Jene Jando has died

[Mandryka]

A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5 and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too. There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t know about, if so, please say.

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 09:07:58 UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5 and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too. There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t know about, if so, please say.

I liked him. He was a bit type-cast with Naxos as a cheap way to buy recordings but he was bigger than that.

[Mandryka]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 9:07:58 AM UTC+1, Mandryka wrote:
> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5 and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too. There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t know about, if so, please say.

Jeno of course, not Jene - as per the title. In fact Jenő. I blame autocorrect!

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:07:58 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>
> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5
> and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh
> interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think
> his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too.

Sorry to hear. Jando is/was certainly underrated.

> There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t
> know about, if so, please say.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHeivSBh8nrGmFmX3T1lTkg

Also note Jenő Jandó was Jewish.

dk

[Herman]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:16:54 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>
> Also note Jenő Jandó was Jewish.
>
> dk

We also need to note henceforth all other ethnic and religious details about a n y b o d y, so as to assuage the racist preoccupations of certain individuals.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:23:07 AM UTC-7, Herman wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:16:54 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> >
> > Also note Jenő Jandó was Jewish.
>

> We also need to note henceforth all
> other ethnic and religious details

Being Jewish is not a "religion".

While it may not be of interest
to you to know this, it may be
of interest to other people.

Even anti-semites like you tend
to know this, don't you think?

I also did not notice you or
anyone else getting upset
when Juan mentions Arrau
was Chilean. Would you be
equally upset if I mentioned
Marie Novello was Welsh?

dk

[HT]

Op woensdag 5 juli 2023 om 10:07:58 UTC+2 schreef Mandryka:

> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5 and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too. There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t know about, if so, please say.

May he rest in peace. He was a great professional, and sometimes far more. In particular in Bartok.

Henk

[Chris J.]

On 5 Jul 2023 Dan Koren wrote:

> Being Jewish is not a "religion".

It's complicated...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity

...but irrelevant, as classical recordings is what this newsgroup should
be about.

> I also did not notice you or anyone else getting upset when Juan
> mentions Arrau was Chilean.

"Jando was Hungarian" would be the appropriate analogy, not "Jando was
Jewish".

On topic: I've always liked the Naxos recording of Schumann's piano
quintet with Jando and the Kodály Quartet.

Chris

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:54:59 AM UTC-7, Chris J. wrote:
> On 5 Jul 2023 Dan Koren wrote:
>
> > Being Jewish is not a "religion".
> It's complicated...

I did not claim it wasn't.

> ...but irrelevant, as classical recordings
> is what this newsgroup should be about.

Political Correctness (TM) censorship?
What matters to one person may not
matter to another.

> > I also did not notice you or anyone else
> > getting upset when Juan mentions Arrau
> > was Chilean. "Jando was Hungarian" would
> > be the appropriate analogy, not "Jando was
> > Jewish".

"Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
however don't know he was also Jewish.

Which "half" is more important varies by
person.

Now go back to your corner.

dk

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 09:54:59 UTC+1, Chris J. wrote:

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_identity
>
> ...but irrelevant, as classical recordings is what this newsgroup should
> be about.
> > I also did not notice you or anyone else getting upset when Juan
> > mentions Arrau was Chilean.
> "Jando was Hungarian" would be the appropriate analogy, not "Jando was
> Jewish".

> Chris

This is in fact 2 newsgroups:
rec.music.classical.recordings
rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish

[Herman]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:02:59 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
>
>
> Now go back to your corner.
>
> dk

RMCR owner speaking,
as usual in the imperative.

[Andy Evans]

He usually speaks to cats, so he has to adjust to humans.....

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:19:05 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 10:16:07 UTC+1, Herman wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:02:59 AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > >
> > > Now go back to your corner.
> >

> > RMCR owner speaking,
> > as usual in the imperative.
>
> He usually speaks to cats, so
> he has to adjust to humans.....

I do not "speak" to my cats. One
does not speak to cats. The cats
speak to me, typically when they
are unhappy. Cats are goddesses.

This is something "humans" like
you cannot understand.

dk

[JohnGavin]

I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.

