Suk Trio Beethoven

Al Eisner

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Sep 5, 2021, 11:09:15 PM9/5/21

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Dave Hurwitz very recently reviewed a Supraphon box set of LvB's
piano trios (plus) by the Suk Trio. He said these dated frpm the 1980's
and were originally on Denon. Several Suk Trio performances have
been recommended here in the past, but I find their LvB discography
hard to figure out. The set sounds very intriguing, but I'm curious
to hear any comments comparing these and other Suk Trio performances
of the same works. Thanks.
--
Al Eisner

gggg gggg

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Sep 5, 2021, 11:20:53 PM9/5/21

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https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical.recordings/c/7YZ-YHOhk_g

Owen

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Sep 7, 2021, 4:33:57 PM9/7/21

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I've been listening to them on
Spotify.
(https://open.spotify.com/album/7kRaUR6eSxn3j2bpUkoB2W?si=0rEEgJLYQHe6x5u_HoYKtg&dl_branch=1)

My imprint reference is Istomin/Stern/Rose. This is the better set.
Playing is superb. Faster tempi. More energy.

-Owen

Al Eisner

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Sep 7, 2021, 8:23:14 PM9/7/21

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Thanks, that makes a second vote in favor (along with DH). Also
available at Amazon and Presto is a 2-CD set with earlier performances
(I think) of three of the trios plus Schubert's first, also on
Supraphon. I'm still interested in hearing from the experts as to
how much those Suk LvB's differ.. I suspect I may need both sets
anyway, one for the other four LvB trios, the other for the Schubert.
--
Al Eisner

Herman

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Sep 8, 2021, 5:18:35 AM9/8/21

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On Monday, September 6, 2021 at 5:09:15 AM UTC+2, Al Eisner wrote:
> Dave Hurwitz very recently reviewed a Supraphon box set of LvB's
> piano trios

> --
> Al Eisner

I was completely puzzled by the way Hurwitz constructed an argument that LvB's piano trio were the first piano trios in the modern sense, because apparently none of Haydn 43 piano trios measured up (while at least fifteen of them are much more than 'accompanied piano sonatas) and somehow Mozart's six piano trios fell short in some other unspecified way. The reality is, only two of LvB's piano trios are mature works, so the whole argument falls apart and that's when I gave up on that video.

It's well-known phenom in review journalism. Beware of the self-abortive introduction.

Steve Emerson

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Sep 8, 2021, 1:40:20 PM9/8/21

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On Sunday, September 5, 2021 at 8:09:15 PM UTC-7, Al Eisner wrote:

I can't give you anything specific on this set, Al, except to say that I've had it for over 20 years and am usually disappointed when I listen to it. I'm sure you know that the pianist is Josef Hala and not Jan Panenka, the pianist in the trio's best-known recordings; also a frequent collaborator with Suk in chamber music. There are two Archdukes with Panenka, one from the early '60s and a digital account from c. 1975, both terrific; the latter more energetic and quite different from the earlier. There's also a Ghost Trio and an Op 1/3 from the early '60s. Not sure what else. Anyway, there's nothing approaching a full set outside of the one with Hala.

SE.

Al Eisner

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Sep 8, 2021, 4:01:19 PM9/8/21

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Thanks. As I mentioned later in this thread, both Presto and Amazon are
selling a two-CD Supraphon set (at a reasoanble price), with Panenka,
of three of the trios - along with their Schubert #1, which I really
ought to have. The sellers do not indicate the performance dates.
(The three trios are #3, 5 and 7. Did they ever record Op. 70#2
with Panenka?)

I have little experience with the Suk Trio, hence no insight of my own
into the effect of the change in pianists. So I was hoping you would
respond. :)
--
Al Eisner

Johannes Roehl

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Sep 9, 2021, 9:04:33 AM9/9/21

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Herman schrieb am Mittwoch, 8. September 2021 um 11:18:35 UTC+2:

> I was completely puzzled by the way Hurwitz constructed an argument that LvB's piano trio were the first piano trios in the modern sense, because apparently none of Haydn 43 piano trios measured up (while at least fifteen of them are much more than 'accompanied piano sonatas) and somehow Mozart's six piano trios fell short in some other unspecified way. The reality is, only two of LvB's piano trios are mature works, so the whole argument falls apart and that's when I gave up on that video.
>

Even with counting problems and maybe unduly discounting op.1,1-3 and op.11 as immature there are at least *three* middle period Beethoven trios, namely op.70,1+2 and op.97. (There are variation sets, arrangements etc. in addition to them, I am not looking up when they were written). But I don't see why the argument should fall apart because of this. Immature or not, Beethoven's op.1 are all both on a larger scale (4 longish movements) and with more important cello parts than Haydn's (and probably most of Mozart's, I have to admit that my favorite Mozart trio is the Kegelstatt and I don't know the ones with standard setup very well), so there could a case be made that they deserve to be singled out as "first modern". The same case could probably be made wrt cello sonatas by Beethoven vs. Boccherini.
Anyway, I agree that not much should hinge on how big a step towards "modern" trio either the early or later Beethoven trios are.

I don't know their later complete recording but I have the three trios op.1/3, 70/1 and 97 with the 1960s Suk as a twofer (with Schubert B flat major) and they are very good.

Steve Emerson

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Sep 9, 2021, 11:55:42 AM9/9/21

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Hi Al -- I'm not aware of an Op 70/2 with Panenka. The two-fer with three Beethoven trios and the Schubert (with Panenka) seems like a must-buy; I know all the stuff from other releases. I'd guess the Archduke is the one first issued in 1962; doubt Supraphon would have gone to the trouble to get the 1975 from Denon, particularly at a point when the rest of the release is from 1965 and before.

There are some terrific records featuring Suk and Hala (would have to root around to tell you which ones). They worked together frequently. I forget the details, but I know Panenka went through a period of physical impairment and Suk started working with Hala (trio and duo both); later Panenka recovered and they were back together, though Suk still made recordings with Hala as well.

Panenka was one of those born chamber players. You know the kind.

SE.

Johannes Roehl

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Sep 9, 2021, 2:50:24 PM9/9/21

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Johannes Roehl schrieb am Donnerstag, 9. September 2021 um 15:04:33 UTC+2:

> I don't know their later complete recording but I have the three trios op.1/3, 70/1 and 97 with the 1960s Suk as a twofer (with Schubert B flat major) and they are very good.

The twofer is Supraphon SU 3959-2. Remastered and issued 2008, I have no older CDs or LPs. Recorded 1961 (Archduke) and 63, the Schubert 1964.

Owen

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Sep 9, 2021, 3:00:24 PM9/9/21

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After listening a bit more, I would add the adjectives: driven, almost
savage playing (but not quite). Not a leisurely set, but amazing
virtuoso performances by all three.

-Owen

Al Eisner

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Sep 10, 2021, 5:50:32 PM9/10/21

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Thanks. That clears up some confusion engendeed by the commentary at Presto.
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA

"So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it
enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind
to do." >>> Benjamin Franklin (Autobiography)