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OT: Mais que se passe-t-il en France ?
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Dan Koren
Jul 2, 2023, 2:06:00 AM7/2/23
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Melmoth?
Andy Evans
Jul 2, 2023, 5:31:18 AM7/2/23
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On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> Melmoth?
Just the police being heavy handed again, but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
I lived for a few years in France around the end of the 60s and early 70s, and had a girlfriend from Marseilles who was a real soixante-huitarde. We made and sold jewellery on the Cote d'Azur and from time to time witnessed the CRS breaking up demonstrations, like when the farmers dumped all their melons in a pyramid on the town square because they couldn't sell them. The CRS had an appalling reputation and when they appeared you sought cover if you had any sense.
The latest shooting incident was just an ordinary policeman, I believe, but France clearly has issues.
> Melmoth?
Just the police being heavy handed again, but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
I lived for a few years in France around the end of the 60s and early 70s, and had a girlfriend from Marseilles who was a real soixante-huitarde. We made and sold jewellery on the Cote d'Azur and from time to time witnessed the CRS breaking up demonstrations, like when the farmers dumped all their melons in a pyramid on the town square because they couldn't sell them. The CRS had an appalling reputation and when they appeared you sought cover if you had any sense.
The latest shooting incident was just an ordinary policeman, I believe, but France clearly has issues.
Dan Koren
Jul 2, 2023, 8:04:21 PM7/2/23
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On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 2:31:18 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > Melmoth?
>
> Just the police being heavy handed again,
> but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
>
> On Sunday, 2 July 2023 at 07:06:00 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > Melmoth?
>
> Just the police being heavy handed again,
> but in this case a wholly unnecessary killing.
>
> The latest shooting incident was just an
> ordinary policeman, I believe, but France
> clearly has issues.
Why do the French put up with Le Macaron?
> ordinary policeman, I believe, but France
> clearly has issues.
dk
raymond....@gmail.com
Jul 2, 2023, 9:41:05 PM7/2/23
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Ray Hall, Taree
Frank Berger
Jul 2, 2023, 10:03:57 PM7/2/23
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Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 4:20:42 AM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 03:03:57 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> The major media seems not to be covering it, but the crowds are shouting a*t*s*e*m*t*c slogans and attacking Jewish institutions.
How do you know this? But anyway, from what I read
> The major media seems not to be covering it, but the crowds are shouting a*t*s*e*m*t*c slogans and attacking Jewish institutions.
"Since the end of the war, antisemitic violence has never completely disappeared. It comes and goes in cycles,
The peaks of violence have followed Israeli Defence Force interventions in the occupied territories. Widely publicised by the media, resulting civilian deaths function as an emotional trigger among those who for reasons of origin or ideology identify with the Palestinians and project their resentment against French Jews who are simply
assumed to be supporters of Israel and Zionism".
https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/Documents/Issues/Religion/Submissions/NonnaMayer2.pdf
Violence against Jews is something nobody should support, just like violence against women, blacks or any other ethnic groups. Lets's make that completely clear. But non-violent mass demonstrations against the actions of the State of Israel are entirely understandable. Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world away from those of a large part of the international community, who see Netanyahu's regime as a bunch of murdering carpetbaggers. A lot of people are not going to remain silent about the violent invasion of the West Bank, which they see as war crimes. Their frustration is only increased by the fact that their governments refuse to publicly censor the invasion. So some of the responsibility lies with government policies, hence the demonstrations.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 5:57:38 AM7/3/23
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On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:20:42 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world
>
Frank knows far more about day to day life and events in Israel
>
> Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world
>
than you do. And he knows what he knows first hand rather than
through the filters or traditionally anti-Zionist and anti-Semitic
Western European papers.
> away from those of a large part of the international community,
goes on in Israel. On must be seriously deranged to think otherwise.
You have every right to fuck your own brain as much as you like, but
you have absolutely no rights to fuck other people's brains. STFU !!!
Message has been deleted
Herman
Jul 3, 2023, 7:46:37 AM7/3/23
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On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 11:57:38 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> You have every right to fuck your own brain as much as you like, but
> you have absolutely no rights to fuck other people's brains. STFU !!!
RMCR owner speaking?
>
> You have every right to fuck your own brain as much as you like, but
> you have absolutely no rights to fuck other people's brains. STFU !!!
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 7:53:31 AM7/3/23
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On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 3:13:46 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:57:38 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> There is mass international criticism of
Yada, yada. Millions parroting one another
does not amount to "mass criticism".
> Israel's invasion of the Left Bank
Hold it! Israel did not "invade" the Left Bank.
It was ATTACKED by Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.
In fact, Golda Meir met with King Hussein in
secret days before the war started to ask him
to stay out of the fracas, and promised Israel
would not attack if he stayed put. This is so
well known and widely documented that to
ignore it amounts to deliberate provocation.
Read som ehistory, man.
> which is getting worse and worse and which
> is steadily adding up to war crimes.
Parroting Palestinian Propaganda?
> As usual you think you're right
As usual, I know what I am talking about.
As usual, you don't.
> and the rest of the world can go to hell.
The "rest of the world" has no business
trying to adjudicate a conflict they either
do not understand, or actually triggered.
> Could it be that it's actually the other
> way around......
Brainfucked imbecile and terrorist.
GO FUCK YOURSELF !!!
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 10:57:38 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> There is mass international criticism of
Yada, yada. Millions parroting one another
does not amount to "mass criticism".
> Israel's invasion of the Left Bank
Hold it! Israel did not "invade" the Left Bank.
It was ATTACKED by Egypt, Syria, and Jordan.
In fact, Golda Meir met with King Hussein in
secret days before the war started to ask him
to stay out of the fracas, and promised Israel
would not attack if he stayed put. This is so
well known and widely documented that to
ignore it amounts to deliberate provocation.
Read som ehistory, man.
> which is getting worse and worse and which
> is steadily adding up to war crimes.
Parroting Palestinian Propaganda?
> As usual you think you're right
As usual, I know what I am talking about.
As usual, you don't.
> and the rest of the world can go to hell.
The "rest of the world" has no business
trying to adjudicate a conflict they either
do not understand, or actually triggered.
> Could it be that it's actually the other
> way around......
Brainfucked imbecile and terrorist.
GO FUCK YOURSELF !!!
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:21:05 AM7/3/23
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Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 8:37:14 AM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 13:21:05 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable, you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.
No, that's not true. What I said was that non-violent mass demonstrations are understandable in this case. As you well know, there are mass demonstrations in Israel against the government. It's not just a French issue.
> So despite saying violence against French Jews is not justifiable, you come within a hair[s breadth of condoning it.
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 12:05:35 PM7/3/23
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On 7/3/2023 8:42 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....
>
> However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.
>
> The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every country have right and left political parties that don't agree with each other if they all "know the country" perfectly well?
i
Are you aware that there is little difference between the moderate left and the moderate right in Israeli politics when it comes to the defense of Israeli citizens and it is the right that made peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan? I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."
>
> You have one interpretation of the Israeli conflict, others have other interpretations. The idea that you're right because you "know the country" is a purely juvenile piece of sloppy thinking.
>
Sloppy thinking is that the Palestinian leadership even wants a two-state solution, and that thinking that a two-state solution is even possible.
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....
>
> However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.
>
> The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every country have right and left political parties that don't agree with each other if they all "know the country" perfectly well?
i
Are you aware that there is little difference between the moderate left and the moderate right in Israeli politics when it comes to the defense of Israeli citizens and it is the right that made peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan? I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."