[Herman]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:35:07 AM UTC+2, JohnGavin wrote:
>
> I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.

Or women contributors, but obviously that's out of the question.

[Andy Evans]

There's always Hard Hearted Hannah, the vamp from Savannah, the meanest girl in town... Leather is tough but Hannah's kind of tougher..... she is the girl that likes to see men suffer.....

[HT]

Op woensdag 5 juli 2023 om 11:35:07 UTC+2 schreef JohnGavin:

> I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.

Wishing for more 'identitists'?

Henk

[Andy Evans]

You have a point there....

[raymond....@gmail.com]

Less narcissic arseholes would help too. People with a smidgeon of integrity.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Chris J.]

On 5 Jul 2023 Andy Evans wrote:

> This is in fact 2 newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
> rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish

rec.music.classical.recordings.(assigned/chosen)identity?
Soon in this theatre, The Atomization of a Newsgroup?

Chris

[Herman]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:28:27 PM UTC+2, raymond....@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Less narcissic arseholes would help too. People with a smidgeon of integrity.
>

Two or three guys come here with the sole purpose of pathological self-aggrandizement.

This place is their oxygen. They're going to burn it down.

[Gerard]

Op woensdag 5 juli 2023 om 11:03:38 UTC+2 schreef Andy Evans:

No, it's only one: rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish-uberall - talks about music are OT.

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 15:57:58 UTC+1, Gerard wrote:
> > This is in fact 2 newsgroups:
> > rec.music.classical.recordings
> > rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish
> No, it's only one: rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish-uberall - talks about music are OT.

I've been banned from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish for criticising the Netanyahu regime, so I can't reply to any of their posts anymore. Not a big sacrifice.

[MickeyBoy]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:07:58 AM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5 and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too. There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t know about, if so, please say.

Thanks for the sad news. I just compared his Obermann with Piemontesi's. Despite the much better sound quality in Piemontesi's recording, Jeno has the better refinement grounded in the piece and its rhetoric. Senancour's epistolary novel portrays a neurotic almost bipolar personality. Jeno understands this - as probably also did Horowitz. Piemontesi adds 'expression' here and there just because. Jeno follows the the train of musical emotion much more closely.

[Frank Berger]

On 7/5/2023 4:16 AM, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:07:58 AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
>>
>> A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok’s Mikrokosmos 5
>> and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh
>> interpretation of Liszt’s Années Bk 1, and I think
>> his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too.
>

> Sorry to hear. Jando is/was certainly underrated.

>
>> There may be other fabulous recordings I don’t
>> know about, if so, please say.
>

> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHeivSBh8nrGmFmX3T1lTkg

>
> Also note Jenő Jandó was Jewish.
>

> dk
>
>


As were all these guys and gals:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_pianists

I really don't pay much attention to celebrities ethnicity, so I am surprised to see Martha Argerich listed.

[Frank Berger]

Often media refer to people as of "Jewish Descent," or say they were born to a Jewish mother (and/or father). That way they avoid the complication of whether the person considers themselves Jewish, or converted to something else. It's not unreasonable, because it IS complicated, but perfectly understandable and reasonable to even a slightly educated Jew (I hate when the media says "Jewish person" because they think that using the word "Jew" is, or sounds like, a slur. LOL.

[Frank Berger]

Everyone knows, except Herman, that you are identify Jewish artists as Jewish simply to provoke him.

[Frank Berger]

And you don't like it one bit. Tough.

You forgot rec.music.classical.recording.global_warming

[Frank Berger]

We are staying with friends while our floors are being refinished and they have cat somewhat elderly. I've never had a cat (or dog) so being exposed to his (her? its?) behavior is intresting. For hours the cat is unseen and nowhere to be found. Then he show up and wants hang around humans, rubbing against them, accepted caresses, purring. It's really nice. Problem is my wife is allergic (or has been, she has no symptoms so far) and never liked them. She pushes it way when it gets near her. No one is perfect. My grand daughter recently got a cat from the pound (?). It is around 9 or 10 years old and seems to have been abused. It was very skittish around people for a couple of weeks, but warmed up to the children after awhile, but it seems to hate me and my son-in-law. II was petting it gently, and he/she seemed to like it, but then growled (or whatever hostile sound cats make) and bit me. Doesn't like men, I guess. Abused by one?

