Messiaen complete organ works reviewed by MusicWeb
Len at MusicWeb
Complete organ works
Jennifer Bate
Recorded in Beauvais Cathedral 1980-82 and Eglise du Saint-Trinité, Paris, May 1987
REGIS RRC1086, 1087, 2051, 2052 (available separately or as a 6-disc boxed set)
Olivier Latry
Recorded in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame de Paris, July 2000
DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON 471 480-2 (six discs)
One set is more than twice the price of the other so which is it to be?
Find out on Wednesday from MusicWeb
http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/May02/1aMay02-1.htm
and whilst you are there look at the Chinese songs - a disc I found fascinating.
......................................................................
Len Mullenger
Founder MusicWeb
The Internet CD review site
www.musicweb.uk.net www.FilmMusic.uk.net
www.TheClassicalSite.com
Ray Hall
news:dd2e2dd9.0204...@posting.google.com...
| Olivier MESSIAEN (1908-92)
| Complete organ works
| Jennifer Bate
| Recorded in Beauvais Cathedral 1980-82 and Eglise du Saint-Trinité, Paris,
May 1987
| REGIS RRC1086, 1087, 2051, 2052 (available separately or as a 6-disc boxed
set)
|
| Olivier Latry
| Recorded in the Cathedral of Notre-Dame de Paris, July 2000
| DEUTSCHE GRAMMOPHON 471 480-2 (six discs)
|
|
| One set is more than twice the price of the other so which is it to be?
|
| Find out on Wednesday from MusicWeb
| http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2002/May02/1aMay02-1.htm
Tell me it is the cheapest one !!!
OK, I'll read it then.
| and whilst you are there look at the Chinese songs - a disc I found
fascinating.
Ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong yiddle I pooh
Ying tong - yiddle i POOOH - yiddle i POOOOOOOOOH !!
Regards,
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Adrian Hunter
I have to be careful what I say as I don't know all of Bate's set, though
have a range from early to late, but at the end of the day, I think the
prize must go to her. Latry does benefit from great sound over Bate's at
times cavernous acoustic (not too bad in La Nativite though, and as the
review points out, the Livre du Saint Sacrement was recorded in La Trinite),
but too often for me at key points, Latry is self-indulgent. The prolonged
ending of Dieu parmi-nous is completely ridiculous, and yet other places in
the cycle are snatched away before we have a chance to savour them! The
Notre-Dame organ is an amazing instrument but it sometimes suffers from a
brashness that doesn't work.
To me in the end Bate is more musically in command and is my choice at any
price. The price difference only means that, for someone who can't afford to
hear both, Latry is further out of the running.
Adrian
"Len at MusicWeb" <l...@musicweb.uk.net> wrote in message
news:dd2e2dd9.0204...@posting.google.com...
John Gavin
if anyone feels strongly (one way or the other) about the later organ
works. L'Ascension and La Nativite are works I've long appreciated, but
the Meditations sur le Mystere and the Livre du Saint Sacrement have
never really clicked for me. Any insights?
Adrian Hunter
an esoteric language than just "feeling" it. Perversely, the communicable
language seems almost a barrier to comprehension, but after a while it
exerts a curious fascination, to me at least.
I still think I prefer the earlier works you mention, but I have been
surprised as I enjoy more and more over repeated listenings, the works from
Messe de la Pentecote onwards. Latry actually does a very persuasive job of
that one.
So stick with it, I guess!
Adrian
"John Gavin" <jg...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:25678-3C...@storefull-2272.public.lawson.webtv.net...
John Gavin
I know exactly what you mean by feeling as opposed to understanding.
The answer for me I think is just more exposure to the later works - to
allow it to sink in. This worked regarding much of Sorabji's music. I
simply found that after a period of exposure, suddently I had acquired a
taste for his musical language.
Sonarrat Citalis
> Thanks Adrian:
Messiaen can be an acquired taste. I found it a lot easier to step backwards
from Boulez to Messiaen than to leap from Scriabin to Messiaen, but Messiaen
really is still cutting edge. I'm hard pressed to find contemporary piano works
that don't remind me of Messiaen's chordal style.
--
-Sonarrat Citalis.
Signature at http://sonarrat.stormloader.com/sonarratsig.html
My inbox is protected against all forms of bulk mail and spam.
When I play Rachmaninoff on a 1919 piano, does that qualify as a historical
performance?