>
> You have one interpretation of the Israeli conflict, others have other interpretations. The idea that you're right because you "know the country" is a purely juvenile piece of sloppy thinking.
>
Sloppy thinking is that the Palestinian leadership even wants a two-state solution, and that thinking that a two-state solution is even possible.
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 12:24:03 PM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:05:35 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
....... I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."
> >
Frank, I'm completely aware that you are heavily invested in Israel and that you love the country.
But I can't see any way of justifying the invasion of the West Bank and the number of Palestinians who are being killed day by day just for protesting against the illegal occupation of the land they live in and the relentless advance of new homes built on their land. I know you're going to tell me it's not their land, but I just don't buy that, and neither do many, many others including the UN itself. You will then tell me that the UN is biased, and so it goes on.
....... I've said this before but you never respond, preferring to demonize the "current government."
> >
Frank, I'm completely aware that you are heavily invested in Israel and that you love the country.
But I can't see any way of justifying the invasion of the West Bank and the number of Palestinians who are being killed day by day just for protesting against the illegal occupation of the land they live in and the relentless advance of new homes built on their land. I know you're going to tell me it's not their land, but I just don't buy that, and neither do many, many others including the UN itself. You will then tell me that the UN is biased, and so it goes on.
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 12:24:37 PM7/3/23
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Simply, there is simply no one for Israel to even talk to about a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. No one in Palestinian leadership wants anything than to destroy Israel. Until there is Palestinian leadership that is sincere about existing peacefully (and can enforce that) with Israel, there is simply nothing for Israel to talk about. The Islamic Jihad, Hamas Hezbollah and other groups, supported by Iran are waging war on Israel, not to get possession of the West Bank (they already have Gaza, because Israel gave it to them). They have been designated "terrorist groups" by much of the international community you love to cite.
More points. When terrorists fire rockets from within civilian areas, like apartment building rooftops, the Geneva Convention holds that as a war crime, the targeted entity has the legal right to respond, even though the likelihood of civilian casualties is high. Do you know that? You never engage in discussing details. Do you think Israel should just allow the civilian populations to be subject to rocket fire?
Why do the Palestinians have a greater claim to the West Bank than Israel? Make your own judgement. Look at the history. Don't cite the "international community." Most of them have given up on the Palestinians anyway. It's only the General Assembly, with it's myriad little Arab and African countries that constitutes your "international community" anyway.
If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it. You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why. It follow than that since bad old Israel is stealing the Palestinian's land, and the only thing they can do about it is terrorism, then terrorism is "understandable," which really means sort of OK. What you don't get is that the facts the Palestinian leadership is to blame for the lack of progress in negotiating peace with Israel. I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 12:32:03 PM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
< You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
<I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 1:08:59 PM7/3/23
to
On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
Yes, there are about 2,000,000 Arab citizens of Israel, who have full legal and civil rights, and who, for the most part, do not commit acts of terrorism. So the basis for your view is that the Palestinians are there (in the West Bank), and you ignore the history of the area. I thought you were more thoughfull than that.
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
>> If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
>
> < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
>
> The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
>
> <I would bet that if the Jewish Israeli population had good reason to believe a Palestinian state would exist in peace with them, I bet 75% of them would support such a state.
>
> Netanyahu and his supporters have made it perfectly clear that there will never be a partition with the Palestinians.
I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.
Message has been deleted
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 2:03:07 PM7/3/23
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On 7/3/2023 1:21 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 18:08:59 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> Neither of us will be alive to see the day that an agreement is reached..
>
> That's for sure...
The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution.
You didn't comment on the facts I presented, which means there already is a Palestinian state, called Jordan which comprises 78% of historical Palestine. I wonder if you know that there was no place called Palestine, until the Romans destroyed the Jewish state and renamed it "Palestine" (derived from Philistine, the Philistines having nothing to do with anything).
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 18:08:59 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>> Neither of us will be alive to see the day that an agreement is reached..
>
> That's for sure...
>
>> I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.
>
> That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.
>> I predict that the solution will be a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation that includes much of the West Bank. You know, or you should, that Jordan was carved out of then-Palestine in 1917 (amounting to 78% of then-Palestine and there is no distinction culturally and religiously between the Palestinians and the majority of Jordanians.
>
The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution.
You didn't comment on the facts I presented, which means there already is a Palestinian state, called Jordan which comprises 78% of historical Palestine. I wonder if you know that there was no place called Palestine, until the Romans destroyed the Jewish state and renamed it "Palestine" (derived from Philistine, the Philistines having nothing to do with anything).
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 3:33:18 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 10:08:59 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
> >
> > The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
> >
> Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.
It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
> On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
> >
> > The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
> >
> Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.
dk
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 3:41:31 PM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 20:33:18 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>
> dk
You really have no idea, do you.......
> It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>
> dk
This is completely unintelligible, and not for the first time.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 3:42:39 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:32:03 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that
> > you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first
> > place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would
> not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
This is beyond bizarre. Brits are not the only people living in the
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > If I had to answer for you and were honest, I would say that
> > you don't really recognize Israel's right to exist in the first
> > place, or at least are uncomfortable with it.
>
> No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would
> not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
UK. By your argument, every one of UK's tribes deserves a state
of their own. Why doesn't the UK split itself apart into Scotland,
Wales, and whatever else is left? Fix your own problems before
lecturing others!
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 3:44:49 PM7/3/23
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You need to trim your brush. Your logic
is broken!
dk
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 3:45:38 PM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 20:42:39 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would
> > not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
> This is beyond bizarre. ......
> > No that's absolutely not true, I never ever said that and I would
> > not do so. But Jews are not the only people living in Israel.
Frank already responded that there are 2,000,000 Arabs living in Israel. My conversations with Frank are not your business, anyway.
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 3:57:27 PM7/3/23
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On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 19:03:07 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.
> The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution. >
Well, that's a "solution" in theory. In practice I can't see Israel giving up an inch of its soil, but who knows.
> > That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.
> The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution. >
> You didn't comment on the facts I presented, which means there already is a Palestinian state, called Jordan which comprises 78% of historical Palestine. I wonder if you know that there was no place called Palestine, until the Romans destroyed the Jewish state and renamed it "Palestine" (derived from Philistine, the Philistines having nothing to do with anything).
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 4:18:47 PM7/3/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 4:20:46 PM7/3/23
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It was perfectly intelligible, whether we you and I agree with it. You said Israel is destroying Palestinian homes or villages or something in order to establish settlements. That was wrong. Where did you learn that? Why do you think that?
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 4:22:54 PM7/3/23
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Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:24:09 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:20:42 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world
> away from those of a large part of the international community,
You seem to have an obsession with the "international community"
>
> Frank's interpretation of events in the West Bank are a world
> away from those of a large part of the international community,
as if the term had any meaning.
Where was the "international community" when the Nazis killed 6
million Jews (almost 60% of all Jewish people) during WWII? IIRC
the UK closed its borders to Jewish refugees from Europe during
the decade before the war.
Where was the "international community" when the Arab states
rejected the UN partition plan in 1947 and attacked Israel on the
very day it declared independence? In your view of the world it is
apparently OK for some to ignore the "international community"
when convenient.
Where was the "international community" when Egypt expelled the
UNEF in May 1967 and closed the Read Sea and the Gulf of Akaba
to Israeli ships, which led directly to the 6 Day War?
Where was the "international community" when Japanese Red Army
terrorists opened fire on travellers at Lod Airport in May 1972, killing
and/or wounding more than 130 civilians?
Where was the "international community" when Dizengoff Center
was bombed by Palestinian terorrists in March 1996, killing and/or
wounding more than 130 civilians? Did the UK government say
anything? Did Andy Evans say anything on r.m.c.r.?