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 22:20:24 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > rec.music.classical.recordings
> > rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish
> And you don't like it one bit. Tough.
>

Since I'm excluded from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish for criticising the Netanyahu regime, I'm afraid I'm unable to answer you. Sorry

[Dan Koren]

Introspection is an exceedingly rare
capability. Whatever feels important
to Andy is obviously more important
and more legitimate than anything
else, no matter how unrelated to
the topics at hand.

dk

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 22:33:22 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> Whatever feels important
> to Andy is obviously more important
> and more legitimate than anything
> else, no matter how unrelated to
> the topics at hand.
>
> dk

[Frank Berger]

I wish all women were Asian. I was watching a k-pop video a couple of years ago and when there was close-up, I blurted, "My god, that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Then there were close-ups of each of the other women and they were each more beautiful then the first one.

I guess that means I am a racist. So be it.

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_pianists
.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 5:02 AM, Dan Koren wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:54:59 AM UTC-7, Chris J. wrote:
> >> On 5 Jul 2023 Dan Koren wrote:
> >>
> >>> Being Jewish is not a "religion".
> >> It's complicated...
> >
> > I did not claim it wasn't.
> >
> >> ...but irrelevant, as classical recordings
> >> is what this newsgroup should be about.
> >
> > Political Correctness (TM) censorship?
> > What matters to one person may not
> > matter to another.
> >
> >>> I also did not notice you or anyone else
> >>> getting upset when Juan mentions Arrau
> >>> was Chilean. "Jando was Hungarian" would
> >>> be the appropriate analogy, not "Jando was
> >>> Jewish".
> >
> > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > however don't know he was also Jewish.
> >
> > Which "half" is more important varies by
> > person.
> >
> > Now go back to your corner.
>

> Everyone knows, except Herman, that you
> are identify Jewish artists as Jewish simply
> to provoke him.

Nope. Absolutely not. I identify Jewish artists
to make the audience aware of the cultural
traits of the Jewish people, and as a matter
of national pride.

dk

[Frank Berger]

Sticks and stones....

[Frank Berger]

Please share your objections to the Netanyahu regime. Be specific. You always make comments about it, but don't ever seem to say what it is exactly that you object to.

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 22:35:58 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> I identify Jewish artists
> to make the audience aware of the cultural
> traits of the Jewish people, and as a matter
> of national pride.
> > dk

I'm not a member of rec.music.clssical.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.

[Andy Evans]

On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 22:38:14 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> > I've been banned from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish for criticising the Netanyahu regime, so I can't reply to any of their posts anymore. Not a big sacrifice.
> Please share your objections to the Netanyahu regime. Be specific. You always make comments about it, but don't ever seem to say what it is exactly that you object to.

I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 8:11:00 AM UTC-7, Andy Evans wrote:
>
> I've been banned from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish for
> criticising the Netanyahu regime, so I can't reply to any of their
> posts anymore. Not a big sacrifice.

Bald lie.

dk

[Andy Evans]

I'm not a member of rec.classical.music.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 5:37:22 AM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

> Calm your tits dear fellow humans - it was just mentioned that
> Jando was Jewish. I think it's always interesting to know some
> background about artists I like (Jando not being one of them...)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_musicians
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_pianists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_classical_violinists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Jewish_opera_singers

etc... ofc neither exhaustive nor authoritative

dk

[Graham]

And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
There used to be a similar list that included Glen Gould!

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:35:06 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 5:35 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> >
> > I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.
>
> I wish all women were Asian. I was watching a k-pop video a
> couple of years ago and when there was close-up, I blurted,
> "My god, that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen.
> Then there were close-ups of each of the other women
> and they were each more beautiful then the first one.

Did you discuss the matter with your rabbi?
Maybe you should spend more time reading
the Ta;mud than watching videos! ;-)

dk

[Frank Berger]

OK, but you love provoking Herman, don't you?

