Best Wotan?
Rajeev Aloysius
This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
2) Does anyone have an opinion about Matthew Best's Wotan? I heard him
sing this role live at last years' Times Opera of the Year - The
Edinburgh Festival "Die Walküre".
regards
Rajeev Aloysius
Elizabeth Hubbell
>
> Hello all,
>
> This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
>
> 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
> reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
> hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
Of literally complete Wotans on disc, my preferred one is Ferdinand
Frantz.
Of those available in extracts or in complete performances of only one
or two of the Ring operas, it would be Friedrich Schorr (unfortunately,
the only complete Walkueres with Schorr show him past his prime, meaning
the finest Walkuere Wotan from Schorr is a heavily abridged "potted"
Walkuere made in the late 20s where he's, IMO, glorious).
Personally, I don't really feel that I've ever seen a Wotan in person
who would even "rate". Since I've seen a fair number, including
Nimsgern, Sotin, Morris, et al, I recognize that might seem a rather
harsh thing to say (and, yes, I'm in a distinct minority). Still,
Wotan, however -- occasionally -- misguided, is still a bit of a
visionary, and a poetic one to boot, IMO. (Listen to the music *and*
his eloquent lines, for crying out loud!) This means, for me, that
there is always something a little lofty, even tender, behind it all.
Brusque "pirate chieftains" (i.e., the dreary hand-me-down cliches of
the harsh "Hollywood-style god" usually served up) are just
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!
> 2) Does anyone have an opinion about Matthew Best's Wotan? I heard him
> sing this role live at last years' Times Opera of the Year - The
> Edinburgh Festival "Die Walküre".
No, did not catch that.
Cordially,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Jeremy Dimmick
"Rajeev Aloysius" <raj...@starmail.com> wrote in message
news:28a37761.02072...@posting.google.com...
> Hello all,
>
> This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
>
> 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD?
I must have terrible taste in singers, because reviewers always seem to
single out Theo Adam as vocally inept. I think his characterization of
Wotan is the high spot of the Böhm cycle; I find him constantly enthralling,
credible and basically sympathetic.
jd
Simon Roberts
<jeremy....@stcatz.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>I must have terrible taste in singers, because reviewers always seem to
>single out Theo Adam as vocally inept. I think his characterization of
>Wotan is the high spot of the Böhm cycle; I find him constantly enthralling,
>credible and basically sympathetic.
He certainly acts well with his voice. If you find his tone agreeable and
don't mind his vibrato.... I'm rather keen on Karajan's underrated
Thomas Stewart, myself - sings well, acts well, attractive tone.
Simon
Simon Roberts
>
>2) Does anyone have an opinion about Matthew Best's Wotan? I heard him
>sing this role live at last years' Times Opera of the Year - The
>Edinburgh Festival "Die Walküre".
How was he? My only encounter with him is as Gardiner's Pizarro in
Leonore. If that's typical of his singing, I don't want to hear him sing
anything ever again....
Simon
Mike Richter
>
> Hello all,
>
> This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
>
> 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
> reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
> hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
I'll take Hotter in the Wallberg Ring - which is not yet in general
distribution though recorded in 1962. Soon, folks, soon.
I shall resist the temptation to say that one cannot get Hotter than
that.
Richard Loeb
"Mike Richter" <mric...@cpl.net> wrote in message
news:3D4189E6...@cpl.net...
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Rajeev Aloysius wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
>
> 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
> reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
> hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
Even though he's only recorded the Abschied" from Wakure,
Jose van Dam gets my vote. I also heard him sing it "live"
on the program of Pappano's "farewell" concert in Brussels,
last month. Like everything else the man sings, his
interpretation and performance have continued to grow and
mature since he last recorded it. I had to agree with the
reviewer, who bemoaned the fact that we shall never hear him
in the complete role! There were plans to do a "Ring" at La
Monnaie in 2003, van Dam (despite a lifelong reluctance to
do it, because he doesn't really LIKE the part) had agreed
to sing Wotan. Then Pappano accepted the offer from Covent
Garden, and the plan had to be abandoned. (But, if the
single aria is any indication, his would have been a Wotan
to remember - fully the equal of Hotter or any of the other
truly "greats".)
>
> 2) Does anyone have an opinion about Matthew Best's Wotan? I heard him
> sing this role live at last years' Times Opera of the Year - The
> Edinburgh Festival "Die Walküre".
Sorry, afraid I've never even heard of him! (Which doesn't
mean he's not good, just that I have no opinion to offer.)
David7Gable
Friedrich Schorr and Hans Hotter: not necessariy as they've been captured on
discs but at their ideal best.
-david gable
Jon A Conrad
>I must have terrible taste in singers, because reviewers always seem to
>single out Theo Adam as vocally inept. I think his characterization of
>Wotan is the high spot of the Böhm cycle; I find him constantly enthralling,
>credible and basically sympathetic.