Where was the "international community" when Sbarro's Pizzeria in
Jerusalem was bombed by Palestinian terorrists in August 2001,
killing and/or wounding more than 130 civilians? Did the UK say
anything? Did Andy Evans say anything on r.m.c.r.?
Where was the "international community" when Mahane Yehuda
Market was bombed by Palestinian terorrists in 1997 and 2002,
killing and/or wounding more than 130 civilians? Did the UK say
anything? Did Andy Evans say anything on r.m.c.r.?
We could go on forever, however the essence of the matter is
obvious: you keep invoking the "international community" in
order to cover up your own anti-semitic, anti-Zionist, and
anti-Israeli prejudices.
"Intellectual anti-semitism" has long been a part of British
culture and of the British political scene. You are part of it.
You are an excrement.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:27:37 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:18:47 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/3/2023 3:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 10:08:59 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> >>> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>
> >>> < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
> >>>
> >>> The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
> >>>
> >> Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.
> >
> > It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>
> On 7/3/2023 3:33 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 10:08:59 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> >> On 7/3/2023 12:32 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> >>> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 17:24:37 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>>
> >>> < You certainly have decided that the West Bank "belongs" to the Palestinians, but never really say why.
> >>>
> >>> The reason why is that the land is lived on by Palestinians, whose homes are being destroyed by the encroaching settlers.
> >>>
> >> Not really true. Israel is establishes "settlements" on land that is not occupied by Palestinians. Your facts are simply wrong.
> >
> > It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>
> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
> Sorry, Andy, but that's what I think. I know you are
> a good person,
> but your just wrong on this. All the facts i throw at
> you don't make a dent, as though your are
> surrounded by progressive shield.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:31:08 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:32:03 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> Netanyahu and his supporters have made it perfectly clear
> that there will never be a partition with the Palestinians.
The "Palestinians" have made it perfectly clear since the
>
> Netanyahu and his supporters have made it perfectly clear
> that there will never be a partition with the Palestinians.
1920s they do not want a partition or a two state solution.
Stop throwing sand into our eyes.
Excrement.
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 4:35:53 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:18:47 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
> >
> > dk
> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left. Sorry, Andy, but that's what I think. I know you are a good person, but your just wrong on this. All the facts i throw at you don't make a dent, as though your are surrounded by progressive shield.
I'm nobody's dupe. As a psychologist my job for 30 years was the interpretation of human behaviour. I apply the same principles and methodology to whatever personalities and situations I study. I was also a journalist for a couple of years and have a postgrad degree in Journalism. So yet more university and practical training (Reuters) in analysing situations.
> > It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
> >
> > dk
> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left. Sorry, Andy, but that's what I think. I know you are a good person, but your just wrong on this. All the facts i throw at you don't make a dent, as though your are surrounded by progressive shield.
We simply have different views on the issue - you don't have to look beyond that.
Incidentally, the Labour Party in the UK is totally pro-Zionist and censors any of its MPs who speak out against the current Israeli state. They get accused of antisemitism. The Labour leader is currently Jewish.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:38:08 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 5:42:43 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....
>
> However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.
>
> The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the
> correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every
> country have right and left political parties that don't
> agree with each other if they all "know the country"
> perfectly well?
There is no such disagreement in Israel about security
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 12:53:31 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote.....
>
> However loudly you shout it doesn't make you any more right.
>
> The idea that "you have to know the country to arrive at the
> correct political viewpoint" is laughable. Why does every
> country have right and left political parties that don't
> agree with each other if they all "know the country"
> perfectly well?
matters. You must be hallucinating.
> You have one interpretation of the Israeli conflict,
> others have other interpretations.
As a dumb Britich gasbag without a direct stake in the
matter, you have no right to an "interpretation". Why
don't you worry instead about the legacy of Liz and
Charlie and how the Brits screwed the world for
centuries?
> The idea that you're right because you "know the
> country" is a purely juvenile piece of sloppy thinking.
vague "international community" is beyond idiotic.
Brainfucked imbecile.
dk
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 4:39:41 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:27:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
> You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
The Labour party in the UK is pro-Zionist. You are talking utter nonsense. And this is, alas, what one comes to expect of you these days. There may have been a good brain in your body at some stage, but it's well gone by now.
> > I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
> You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:45:03 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 9:24:03 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> But I can't see any way of justifying the invasion of the West Bank
There was no "invasion" of the West Bank.
>
> But I can't see any way of justifying the invasion of the West Bank
Israel was attacked by Jordan. Idiot King
Hussein placed the Jordanian Army under
Egyption command on June 1, 1967.
Can you read? Brainfucked imbecile!
dk
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 4:45:13 PM7/3/23
to
On 7/3/2023 3:57 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 19:03:07 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.
>> The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution. >
>
> Well, that's a "solution" in theory. In practice I can't see Israel giving up an inch of its soil, but who knows.
Again, your ignorance is telling. You have just referred to the West Bank as Israel's soil. Presumably you meant the land they occupy. You know that Israel has in several occasions offered the Palestinians a state in, I think, about 90% of the West Bank and the offer was rejected., You know that, right? And Israel already gave up Gaza in exchanged for a peace treaty with Egypt. Evidence that you are wrong.
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 19:03:07 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> That's an interesting point of view, and one which seems plausible to me. Thanks for that.
>> The proposal for a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation comes from a Saudi Arabian prince. The mainstream media and politicians have completely ignored this proposal, being so heavily invested in the two-state solution. >
>
> Well, that's a "solution" in theory. In practice I can't see Israel giving up an inch of its soil, but who knows.
>
>> You didn't comment on the facts I presented, which means there already is a Palestinian state, called Jordan which comprises 78% of historical Palestine. I wonder if you know that there was no place called Palestine, until the Romans destroyed the Jewish state and renamed it "Palestine" (derived from Philistine, the Philistines having nothing to do with anything).
>
> That's all indeed some very interesting history, and as you know more than I do, the Middle East has a very complex history. But I can't quite see the Romans being a basis for solving a problem that exists in 2023. I would base ownership of the land on those currently living there and who have their homes there. Palestinians are being evicted from their homes to make way for Jews, and that's not right.
More facts. Do you know that after the Romans put down the Jewish rebellion of 132-135 A.D. they salted the earth and cut down most of the trees. The "Land of Milk and Honey" became almost uninhabitable. There were few Jews (though there was never a time that there were no Jews there, especially in Jerusalem) and few Arabs. In the late 19th Century Jews mostly from Eastern Europe "returned" to the land of their ancestors and built up the land, drained swamps, conquered Malaria, and built an economy. The economic growth created opportunities for Arabs from all over the Arab word. In 1964 (?) Arafat decided that the descendants of these people were "Palestinians." He invented the concept. There has never been a Palestinian state. Up until the establishment of Israel in 1948, the word "Palestinian" as used by the British referred to Jews. IF you came home from vacation and found some squatters living in your home or even just on your land, you would kick them out. I'm not sure the Palestinians should not be considered squatters, with regard to the West Bank. That is not to say that we can't have sympathy for Palestinian suffering (not all poor, you know there is a middle class, especially among Israeli Arabs whose economic state exceeds that of most of the Arab world. But to give them all of the West Bank as the solution doesn't make sense to me when their only claim is that they are there and someone else has a real claim.
Todd M. McComb
Jul 3, 2023, 4:47:35 PM7/3/23
to
In article <9ade66b3-7b57-4a98...@googlegroups.com>,
but was instead replaced by an AI....