John Gavin
Nous" at a very young age, and learned to love it quickly. Other
relatively early Messiaen became favorites soon after (Vingt Regards,
L'Ascension, Tarangalila).
Messiaen's later style (1960s-1970s) sounds radically different however
- much more avant-garde. It's this period that I want to explore more
deeply.
John Gavin
Jon Bell
Adrian Hunter <adhu...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>To me in the end Bate is more musically in command and is my choice at any
>price. The price difference only means that, for someone who can't afford to
>hear both, Latry is further out of the running.
How does Bate compare to Gillian Weir on Collins, which I got cheaply at
Berkshire last year? Bate's set is cheap enough that I'd consider getting
it, too, if it's significantly different from Weir's. (I also have
Messiaen's own set from the 1950s.)
--
Jon Bell <jtbe...@presby.edu> Presbyterian College
Dept. of Physics and Computer Science Clinton, South Carolina USA
SanV
wrote:
I got the Weir set from Berkshire too, bit I have been a bit
dissapointed with it. Not that her playing is bad, but, to me, she
doesn't capture Messiaen's spirit very well. I like what I heard of
Bates' set much more. My favorite Messiaen organ disc is Trotter's
Messe de la Pentacote on Decca, but this seems to be out of print.
Allen & Linda Tyler
SanV wrote:
How do Weir, Bate, etc. compare to Ericsson? He is the only organist I have heard
live in Messiaen's big music.
Allen Tyler
Adrian Hunter
and distorted chant themes might all be interpreted as a kind of modern
translation of chant. It took me long time to think anything much of chant
at all, but it occurs to me it requires not so much to understand as to
feel.
I don't even know if I'm making sense, but as I listened to Messe de la
Pentecote again, some of that seemed to apply.
Adrian
"John Gavin" <jg...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3773-3CC...@storefull-2278.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Philip Peters
And is anybody familiar with the complete set by Willem Tanke?
How would you rate Messiaen's own recordings?
Philip
>
>
>
SanV
<phi...@p-peters.demon.nl> wrote:
>And is anybody familiar with the complete set by Willem Tanke?
>How would you rate Messiaen's own recordings?
>
>Philip
>
Of course, Messiaen's own recordings have a unique authority, but the
EMI set is spoiled for me by the fact that the organ is badly out of
tune.
Allen & Linda Tyler
SanV wrote:
To call it complete is misleading; it doesn't include his later works.
The recording isn't too wonderful, and don't believe that any of it is in
stereo, but nonetheless it should be in any Messiaen fan's collection,
IMNSHO.
Allen Tyler
Adrian Hunter
"Allen & Linda Tyler" <all...@bga.com> wrote in message
news:3CCA0300...@bga.com...
Absolutely! You have to suspend your sense of tuning a little bit (some
places are worse than others) and account for the slightly poor mono sound
(for the age it could have been better) but Messiaens tempi and spirit in
the piece are without equal.
Adrian
Sonarrat Citalis
I don't like the Petites Esquisses d'Oiseaux, dating from the '80s, as much as
the Catalogue, but it is a 15-minute cycle rather than a 150-minute one.
David Enos
way, concerning the recorded sound, the original LPs (on the
Ducretet-Thomson label) sound considerably better than the CD release- a
very pleasant, warm quality, whereas the CDs are thin and constricted in
comparison. The reason this set doesn't include the later works is that
they hadn't been written yet when it was recorded in the 50s.
David
Adrian Hunter <adhu...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:aaeunl$ndm$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
Jon Bell
SanV <sver...@iupui.edu> wrote:
>On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:26:37 GMT, jtbe...@presby.edu (Jon Bell)
>wrote:
>>
>
>dissapointed with it. Not that her playing is bad, but, to me, she
>doesn't capture Messiaen's spirit very well. I like what I heard of
>Bates' set much more.
Well, I was all set to add the Bate set to my cart at Berkshire tonight,
when I found they had just gotten some other stuff I thought I'd better
order first because they're less likely to be re-stocked than the Regis
stuff. Maybe next time...
I ended up ordering a bunch of Danish and Swedish items, mainly on Marco
Polo / dacapo and on Proprius. In fact, there are four organ discs in
there (Torsten Nilsson, Hans Mattison-Hansen, Hinrich Philip Johnsen, and
Otto Olsson), which is a bit unusual. I don't come across much
Scandinavian organ music.