The two ideas are not necessarily contradictory: I agree that his
intentions were always good and intelligent, his timbre at its best (as in
his early Bach) quite sympathetic... it's just a matter of how well his
voice is responding to his intentions, and I find in this RING that it
isn't working terribly well most of the time, so that he can't fill out
the musical lines with the expression he clearly has in mind.
For the basic Wotan question.... it's tough. Friedrich Schorr is the
reference point in many ways, but he can be heard only in ancient sound
and in excerpts. George London was recorded as his voice was starting to
decline, and I must confess that I find the results pretty unappealing.
Thomas Stewart is good as far as he goes, but I think that parts of the
role need more sound than he had, and he was denied the chance to do
RHEINGOLD in this cycle. Hans Hotter has all the right ideas and is way
ahead of most Wotans in what he's after... but you have to accept the
shuddery, often unfocused tone, and I can't always manage to.
Rolf Polke is actually quite good on the Westminster set, but who wants to
endure all that just to hear him? I very much like Norman Bailey on the
ENO set (the vibrato not yet out of hand), but it's in English so that
won't satisfy everyone's needs. I was impressed by John Tomlinson when I
saw the Kupfer RING in its first summer, 1988, but not when I'm just
hearing him -- the high end of both pitch and volume can be chancy. Robert
Hale was probably more all-round satisfying during the many years he did
the role in Europe before he got to record 2/3 of it -- decades of his
career went unrecorded.
I think the choice Wotan on complete recordings is James Morris, more
especially on the Levine cycle. His voice encompasses the range of pitch,
volume, and color needed, he has a fine idea of where the musical phrases
are going and a convincing overall conception. Because he's able to
actually sing the part (quite splendidly at some notable test points), he
doesn't fuss with the words as much as some who have only that to
recommend them, but there's no doubt that he's building a dramatic
characer of stature. Having listened to all the Wotans comparatively, I
feel comfident that he comes closest.
Jon Alan Conrad
Department of Music
University of Delaware
con...@udel.edu
Niklas Ejve
Ring from Bayreuth (Das Reingold, 3rd act of Die Walkürie and Siegfried): I
think it's a pity he left Bayreuth in anger never to return being their
third choise Wotan
2) Sory, never heard of him.
Niklas
"Rajeev Aloysius" <raj...@starmail.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:28a37761.02072...@posting.google.com...
wkas...@attbi.com
> Of literally complete Wotans on disc, my preferred one is Ferdinand
> Frantz.
But only on the 1949 broadcast, conducted by Moralt, recently issued (and
cheaply) on Gebhardt. Prior to this, I knew him from the 1950 La Scala and
1953 RAI cycles, as well as the 1954 studio Walkuere. The 1950 was the best
of them, but he only sang two of the operas, and in all of these struck me
as a basically serviceable singer, short at the top, with a stiff, wooden
manner. He sounds like a completely different singer in 1949. Probably the
best sheer voice to record the role complete, and with far greater attention
to both text and phrasing than in the later recordings.
I'm not terribly impressed by the rest of the singers in that 1949 RING, but
Frantz is certainly worth the $55 or so.
Bill
--
====================
William D. Kasimer
wkas...@attbi.com
wkas...@quincymc.org
Elizabeth Hubbell
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> Rajeev Aloysius wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
> >
> > 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
> > reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
> > hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
>
> Even though he's only recorded the Abschied" from Wakure,
> Jose van Dam gets my vote. I also heard him sing it "live"
> on the program of Pappano's "farewell" concert in Brussels,
> last month. Like everything else the man sings, his
> interpretation and performance have continued to grow and
> mature since he last recorded it. I had to agree with the
> reviewer, who bemoaned the fact that we shall never hear him
> in the complete role! There were plans to do a "Ring" at La
> Monnaie in 2003, van Dam (despite a lifelong reluctance to
> do it, because he doesn't really LIKE the part) had agreed
> to sing Wotan. Then Pappano accepted the offer from Covent
> Garden, and the plan had to be abandoned. (But, if the
> single aria is any indication, his would have been a Wotan
> to remember - fully the equal of Hotter or any of the other
> truly "greats".)
As one who finds his Amfortas, his Hans Sachs and his Vanderdecken
thoroughly satisfying, I can just imagine how very fine his Wotan might
have been.
How very droll. Why, here we might have had an interpretation that
actually paid heed to Wagner's intrinsically poetic phrasing, understood
how the poetry and longing in Wagner's verse formed a dramatic whole
with its frequently poignant music. Everything is clearly meant to be
as poetic in Wotan as in Hans Sachs or Amfortas. But perhaps
internalizing all that and presenting it simply, openly, directly and
musically doesn't entail enough overt (aaaaand dreary aaaaaand cliche)
effortfulness to be "impressive" for commercial--and
one-dimensional--effect:-(:-(:-(:-(
Once and for all, watching a really good, unmannered Shakespearean actor
who is utterly natural in the rise AND FALL(!!!!!) of emotions in
dramatic verse would, IMO, be more salutary in priming a potentially
superb Wotan than subjecting him to the pseudo-coaching that seeems to
go on these days with this role, in which the simple rule of thumb
appears to be bluster, bluster and more bluster in order to "impress"!