I mean, even if MS isn't some kind of bot himself, he's certainly
using AI to make some of his postings. It looks like there will
be a lot more of this -- on top of when posters explicitly quote
the AI bots.
Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>There may have been a good brain in your body at some stage, but
>it's well gone by now.
I start to wonder if DK never actually returned from his retirement,
>There may have been a good brain in your body at some stage, but
>it's well gone by now.
but was instead replaced by an AI....
I mean, even if MS isn't some kind of bot himself, he's certainly
using AI to make some of his postings. It looks like there will
be a lot more of this -- on top of when posters explicitly quote
the AI bots.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 4:51:16 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:47:35 PM UTC-7, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <9ade66b3-7b57-4a98...@googlegroups.com>,
> Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There may have been a good brain in your body
> > at some stage, but it's well gone by now.
>
> I start to wonder if DK never actually returned
> from his retirement, but was instead replaced
> by an AI....
>
ROTFL !!!
> In article <9ade66b3-7b57-4a98...@googlegroups.com>,
> Andy Evans <performan...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There may have been a good brain in your body
> > at some stage, but it's well gone by now.
>
> I start to wonder if DK never actually returned
> from his retirement, but was instead replaced
> by an AI....
>
dk
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 4:55:58 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:45:13 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> You ignorance of basic facts and history says that are unqualified to have any opinion at all about the issue.
>
I have every right to make up my own mind about international affairs using the material currently available from several different sources, as anybody else would.
> You ignorance of basic facts and history says that are unqualified to have any opinion at all about the issue.
>
It's pointless continuing to maintain that you are right about everything when you clearly start from an easily identifiable bias. Sorry. You have a point of view. So do others.
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 5:00:39 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:45:13 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> Again, your ignorance is telling. You have just referred to
> the West Bank as Israel's soil. Presumably you meant the
> land they occupy. You know that Israel has in several occasions
> offered the Palestinians a state in, I think, about 90% of the West
> Bank and the offer was rejected., You know that, right?
No, he doesn't. Andy automatically filters out all facts that
>
> Again, your ignorance is telling. You have just referred to
> the West Bank as Israel's soil. Presumably you meant the
> land they occupy. You know that Israel has in several occasions
> offered the Palestinians a state in, I think, about 90% of the West
> Bank and the offer was rejected., You know that, right?
do not fit his theories. Apparently he has not read Clinton's
memoirs about the Camp David negotiations, or even the
Wikipedia summary:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit
He assumes that the failure of the negotiations was a
result of Israeli intransingence, rather than a result of
Palestinian intransigence. Andy's assumption seems
to be simply that Israel's negotiators were mean and
stingy, while the Palestinians were generous. Andy
clearly lives in a fantasy world. He does not think
independently. All he does is cut and paste slogans
like "international community".
FUCK YOU ANDY!
dk
Todd M. McComb
Jul 3, 2023, 5:08:52 PM7/3/23
to
In article <f9938b39-4b43-4df8...@googlegroups.com>,
Is that funny? It seems charitable.
Were you always such an asshole? Maybe I just didn't notice....
I mean, even with people who are trying to support you and be nice,
Larry & Michael & Owen, you've been a jerk in the past few days,
just one after another.
Were you always such an asshole? Maybe I just didn't notice....
I mean, even with people who are trying to support you and be nice,
Larry & Michael & Owen, you've been a jerk in the past few days,
just one after another.
Message has been deleted
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 6:18:16 PM7/3/23
to
On 7/3/2023 4:35 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:18:47 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>>>
>>> dk
>> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left. Sorry, Andy, but that's what I think. I know you are a good person, but your just wrong on this. All the facts i throw at you don't make a dent, as though your are surrounded by progressive shield.
>
> I'm nobody's dupe. As a psychologist my job for 30 years was the interpretation of human behaviour. I apply the same principles and methodology to whatever personalities and situations I study. I was also a journalist for a couple of years and have a postgrad degree in Journalism. So yet more university and practical training (Reuters) in analysing situations.
>
> We simply have different views on the issue - you don't have to look beyond that.
>
As I said, which you may not have read yet, you don't seem to know enough about the region to have valid viewpoint one way or the other. You might as well have flipped a coin.
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:18:47 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>> It is much worse: his "facts" are DELIBERATELY wrong!
>>>
>>> dk
>> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left. Sorry, Andy, but that's what I think. I know you are a good person, but your just wrong on this. All the facts i throw at you don't make a dent, as though your are surrounded by progressive shield.
>
> I'm nobody's dupe. As a psychologist my job for 30 years was the interpretation of human behaviour. I apply the same principles and methodology to whatever personalities and situations I study. I was also a journalist for a couple of years and have a postgrad degree in Journalism. So yet more university and practical training (Reuters) in analysing situations.
>
> We simply have different views on the issue - you don't have to look beyond that.
>
> Incidentally, the Labour Party in the UK is totally pro-Zionist and censors any of its MPs who speak out against the current Israeli state. They get accused of antisemitism. The Labour leader >is currently Jewish.
You conveniently have omitted long-standing antisemitism on the Labor party that was "officially" ended with the acceptance of the EHRC report in 2020. The Party is no longer "officially" antisemitic. So all those people who were antisemitic suddenly turned over new leaves. Or do you think Corbyn was the only one. Nevertheless, it seems like a step forward.
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 6:19:57 PM7/3/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 6:21:35 PM7/3/23
to
Andy Evans
Jul 3, 2023, 6:33:40 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 23:18:16 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
The Labour leader >is currently Jewish.
> Keir Starmer is Jewish???
>
I checked again and it's his wife who is Jewish, and their 2 children are being raised as Jewish. So he identifies as a Jewish family.
The Labour leader >is currently Jewish.
> Keir Starmer is Jewish???
>
HT
Jul 3, 2023, 6:52:19 PM7/3/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 00:21:35 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
> Yes. I forgot to mention the point that traditionally, invaded countries get to keep what they take. Only Israel is expected to give it back.
Are you sure? About the past, and about the present?
Henk
> Yes. I forgot to mention the point that traditionally, invaded countries get to keep what they take. Only Israel is expected to give it back.
Henk
Dan Koren
Jul 3, 2023, 7:07:04 PM7/3/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:39:41 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:27:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
>
> > You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> > anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
>
> The Labour party in the UK is pro-Zionist.
Evidence, please?
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:27:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
>
> > You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> > anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
>
> The Labour party in the UK is pro-Zionist.
As far as one can tell from printed materials,
UK politicians of all colors have alwaya been,
and still are, leaning towards the Arab sides
of all relevant stories.
There may be subtle shades of differences
between Labor and Tories, that are difficult
to notice without magnifiers.
There appears to be a bit of rapprochement
in military affairs lately, especially so since
it was noticed the Challenger's armor is not
as good as the Merkava's, and the UK sought
to license the latter.
dk
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:27:09 PM7/3/23
to
Second, I never said I was right about everything.
Third, I may well be biased against the Palestinians for firing rockets at my daughter and family (or any other civilians they can hit), but I have bombarded you with facts that can be confirmed if you would take the trouble (you won't) that weigh in Israel's favor. I could also bombard you with documented retractions in the media regarding so-called Israeli atrocities that never took place. (these stories are planted by Palestinian propogandists, but the Western media never checks the accuracy until they have to retract later) but the Israel-haters swallow hook, line and singer. You have contested non of them and rely instead on the fact there are a lot of Palestinians.
