass Pan Drum, and Synthesizer. He leaves the Dinner Chimes
to Roscoe Mitchell and the Elephant Horn to Famoudou Don Moye :-)
== Marco
Internet: mar...@cs.cmu.edu Uucp: ...!seismo!cs.cmu.edu!marcoz
Bitnet: marcoz%cs.cmu.edu@cmuccvma CSnet: marcoz%cs.cm...@relay.cs.net
Marc Kenig
writes:
>In article <93...@cbnewsh.ATT.COM> sp...@cbnewsh.ATT.COM (Steve Horvath)
>writes:
>> It kind of sounds
>>like a "bass kazoo," but of course, it must be an "orchestra" type
>
>Why "of course?" Bernstein once had the New York Philharmonic play a kazoo
>concerto. A soprano played the kazoo. I see no reason why a bass could not
>do an equally serious job.
Also, Frank Loesser has the whole pit orchestra in "How to Succeed in Business
Without Really Trying" hum a kazoo accompaniament to the chorus in the
song "I Believe In Me". Rather than being a novelty, it's sound perfectly fits
the sentiment of the scene (other managers plotting to cut down the rival high
flying exec - "Gotta get that man before he gets me").
I rather like it when composers of good 'ol tonal music get adventurous with
sounds other than regular orchestral instruments produce.
Marc Kenig
Informix Software, Inc.
mu298ai
>>I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
>>Roland Kirk ever play one?
I just saw/heard Vinnie Golia play one. He seems to play anything
and everything that can be blown into.
Sue
mu298ai
>Sue
I meant to say in the woodwind category. He doesn't play brass.
Sue
Kiyoshi Kurihara
I cannot find the original article on this, sorry if this answer is
beside the mark.
> (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else. Did
>Roland Kirk ever play one?
>
Actually, David Sanborn played one on his third(?) album 'Promise me
The Moon" (probably discontinued). Also, Sadao Watanabe (used to) play
one. I don't know other jazz-fusion sopranino players beside
avant-garde parties. This ax seems to lack in wide variuety of
expression, and is very hard to control the pitch. (and hard to find
its reed, maybe).
I found a curved sopranino at a local music shop. It is exactly a
half-scale model of alto. kinda cute. I didn't dare to ask the price.
k.k
thomas coleman
> > (Stephen Smoliar) writes:
>
> >>I am not sure I have EVER heard a sopranino anywhere else.
I missed the original postings, but I am interested in the thread. I can't
answer about Roland Kirk, but Jan Garberek plays sopranino sometimes. I
am not sure off-hand what albums, but look for Bobo Stenson quartet,
Keith Jarrett, or Jan's own groups. Any other sopranino players? Who
was the original posting about (I can't access archives, as far as I know.)?
Joe Drzewiecki
> > >uses is a Bb tenor. Going up, he skips from there to Bb soprano and then has
> > >an F sopranino on top. Now, while I was even once on playing terms with the
David Sanborn plays one all the time on "Night Music". Unless my eyes and ears
are really screwed up, that little straight puppy is not a soprano, but a
sopranino. So, we can not only hear one but see it too!
A really great session player in Chicago named Roger Pemberton used to play
one too.
Finally, unless I'm mistaken, the sopranino is pitched in Eb. (Which makes it
a lot easier for alto players to improvise on, since they are already used to
the wierd way Eb instruments make you think:-)
--
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
- Joe Drzewiecki
William Fornaciari
the C/F pairs: C melody tenor, F mezzo-soprano, C soprano and
(voila) F sopranino i've personally played the first three, and i'll
take the high F 'nino on faith. Of the band keyed saxes, i've seen
one player with a set of Bb bass to Bb soprano, all old Conn satin silver, with
a melody to boot. I'm aware of the extreme Eb contrabass and Eb sopranino.
not to be confused with clarinets, which now come in any key or color.
Bill Fornaciari
w...@ucla.cs.edu
{...sdcrdcf,inhp4,trwspp,ucbvax}!ucla-cs!wpf
(818) 449-8928
Stephen Mounsey
> Finally, unless I'm mistaken, the sopranino is pitched in Eb. (Which makes it
> a lot easier for alto players to improvise on, since they are already used to
> the wierd way Eb instruments make you think:-)
>
> --
> :-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
> - Joe Drzewiecki
When Adolph Saxe invented the instrument he produced an orchestral
series alternating F and C (therefore the orchestral sopranino would
have been in F) and a military band series, alternating Eb and Bb.
The only member of the orchestral series to survive much into this
century, as far as I know, was the so-called C-melody tenor. This
instrument was popular with cafe musicians and the like because they
could play the melody part of song scores or whatever without
transposing.
I have seen a second hand C soprano in a shop in London. When I
mentioned to the proprietor that I was interested in his C soprano he
said "No, it's a normal soprano, but it's a bit shorter" ! I didn't
think it was worth arguing acoustics with him.
Any other struggling (or accomplished) amateur "classical"
saxophonists out there fighting the preconception that the saxophone
is a "jazz" instrument? (I like jazz too, mind you)
- Stephen Mounsey
Mark Gresham
>is familiar with pop music of the 1960's: What is the name of
>that instrument in Simon and Garfunkel's "The Boxer?"
>You can hear it come in on the first verse and the one that
>says, "In the clearing stands a Boxer..." It kind of sounds
>like a "bass kazoo," but of course, it must be an "orchestra" type
>instrument.
I don't know about the bass-kazoo sound (don't recall the sound
itself) but the famous 'crash' sound is a file cabinet.
Cheers,
--Mark
========================================
Mark Gresham ARTSNET Norcross, GA, USA
E-mail: ...gatech!artsnet!mgresham
or: artsnet!mgre...@gatech.edu
========================================
BRIAN
> ...
>
>> The only member of the orchestral series to survive much into this
>> century, as far as I know, was the so-called C-melody tenor.
>
I have a Conn C soprano that my uncle left me when he died. He always
said that it was quite rare. It is silver with gold keys and is a
little shorter and a little bigger around then the Bb soprano. It is
in ok shape but needs to be re-plated and re-paded.
brian
Dave Jones
...
>
> When Adolph Saxe invented the instrument he produced an orchestral
> series alternating F and C (therefore the orchestral sopranino would
> have been in F) and a military band series, alternating Eb and Bb.
>
That's "Sax", not "Saxe". He was not only the Sax Club president;
he was also a client. According to the late Sigurd Rascher, ol' Adolphe
was a great player, who even developed an altisimo register.
Trivia time.
The first commercial saxophone model was introduced in 1843, with
several more to follow the next year. Question: Was the first horn
as bass, bari, tenor, or what, and what key was it in?
Dave Jones
> The only member of the orchestral series to survive much into this
> century, as far as I know, was the so-called C-melody tenor.
There were others. King was advertising a C soprano in the mid twenties.
David M Tate
>
>Trivia time.
>The first commercial saxophone model was introduced in 1843, with
>several more to follow the next year. Question: Was the first horn
>as bass, bari, tenor, or what, and what key was it in?
OK, I'll bite. It was an alto "C mellow Saxophone", in (obviously) C.