Once and for all, that's booooooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring and
antipoetic!!!! The poetic element in Wagner's works, both in the lines
and in the music, is what *makes* the drama and the frequently profound
characterizations *go*!
Van Dam might have thrown all these knee-jerk coaches out of business
had he thrown everyone out of whack by REALLY presenting Wagner's
multi-dimensional writing in this role just once! A lost opportunity.
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Jeremy Dimmick
"Simon Roberts" <sd...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:slrn3vsak2v...@pobox.upenn.edu...
> On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:15:45 +0100, Jeremy Dimmick
> <jeremy....@stcatz.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >I must have terrible taste in singers, because reviewers always seem to
> >single out Theo Adam as vocally inept. I think his characterization of
> >Wotan is the high spot of the Böhm cycle; I find him constantly
enthralling,
> >credible and basically sympathetic.
>
> He certainly acts well with his voice. If you find his tone agreeable and
> don't mind his vibrato....
I agree that this is a big if for almost everyone. Normally ill-controlled
vibrato annoys me more than anything else in singers (or violinists), but in
this case I'm quite untroubled by it. Perhaps I'm skewed by having (very
slowly) learned to appreciate the cycle as drama before I came to appreciate
it as music; I didn't begin to grasp it at all until sitting down to read
the libretti properly - and it took quite a few effortful listens to Die
Walküre before I came to realise I genuinely enjoyed it. One must surely be
a vocal *actor* first and foremost in Wagner.
Jeremy
Matthew B. Tepper
news:102773652...@iris.uk.clara.net:
> I agree that this is a big if for almost everyone. Normally ill-
> controlled vibrato annoys me more than anything else in singers (or
> violinists), but in this case I'm quite untroubled by it. Perhaps I'm
> skewed by having (very slowly) learned to appreciate the cycle as drama
> before I came to appreciate it as music; I didn't begin to grasp it at
> all until sitting down to read the libretti properly - and it took
> quite a few effortful listens to Die Walküre before I came to realise I
> genuinely enjoyed it. One must surely be a vocal *actor* first and
> foremost in Wagner.
> Jeremy
Perhaps that's the reason why Ernst Kozub was such a disappointment to
John Culshaw (and the rest of the team recording with Solti)?
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
Mike Richter
>
> Oh Mike - why must you tempt us like that????
> "Mike Richter" <mric...@cpl.net> wrote in message
> > I'll take Hotter in the Wallberg Ring - which is not yet in general
> > distribution though recorded in 1962. Soon, folks, soon.
> >
> > I shall resist the temptation to say that one cannot get Hotter than
> > that.
I can't help it. I just received the recording and am excited by it.
We're working on some questions of production and format; it will take
some time to become available, but I think you'll find it well worth the
wait. Needless to say, the price will be right, too.
Lee Goodman
sound of his rich deep voice. I've only got him on a live Met Walkure
but he is one of my alltime favorite basses.
Richard Loeb
RAI Ring recorded about the same time.
"Jeremy Dimmick" <jeremy....@stcatz.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:ahrp5c$p3p$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
Richard Loeb
Rajeev Aloysius
He was actually quite good, acting with a rather large sounding voice.
His fury towards his Brunnhilde was most effective.
Regards
Rajeev Aloysius
Mike Richter
>
> Actually he is much better, almost great in fact, in the complete Sawallisch
> RAI Ring recorded about the same time.
Agreed that he's much better there - that's one reason I chose it for
the complete Wagner CD-ROM.
the Strauss Guy
[snip]
> I think the choice Wotan on complete recordings is James Morris, more
> especially on the Levine cycle. His voice encompasses the range of pitch,
> volume, and color needed, he has a fine idea of where the musical phrases
> are going and a convincing overall conception. Because he's able to
> actually sing the part (quite splendidly at some notable test points), he
> doesn't fuss with the words as much as some who have only that to
> recommend them, but there's no doubt that he's building a dramatic
> characer of stature. Having listened to all the Wotans comparatively, I
> feel comfident that he comes closest.
>
> Jon Alan Conrad
> Department of Music
> University of Delaware
> con...@udel.edu
I too like what I've heard of Morris's Wotans on both the Levine and
Haitink recordings (although I've only heard excerpts of either). But
Levine's Wagner is too slow, too smooth, too burnished to appeal to
me. Wouldn't the Haitink recording--admittedly difficult to find--be
a more appealing vehicle (or at least a passable one) for hearing
Morris's approach to the role?
the StraussGuy
Richard Loeb
full of drama. Much easier on the ear than the caterwauling from Schnaut I
heard at Bayreuth in 2000.news:3D42F838...@cpl.net...
