Gotterdammerung - favourite versions?

[Andy Evans]

As title - what are your favourite versions of Gotterdammerung?

And what influences you most - the singers or the conducting or some balance of both?

Do you still listen to the historical versions, or have you gone over to modern stereo sound or DVDs?

[wkasimer]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 6:53:33 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:

> As title - what are your favourite versions of Gotterdammerung?

I'm not a huge fan of Solti's RING (at least not to the same degree as many seem to be), but his GOTTERDAMMERUNG comes pretty close to my ideal.

> And what influences you most - the singers or the conducting or some balance of both?

Singers. Too many Wagner opera recordings are scuttled by one or more singers who really have no business singing Wagner, or singers with voices that I find not to my taste.

> Do you still listen to the historical versions, or have you gone over to modern stereo sound or DVDs?

I still listen to historic versions and broadcasts with suboptimal sound, but usually because there's a singer or two that hasn't been equalled (e.g. Melchior, Leider, Flagstad, Schorr).

[Terry]

By a fair margin, Goodall. Yes, it's sung in English, but that doesn't matter. The best singers, and a genius conducting. He takes his time, and overwhelms you. It's a great recording.

[wagner...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 6:53:33 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:

The Solti by far - the care that went into that recording from the casting from top to bottom(just about the best at the time) to the extraordinary sound and that fabulous orchestra. Solti's is not my favorite kind of Wagner conducting (I prefer Kna and Furt) but it is dramatic, exciting and colorful. One of the greatest opera recordings ever made

[Oscar]

I love the Solti, too. An "awesome" achievement. Those were the days.

[wanwan]

Solti. The best of his cycle and best all around for sound and good conducting, orchestra, and singing. What is it, 50 years old? and still sound is excellent.

I wish that Furtwangler had lived long enough for a studio recording with the VPO or Berlin Phil in good mono. What I've heard of his assorted Wagner even with less than great sound shows off IMO the greatest Wagnerian conductor of the 20th C.

-----------
Eric

[Andy Evans]

Do you guys listen back to the various Bayreuth recordings - quite a few on Youtube?

I'm enjoying Bayreuth 2007 with Christian Thielemann - I like his conducting and he clearly loves this score. Critics never liked his performances, not sure why. This is in excellent sound too. There is a later 2008 recording and a Vienna version which I haven't heard - they are the ones that usually get panned.

[wagner...@gmail.com]

that he was

[sfr...@nycap.rr.com]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 6:53:33 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:

Have you ever seen the documentary "Sing Faster"?

https://www.amazon.com/Sing-Faster-Stagehands-Ring-Cycle/dp/B00022FW90

It's a hoot.

MIFrost

[Mark Zimmer]

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 2:46:12 AM UTC-5, Andy Evans wrote:
> Do you guys listen back to the various Bayreuth recordings - quite a few on Youtube?
>
> I'm enjoying Bayreuth 2007 with Christian Thielemann - I like his conducting and he clearly loves this score. Critics never liked his performances, not sure why. This is in excellent sound too. There is a later 2008 recording and a Vienna version which I haven't heard - they are the ones that usually get panned.

There are quite has a number of Bayreuth Rings from the 1950s in generally good sound; I think they are mostly radio tapes. I really like the 1957 Knappertsbusch cycle on Walhall, and it's much cheaper than the luxe 1955 Keilberth cycle on Testament (originally recorded by Decca). The Götterdämmerung is particularly good, with a downright terrifying Act II with the most vile Hagen I can remember hearing. Culshaw in Ring Resounding makes the point that Kna was much better live than he ever was in the recording studio, and these live recordings bear that estimation out.

[Mike]

This is one of the best DVDs ever--up there in terms of indispensability with Anna Russell's stuff.
...

[wagner...@gmail.com]

Unfortunately that 57 set has the pitchless, bleating of Bernd Aldenhoff as last minute Siegfried in Siegfried. They cut a verse of the forging song for him but it still perfectly awful

[wkasimer]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 12:25:12 PM UTC-4, Terry wrote:

> By a fair margin, Goodall. Yes, it's sung in English, but that doesn't matter. The best singers, and a genius conducting. He takes his time, and overwhelms you. It's a great recording. <

That would be my second choice. Hunter and Remedios are indeed superb - but I find Haugland's Hagen a bit of a disappointment, at least when compared to Frick and Salminen. And it's not a great orchestra....

[wkasimer]

On Thursday, July 7, 2016 at 3:46:12 AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:

> Do you guys listen back to the various Bayreuth recordings?

Frequently, particularly 1953, 1955, and 1956. The 1955 cycle is in stereo on Testament, and sounds superb. My issue with all of the 50's RING cycles is Varnay - it's just not a voice that I like much.

> I'm enjoying Bayreuth 2007 with Christian Thielemann - I like his conducting and he clearly loves this score. Critics never liked his performances, not sure why. This is in excellent sound too. There is a later 2008 recording and a Vienna version which I haven't heard - they are the ones that usually get panned. <

His recordings of the RING get panned mostly because of the singers. The live Bayreuth cycle on Opus Arte is actually quite decent, although some of the singing is decidedly mediocre. Unfortunately, the singing on the later Vienna version is, by and large, a lot worse than mediocre - there's a reason why it's selling (or should I say "not selling") on Amazon for $35. But Thielemann's Wagnerian conducting is fine - he's no Furtwangler, but neither is anyone else.

[Andy Evans]

I really like the 1957 Knappertsbusch cycle on Walhall, and it's much cheaper than the luxe 1955 Keilberth cycle on Testament (originally recorded by Decca). The Götterdämmerung is particularly good, with a downright terrifying Act II with the most vile Hagen I can remember hearing. Culshaw in Ring Resounding makes the point that Kna was much better live than he ever was in the recording studio, and these live recordings bear that estimation out.
>
> Unfortunately that 57 set has the pitchless, bleating of Bernd Aldenhoff as last minute Siegfried in Siegfried. They cut a verse of the forging song for him but it still perfectly awful

Big disappointment with this set for me were the Norns at the start of Act 3. I love this passage, and it's a bit of a train wreck compared with Solti or Thielemann. I know it's fairly short but I like to hear it well done.

[Jim Paul]

On Friday, July 8, 2016 at 4:07:48 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:

>
> Big disappointment with this set for me were the Norns at the start of Act >3. I love this passage, and it's a bit of a train wreck compared with Solti >or Thielemann. I know it's fairly short but I like to hear it well done.

Norns in Act 3 would be a train wreck. I assume you meant to say horns.

[Terry]

It sounds like a great orchestra, which is what matters, and Goodall's conducting is absolutely electrifying at every point. Hunter and Remedios of course, and Stroud's Alberich is as good as any, and better than most. Regarding Haugland's Hagen, I find it very satisfactory, with genuine menace. This set is the one I reach for most often, amongst the seven Gotterdammerungs I have. I think this is an opera that comes up well in "live" recordings, but I still like Janowski and Solti from time to time.

[Andy Evans]

Sorry, Rhinemaidens...

That would be a bit of train wreck in the Rhine, so probably more of a shipwreck...