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:30:19 PM7/3/23
to
On 7/3/2023 5:17 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
>> dk
>
> I'm usually accused of being too independent thinking. I started the first psychology practice dedicated to performers in the UK. I designed and led the first MA course in Performance Health in the UK. I was the first performance coach to work in a UK rock school, where I designed a lot of the course content. I've published 5 books in my speciality.
>
> Meanwhile you just rant and feed cats.....
What the f*ck does that have to do with your attitude towards Israel. You've revealed yourself to be ignorant of facts. How can you assert that your opinion is an informed one? I know very little about the Kurdish desire for independence, and as a result I no opinion about it. Take a lesson.
> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 22:00:39 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
>> Andy clearly lives in a fantasy world. He does not think
>> independently....
>> Andy clearly lives in a fantasy world. He does not think
>> dk
>
> I'm usually accused of being too independent thinking. I started the first psychology practice dedicated to performers in the UK. I designed and led the first MA course in Performance Health in the UK. I was the first performance coach to work in a UK rock school, where I designed a lot of the course content. I've published 5 books in my speciality.
>
> Meanwhile you just rant and feed cats.....
What the f*ck does that have to do with your attitude towards Israel. You've revealed yourself to be ignorant of facts. How can you assert that your opinion is an informed one? I know very little about the Kurdish desire for independence, and as a result I no opinion about it. Take a lesson.
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:49:12 PM7/3/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:54:46 PM7/3/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 3, 2023, 8:58:52 PM7/3/23
to
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 3:11:18 AM7/4/23
to
Let's follow the course of an "independent journalist" sent to Israel by his/her news agency. On arrival his/her job would be to assess the situation and separate facts from non-facts.
1. The first thing that would stand out is that the portion of land known as "Israel" has been the subject of conflict which has gone on forever and which shown no signs of any resolution. The journalist would therefore expect at least two different, but most likely several more, very strongly held interpretations of history and current events. He/she would not be in any way satisfied with a single "correct" interpretation since this is a notorious conflict zone.
2. The journalist would be confronted with several interpretations by political entities. Knowing that politicians routinely manipulate data on a worldwide basis he/she would start by accepting that data is being manipulated and look for an explanation of this manipulation, considering the usual factors of bias, corruption, vested interests etc. The journalist would note that the Israeli state has advanced skills in data manipulation which they sell to the rest of the world, and so would anticipate some very skilful manipulation.
3. The journalist would start by collecting "facts". The basic question of "ownership of land" starts with the fundamental assumption that no animal or human "owns" any part of the Earth, they simply occupy it on a temporary basis. Any question of "right of ownership" is therefore not a fact but an argument. Current occupation of a piece of land is much closer to a "fact", and though it could be disputed it is as close to a "fact" as you are going to get. The journalist would note that portions of land occupied by people identifying as Palestinians are being transferred to people identifying as Jews. This "fact" would need to be explored and explained.
4. The journalist would note the "fact" that people identifying as Palestinian are being killed on an almost daily basis in much larger numbers than people identifying as Jews. This would have to be explored and explained.
5. The journalist would note the "fact" that even amongst the Jewish population there are mass protests against the Netanyahu regime. These protest come from Jewish citizens who have equal right to claim they know as much about living in Israel as anybody else does. The journalist would therefore reject the proposal that "inhabitants of Israel have one truth and anybody not living here is ignorant and therefore has no right to any opinion". The journalist would note that the inhabitants of Israel have several arguments which they individually and collectively hold to be "truths".
6. If the journalist returned to his/her news agency and told them "I have decided to accept the version of events given by the Netanyahu government because they live there and know what's going on and I'm just an ignorant foreigner, so that's what I will be sending back to you in dispatches", then he/she would be sacked on he spot for gross incompetence and laughed at mercilessly in the pub for weeks, months and years thereafter.
1. The first thing that would stand out is that the portion of land known as "Israel" has been the subject of conflict which has gone on forever and which shown no signs of any resolution. The journalist would therefore expect at least two different, but most likely several more, very strongly held interpretations of history and current events. He/she would not be in any way satisfied with a single "correct" interpretation since this is a notorious conflict zone.
2. The journalist would be confronted with several interpretations by political entities. Knowing that politicians routinely manipulate data on a worldwide basis he/she would start by accepting that data is being manipulated and look for an explanation of this manipulation, considering the usual factors of bias, corruption, vested interests etc. The journalist would note that the Israeli state has advanced skills in data manipulation which they sell to the rest of the world, and so would anticipate some very skilful manipulation.
3. The journalist would start by collecting "facts". The basic question of "ownership of land" starts with the fundamental assumption that no animal or human "owns" any part of the Earth, they simply occupy it on a temporary basis. Any question of "right of ownership" is therefore not a fact but an argument. Current occupation of a piece of land is much closer to a "fact", and though it could be disputed it is as close to a "fact" as you are going to get. The journalist would note that portions of land occupied by people identifying as Palestinians are being transferred to people identifying as Jews. This "fact" would need to be explored and explained.
4. The journalist would note the "fact" that people identifying as Palestinian are being killed on an almost daily basis in much larger numbers than people identifying as Jews. This would have to be explored and explained.
5. The journalist would note the "fact" that even amongst the Jewish population there are mass protests against the Netanyahu regime. These protest come from Jewish citizens who have equal right to claim they know as much about living in Israel as anybody else does. The journalist would therefore reject the proposal that "inhabitants of Israel have one truth and anybody not living here is ignorant and therefore has no right to any opinion". The journalist would note that the inhabitants of Israel have several arguments which they individually and collectively hold to be "truths".
6. If the journalist returned to his/her news agency and told them "I have decided to accept the version of events given by the Netanyahu government because they live there and know what's going on and I'm just an ignorant foreigner, so that's what I will be sending back to you in dispatches", then he/she would be sacked on he spot for gross incompetence and laughed at mercilessly in the pub for weeks, months and years thereafter.
Message has been deleted
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 4:05:22 AM7/4/23
to
Do you have actual factual evidence to back up this story? I
doubt it. This sounds like your own fantasy and hallucination.
You are truly deranged.
doubt it. This sounds like your own fantasy and hallucination.
You are truly deranged.
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 4:06:25 AM7/4/23
to
On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 5:58:52 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/3/2023 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:39:41 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> >> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:27:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
> >>
> >>> You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> >>> anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
> >>
> >> The Labour party in the UK is pro-Zionist.
> >
> > Evidence, please?
> >
> > As far as one can tell from printed materials,
> > UK politicians of all colors have alwaya been,
> > and still are, leaning towards the Arab sides
> > of all relevant stories.
> >
> > There may be subtle shades of differences
> > between Labor and Tories, that are difficult
> > to notice without magnifiers.
> >
> > There appears to be a bit of rapprochement
> > in military affairs lately, especially so since
> > it was noticed the Challenger's armor is not
> > as good as the Merkava's, and the UK sought
> > to license the latter.
>
> On 7/3/2023 7:07 PM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 1:39:41 PM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> >> On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 21:27:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> >>>> I doubt that. I think he is a dupe of the anti-Zionist Left.
> >>
> >>> You may be too charitable. He is not a "dupe of the
> >>> anti-Zionist Left". He is part of the anti-Zionist Left.
> >>
> >> The Labour party in the UK is pro-Zionist.
> >
> > Evidence, please?
> >
> > As far as one can tell from printed materials,
> > UK politicians of all colors have alwaya been,
> > and still are, leaning towards the Arab sides
> > of all relevant stories.
> >
> > There may be subtle shades of differences
> > between Labor and Tories, that are difficult
> > to notice without magnifiers.
> >
> > There appears to be a bit of rapprochement
> > in military affairs lately, especially so since
> > it was noticed the Challenger's armor is not
> > as good as the Merkava's, and the UK sought
> > to license the latter.