David7Gable
>Levine's Wagner is too slow, too smooth, too burnished to appeal to
>me.
You've got that right!
-david gable
Gary Sikon
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:mGn09.5971$XG5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Richard Loeb
they thought they found the definite Helentenor article in Kozub. He had the
voice for it. He promised them he would be prepared to start recording at
the specified time but either was too stupid to memorize the role or just
didn't understand the importance of the project - after a couple false
starts they just gave up on him and had to go hat in hand to Windgassen who
of course would go on to give the performances of his life in the Decca
Ring. Kozub went on to record some small roles but never had the big career
Culshaw thought he could have had.
"Gary Sikon" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:HlF09.1984$0p4...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
Matthew B. Tepper
> Who is Ernst Kozub?
A tenor whom Solti, Culshaw and company worked with when recording
_Tristan und Isolde_ (I think he sang Melot). He was originally signed
to sing the young Siegfried, but was reportedly cavalier in learning the
role for the recording. Eventually the team cut their losses by firing
him and begging Wolfgang Windgassen (who had deliberately been passed
over for the role) to take over and save the project.
The tale is told in John Culshaw's _Putting the Record Straight_.
Brian Stewart
the end of his career when his voice was so wolly and short-breathed he
could scarcely put a three-note phrase together. He was six-foot-six,
with incredible presence and magnetism, and the ability to project
complete security and composure. In short, God-like.
True story: In the early sixties a large group of ticket-holders were
gathered outside the Bayreuth Festspielhaus about three-quarters of an
hour before that evening's performance of Die Walkuere, chatting and
gabbing in various languages. A very tall, very composed, very
distinguised-looking gentleman walked calmly through the crowd and into
the theater, leaving a silence in his wake. After a second or two, and
American blurted out, "Who was THAT?" And a German very coolly
responded, "Das ist der Wotan heute Abend." ("That's tonight's Wotan.")
Cheers!
Brian Stewart
Rajeev Aloysius wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> This question tongue in cheek, is in two parts.
>
> 1) Who is your favourite Wotan, live or on CD? Old LP recording
> reminisces are also welcome! I shall not make any references to hot,
> hotter or hottest singers of the past or present.
>
> 2) Does anyone have an opinion about Matthew Best's Wotan? I heard him
> sing this role live at last years' Times Opera of the Year - The
> Edinburgh Festival "Die Walküre".
>
> regards
> Rajeev Aloysius
Brian Stewart
the end of his career, was still HUGE! In the theater, you could see
his mouth moving, but the voice didn't seem to be coming from him.
Rather, it seemed to be coming from all around you, emanating from the
floors and walls and ceiling of the Festspielhaus. Needless to say,
this added _greatly_ to the overall effect of his last Wotans.
Cheers!
Brian Stewart
Jon A Conrad
>con...@copland.udel.edu (Jon A Conrad) wrote in recommendation of
Morris:
>I too like what I've heard of Morris's Wotans on both the Levine and
>Haitink recordings (although I've only heard excerpts of either). But
>Levine's Wagner is too slow, too smooth, too burnished to appeal to
>me. Wouldn't the Haitink recording--admittedly difficult to find--be
>a more appealing vehicle (or at least a passable one) for hearing
>Morris's approach to the role?
I do think Morris's Wotan is consistently better, more musical and more
alive, on the Levine. And that (assuming you'd agree with me) has to speak
well for at least some aspects of Levine's leadership, as the two sets
were recorded at about the same time. Try to hear his big solo near the
beginning of Scene 2 of RHEINGOLD, with its perfectly shaded build capped
by a thirillingly rounded and complete jump of a tenth at the climax. I've
never heard the potential of this passage fulfilled so completely before.
In fact I find the whole RHEINGOLD quite a success for cast and conductor
-- and in general, I do know what you're talking about with Levine. But he
is clearly able to help his singers to an inspirational level that Haitink
is not (or doesn't try for).
In addition, Haitink has some pretty doleful casting in other roles
weigning him down. And he certainly doesn't have the fabulous Met
orchestra. Yes, I suppose his set is "passable" if that's what you're
content with....
Gary Sikon
someone to write an operating system for the PC! Windgassen is very
underrated - IMHO he was great in Furtwangler Ring also. Kozub reminds me of
Reiner Goldberg, magnificent voice, just "didn't have the essentials".
"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hQF09.315790$iX5.15...@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> It's a famous story - when John Culshaw was preparing to record Siegfried
> they thought they found the definite Helentenor article in Kozub. He had
the
> voice for it. He promised them he would be prepared to start recording at
> the specified time but either was too stupid to memorize the role or just
> didn't understand the importance of the project - after a couple false
> starts they just gave up on him and had to go hat in hand to Windgassen
who
> of course would go on to give the performances of his life in the Decca
> Ring. Kozub went on to record some small roles but never had the big
career
> Culshaw thought he could have had.