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 2:38:14 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On 7/5/2023 11:10 AM, Andy Evans wrote:
> >
> > I've been banned from rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish
> > for criticising the Netanyahu regime,
>

> Please share your objections to the Netanyahu regime. Be specific.

If anyone has obejections to Netanyahu or any other aspect of
Israel's regime or politics, they should buy tickets to Tel-Aviv
and join the protester crowds there. This is known as "having
skin in the game".

r.m.c.r. is for discussing recordings only (aka "posters of
Brigitte Bardot"), not political matters.

dk

[Frank Berger]

As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.

[Frank Berger]

Gasp!

[Frank Berger]

I definitely should.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:03:59 PM UTC-7, Graham wrote:
>
> And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.

Criteria for being considered Jewish vary.

The traditional Jewish interpretation is
that any person whose mother is/was
Jewish is Jewish by birth. According to
this interpretation, someone with 1/16
Jewish blood/DNA can be Jewish if
the entire mother side line is Jewish.

Outside the Jewish community, many
people use the phrase "half-Jewish" to
describe people with one non-Jewish
parent, regardless of side.

> There used to be a similar list that
> included Glen Gould!

Not that I recall. Gould's family was
English/Scottish/Norwegian. His
fasther was Russell Herbert Gold.
He changed his name to Gould in
order to avoid being "mistaken" for
Jewish because of the widespread
anti-semitism in Toronto during the
1930s.

dk

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:19:17 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
>
> > And Ashkenazy's mother was not Jewish.
>
> Gasp!

There are/were many mixed marriages in
the professional middle class in Russia.
Their kids are/were often described as
"Jewish" by Russians and/or in official
documents.

Among pianists, Ashkenazy, Sokolov,
Petrov, Ervin Nyiregyházi, Geza Anda,
and probably others, are/were half
Jewish with Jewish fathers.

dk

[Dan Koren]

I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
or set outrageous conditions to accept,
such as the Israeli government stopping
immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
and shutting down all the off shore oil
and gas extraction platforms.

dk

[Andy Evans]

No response.

[Frank Berger]

If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:32:21 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 7:53:15 PM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 23:42:37 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 3:17:26 PM UTC-7, Frank Berger wrote:
> > > > On 7/5/2023 5:40 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'm not a member of rec.music.classicl.recordings.jewish so unable to comment.
> > > > As a founding member of rec.music.classical.recordings.jewish I hereby admit you as a member.
> > > I will wager one penny Andy will decline,
> > > or set outrageous conditions to accept,
> > > such as the Israeli government stopping
> > > immediately the use of all fossil fuels,
> > > and shutting down all the off shore oil
> > > and gas extraction platforms.
> >

> > No response.
>
> If you stop your vague non-specific slamming
> of the "current"" government of Israel I will have
> no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided
> specifics, we could discuss them calmly and
> reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you
> whereas global warming isn't. Right.

The entire global warming discussion has been
too politicized to allow any rational discussion.

dk

[Pluted Pup]

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 01:16:50 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:

> On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 1:07:58???AM UTC-7, Mandryka wrote:
> >
> > A favourite pianist of mine in Bartok´s Mikrokosmos 5
> > and 6 and the sonatas with Pauk. I love his fresh
> > interpretation of Liszt´s Années Bk 1, and I think
> > his small form Schubert is well worth a listen too.
>
> Sorry to hear. Jando is/was certainly underrated.
>
> > There may be other fabulous recordings I don´t
> > know about, if so, please say.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHeivSBh8nrGmFmX3T1lTkg
>

> Also note Jen"o Jandó was Jewish.

And he played antisemitic music.

[Dan Koren]

On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 10:17:24 PM UTC-7, Marc S wrote:

> Did you know Fricsay had a Jewish mother?

Of course. This is noted in the Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferenc_Fricsay

However I knew about it long before the
Wikipedia was created.

> Never thought of him being Jewish until I read it.