>
> There seems to be a clear change in direction
> under Starmer's leadership. Corbyn is out of
< favor. Of course, he was not the only antisemite
> in the Labor Party so we'll see.
There are probably many more who are not as
> under Starmer's leadership. Corbyn is out of
< favor. Of course, he was not the only antisemite
> in the Labor Party so we'll see.
visible as the party "leaders".
dk
Message has been deleted
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 4:13:14 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
>
> it seems Dan was completely right
Isn't Dan always right? You know what
my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
> when he said that Andy deliberately
> suppresses facts -
I don't believe Andy even reaches the
point of suppressing facts. He merely
ignores them.
> Frank is indeed too well-meaning in
> this exchange.
Frank always tries to act like a
gentleman, even when the other
side acts like a hooligan. I doubt
this is an effective strategy. The
only strategy that works is to
smack them 10x harder than
they smack us. Maybe 100x.
dk
>
> it seems Dan was completely right
Isn't Dan always right? You know what
my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
> when he said that Andy deliberately
> suppresses facts -
I don't believe Andy even reaches the
point of suppressing facts. He merely
ignores them.
> Frank is indeed too well-meaning in
> this exchange.
Frank always tries to act like a
gentleman, even when the other
side acts like a hooligan. I doubt
this is an effective strategy. The
only strategy that works is to
smack them 10x harder than
they smack us. Maybe 100x.
dk
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 4:15:09 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 09:05:22 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> Do you have actual factual evidence to back up this story? I
> doubt it. This sounds like your own fantasy and hallucination.
> You are truly deranged.
If your current mission is to out-freak The Freak you seem to be well on the way to that.
> Do you have actual factual evidence to back up this story? I
> doubt it. This sounds like your own fantasy and hallucination.
> You are truly deranged.
It's more and more impossible to take anything you say seriously. The Freak spouts an endless stream of disgusting and libellous drivel, but this is so obvious there's no point in discussing it.
It's getting to the point where what you rant about is no less meaningless and obnoxious on a regular basis so it hardly seems worth replying to you any more.
Message has been deleted
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 4:19:38 AM7/4/23
to
straightforward question. Show actual, tangible, verifiable
fact, or STFU!
dk
Herman
Jul 4, 2023, 4:31:28 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 10:13:14 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > it seems Dan was completely right
> Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
Yes, by all means praise yourself in the third person.
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> >
> > it seems Dan was completely right
> Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
we are after all in a sicko e-institution here...
Herman
Jul 4, 2023, 4:33:58 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 10:13:14 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> even when the other
> side acts like a hooligan. I doubt
> this is an effective strategy. The
> only strategy that works is to
> smack them 10x harder than
> they smack us. Maybe 100x.
>
I don't know how advocating violence works in this context, but it is what hooligans do.
> side acts like a hooligan. I doubt
> this is an effective strategy. The
> only strategy that works is to
> smack them 10x harder than
> they smack us. Maybe 100x.
>
AE did not talk about violence. You do.
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 4:51:33 AM7/4/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 02:54:46 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
Grandchildren visiting is always a pleasure. Have a good time. All the best with your floors. I hope for you that they'll get it right on the first attempt.
I won't advise you to forget about Israel for a while. You don't want and wouldn't be able to, as one of its staunchest defenders.
All the best.
Henk
I won't advise you to forget about Israel for a while. You don't want and wouldn't be able to, as one of its staunchest defenders.
All the best.
Henk
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 5:24:45 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 09:51:33 UTC+1, HT wrote:
> Grandchildren visiting is always a pleasure. Have a good time. All the best with your floors. I hope for you that they'll get it right on the first attempt.
>
> I won't advise you to forget about Israel for a while. You don't want and wouldn't be able to, as one of its staunchest defenders.
>
> All the best.
>
> Henk
I'll join Henk in wishing you good times with your grandchildren. Floors are pretty fundamental, so to speak, as well.
> Grandchildren visiting is always a pleasure. Have a good time. All the best with your floors. I hope for you that they'll get it right on the first attempt.
>
> I won't advise you to forget about Israel for a while. You don't want and wouldn't be able to, as one of its staunchest defenders.
>
> All the best.
>
> Henk
Andy
Message has been deleted
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:17:14 AM7/4/23
to
I said if you "smack" me, I will
"smack" you back 10x harder.
As usual, you ignored all the
context and assumed a strict
literalist interpretation of every
word. I wonder on what kind of
paper your linguistics diploma
was printed on.
As to Andy, he suck up to the
PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
dk
Herman
Jul 4, 2023, 6:20:49 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> I did not talk about "violence".
> I said if you "smack" me, I will
> "smack" you back 10x harder.
>
that's talking about violence, period.
>
> I did not talk about "violence".
> I said if you "smack" me, I will
> "smack" you back 10x harder.
>
Herman
Jul 4, 2023, 6:22:49 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>
> As to Andy, he suck up to the
> PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
>
no he does not.
> PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
>
it's like talking to a third-grader.
"but he started!"
Message has been deleted
JohnGavin
Jul 4, 2023, 7:18:44 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 6:30:29 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
Here is a viewpoint that feels and sounds right and just:
https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/
> On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 11:17:14 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > As to Andy, he suck up to the
> > PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
> > > dk
> Because of your repeated offensive posts I'm going to do the same with you as I do with The Freak - not engage in any further dialogue. I don't have a killfile so what you will get periodically is a message saying "Not replying". Admittedly this is a response in itself and I would prefer to treat you like any other troll and not feed any of your trolling, but for the time being I'll just point out that I'm not replying. At least it's one step towards cleaning up the disgusting mess you leave behind you.
> > As to Andy, he suck up to the
> > PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
> > > dk
Here is a viewpoint that feels and sounds right and just:
https://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-israel-and-the-palestinians/
raymond....@gmail.com
Jul 4, 2023, 7:31:01 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 20:30:29 UTC+10, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 11:17:14 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 11:17:14 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > As to Andy, he suck up to the
> > PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
> > > dk
> Because of your repeated offensive posts I'm going to do the same with you as I do with The Freak - not engage in any further dialogue. I don't have a killfile so what you will get periodically is a message saying "Not replying". Admittedly this is a response in itself and I would prefe6r to treat you like any other troll and not feed any of your trolling, but for the time being I'll just point out that I'm not replying. At least it's one step towards cleaning up the disgusting mess you leave behind you.
> > PLO/Fatah/Hamas/etc...
> > > dk
I'm with you. Fuck these trolls and let them rot in their own shit.
Ray Hall, Taree
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 8:11:06 AM7/4/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 13:18:44 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:
It's at least a viewpoint. The status quo isn't acceptable. I have my doubts about Sanders' two-state solution, but who knows? Besides, the range of possible solutions is quite small.
Henk
Henk
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 10:29:06 AM7/4/23
to
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 10:40:57 AM7/4/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 16:29:06 UTC+2 schreef Frank Berger:
> Sometimes the status quo is the best you can do, at least for some period of time. That's why the status quo came into being in the first place.
I agree with the first sentence. If you don't know where to go, it's better to stay where you are. The second one has a philosophical ring to it. Is there a ratio behind historical events, or are they a convergence of circumstances? Even without asking, I think we'll disagree.
Henk
> Sometimes the status quo is the best you can do, at least for some period of time. That's why the status quo came into being in the first place.
Henk
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 11:19:37 AM7/4/23
to
Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights. This primarily affects Paris-Lyon/Nantes/Bordeaux. There are many exceptions such that it will only affect well under 10% of such travel.
Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
Herman
Jul 4, 2023, 11:24:29 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 5:19:37 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
> Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights.
France of course has a superlative railway system.
> Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights.
Obviously it's only a matter of time and Macron will be paparrazied getting on just one of those shorter airplane rides.
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 11:32:14 AM7/4/23
to
Can you imagine such a decree happening in the USA? There would be gunfights......
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 11:39:08 AM7/4/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 17:19:37 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
Last time I took the train in France was over 60 years ago, from Brussels to Limoges and back. I have no idea what the current popularity of the French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
Henk
> Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights. This primarily affects Paris-Lyon/Nantes/Bordeaux. There are many exceptions such that it will only affect well under 10% of such travel.
>
> Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
Chances are that people will take the car, especially if they must pay more for a train ticket.
>
> Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
Last time I took the train in France was over 60 years ago, from Brussels to Limoges and back. I have no idea what the current popularity of the French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
Henk
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 11:51:31 AM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 16:39:08 UTC+1, HT wrote:
> > Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
> Chances are that people will take the car, especially if they must pay more for a train ticket.
>
> Last time I took the train in France was over 60 years ago, from Brussels to Limoges and back. I have no idea what the current popularity of the French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
>
> Henk
The next logical step to transferring travel to trains would be to heavily subsidise the cost of the tickets. At least in France the SNCF is state-owned. I can see this coming, and one or other of the EU countries is going to offer free train/bus/tram travel if they haven't done so already.
> > Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
> Chances are that people will take the car, especially if they must pay more for a train ticket.
>
> Last time I took the train in France was over 60 years ago, from Brussels to Limoges and back. I have no idea what the current popularity of the French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
>
> Henk
Of course this all goes out of the window with the next pandemic.
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 12:04:23 PM7/4/23
to
Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 17:51:31 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
I wonder if the EU will permit it. It's very strict these days on subsidizing facilities.
Free public transportation? Perhaps in France. I don't see that happening over here. Our government needs every Euro it can lay its hands on.
Henk
Free public transportation? Perhaps in France. I don't see that happening over here. Our government needs every Euro it can lay its hands on.
Henk
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 1:48:28 PM7/4/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 1:51:40 PM7/4/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 1:52:38 PM7/4/23
to
On 7/4/2023 11:39 AM, HT wrote:
> Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 17:19:37 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
>> Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights. This primarily affects Paris-Lyon/Nantes/Bordeaux. There are many exceptions such that it will only affect well under 10% of such travel.
>>
>> Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
>
> Chances are that people will take the car, especially if they must pay more for a train ticket.
Ah, the law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head.
> Op dinsdag 4 juli 2023 om 17:19:37 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:
>> Latest news from France is that they are trialling a decree stating that shorter journeys should be made by train and not by internal flights. This primarily affects Paris-Lyon/Nantes/Bordeaux. There are many exceptions such that it will only affect well under 10% of such travel.
>>
>> Still, feeble as it is it's still a symbolic step in the right direction. So well done Macron for that. He has his uses.
>
> Chances are that people will take the car, especially if they must pay more for a train ticket.
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 1:55:55 PM7/4/23
to
I don't see that happening over here. Our government needs every Euro it can lay its hands on.
>
> Henk
>
>
HT
Jul 4, 2023, 2:59:48 PM7/4/23
to
> No serious measures will be taken unless, and until, the effects of global warming are clearly seen to be harming people's lives. That could be too late, I have no idea. Andy does, though, and will tell us. I can't wait.
If the rest of the world doesn't do its share and we fail to reduce global warming by 1 degree, we will have wasted away 350.000 thousand life-years, at a cost of Euro 80 thousand per year.
Henk
Andy Evans
Jul 4, 2023, 3:14:48 PM7/4/23
to
Frank Berger
Jul 4, 2023, 6:08:01 PM7/4/23
to
number_six
Jul 4, 2023, 6:31:17 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 11:59:48 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
> I'm not optimistic. In the Netherlands, we intend to invest EUR 28 billion, among other measures, to mitigate global warming. It is expected that this investment will reduce global warming by 0,000036 degrees.
>
> If the rest of the world doesn't do its share and we fail to reduce global warming by 1 degree, we will have wasted away 350.000 thousand life-years, at a cost of Euro 80 thousand per year.
>
> Henk
"It is expected..." -- interesting moment to shift to passive voice.
> I'm not optimistic. In the Netherlands, we intend to invest EUR 28 billion, among other measures, to mitigate global warming. It is expected that this investment will reduce global warming by 0,000036 degrees.
>
> If the rest of the world doesn't do its share and we fail to reduce global warming by 1 degree, we will have wasted away 350.000 thousand life-years, at a cost of Euro 80 thousand per year.
>
> Henk
What's your confidence level in those estimates?
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:34:04 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:12:42 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> Dan Koren schrieb am Dienstag, 4. Juli 2023 um 10:13:14 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > it seems Dan was completely right
> > Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> > my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
> I didn't, but now I know:
Thanks! A little more knowledge never hurts.
> "And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath
> also heard my voice, and hath given me a son:
> therefore called she his name Dan. Genesis 29:34 (KJV)
>
> The Hebrew verb דין Deen (#1777) means "to judge"
> such as we can see in the verse above. This is the
> root of the name דן dan (#1835), meaning a "judge,"
> and is also found in the verse above. In Jacob’s final
> words to Dan he also makes the connection between
> these two words.
>
> Dan shall judge (deen) his people, as one of the
> tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:16 (KJV)"
Obviously this gives me some standing to review
and to critique Bibi's "judicial reform". ;-)
> https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/names/Dan.htm
Per BARD:
The Tribe of Dan was one of the twelve tribes of Israel,
according to the Torah. They were allocated a coastal
portion of land when the people of Israel entered the
Promised Land, later moving northwards.
The tribe of Dan was named after Dan, the fifth son of
Jacob and Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid. Dan's name means
"judge" or "he judged." In the Book of Genesis, Dan is said
to have been a fierce warrior who was known for his strength
and cunning. He was also a skilled judge, and he was often
called upon to settle disputes among his people.
After the Israelites entered the Promised Land, the tribe of Dan
was given a portion of land in the north-central region. However,
the Danites were not satisfied with this land, and they eventually
migrated northward to the area of modern-day Lebanon. There
they established their capital city of Dan, which became a major
trading center.
The tribe of Dan played an important role in the history of Israel.
They were known for their military prowess, and they were often
called upon to defend the other tribes from their enemies. They
were also known for their cunning and their ability to adapt to
new situations.
The tribe of Dan disappeared from history after the Assyrian
conquest of Israel in 721 BC. However, some scholars believe
that the Danites may have migrated to Europe, where they became
the ancestors of the Danes.
Here are some of the notable members of the Tribe of Dan:
* Samson: A judge who was known for his strength and his
ability to defeat the Philistines.
* Micah: A prophet who lived in the 8th century BC. He is known
for his condemnation of social injustice and his call for social reform.
* Amasa: A general who served in the army of King David. He
was killed by Joab, David's nephew, in a dispute over the throne.
The Tribe of Dan is a fascinating and important part of the history of
Israel. Their story is one of courage, determination, and resilience.
They played a significant role in the development of the Israelite
nation, and their legacy continues to this day.
> > > when he said that Andy deliberately
> > > suppresses facts -
> >
> > I don't believe Andy even reaches the
> > point of suppressing facts. He merely
> > ignores them.
>
> Well yes, I guess you are right - it kind of seems
> to me though, that he is not consciously ignoring
> them, it's almost as if he can't process them,
> because he's just too deep in the swamp...