>
>
> "Gary Sikon" <res1...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:HlF09.1984$0p4...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
> > Who is Ernst Kozub?
Gary Sikon
believe the poor guy lost his voice in the singing competition with Flagstad
at the end of Siegfried.news:aRI09.12136$9U4....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Sounds like the guy who was went on vacation when IBM was looking for
> someone to write an operating system for the PC! Windgassen is very
> underrated - IMHO he was great in Furtwangler Ring also. Kozub reminds me
of
> Reiner Goldberg, magnificent voice, just "didn't have the essentials".
Pineiro Boccanegra
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Brian Stewart wrote:
>
> For me, without doubt, the best _stage_ Wotan was Hans Hotter, even at
> the end of his career when his voice was so wolly and short-breathed he
> could scarcely put a three-note phrase together. He was six-foot-six,
> with incredible presence and magnetism, and the ability to project
> complete security and composure. In short, God-like.
I'll vouch for that! He gave a masterclass for L.A. Opera
and the L.A. Wagner Society, shortly before his ninetieth
birthday, and the "presence and magnetism" were still much
in evidence! (More energy than some men half his age.)
Edward A. Cowan
> Set Svanholm was in Furtwangler Ring, I believe the poor
> guy lost his voice in the singing competition with Flagstad
> at the end of Siegfried.
Luckily, Svanholm did record the final scene of _Siegfried_ with
Flagstad, cond. Georges Sébastian. This had a couple of issues on LP,
but the EMI CD devoted to Flagstad includes only the passage beginning
"Ewig war ich" (EMI CDH 7 63030 2). Svanholm also recorded the complete
final scene somewhat earlier (and on 78s) with Eileen Farrell. This has
been published on a Myto CD that is probably no longer available. It was
also on LP as RCA-Victor LM-1000.
--E.A.C.
Brian Stewart
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
>
wkas...@attbi.com
"Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
news:1fg0xuw.qyv8yh1goflmoN%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
> Luckily, Svanholm did record the final scene of _Siegfried_ with
> Flagstad, cond. Georges Sébastian. This had a couple of issues on LP,
> but the EMI CD devoted to Flagstad includes only the passage beginning
> "Ewig war ich" (EMI CDH 7 63030 2).
If I'm not mistaken, the entire recording was issued on EMI's LES
INTROUVABLE DU CHANT WAGNERIEN.
> Svanholm also recorded the complete
> final scene somewhat earlier (and on 78s) with Eileen Farrell. This has
> been published on a Myto CD that is probably no longer available.
The title was "Set Svanholm sings Wagner". Talk about hiding your light
under a bushel...
> It was also on LP as RCA-Victor LM-1000.
Also on a later Dynaflex (ptooey) pressing, which also has Farrell's first
recording of the Wesendonck Lieder, with Stokowski.
wkas...@attbi.com
Geoffrey Riggs writes:
> Van Dam might have thrown all these knee-jerk coaches out of business
> had he thrown everyone out of whack by REALLY presenting Wagner's
> multi-dimensional writing in this role just once! A lost opportunity.
And not the first one. When EMI recorded the RING cycle in the studio with
Haitink, they could have been creative and had van Dam sing Wotan; it
wouldn't have been the first time a singer recorded a major role that they'd
never sung on stage. Instead, they signed up Morris, who was already
recording the role for DG *at the same time*. Dumb.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
wkas...@attbi.com wrote:
>
> Geoffrey Riggs writes:
>
> > Van Dam might have thrown all these knee-jerk coaches out of business
> > had he thrown everyone out of whack by REALLY presenting Wagner's
> > multi-dimensional writing in this role just once! A lost opportunity.
>
> And not the first one. When EMI recorded the RING cycle in the studio with
> Haitink, they could have been creative and had van Dam sing Wotan; it
> wouldn't have been the first time a singer recorded a major role that they'd
> never sung on stage. Instead, they signed up Morris, who was already
> recording the role for DG *at the same time*. Dumb.
Judging by the many times he's refused to sing the role in
the past, he may have been asked and turned it down!
Certainly it would have presented no insurmountable
challenges, but he has always claimed to find the role
"unsympathetic" and "incompatible". (Some of us may think
he SINGS like a god, but evidently he's never felt quite as
though he WERE one!) That projected La Monnaie "Ring"
finally offered him a cast and conductor and circumstances
he felt he couldn't refuse, but I suspect he was a bit
relieved when it fell through. (Instead, he will be
creating the role of Oedipe in the world premiere of "Oedipe
sur la Route", a new opera by Pierre Bartholomée, which La
Monnaie will be presenting next March.)