You have a lot of learning ahead of you, my boy!

dk

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:32:21 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> If you stop your vague non-specific slamming of the "current"" government of Israel I will have no reason to ask for specifics. If you provided specifics, we could discuss them calmly and reasonably. But that is too off-topic for you whereas global warming isn't. Right.

No response to posts like this

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 03:54:22 UTC+1, Dan Koren wrote:
> The entire global warming discussion has been
> too politicized to allow any rational discussion.
> > dk

No response to posts like this.

[Frank Berger]

You are coward.

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 15:35:17 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >
> > No response to posts like this
> You are coward.

On the contrary. I'm exercising some control to help clear up the mess on RMCR. You could do the same.

[Frank Berger]

Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 16:12:46 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> Fine, I'll leave it be. But the next time you refer vague, non-specific atrocities committed by the "current" or any other government of Israel, you will hear from me.

It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.

[Frank Berger]

Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.

[Andy Evans]

You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.

[Frank Berger]

I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 18:38:41 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
> >>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
> >> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
> >
> > You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
> I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.

If you think I'm going to spend a chunk of my life gathering data on the Israeli conflict you are delusional. I could easily do so - I'm an academic and an ex-journalist and I can gather and analyse data speedily and efficiently. I could give you data on life expectancy and poverty levels in Gaza, I could give you an analysis of the number of victims of the Israeli security forces in the West Bank, both residents and journalists, I could give you an analysis month by month of the amount of land in hectares that settlers have taken over from the inhabitants of the West bank.

All this would be useless because 1. You would ignore it, 2. You would change the subject, 3. You would manipulate the data according to your party line, e.g. Palestine never existed, they're all terrorists anyway and there's no evidence that any journalists were shot by the security services.

Since I'm not going to pander to an insatiable blather of posts all ignoring anything that disagrees with your own personal views I'm not going to continue this completely pointless exchange of posts.

I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

[Herman]

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 7:55:05 PM UTC+2, Andy Evans wrote:
>
>
> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

bravo. It's to be expected that FB will want to have the last word (and then some), however, this is a completely useless discussion.

[Andy Evans]

Yes, of course. Word for word.

[Frank Berger]

On 7/6/2023 1:55 PM, Andy Evans wrote:
> On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 18:38:41 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:
>>>>> It's so crystal clear that we utterly disagree on the Netanyahu regime that it seems pointless to flog a dead horse.
>>>> Couldn't resist it one more time, could you. The person who says conversation is pointless is usually the one who is afraid to engage because he has no facts to back his opinion.
>>>
>>> You absolutely have to have the last word, don't you Frank? But it's useless flogging the party line again and again and again. It's just one of many, many views on Israel. I think it's pretty safe to say that there's no single "correct" view of a conflict which has gone on since the beginning of time. However much you believe you're right inside your head, it's a whole different world outside your head.
>> I'm not talking about views. I'm talking about discussing facts. You don't want to.
>
> If you think I'm going to spend a chunk of my life gathering data on the Israeli conflict you are delusional. I could easily do so - I'm an academic and an ex-journalist and I can gather and analyse data speedily and efficiently. I could give you data on life expectancy and poverty levels in Gaza,

Why would any of that be Israel's fault?

I could give you an analysis of the number of victims of the Israeli security forces in the West Bank,

You didn't mention those security forces are just. Providing security for Israelis by deterring terrorism. Do you disagree?

both residents and journalists, I could give you an analysis month by month of the amount of land in hectares that settlers have taken over from the inhabitants of the West bank.
>

First you would have to research and evaluate the claims each side has, and justify why you have decided that Palestinian presence discounts everything else.

Would you also relate to me the number if Israeli's killed by terrorist attacks? Or do you consider terrorists to be freedom fighters?

> All this would be useless because 1. You would ignore it, 2. You would change the subject, 3. You would manipulate the data according to your party line, e.g. Palestine never existed, they're all terr

Have I changed the subject? Haven't I asked good questions? Do you have answers? And you makes stuff. I never said all Palestinians were terrorists.

orists anyway and there's no evidence that any journalists were shot by the security services.
>

Accidents happen in war. If you have any evidence that Israel deliberately kills journalists (or children), please share it.