>
> And this also kind of evokes images of the
> past in me; like, I imagine Jews trying to reason
> with the Nazis, and the Nazis... well... there was
> nothing to reason with anymore, you know?
>
> Try telling orthodox Muslims about how it's
> inhumane to practice the death penalty for
> apostasy... There is nothing to reason with
> anymore in these people... They can only
> do it themselves...
If memory serves, Christians also used to burn
poeple at stake for apostasy, including their own.
Check Jeanne d'Arc and Giordano Bruno.
Since the dawn of "humanity", killing people
one disagrees with has always been the most
expedient way of ending discussion.
dk
> Dan Koren schrieb am Dienstag, 4. Juli 2023 um 10:13:14 UTC+2:
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > it seems Dan was completely right
> > Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> > my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
> I didn't, but now I know:
Thanks! A little more knowledge never hurts.
> "And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath
> also heard my voice, and hath given me a son:
> therefore called she his name Dan. Genesis 29:34 (KJV)
>
> The Hebrew verb דין Deen (#1777) means "to judge"
> such as we can see in the verse above. This is the
> root of the name דן dan (#1835), meaning a "judge,"
> and is also found in the verse above. In Jacob’s final
> words to Dan he also makes the connection between
> these two words.
>
> Dan shall judge (deen) his people, as one of the
> tribes of Israel. Genesis 49:16 (KJV)"
Obviously this gives me some standing to review
and to critique Bibi's "judicial reform". ;-)
> https://www.ancient-hebrew.org/names/Dan.htm
Per BARD:
The Tribe of Dan was one of the twelve tribes of Israel,
according to the Torah. They were allocated a coastal
portion of land when the people of Israel entered the
Promised Land, later moving northwards.
The tribe of Dan was named after Dan, the fifth son of
Jacob and Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid. Dan's name means
"judge" or "he judged." In the Book of Genesis, Dan is said
to have been a fierce warrior who was known for his strength
and cunning. He was also a skilled judge, and he was often
called upon to settle disputes among his people.
After the Israelites entered the Promised Land, the tribe of Dan
was given a portion of land in the north-central region. However,
the Danites were not satisfied with this land, and they eventually
migrated northward to the area of modern-day Lebanon. There
they established their capital city of Dan, which became a major
trading center.
The tribe of Dan played an important role in the history of Israel.
They were known for their military prowess, and they were often
called upon to defend the other tribes from their enemies. They
were also known for their cunning and their ability to adapt to
new situations.
The tribe of Dan disappeared from history after the Assyrian
conquest of Israel in 721 BC. However, some scholars believe
that the Danites may have migrated to Europe, where they became
the ancestors of the Danes.
Here are some of the notable members of the Tribe of Dan:
* Samson: A judge who was known for his strength and his
ability to defeat the Philistines.
* Micah: A prophet who lived in the 8th century BC. He is known
for his condemnation of social injustice and his call for social reform.
* Amasa: A general who served in the army of King David. He
was killed by Joab, David's nephew, in a dispute over the throne.
The Tribe of Dan is a fascinating and important part of the history of
Israel. Their story is one of courage, determination, and resilience.
They played a significant role in the development of the Israelite
nation, and their legacy continues to this day.
> > > when he said that Andy deliberately
> > > suppresses facts -
> >
> > I don't believe Andy even reaches the
> > point of suppressing facts. He merely
> > ignores them.
>
> Well yes, I guess you are right - it kind of seems
> to me though, that he is not consciously ignoring
> them, it's almost as if he can't process them,
> because he's just too deep in the swamp...
>
> And this also kind of evokes images of the
> past in me; like, I imagine Jews trying to reason
> with the Nazis, and the Nazis... well... there was
> nothing to reason with anymore, you know?
>
> Try telling orthodox Muslims about how it's
> inhumane to practice the death penalty for
> apostasy... There is nothing to reason with
> anymore in these people... They can only
> do it themselves...
If memory serves, Christians also used to burn
poeple at stake for apostasy, including their own.
Check Jeanne d'Arc and Giordano Bruno.
Since the dawn of "humanity", killing people
one disagrees with has always been the most
expedient way of ending discussion.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:35:35 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 9:04:23 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
>
> Free public transportation? Perhaps in France. I don't
> see that happening over here. Our government needs
> every Euro it can lay its hands on.
Maybe switch back to the Guilder so you can mint as
>
> Free public transportation? Perhaps in France. I don't
> see that happening over here. Our government needs
> every Euro it can lay its hands on.
many as you need? ;'-)
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:37:32 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 10:48:28 AM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> It has been reported (in MSM, even) that Yassir Arafat's net worth
> was in excess of a billion dollars at the time of his death. Mahmoud
> Abbas' net worth is estimated to be in excess of $100 million. A piker
> compared to Arafat. Benjamin Netanyahu's net worth has been reported
> to be around $13 million. An amateur.
Just a junior pickpocket. ;-)
>
> It has been reported (in MSM, even) that Yassir Arafat's net worth
> was in excess of a billion dollars at the time of his death. Mahmoud
> Abbas' net worth is estimated to be in excess of $100 million. A piker
> compared to Arafat. Benjamin Netanyahu's net worth has been reported
> to be around $13 million. An amateur.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:38:19 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:51:31 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> The next logical step to transferring travel to trains
> would be to heavily subsidise the cost of the tickets.
Nope. Make travel free.
>
> The next logical step to transferring travel to trains
> would be to heavily subsidise the cost of the tickets.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:39:43 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:39:08 AM UTC-7, HT wrote:
>
> I have no idea what the current popularity of the
> French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
>
Simple: people who must travel but
>
> I have no idea what the current popularity of the
> French railway is and what the costs of a ticket are."
>
cannot afford flight or bus tickets
take the train.
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:40:56 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 8:24:29 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
>
> France of course has a superlative railway system.
>
France has superlative everything. Even the cheese
>
> France of course has a superlative railway system.
>
is better in France than in the Netherlands! ;-)
Vive la France!
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:48:49 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 3:20:49 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > I did not talk about "violence".
> > I said if you "smack" me, I will
> > "smack" you back 10x harder.
>
> that's talking about violence, period.
The strict literalist strikes again.
We've had this discussion already
about the colloquial use of "hate" as
in "hating sushi" or "hating beer". You
are a Neanderthal who assumes every
word has exactly one meaning without
regard to context, and the most extreme
physical meaning at that. We can smack
you in writing, can't we?
And before I forget, I hate Neanderthals!
dk
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:17:14 PM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > I did not talk about "violence".
> > I said if you "smack" me, I will
> > "smack" you back 10x harder.
>
> that's talking about violence, period.
The strict literalist strikes again.
We've had this discussion already
about the colloquial use of "hate" as
in "hating sushi" or "hating beer". You
are a Neanderthal who assumes every
word has exactly one meaning without
regard to context, and the most extreme
physical meaning at that. We can smack
you in writing, can't we?
And before I forget, I hate Neanderthals!
dk
Dan Koren
Jul 4, 2023, 6:50:13 PM7/4/23
to
On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:31:28 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
Waste of time. One can always
praise oneself in the first. Learn
from Donny! ;-)
dk
> On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 10:13:14 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > it seems Dan was completely right
> > Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> > my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
> Yes, by all means praise yourself in the third person.
> > On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 1:04:49 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:
> > >
> > > it seems Dan was completely right
> > Isn't Dan always right? You know what
> > my name means in Hebrew, don't you? ;-)
>
Waste of time. One can always
praise oneself in the first. Learn
from Donny! ;-)
dk
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