Edward A. Cowan
> "Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
> news:1fg0xuw.qyv8yh1goflmoN%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
>
> > Luckily, Svanholm did record the final scene of _Siegfried_ with
> > Flagstad, cond. Georges Sébastian. This had a couple of issues on LP,
> > but the EMI CD devoted to Flagstad includes only the passage beginning
> > "Ewig war ich" (EMI CDH 7 63030 2).
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the entire recording was issued on EMI's LES
> INTROUVABLE DU CHANT WAGNERIEN.
Alas, it turns out not to be in that particular set. Perhaps you refer
to another similiarly-titled EMI set, "Les introuvables du _Ring_"? If
this item is to be found there, I shall move Heaven and Earth to acquire
it, not having done so before...
--E.A.C.
Elizabeth Hubbell
>
> >
> > Geoffrey Riggs writes:
> >
> > > Van Dam might have thrown all these knee-jerk coaches out of business
> > > had he thrown everyone out of whack by REALLY presenting Wagner's
> > > multi-dimensional writing in this role just once! A lost opportunity.
> >
> > And not the first one. When EMI recorded the RING cycle in the studio with
> > Haitink, they could have been creative and had van Dam sing Wotan; it
> > wouldn't have been the first time a singer recorded a major role that they'd
> > never sung on stage. Instead, they signed up Morris, who was already
> > recording the role for DG *at the same time*. Dumb.
>
> Judging by the many times he's refused to sing the role in
> the past, he may have been asked and turned it down!
> Certainly it would have presented no insurmountable
> challenges, but he has always claimed to find the role
> "unsympathetic" and "incompatible". (Some of us may think
> he SINGS like a god, but evidently he's never felt quite as
> though he WERE one!) That projected La Monnaie "Ring"
> finally offered him a cast and conductor and circumstances
> he felt he couldn't refuse, but I suspect he was a bit
> relieved when it fell through.
Perhaps because he assumes (WRONGLY!!) that when and if he does Wotan he
would be expected to harrumph it out like all the other
second-raters:-(. And that doesn't appeal to him--WHY WOULD IT?! Look,
there's no one of his style now who's done Wotan in most of our
lifetimes. Consequently, the notion that Wotan might be congenial for a
genuinely poetic musical artist like Van Dam might never occur to him.
Even the greatest singers (and Van Dam is surely one of them) have no
obligation to be record collectors as well--UNfortunately! Certainly,
what singer of Van Dam's calibre would even have the time to become as
conversant with the great Wotan excerpts of the past century as most of
us aficionados are? Great singers are great because they spend their
time "tuning" *themselves*, not their hi-fi systems. Moreover, they're
bound to spend more time in the working international world of
performances today than of those in the distant past. So one can't
blame Van Dam for most likely assuming (having only heard what we
starved collectors have been subjected to for the last dreary generation
or so) that Wotan is an uncongenial one-dimensional blusterer without
one ounce of poetic reflection in him. Why, he must think, waste my
precious voice on crude shtick like that?
The tradition of performance for this role has been hopelessly
corrupted, and I expect only some unexpectedly triumphant assumption by
an unknown, relatively young budding heldenbariton in the provinces who
has not been exposed to all the current garbage but who bothers simply
to learn the music and the lines honestly for a small company on his own
at the piano in a healthy cultural vacuum may, may, MAY redress this
horrible vandalism. The blinding success that such a genuinely poetic
musician might have by stripping today's knee-jerk dross from some of
the most tender, LONG-LINED(!!!!!!!!!) music ever written for EITHER
bass or baritone OR bass-baritone could throw more than half the musical
world off its pins--
--G O O D !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
Richard Loeb
Rheingold ex. with Kempe.news:1fg1yys.1i64kbapn4qx4N%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
Richard Loeb
the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
baritone repertoire.
"Elizabeth Hubbell" <elizabet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3D44C4A6...@verizon.net...
David Gray
Dave
"Richard Loeb" <loe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:CU719.341661$iB1.17...@bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Edward A. Cowan
> Kempe's Ring cycle?
There was an LP and CD (the latter on Berlin Classics 0120 035) that
contained 47 minutes of excerpts from _Das Rheingold_ with Rudolf Kempe
conducting forces of the Berlin State Opera (East Berlin) with the
following soloists: Ferdinand Frantz (Wotan), Josef Metternich (Donner),
Rudolf Schock (Froh), Helmut Melchert (Loge), Johanna Blatter (Fricka),
Rut Siewert (Erda), Lisa Otto, Melitta Muszely, and Sieglinde Wagner
(Rhinemaidens), and Benno Kusche (Alberich). The disk contained the
episode of Alberich and the Rhinemaidens from sc.i, and then the
remainder was devoted to extended excerpts from sc.iv, including the
interlude between sc.iii and sc.iv and Alberich's curse, Erda's warning,
and the Entry of the Gods into Valhalla.