> Since I'm not going to pander to an insatiable blather of posts all ignoring anything that disagrees with your own personal views I'm not going to continue this completely pointless exchange of posts.
>
> I've had enough. Arguing with brick walls has to come to an end,

We're not arguing. I am asking for information and you are refusing to provide it. It's that simple.

[Frank Berger]

Every post is potentially the last word. No one "desires" it anymore than anyone else. You're saying that Andy or you can respond to a post of mine, but I can not respond to a post of yours. Can't you see that?

[Frank Berger]

Here's a summary of this conversation: You made vague, non-specific accusations against the "current" government of Israel. I asked you to provide specifics. You refuse.

Regardless of who's right, I win.

You remind me of Joseph McCarthy or Johnny Iseling.

[Andy Evans]

On Thursday, 6 July 2023 at 20:07:53 UTC+1, Frank Berger wrote:

> Regardless of who's right, I win.
>

I'm so happy for you, it must mean so much in your life.....

Other than that no more conversations with brick walls.

[Pluted Pup]

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:

>
> "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> however don't know he was also Jewish.

What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.

>
> Which "half" is more important varies by
> person.
>
> Now go back to your corner.
>
> dk

[Frank Berger]

Takes one to know one. It's hard to imagine that a person not willing to talk about an issue could call the other guy a brick well, but you did it. Again.

[Dan Koren]

On Thursday, July 6, 2023 at 1:53:47 PM UTC-7, Pluted Pup wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 02:02:56 -0700, Dan Koren wrote:
>
> >
> > "Appropriate" in what way? Don't wake up the
> > audience? In case you didn't notice, everyone
> > knows Jando was Hungarian. Many people
> > however don't know he was also Jewish.
>
> What you say is important: "A Hungarian" is
> misleading, while a "Jewish pianist from
> Hungary" is accurate and descriptive.
> Jews persecute Hungarians, so calling a
> Jewish Hungarian a "Hungarian" rings false.

"Jews persecute Hungarians" ?!?!?!?

dk

[Pluted Pup]

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 14:34:51 -0700, Frank Berger wrote:

> On 7/5/2023 5:35 AM, JohnGavin wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 5:19:05???AM UTC-4, Andy Evans wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 5 July 2023 at 10:16:07 UTC+1, Herman wrote:

> > > > On Wednesday, July 5, 2023 at 11:02:59???AM UTC+2, Dan Koren wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Now go back to your corner.
> > > > >
> > > > > dk

> > > > RMCR owner speaking,
> > > > as usual in the imperative.
> > > He usually speaks to cats, so he has to adjust to humans.....
> >
> > I wish this newsgroup had many more Asian contributors.
>
> I wish all women were Asian. I was watching a k-pop video a couple of years ago and when there was close-up, I blurted, "My god, that's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Then there were close-ups of each of the other women and they were each more beautiful then the first one.
>
> I guess that means I am a racist. So be it.

There you go, there would be more Asians and more women contributors
but the Jewish predators scared them off.

[Pluted Pup]

Noel Coward! This discussion is related to music!

[Pluted Pup]

What were Jean Jando's views on Israel's politics?

Maybe we should grill all pianists now about their
feelings about Israel so there won't be any arguments
after they pass away.

[raymond....@gmail.com]

Well said. However, at least brick walls don't obfuscate every point and outright deny every point, so there is something you can say for them. Also there is more compassion in a brick than exercised by some here.

Ray Hall, Taree

[Mandryka]

I just listened for the first time to Jando’s k491 - I enjoyed it very much. Well worth a shot I’d say.

[Peter]

Just got back from a sort of vacation and bumped into this awful thread. I'm interested in what people think about Jando's pianism and would like to read more. I haven't listened to his Haydn in ages; should I go back?

People really tripped out on the Jewish thing. I'm interested that he was Jewish, since that means something in Hungary, where many Jews survived WWII, but many didn't. That piece of information would mean less to me for someone living in the US, but there's nothing wrong with mentioning it. Either way, it's small compared to his musical accomplishments.