I cannot imagine that *all* of the above is also to be found in "Les
introuvables du _Ring," but I should guess some of the stuff from sc.iv
is there.
As for Kempe's _Ring_ cycle, there seems to be one from Bayreuth on CD,
but I have not read any reviews of it. Should anyone know this item, I
should appreciate any information pertaining to it.
--E.A.C.
Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
Richard Loeb wrote:
>
> Frankly IMHO Van Dam . for all his intelligence, has neither the volume nor
> the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
> been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
> baritone repertoire.
Ever heard him in person? I was thunderstruck by the volume
at his command when he chooses to use it! And as for
range....! (Anyway, Wotan isn't particularly demanding in
terms of vocal range, wuich I assume is what you mean.)
However, as Ms. Hubbell says, the music itself doesn't
really call for the bombast ordinarily tossed into that
role. Van Dam is a very thoughtful singer, who pays great
attention to what the lyrics are actually SAYING, and the
nuances the MUSIC calls for. That isn't everyone's cup of
tea when listening to Wagner, apparently. I'm sure his
Wotan would have revealed a richness and subtlety that the
average Wagnerite was never aware the role contained. But
we'll never know, now, will we? (Sigh)
Elizabeth Hubbell
>
> Richard Loeb wrote:
> >
> > Frankly IMHO Van Dam . for all his intelligence, has neither the volume nor
> > the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
> > been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
> > baritone repertoire.
>
> Ever heard him in person? I was thunderstruck by the volume
> at his command when he chooses to use it! And as for
> range....! (Anyway, Wotan isn't particularly demanding in
> terms of vocal range, wuich I assume is what you mean.)
> However, as Ms. Hubbell says,
Alas, my own sloppiness.
First off, sincerely appreciate the clear-eyed comprehension of what I
was getting at. Heartfelt thanks.
I must, though, extend regrets for a repeated<duck> confusion: my wife
and I have two addresses, and since my wife Liz's address happens to be
DSL, and we're constantly listening to opera over the internet via DSL,
my wife's address gets to be used at "posting time".... I usually place
my own name [Geoffrey Riggs] in the subject heading to avoid confusion.
But, understandably, confusion isn't always prevented.
> the music itself doesn't
> really call for the bombast ordinarily tossed into that
> role. Van Dam is a very thoughtful singer, who pays great
> attention to what the lyrics are actually SAYING, and the
> nuances the MUSIC calls for. That isn't everyone's cup of
> tea when listening to Wagner, apparently. I'm sure his
> Wotan would have revealed a richness and subtlety that the
> average Wagnerite was never aware the role contained. But
> we'll never know, now, will we? (Sigh)
On the contrary, don't just sigh: "Rage, rage against the dying of the
light" -- Dylan Thomas.
Respectfully,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
David Gray
Dave
"Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
news:1fg2rf9.zm949bw2lvniN%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
Richard Loeb
has, for my money
the best Alberich on records Benno Kusche
"Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
news:1fg2rf9.zm949bw2lvniN%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
Gary Sikon
HO-HOHOHO-HOHOHO-HOHOHO-HOHOHOnews:6Ci19.382966$Im2.19...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Edward A. Cowan
> I have the Kempe cycle from Bayreuth. What would you like to know?
In particular, I should like to know whether the sound is generally good
and whether the performances compare well or not with other Bayreuth
_Ring_ cycles (e.g., Keilberth 1952, Krauss 1953, Kna 1956 and 1958)...
Thanks in advance!
--E.A.C.
David Gray
good. I don't have the Keilberth 52 or the Kna 56. I have the Gala Krauss
53 and the Arkadia Kna 58. I would say sound quality is better than either
of those. Regarding performance on balance it may be a bit inferior but
with a performance the length of the Ring some parts are probably superior.
Certainly worth investigating, it is probably the best sound of any Ring
from that time period. The Kempe recording I have is from the festival in
1960 and is put out by "Audiophile Classics." I got it in Cambridge a
couple of years ago for forty pounds if I recollect correctly. Please bear
in my the items you enquired about are somewhat subjective in nature and
these are merely my opinions.
Dave
"Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
news:1fg3pgf.coqhmd8zhqg2N%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
Richard Loeb
"David Gray" <gray...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:wWE19.403898$Im2.20...@bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Edward A. Cowan
shall be looking for it. In the 1950s, Kempe earned golden opinions,
notably in _Opera_ magazine, for his performances of the _Ring_. Since I
cherish his other Wagner recordings (two each of _Meistersinger_ and
_Lohengrin_), I have cherished the hope of hearing his _Ring_
eventually...
--E.A.C.
David Gray
recording that I did not know. Glad to repay the favour.
Dave
"Edward A. Cowan" <eac...@anet-dfw.com> wrote in message
news:1fg5fkn.43jiclcatm0yN%eac...@anet-dfw.com...
andrew lambert
for around $70 (on Audiophile Classics?). It was no longer available there
this weekend, but they may get more copies in stock. Many Wagnerians
consider this the finest Ring.
andrew
Matthew B. Tepper
news:B96CB8AE.D83%lamb...@nyc.rr.com:
> The Kempe 1960 Ring had been available through the Berkshire Record
> Outlet for around $70 (on Audiophile Classics?). It was no longer
> available there this weekend, but they may get more copies in stock.
> Many Wagnerians consider this the finest Ring.
Really? I've heard that claim made about ("C" means commercial
recording) Böhm (C), Karajan (C), Solti (C), Levine (C), Boulez (C),
Keilberth, Furtwängler (both), various Knas and even "potted," but never
about this one until now.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Top 3 worst UK exports: Mad-cow; Foot-and-mouth; Charlotte Church
David Gray
near half of those you listed.
Dave
"Matthew B. Tepper" <oyţ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ai7m8...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Elizabeth Hubbell
>
> Can't say I'd rate it as my favourite but I would rate it ahead of probably
> near half of those you listed.
>
> Dave
[Geoffrey Riggs wrote]
Seem to recall that Herrmann Uhde is the Wotan here(?)--and that he
actually siiiiings the confounded role--for once!!!! Someone here may
know how come he was able to get away with that........
With ongoing exasperation still simmering,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
===========================================
>
> "Matthew B. Tepper" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Elizabeth Hubbell
all right on rec.music.classical.recordings (this Wotan discussion is
unfolding on both newsgroups), but not on rec.music.opera; it's been
over 24 hrs. now, so.....]
David Gray wrote:
>
> Can't say I'd rate it as my favourite but I would rate it ahead of probably
> near half of those you listed.
>
> Dave
[Geoffrey Riggs wrote]
Seem to recall that Herrmann Uhde is the Wotan here(?)--and that he
actually siiiiings the confounded role--for once!!!! Someone here may
know how come he was able to get away with that........
With ongoing exasperation still simmering,
Geoffrey Riggs
www.operacast.com
===========================================
>
Elizabeth Hubbell
>
> Frankly IMHO Van Dam . for all his intelligence, has neither the volume nor
> the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
> been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
> baritone repertoire.
[Geoffrey Riggs wrote]
....unfortunately, the next two messages' texts have somehow gotten
confounded (on my server anyway)--though the subject heading is still
"Best Wotan"--with the actual texts of (1) reflections from "Andante" on
a "live" Fricsay Fidelio and (2) a typical spat posting involving
Pineiro and Dan Tritter. The original texts of the TWO postings,
following upon Mr. Loeb's remarks here re Van Dam's volume and range,
were as follows:
===================================================================
(A)
Subject:
Re: [ G Riggs] Re: Best Wotan?
Date:
Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:00:55 GMT
From:
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net>
Organization:
EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net
Newsgroups:
rec.music.classical.recordings, rec.music.opera
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7
Richard Loeb wrote:
>
> Frankly IMHO Van Dam . for all his intelligence, has neither the volume nor
> the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
> been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
> baritone repertoire.
[Evelyn Vogt Gamble wrote]
Ever heard him in person? I was thunderstruck by the volume
at his command when he chooses to use it! And as for
range....! (Anyway, Wotan isn't particularly demanding in
terms of vocal range, wuich I assume is what you mean.)
However, as Ms. Hubbell says, the music itself doesn't
really call for the bombast ordinarily tossed into that
role. Van Dam is a very thoughtful singer, who pays great
attention to what the lyrics are actually SAYING, and the
nuances the MUSIC calls for. That isn't everyone's cup of
tea when listening to Wagner, apparently. I'm sure his
Wotan would have revealed a richness and subtlety that the
average Wagnerite was never aware the role contained. But
we'll never know, now, will we? (Sigh)
> "Elizabeth Hubbell" <elizabet...@verizon.net> wrote in message
===================================================================
(B)
Subject:
Re: [ G Riggs] Re: Best Wotan?
Date:
Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:48:20 -0400
From:
Elizabeth Hubbell <elizabet...@verizon.net>
Organization:
www.operacast.com
To:
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" <evg...@earthlink.net>
Newsgroups:
rec.music.classical.recordings, rec.music.opera
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8
"Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)" wrote:
>
> Richard Loeb wrote:
> >
> > Frankly IMHO Van Dam . for all his intelligence, has neither the volume nor
> > the range to sing that role properly. You gotta have the voice first as has
> > been proven so many times by F-Ds unhappy assumptions of the Wagnerian
> > baritone repertoire.
>
> Ever heard him in person? I was thunderstruck by the volume
> at his command when he chooses to use it! And as for
> range....! (Anyway, Wotan isn't particularly demanding in
> terms of vocal range, wuich I assume is what you mean.)
> However, as Ms. Hubbell says,
[Geoffrey Riggs wrote]